Tips for newbee motorsport shooter

[tommykjensen]

Ok I got the oportunity to get media pass for a danish race called "Copenhagen Historic Grand Prix" (http://www.chgp.dk/english)

2 years ago I went to see this race for the first time took a lot of photos from outside the fences.

This year I took a chance and send the race organiser an email asking if I could to shoot from inside the fences like the press do. I just got of the phone with them and to my surprise they said yes I could get a media pass giving me full access if I wanted. They have 3 or 4 other photographers that will be shooting too.

I have read Kenny's thread about best use of location and will try to apply that to the track in Copenhagen.

The race is not until august.

Any tips for a newbee on the track?

It would be great if You would take a look at my gallery from 2004 http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/ee/list.php?exhibition=8 and select one or more photos and comment those both good and bad so I can try to do better this time.

You can see what equiment I have through the link in my signature. A 100-400 IS lens is on order (before I knew I got this oprtunity) and I will hopefully have it before the race.

[tommykjensen]

Great tips. Thanks.

[GSH]

This shot Click!! (http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/ee/photo.php?photo=1046&exhibition=8&u=328|8|...)
Is the sort of thing i'd be going for given the subject matter. Ignore the fact that it's a bit on the soft side, it's the composition that works for me here.

What i would say is get down a little lower, crouch if necessary and watch the backgrounds. If you'd moved a couple of metres to your left on this shot you'd have a clean view up that straight and more scope to get the chasing cars in the background...Watch out for cones too.

Stick with centre-point focus for now, but read KennyG's tutorial on off-centre points and give it a try. Shoot in shutter priority, use 1/400th or 1/320th to start with for head-ons and 3/4s.

If you go for pans start at 1/250th and lower your speed as you get the hang of it.

Have a look at some of the galleries and posted shots of the regulars in here. Most of us leave the EXIF intact so you should get some ideas.

Good luck with the shoot :)

[tommykjensen]

The suggested shutter speeds is this regardless of lens choice? I think I would be using my 70-200 f/2.8 most of the time but hopefully I will have a 100-400 IS also at that time.

So far I have mainly shot in Av mode. I think the shots from 2004 was shot in 300D's sportsmode.

[GSH]

The suggested shutter speeds is this regardless of lens choice? I think I would be using my 70-200 f/2.8 most of the time but hopefully I will have a 100-400 IS also at that time.

So far I have mainly shot in Av mode. I think the shots from 2004 was shot in 300D's sportsmode.


Yep, those shutter speeds will give you a good balance of sharpness and "wheel blur". Cars with frozen wheels look awful, you might as well go and shoot in a car-park ;)

I use the 100-400 quite a lot and even though it's not particularly heavy i almost always use a monopod with it.

[vwpilot]

Many of Trackday's points are good ones except number three.

People DO like a sense of motion. Many will not know why they think one photo is better than another, but they will virtually ALWAYS choose the photo with motion in it before a frozen shot.

Shutter speeds in the 1/250 and down will show sufficient wheel movement. If shooting directly on where you will not see the wheels moving, user a wider aperture to set the subject off from the background and dont worry about how fast the shutter is as it will not freeze anything that should be moving.

[tommykjensen]

Trackday.Net, GSH, vwpilot thanks for the tips.

[Picturesports]

For a 20D with a 100-400 I'd add ....

1. Centre point focus
2. AI Servo mode
3. 200 ISO tends to work best at all ranges with 1/320, but of course we might be blessed with a sunny day in Europe this summer :cool:
4. Pick up the car early - half press the shutter and follow the car to the shooting point.
5. Check the little focus distance button on the lens it is easy to change without noticing
6. 1/3 of a stop up tends to help the colours
7. Personal taste - try and get to the same eye level as the driver (or there abouts)

[andrewc]

My advice is preparation - get plenty of practise in before the important shots have to be taken.

[tommykjensen]

Ok I have tried to put in some shooting points on the map of the track.

Realising I am the only one here that know the track does these points look ok?

