use of flash for outdoor wedding?

[Bushman]

Good day!

i'm doing an outdoor wedding next month. i have a 20d. 580ex flash, 24-70mm L and 70-200mm L lenses. I'm new to flash photography. I've almost always used available light, but I'm thinking i should use the flash for the wedding to help with shadows, etc.

Of course, i'll use avail. light as much as possible, but for the photos taken during the ceremony, it seems flash would be useful.

What do you all think is the best way for me to utilize the flash? Manual mode, etc?

Any advice is appreciated!

thanks!

Mike

[mebailey]

I have shot an out door wedding with flash with very good results. You want to use existing light for your primary source and the flash for fill-in. Set the camera to Av mode and the flash on ETTL with the high sync speed on. I would set the aperature at 8 or so to give a good DOF if you miss the focus alittle. If things move inside set the camera to M mode and bounce the flash whenever possible. Be sure to clear flash usage during the ceremony with the minister and possibly the bride first.

[Phil V]

It really depends on the weather, I'd guess there's not many Saturdays in the UK you'd be forced to use flash, we generally have overcast skies, both a blessing and a curse.
Personally I only use flash when necessary, but that means being proactive about using the natural light, not just 'can't be bothered to use the flash, this'll do'.

[tim]

I don't use a flash for the ceremony, it's distracting, and I don't like flash pics much either. A fast prime might be a good option, but the 70-200 IS lets you use high ISO and gets pics at 1/50th or even a little lower still sharp.

[MDJAK]

I attempted to use fill flash this past weekend with my 85L while outdoors. No matter what I did, I was blowing out the shots.

This frightens me for the upcoming wedding I'll be doing.

mark

[jwwill0]

Mark,
Did you have the High-speed sync on? If not, it was probably resetting to the sync speed. Then again, if you were anywhere close to f/1.2.... gosh, I can't even imagine glass like that... Must feel like someone is looking at you through a telescope

[MDJAK]

I did not have high speed sync on. Is that where I went wrong? I'll have to try it again. I wound up walking around all day with the flash on but not using it.

thanks
mark

[jwwill0]

I don't know what the max sync speed is on the 1Ds. On my 30D it is 1/250. Any flash picture will max out at 1/250s unless I turn on high speed sync. Then I can go higher (at loss of range). It usually takes me a picture or two before I remember.

Check you exif data. Are all the shots that were blown out at the same shutter speed, probably 1/250 or so?

[tim]

Mark, can you post a sample shot, along with exposure compensation and FEC settings, plus usual shutter/aperure/ISO settings?

[mebailey]

I attempted to use fill flash this past weekend with my 85L while outdoors. No matter what I did, I was blowing out the shots.

This frightens me for the upcoming wedding I'll be doing.

mark

Same thing happened to me. I lost a bunch of formal wedding portrait shots. It was bright outside and I did not have high speed sync set so my SS was limited to 1/200 which was too slow for conditions. However, the 5D went happily along and shot all the pics (I thought it would not fire if conditions were that out of whack). Fortunately all the ones I shot at f8 (with the 85L) came out wonderfully. I learned that I need to tick that high speed syc for fill-in outside and check the preview screen on the back of the camera more often!:oops:

[tim]

Regular histogram review is essential. It's easy to bump things and change the settings if you're not careful.

[Arnie1]

Mike try this link.

http://www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html

Its an excellent resource for use of subtle flash techniques.

I now tend to agree with Tim that Manual exposure is the way to go.

Simon

[jamiewexler]

I agree with Tim - check the histogram religiously!

And that's why I shoot in P mode when using fill flash outdoors. I shoot a lot of AV when not using the flash indoors. Leave the camera on AV outdoors, however, and turn your flash on, and your SS will be reduced to the max sync speed - regardless of aperture.

P mode adjusts for the Ap and SS, and allows me to focus on composition and timing.

HSS is an OK solution, but it really reduces your flash output making it useless beyond a few feet.

[tim]

Jamie, P mode keeps your shutter below 1/250th? Your apertures must be tiny! How do you control DOF?

[jamiewexler]

Yep, that's exactly why I use it. If it's that bright outside I usually don't worry about limiting my DOF. Instead I focus on composition and lighting - making sure that I'm getting the right balance of fill and ambient. In the rare instance that I want to limit my DOF, and the subject is w/in 5 or so feet of me, I'll switch to AV w/HSS. Once I move to the shade, I can usually get 1/250 using a decently large aperture in AV mode...

