5D - Infrared

[Hot Opal]

Is it possible to take a genuine Infrared shot with a 5D?
If not:-
How can I get close to that result?

[ssim]

There shouldn't be any reason why you can't do this with the 5D and a r72 type filter. I had some moderate success with this on my 20D before I had my 10D converted to permanent IR.

You have to keep in mind that you are going to have very long exposures and you really can't see anything through the viewfinder as the filter is almost black. Prefocus and then putting the filter on was my best success and I had exposure in the 20-30 second range. You still have to PP alot and there are many actions out there that will assist you in this.

[Hot Opal]

Thanks for the reply Ssim,
Is there any way to determine the exposure time?
Is it trial & error or will the camera do it automatically?
Can I kick up the ISO to reduce the exposure time?
If I have long exposure times on vegetation I will have limited opportunities due to the wind.

[JohnnyBlood]

Take a photograph of the front end of an infrared remote control and see if there's a red dot in the middle. The more pronounced and defined the red is in your photograph, the better your camera will take IR images. That said, I don't anticipate that you will be able to take IR photographs any better than the Canon 20D. There is a filter inside that makes it difficult to take easy IR photographs. A modification will likely be necessary.

[Hot Opal]

Thanks Johnny,
I tried that & had no luck.
So I assume I can't take true infrared shots with a 5D.
It looks like the R72 filter as suggested by ssim is the best solution but I can only expect moderate success!!!!!
It looks like it may be a waste of time & money (I would have to purchase a filter).

[JohnnyBlood]

I think you should have seen something. I know when I tested my 20D on an infrared remote control I could see a small bit of light there. You might try again.

[Tdragone]

In a 'normal' dslr the glass plate in front of the sensor blocks most of the IR light from hitting the sensor. This means you have to use the infamous R72 filter to block all light except IR (Which is why it looks almost black) and keep the shutter open for many seconds to let enough IR wavelength light in to get a good exposure. The problem with this is with a 10+ sec exposure; and wind will move branches/trees and make landscapes with foreground objects fuzzy.

For excellent IR shots; search for Duder; a member here who takes great pictures. His camera had the glass in front of the sensor swapped out for a piece that will transmit IR; so normal shutter speeds and no filters can be used. This means no tripods and no special filters and no long shutter speeds; but also an IR only camera. Not something I think you want for your 5D at their current prices :)

(Some people buy a used 300D for this purpose though)

[Hot Opal]

Thanks Tdragone,
Maybe my best option is to comvert my D60 to an "Infrared only" body.
Where can I have that done?
Are some people better at the conversion than others (ie: is it a specialised process)?
Or is it a basic procedure?

[JohnnyBlood]

http://www.irdigital.net/
http://www.lifepixel.com/
http://burren.cx/photo/ir_conversions.html
http://www.maxmax.com/

[Hot Opal]

Thanks Johnny,
I am going to convert my D60 however you have made my decision more puzzling.
Looking at the websites you have suggested I note that David Burren offers 4 options!!!!!

87C This dark filter only lets in IR light, producing strong monochromatic images.
R72 This dark red glass lets in a very broad spectrum of IR light, and even a bit of visible red. As a result the cameras end up producing false-colour images which some people prefer over B&W.
87 This dark filter lets in a broader range of IR wavelengths than an 87C, but on some cameras does produce slight false colours due to interactions with the sensor's colour filters.
CLR This clear glass provides excellent transmission of IR, visible, and UV light. If you want to use a variety of external filters on your camera then this is the choice for you. This is not window glass or similar, it's a special filter designed for maximum transmission.

WHICH OPTION DO I CHOOSE?

[jwkramer]

Thanks Johnny,
I am going to convert my D60 however you have made my decision more puzzling.
Looking at the websites you have suggested I note that David Burren offers 4 options!!!!!

87C This dark filter only lets in IR light, producing strong monochromatic images.
R72 This dark red glass lets in a very broad spectrum of IR light, and even a bit of visible red. As a result the cameras end up producing false-colour images which some people prefer over B&W.
87 This dark filter lets in a broader range of IR wavelengths than an 87C, but on some cameras does produce slight false colours due to interactions with the sensor's colour filters.
CLR This clear glass provides excellent transmission of IR, visible, and UV light. If you want to use a variety of external filters on your camera then this is the choice for you. This is not window glass or similar, it's a special filter designed for maximum transmission.

WHICH OPTION DO I CHOOSE?

The R72 is the most common option.

[R_Metzel]

You can always do IR conversion in Photoshop. The results are not as good as a converted camera but it works fine for me. Most people that have seen my pictures(family,friends...)have never seen an IR photo. So they thinks it great.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Hot Opal..

I'd go with R72 to give you the option of dealing with IR's odd colors as well traditional IR B&W.

I have a converted D60 myself,. and tend to keep the Color info produced as I love the effect.

Here's a few examples;

Monochrome conversion from IR converted D60 using r72 (http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=y9aw8i&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1)

Monochrome conversion from IR converted D60 using r72 (http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=y9awat&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1)

Color info retained and tweeked from IR converted D60 using r72 (http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=yacyz6&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1)

Color info retained and tweeked from IR converted D60 using r72 (http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=ya5c1d&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1)

Depending on your white balance settings,. you can achieve a fairly neutral out of camera image (nearly B&W.. sort of cool sepia) so all that red tone illustrated in Burris' site is not there.