The sun approx position is indicated in the border. So around 12:00 points E, F, G, H and possibly I would be the spots I need to be. And around 15:00 the points G, H, I, J and possibly A would be the good spots.


82743

[TCorzett]

3. Use high shutter speeds to get sharper images. 90% of the general public appreciate a sharp image. The other 10% are photographers. The only other people that care about the "sense of motion" are photographers.
I will agree that people appreciate a sharp image, so that should be something that you strive for... but to say that only photographers care about the "sense of motion" is incorrect. I have had shots that I, and other photographers, would hate because of TOO MUCH motion... and "the general public" absolutely loved (and purchased, if that's what matters) them.

I agree that most people are less interested in a blurry photo (subject wise) with motion, than they are with a static shot with a sharp subject... If the only option is a blurry shot of a car with motion, or a static sharp one... then the sharp one will sell, but if you have a sharp subject AND motion they will take that image hands-down. To get those shots you will have a lower % success race... so if you're planning on having every shot you take as a "sellable image" it's not for you... but the results are FAR more dramatic (and not just to photographers).

Other tips: Digital is your friend... Review your shots often (don't obsess though) and see what is working and what isn't. If the shots aren't sharp enough for you, up the shutter speed a 'click'. If you're shots are too static, drop the speeds... etc. Review the histograms for exposures. When you find something that works check-out the EXIF. Take notes on different shooting locations, vehicle speeds, focal lengths, shutter speeds, etc... eventually you'll have the experience to know what works, but at first it's great to have all the data to crunch. Check-out other people's work and find what you like and dislike about it... take notes... check the EXIF (some photographers, like myself, leave the EXIF intact when they post)... and put it all together into your own style. Do your homework before going to a new track... look at the track map(s) and where the sun rises and sets... look at other's images from previous events... etc.

And the biggest thing... PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

-Todd...

[KennyG]

It isn't about blur when you use slower shutter speeds, it is about realism. You can capture an F1 car, razor sharp at full tilt using nothing faster than 1/400, so please don't say people prefer the frozen look when they don't have to. If you can't take razor sharp images at 1/400 or 1/320 or at 1/150 pans, then you have a problem with your technique.

Race drivers do not like frozen pictures, at least the Brits don't. They are as aware of what the picture should look like as the photographer is that is taking it.

Please don't give bad advice to someone doing it for the first time, particularly on a European circuit where bends go in more than one dirtection and the straights are long.

[Dave_G]

I like motion blur.

HIgh shutter speed = stationary looking cars = not what I want to see, but I take photos for me 99.9% of the time and other people .1% of the time...

Just my 2p worth.

[TCorzett]

My customers purchase the sharp, frozen look even when presented with images that convey this sense of motion
Do you have an example of the shots that were to be selected from? If you had the same shot (take a full-side shot) with motion, or without... I doubt that the static one would win-out. Now, if you're comparing a static front-3/4 shot to a motion side shot it's apples and oranges... and more the composition of the shot, rather than purely motion, that is selling the shot. Take the same front-3/4 shot... one shot at 1/1000th and another at 1/320th... and (properly done) the 1/320th shot would sell more (from my experience, and sales).

It's a matter of freezing a moment in time.
I have always thought of photography as "capturing" a moment in time, not necessarily "freezing" it. Often times there is more to a moment than purely the subject... especially in motorsports. IMO, conveying the motion of the subject is just as important as composition, background, etc.

My advice is based on statistical information on items that sold, not on a subjective point of view. I shoot to sell. Not to impress.
Knowing your clients is a VERY important thing... so to say that your clients do not like "frozen" images would be wrong, but I know if I shot frozen images that my clients would go elsewhere... and not a single one of them is a photographer. Panning shots, regardless of what the photographer likes, is something that some clients want/need.

I throw the ball back in your court and ask to please don't say people prefer the blur look when they don't.
To say that "people do not prefer the blur look" is just as bad advice as I see is. IMO, if a motorsports photographer does not have the ability (I didn't say that every shot should be in-motion) then you're missing one of the key skills demanded by many clients (and this is from my experience, not just a subjective point of view).