For the OP, I think that P mode with an eye on the histo is the best way to get decent shots as he's learning to use outdoor fill.

[mebailey]

Mike try this link.

http://www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html

Its an excellent resource for use of subtle flash techniques.

I now tend to agree with Tim that Manual exposure is the way to go.

Simon

Arnie
Thanks, that is an excellent resource.

[CHPhoto]

So Jamie or Tim, do you switch off the HSS to normal flash when you are shooting in P mode in sunny locations? And how far away is the 580 EX no longer useful in providing fill flash, say with the 70-200L IS lens?

[tim]

When it's sunny I do my best to keep the flash below 1/250th, because you need all the power you can get. Use a polarizer and F32 if you have to. Use hss if there's no other choice or you need narrow DOF.

[jamiewexler]

So Jamie or Tim, do you switch off the HSS to normal flash when you are shooting in P mode in sunny locations? And how far away is the 580 EX no longer useful in providing fill flash, say with the 70-200L IS lens?

Depends. For the ceremony I usually shoot in "P" without HSS. In P mode the camera will stick with 1/250 and adjust the aperture to the light (just make sure your sensor's clean!) Depending on the time of day (and strength of shadows I'm trying to overcome), I'll bump the FEC up and down. For portraits where I want to limit the DOF, and providing I'm close enough to my subject(s), I'll use HSS. I don't use it very often, though. The 580ex will provide fill flash at a surprising distance during the day.

[Wilt]

Tim, to answer the point you raised...If ISO100, in the sun exposure (Sunny 16 rule) gives 1/100 @ f/16. With a ND filter, you easily adjust that to 1/100 f/11. Shutter speed up to 1/200, now you're at f/8. Set the flash for FEC = -1 and you have good fill for the dark shadows in the eye sockets, etc.
As for shutter speed, don't forget the Custom Fn 3 (20D) for flash shutter speed.

[MDJAK]

As they say, a little knowledge can be dangerous.

Tim, sorry I never posted my blown out shots. I realized that I just had too much light going on without using hss. Now that I've chosen manual, hss, and am paying attention to the camera's meter (which I have a hard time getting used to on the side of the viewfinder; wish it was on the bottom) I'm doing much better.

As far as my opening salvo herein, I didn't realize that hss severly limits the distance of the flash.

Got my first wedding today. But that's a whole other post.

mark

[tim]

Wilt, my impression is the sunny 16 rule is a rule of thumb for film shooters, where there's more latitude to mess up the exposure. I prefer to use a meter.

[Wilt]

Tim, my reference to Sunny 16 was only for the purpose of the hypothetical shooting outdoors and trying to get the f/stop larger for better DOF control. I think my prior post showed that you *could* readily get to f/6.3 or f/8 in direct sun, based upon the fact that Sunny 16 rule uses the ISO value, and ISO is ISO whether for film or for digital imaging!

[tim]

(note to self) must not post while hung over ;)

[Wilt]

Tim, posting while hung over is not nearly as risky as posting while under the influence!

BTW, my wife and I found South Island to be exquisitely beautiful on our drive along the Tasman coast in April. And the many stars so easily seen at night! Glorious land of yours!

[tim]

Glad you enjoyed the trip Wilt, the South Island is beautiful :)

[SunTsu]

I attempted to use fill flash this past weekend with my 85L while outdoors. No matter what I did, I was blowing out the shots.

This frightens me for the upcoming wedding I'll be doing.

mark

I know this is an old thread, but would you mind sharing some of the shots you took with flash? Did you end up not using the flash for the second wedding?

[tim]

I know this is an old thread, but would you mind sharing some of the shots you took with flash? Did you end up not using the flash for the second wedding?

So... you'd like to be taught exposure so you can shoot a wedding?

[Bobster]

surely with all that kit, no training is needed? ;)

[SunTsu]

surely with all that kit, no training is needed? ;)

I know we're close to St Patrick's day, but green can sometimes be an ugly colour. ;)

[SunTsu]

So... you'd like to be taught exposure so you can shoot a wedding?
Huh? I'm not sure if you're being serious or not or if you're just having a bad day.