For example,. here's an "unretouched" not quite B7W but not tweeked color yet image straight out of camera.

http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=yczxwm&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

[Longwatcher]

Thanks Johnny,
I am going to convert my D60 however you have made my decision more puzzling.
Looking at the websites you have suggested I note that David Burren offers 4 options!!!!!

87C This dark filter only lets in IR light, producing strong monochromatic images.
R72 This dark red glass lets in a very broad spectrum of IR light, and even a bit of visible red. As a result the cameras end up producing false-colour images which some people prefer over B&W.
87 This dark filter lets in a broader range of IR wavelengths than an 87C, but on some cameras does produce slight false colours due to interactions with the sensor's colour filters.
CLR This clear glass provides excellent transmission of IR, visible, and UV light. If you want to use a variety of external filters on your camera then this is the choice for you. This is not window glass or similar, it's a special filter designed for maximum transmission.

WHICH OPTION DO I CHOOSE?

If I understand the fullness of you question correctly.
The Clear option will require that some form of IR blocking filter will have to be placed to take normal RGB images and an IR-Pass filter (such as R72) to take IR photos, but at least you will be able to shoot both. The other options will not let you take regular photos just IR photos.

Also a note that when people think of IR they usually think of thermal IR as much as Near IR. The Canon DLSR sensors does not have the capability of working in the thermal region of IR and only works in the visible and Near IR region of the spectrum.

And without modifications the D60 can not do any form of IR, I don't know if anyone has tried out a 5D yet with a Hoya R72. The 10D/300D works fairly well, The 20D/350XT slightly better, and my 1DsMkII very well. My 10D would not pick up the IR remotes as the one I tried apparently operated above the part of the spectrum that the sensor could detect, but the 10D with a Hoya R72 can do true IR photography in the Near-IR region despite the fact it did not detect either of the two remotes I tried it against. Some remotes work closer to visible spectrum and those are probably detectable. The short form is using a remote will confirm you can do IR, but will NOT CONFIRM that you can NOT do IR. Only a IR-Pass filter and a range of exposures can do that.

finally by experience, I have shot people with the Hoya R72 filter at 4 seconds that turned out fairly well, usually required higher ISO (like 400 or 800). And somewhere there is a list of bad IR lenses (generally the good lenses are bad IR lenses on DSLRs).

Just my experience,

[CyberDyneSystems]

FYI.. the downside to the "clear filter" option is you will still not be able to frame your shots unless you unscrew the IR filter you will need to add to the front of yur lenses.

For this reason the "complete" IR conversion is a better choice if you can justify the dedicated IR camera. Using it becomes identical to using a normal SLR as the filter is never in the optical path of your viewfinder.

[Black Ricco]

Nik filters, a plug-in for Photoshop, will let you achieve the effect after the fact.

http://www.niksoftware.com/colorefexpro/usa/entry.php?info=colorefexpro/samples//ircolor.shtml

http://www.niksoftware.com/colorefexpro/usa/entry.php?info=colorefexpro/samples//irbw.shtml

[jwkramer]

Nik filters, a plug-in for Photoshop, will let you achieve the effect after the fact.

http://www.niksoftware.com/colorefexpro/usa/entry.php?info=colorefexpro/samples//ircolor.shtml

http://www.niksoftware.com/colorefexpro/usa/entry.php?info=colorefexpro/samples//irbw.shtml

I don't think that this is quite as good as the real thing... (I tried them)

[Black Ricco]

I wouldn't imagine they would be as good as the real thing. I've never done any digital IR. Does a modified digital camera give the same results as shooting IR film?

[jwkramer]

I've never shot IR film myself. I've seen some IR film stuff posted here and there, and personally I think that the digital stuff actually looks better. It's probably due to the fact that the RAW files can be post processed so much that the results can really be tweaked to maximize the desired effect. With the advent of digital IR the interest in IR photography has started to rise again. If you have a modified IR camera, it's much easier to shoot with as well. As an avid B&W guy, I really love the stunning results you can get shooting digital IR and then converting them to B&W in PP. I have seen some really awesome examples out there.

[Hot Opal]

Thanks everyone for your help,
The shots from Cyber are what I'm looking for.
Particularly the colour in shot #3.

[jwkramer]

Thanks everyone for your help,
The shots from Cyber are what I'm looking for.
Particularly the colour in shot #3.

just bear in mind that they will *not* come out of the camera (even a modified one) this way. It takes some Photoshop manipulation (it's not that hard) to get them to look that way. There are some great tutorials out there on how to do the tweaks, and even a couple of custom actions for PS already done by a few folks.

-Jim

[Hot Opal]

Thanks Jim,
Any ideas where I can find the Photoshop actions?

[jwkramer]

Thanks Jim,
Any ideas where I can find the Photoshop actions?

I think I have one saved on my laptop... I haven't tested it, but I can e-mail it to you if you like. Just drop me an e-mail. My e-mail address is on my website (see my signature).