-Todd...

[John Thawley]

To each his own I guess. I prefer a sharp, frozen picture. Most people that purchase posters from me of their vehicle navigating the track pay for sharp, frozen, pictures where the subject is well isolated. This is why Jim and I are on opposite sides of the fence on this issue. I base my taste on by what people are willing to buy when presented with both show shutter and high shutter style images. My preference is what profits the most based on what I've sold.

No... you are at opposite sides of the fence with everyone else on this issue. Let's call a spade a spade.

Gee, slow shutter AND sharp:

http://gallery.johnthawley.com/albums/autoextremist/ace.jpg

[John Thawley]

I am more interested in what people buy.

I'm more interested in what they'll pay for quality work. Therein lies the difference, Mike. Do what you like with your own reputation. But to suggest everyone should lower their standards just to make sure they pedal a couple of 8x10 glossies trackside is a bit disengenuous.

The original poster asked for tips to improve his pictures. You assumed he wants to hang out trackside sell prints for a couple of bucks.

You should keep in mind some people prefer to RAISE the bar of thier art and their chosen craft and get paid (well) for it too.

[John Thawley]

OK, I'll bite. I'll play your game. This is what I can do at full res. Same offer, John. Anytime you want to come shoot with me to see who sells more.


Like I said, Mike... you assume.

Thanks for the invitation, Mike, but I don't "come shoot" to see what I sell. LOL - People pay me to come shoot.

So, I'll be at Watkins Glen all weekend, come on out do your thing.

http://gallery.johnthawley.com/albums/albup59/act.jpg

[TCorzett]

Here's an example. This one sold as a poster at 1/800th:

http://www.trackday.net/Post/Poster/Images/_ML_7565.JPG

Here was the other choice at 1/200th. The one that didn't get printed:

http://www.trackday.net/Post/Poster/Images/_ML_7427.JPG
I would consider these apples and oranges, and not a really good example of the "lack of motion" or the "presence of motion" as the deciding factor for selling the image or not. Let me see if I can find an example.

I am well aware of who my client is and what they purchase. They purchase "frozen" images. The panning shot is something purchased when they have their fill of frozen shots.
Yes, YOU know YOUR clients. But to say that ALL clients like frozen images is just plain wrong. So, if you're goal is to sell images... then you'll need to take motion images as well. When you shoot the frozen ones and when you shoot the motion ones depends on your clients... but you need to have those skills in your bag. Therefore, as this is a "Tips for newbee motorsport shooter" thread... saying that NOT shooting motion shots is a bad tip... regardless of what YOU sell.

I'm curious to see if two photogs of conflicting shutter speed styles can out sell the other. As I've extended to a lot of photogs out there, come shoot with me one of these days to test my theory.
The main reason that I do NOT shoot trackday events is the "cookie-cutter" nature of what the clients want. I still believe that much of what a client wants has to do with what the photographer is selling... and how the photographer sells it. At a trackday... the frozen shots may win out (and partly due to the high volumes available to sell). At a professional event selling to advertisers or magazines... I would put my money on the slower shutter speeds. Again, all about the clients. I don't think many people here are saying that YOU should shoot with slower shutter speeds (we've had that discussion time and time again, so you know how I feel on the subject)... but rather talking of general tips for motorsports photographers. Because it's general, not shooting slower shutter speed shots is a bad tip.

-Todd...

[DWimages]

Trackday you have a specific target audience that sees your work everytime they come out to a trackday.In the real world of motorsports photography people that buy images for ads and programs and so on want sharp and in motion this is what sells period.If you look at Todd's and John Thawley's work they are coming from an arena where sharp and motion sells, if you try to sell a client a photo that is parked in a corner you will nine times out of ten be told no that is not what i wanted. In motorsports racing the photo with the most dynamics sells no matter what.The photos that you sell in your market work for you but in our market it is just another image that is parked or looks like you are just starting out and do not have enough time in to get the photo that is in motion so you shoot it at a higher shutter speed. Your images would work well in shooting Motocross because that is what the magazine likes. Here are two examples of speed, one is head on and this is where a higher shutter speed is applicable and the other image is a pan shot where the slower the better which gives the image a better dynamic range. What works for you might not work for everybody.For the photographer starting out I recommend that he or she starts at a higher shutter speed and work there way down to the slowest shutter speed ther equiptment allows and experiment from there. Above all else practice,practice,practice this is what makes you a better photographer.:cool:

Mike Doran
D&W Images
www.dandwimages.com

[TCorzett]

Let me dig for an example where it's the same angle but a different shutter speed that sold. On the subject of examples, I'm curious to see what you have for an example.
I dug through my archives... but other than some head-on shots where I was going for a narrow DOF (and which the wheels were not visible) I did not have a single shot that was over 1/700th of a second from the last three years (even when I did, it was only a handfull and they were all head-on or going-away). At my next even I'll take a few shots at higher shutter speeds for a direct comparison.

-Todd...

[DWimages]

The two shots posted above are 250th for Larry Pegram and 640th. of a sec. for Jake Zemke. Placement on the track determines what shutter speed you are using at any given time.

Mike Doran
D&W Images
www.dandwimages.com

[tommykjensen]

Thanks all for contributing I appreciate that. I just didn't expect this to be a heated discussion about low vs high shutter speeds :lol: But intresting thoughts definately.

My view on that is I prefer the shot with the lower shutter speeds where the car is sharp and the surroundings show motion. So that is what I will strive after.

This one I shot in 2004 at this race is just a photo of a parked car. (shutter 1/2000)

http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/photo.php?n=chgp03.jpg

But this one even though it is not sharp enough is more to my own liking because it shows motion. (shutter 1/200)


http://photo.klein-jensen.dk/photo.php?n=chgp16.jpg



Since this is the first time someone expect to receive photos from me I will most likely compromise and go maybe 50 / 50 on high vs low shutterspeeds.

[cdifoto]

I gotta agree with the others. I was shooting the same as you do, Trackday. I was relying on print sales at the track, and I sold a lot more where there was motion than without. I wasn't being paid well for glossy magazine prints but I gave the customers what they wanted. And they wanted to look like they were going fast. This is pretty lowbrow racing but they still knew what they wanted to buy.

(Apologies for the varied sizes - they were readily available on photobucket. heh)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/path/2005-09-02_065.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/path/2005-09-02_070.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/path/2005-09-02_073.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/path/img-4255x7.jpg

[vwpilot]

Mike your biggest problem with believing you know what you clients want is that you dont have any real competition to prove you wrong. If you were working consistently right next to someone shooting in the style most of the others here prefer and simply had the images up side by side without your clients knowing who took what photo, I would bet the house the more dramatic images that show motion would sell.

However, we will never know as I dont know any quality photographers that will spend their money and time to come out to your location just to "see what they can sell." Addditionally, you have built up your group of fans and supporters that you have trained into liking what you produce, so I think that the loyalty to you would also outweigh any opportunity to prove you wrong as they are used to what they get from you and are loyal to you...which is good for you.

Again, you also base your "correctness" on the fact that you sell images and have a nice big trailer that will "soon become an RV," no one cares about that and that success means nothing. My little brother could go out to a track and shoot all day long on Program mode and sell images to riders if he was the only one at the track and didnt have any competition to do it.

No one is arguing with your business ability or the fact that you are successful, good for you, I applaud that. However, like has happened on other boards, you shouldnt be giving advice on how to IMPROVE photos based on your limited and very captive audience and how much they buy.

I'll make an offer to you. Unfortunately I cannot give up a summers worth of income to come out and spend time teaching your clients what they are missing out on and trying to build a new client base. So, if you really would like to see a comparison, I'd be happy to do it if you would like to pay me to do so. Doubt that will happen so your invitation is pretty safe as you know no one will truly take you up on it.

But I have a better idea. Since you are sooo convinced that you know what sells and have your finger on the pulse of the buying public, you should have no issue spending the money to come visit one of us and prove your point, as you will obviously make your money back. Settle on a location that is neutral so there will be no loyal client base that will just buy from us because its us, they will simply buy the work they like the most.

I'm sure others will accept that offer. Think of it as an investment in making us all see the light that obviously has you blinded.

And just because it sells does not mean its a great photo, I think we have all sold stuff that is less than stellar for any number of reasons. Dont base "good" or "great" based on sales.

[tommykjensen]

Juhuuuu - I am right here ;-)

Can we get back to the topic please.

Lets keep the discussion about who does business best out of this thread. I am sure all here do business great.


Yesterday I posted a map where I have tried to add shooting points in taking into account where the sun will be. I know nobody here know that track but how does it look? The track is completely flat.

Also what kind of people shots do You all shoot on the track? Any examples just to give me an idea?

[cdifoto]

I usually tried to get closeups from a long way off. Pit crews working, fans cheering, etc. They never knew I took the shot till they saw it on my website. I'd show you what I mean but I'm too lazy to dig out the CD.

[John Thawley]

Juhuuuu - I am right here ;-)

Can we get back to the topic please.

Lets keep the discussion about who does business best out of this thread. I am sure all here do business great.


Yesterday I posted a map where I have tried to add shooting points in taking into account where the sun will be. I know nobody here know that track but how does it look? The track is completely flat.

Also what kind of people shots do You all shoot on the track? Any examples just to give me an idea?

Tommy:

Put the map away. Go to the track, get up early, look at the schedule, look at the track map, then look at the travel of the sun. Plan your day accordingly. Once you get to a corner or set of corners, make the most of them. Really, it's that simple. The job at hand is making the best of the corners you are working and get the most from a session.

JT

[tommykjensen]

Tommy:

Put the map away. Go to the track, get up early, look at the schedule, look at the track map, then look at the travel of the sun. Plan your day accordingly. Once you get to a corner or set of corners, make the most of them. Really, it's that simple. The job at hand is making the best of the corners you are working and get the most from a session.

JT

The track will be setup the night before so I don't have a lot of options checking out the track in advance (it will be on a very busy road so I can't run around on the road without being run over). For now I have to go from memory and the map. And the schedule has not been published yet and will be published shortly before the actual race.

But I have looked through my photos from 2004 and studied the shadows and from that I could approx pinpoint where the sun was at the time when the photo was taken.

[cdifoto]

Jim, I mean no disrespect. I would prefer to pay someone who can teach me something new or someone who can sell me a client list. I am interested in your schedule to see about coming out to events you are shooting to get an idea of your market. I'd like to do my research who I can sell to and set up contracts to at least pay for the trip. My primary interest is building the business. I need to expand my client base to do that. I am well aware of what my captive market wants. As for competition, you are partially correct. None of them come out to the events anymore.

I actually stopped shooting races like I posted above because it just wasn't worth my effort and the gradual destruction of my equipment. 10 dollar prints don't even pay for the wear and tear on my own body, let alone L glass. It was fun but all it gave me was experience. I had to walk away from it.

[vwpilot]

Jim, I mean no disrespect. I would prefer to pay someone who can teach me something new or someone who can sell me a client list. I am interested in your schedule to see about coming out to events you are shooting to get an idea of your market. I'd like to do my research who I can sell to and set up contracts to at least pay for the trip. My primary interest is building the business. I need to expand my client base to do that. I am well aware of what my captive market wants. As for competition, you are partially correct. None of them come out to the events anymore.

Mike,

Again, you go missing the point. You ask us to pay our way to prove you wrong, yet when I give you a good option to prove yourself (since you obviously know what sells everywhere or you wouldnt give the same advice to those all over the globe) you start talking about growing your business and coming up with excuses why you cant.

Jim, I mean no disrespect. I would prefer to pay someone who can teach me something new or someone who can sell me a client list.

Likewise, with all due respect, you have no idea what I or anyone else here could teach you , I'd put money on the fact that many folks here could easily teach you a thing or two, whether you listen or not is a different story. I'm just not paying my own way to teach you something and I dont think anyone else here is either.

As to the competition, if they were indeed there and gave up so easily, I wouldnt have called them competition to begin with.

I guess you will just never get the point Mike. You have had working and well established pros, serious motorsports amateurs and rank beginners on multiple message boards, working in different forms of motorsports photography and working in different parts of the world all telling you the same thing, motion leads to the emotion of the image, yet you dont listen and continue on with your beliefs. Apparently the entire photography world is mislead except for you.

Tommy,

According to your map and sun positions, it looks pretty good. However, as JT was pointing out, there is more to shooting than the map and you really can only get an idea of where to start. Get an actual track map, figure out where the sun is going to be at specific times and then plan to START there. Then when the track is in place, scope it out and see if it holds to your expectations and start to evalute the shooting locations, the sun positions, the backgrounds, the available photo holes and angles they are on and figure out what is going to work.

Also, dont be held to the notion of shooting with the sun at your back. Sometimes shooting backlit or sidelit can give very dramatic and pleasing results. However, there isnt much you can do in the main portion of the day when the sun is almost straight up. LIght will be harsh just about everywhere and you are going to have to just deal with it. Its part of the nature of the business. Such it was with a high noon start to the latest ALMS race at Mid Ohio, harsh and extremely contrasty light. You do your best and it is what it is. You are documenting the event and though we would love to have all our images be under morning or evening light to make every image a portfolio piece, it doesnt normally work that way.

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums/Sportscar/ALMS/2006/04%20Mid%20Ohio/02%20Mid%20Ohio%20Raceday//030.jpg

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums/Sportscar/ALMS/2006/04%20Mid%20Ohio/02%20Mid%20Ohio%20Raceday//044.jpg

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums/Sportscar/ALMS/2006/04%20Mid%20Ohio/02%20Mid%20Ohio%20Raceday//025.jpg

http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums/Sportscar/ALMS/2006/04%20Mid%20Ohio/02%20Mid%20Ohio%20Raceday//020.jpg

Good luck and most importantly, dont fret over it, just go out and enjoy the photography. You can stress out over positioning and technique all day long, but in the end if you go out and have a good time and keep in mind some of the advice, you'll figure out what works for you, what you like and what you want to do with your motorsports photography.

[tommykjensen]

Good luck and most importantly, dont fret over it, just go out and enjoy the photography.

Thats my plan. I don't do this to put food on the table it is purely for pleasure.

[marka123]

Howdy,

The two shots posted above are 250th for Larry Pegram and 640th. of a sec. for Jake Zemke. Placement on the track determines what shutter speed you are using at any given time.

Mike Doran
D&W Images
www.dandwimages.com (http://www.dandwimages.com)

I like both those images very much. But I did have a question... In the Pegram image what's the advantage of a relatively slower shutter speed? Seems like the background is getting blurred due to DOF. The only motion blur I really see is the chain, and that's a pretty small detail (but perhaps an important one?) The motion blur on the wheels is blocked by the rim...

I'm _not_ criticizing here! I'm just trying to learn what makes a good image!

Mark

[DWimages]

Hi Mark;
My main purpose in this image was to make sure the side of the bike was sharp for Leo Vince which is the exhaust system company as they were looking for a new image.The latter part of the day here in Northern California gets some of the best light and I was hoping that this image would really attract the company into using it for there upcoming ads.What it did do was give the company a different avenue for photography instead of relying on one photographer they now have a choice it also gave the rider a new image to use on the side of his race trailer.In regards to just the chain in motion the wheels are also in motion as this was a pan shot or that was what I was hoping to achieve.

Mike Doran
D&W Images
www.dandwimages.com

[TCorzett]

what's the advantage of a relatively slower shutter speed? Seems like the background is getting blurred due to DOF. The only motion blur I really see is the chain, and that's a pretty small detail (but perhaps an important one?) The motion blur on the wheels is blocked by the rim...
In this particular shot the motion of the wheels was blocked by the rim, but just imagine if it wasn’t... I'm sure Mike took several shots of this bike, and others, in a similar position... but if any of them had frozen wheels the impact would be lost. Motion in the chain, brake rotors, wheels, tires (especially ones with treads), etc. is all just a small part of the total puzzle... but if any one piece is missing things just look odd. Just because it's not visible in this one shot, doesn't mean that it wouldn't be visible in other shots (and I'm guessing if someone was trying deliberately to hit the shot with the wheels being hidden they would miss more than they would succeed). I think about the theme of the shot (ie motion of the bike going around the corner) and then get the settings that will allow for that... if in a few of the shots the motion of the wheels is blocked, then maybe I’ll choose another shot to display, but I’m not going to up the shutter speeds (and risk loosing all the motion in the shots) because a few of them didn’t show the wheels. You can also add in subtle details… depending on what you want... like the heat-distortion in the first Zemke shot (which is a dead give-way of a high shutter speed shot), which are muted in the second panning shot because of the shutter speed and panning motion.

As for DOF... when panning, DOF doesn't really do much (at least in the way it would with higher shutter speeds or static subjects). What is in focus/sharp has much more to do with your panning motion than the aperture.

-Todd...

[marka123]

Howdy,

Thanks!

In the autox photos I've done, I originally was always using 1/125 or so shutter speeds to get motion blur on the wheels/background (note that the cars at an autox are going slower than cars/bikes on a track). Recently though, playing with 3/4 front shots of the cars going around corners, I started using higher shutter speeds. I found I was getting more keepers since my pan didn't need to be as good, and I didn't miss the motion blur because the angle of the shots didn't really show things in motion that way anyway (though a sense of motion is there due to body lean, the driver looking around the corner, etc.) Of course with those shots I'm explicitly going for that effect.

This shot is kinda an example of what I mean:

http://www.autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=205&text=&imageid=15393&box=&shownew=

My shutter in that was 1/200, which is actually reasonably quick for slower autox speeds... I don't miss the motion blur because of the action of the car.

Anyway, I'm just rambling... Thanks for the explanation! I find the reasoning behind the shots as interesting as the (great) photos everyone posts here...

Mark

[Bosscat]

My customers purchase the sharp, frozen look even when presented with images that convey this sense of motion that only photographers talk so highly of.

The average person doesn't understand the difference between the two image styles, until its pointed out to them. Usually when its pointed out, they understand the difference and will become swayed to the style which convays motion.

Alll they need to do is be shown the pictures I took and some that Jimmy took in the same corner at Mosport, and I'd bet that almost 100% would prefer Jimmy's pics over mine.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=96758

[gmen]

Also, dont be held to the notion of shooting with the sun at your back. Sometimes shooting backlit or sidelit can give very dramatic and pleasing results.
Tommy... I know next to nothing about shooting motorsport... but I will echo what Jimmy says in his statement about using light to your advantage.

Shooting into the sun or sidelit can be used to dramatic effect... so my little bit of novice motorsport shooting advice would be: "Don't plan your entire shoot so that you always have the sun behind you"

Obviously correct exposure is the key in these 'difficult' lighting situations. The backlit exposure can be a tricky one to judge. I often take an incident reading with a handheld meter to get me on the right tracks.

You're gonna want examples otherwise my waffling is meaningless... not got too many motorsport ones, but...

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/speed008.jpg

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/speed006.jpg

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/speed009.jpg

The other advantage of shooting backlit is that (sometimes) it can help clean up your backgrounds... if there are stands or high buildings, they may become nice dark backdrops and the cars will be highlighted with some peachy rim-lighting.

You're obviously looking to plan your angles carefully to get the best spots... so try to take the backgrounds into account and maybe consider shooting contre jour some of the time.

Then again... the sun may not shine... in fact, if it's anything like the UK in August, it'll probably rain ;)

...and I got through all that without mentioning s*****r s****s :p

Good luck with the shoot. I'm sure it'll go well for you.

---- Gavin

[Dave_G]

...and I got through all that without mentioning s*****r s****s :p



haha, well done on that!

[tommykjensen]

Thanks Gavin.

About the weather. The weather here is usually a little better than in UK ;-) Hmm well maybe not. It has been raining today, the sun is out now and it will probaly rain a little more later. I just hope it won't rain through the weekend because we have carnival in Copenhagen this weekend. It starts tomorrow.

[marka123]

Howdy,

Related to weather...

I like a lot of the action I've seen others get in wet weather shots, but I'm nervous about my gear in the rain... How do you protect your camera from the elements when you're after those rain shots?

Is it just a matter of spending a crapload of money on one of the 1D bodies or can you make a 350D safely work in the rain?

Mark

[GSH]

Howdy,

Related to weather...

I like a lot of the action I've seen others get in wet weather shots, but I'm nervous about my gear in the rain... How do you protect your camera from the elements when you're after those rain shots?

Is it just a matter of spending a crapload of money on one of the 1D bodies or can you make a 350D safely work in the rain?


I've just ordered a couple of these fellas...

http://www.stormjacket.com/

[Dave_G]

Howdy,

Related to weather...

I like a lot of the action I've seen others get in wet weather shots, but I'm nervous about my gear in the rain... How do you protect your camera from the elements when you're after those rain shots?

Is it just a matter of spending a crapload of money on one of the 1D bodies or can you make a 350D safely work in the rain?

Mark


http://www.wildlifewatchingsupplies.co.uk/lens.htm

There's all sorts of stuff there

[tommykjensen]

I've just ordered a couple of these fellas...

http://www.stormjacket.com/

Good tip. Though I do not plan to stay out in the rain I think I will order one or 2 of these.

[gmen]

Thanks Gavin.

About the weather. The weather here is usually a little better than in UK ;-) Hmm well maybe not. It has been raining today, the sun is out now and it will probaly rain a little more later. I just hope it won't rain through the weekend because we have carnival in Copenhagen this weekend. It starts tomorrow.
A pleasure Tommy. I'm always looking for a reason to wheel out my weel-worn paean to into-the-sun shooting ;) I've not aired it for a few weeks, so you've become my latest 'victim' :lol: ...but seriously, glad it was of some use.

Hope the sun comes out for the carnival... carnival's in the rain are just not the same are they?

---- Gavin

[GSH]

Good tip. Though I do not plan to stay out in the rain I think I will order one or 2 of these.


I had a very close call a few weeks back when rain water got into the joystick on the back of my 20D. Fortunately it dried out ok and now works fine, but i'm not taking any more chances :)

[Cadwell]

Howdy,

Related to weather...

I like a lot of the action I've seen others get in wet weather shots, but I'm nervous about my gear in the rain... How do you protect your camera from the elements when you're after those rain shots?

Is it just a matter of spending a crapload of money on one of the 1D bodies or can you make a 350D safely work in the rain?

Mark

You can buy expensive 1 series bodies and weather sealed lenses, you can get fancy rain covers as suggested, you can use the cut off leg of an old pair of waterproof trousers or you can rig something up with plastic bags and rubber bands. They all work as solutions.

[TCorzett]

How do you protect your camera from the elements when you're after those rain shots?
I have a pair (one for my 70-200 and one for my 500) of the AquaTech Sports Shields (http://www.aquatech.com.au/products/sportshields/sportshields.htm (http://www.aquatech.com.au/products/sportshields/sportshields.htm)). They were a bit pricey, but considering there's nearly $12k worth of gear under them at any given time it's not a bad investment. What is nice about them is that they are completely covered (even have a special eye-piece to seal to a neoprene hole, clear window for the LCD, and a sleeve for your hand to operate the camera without exposing it to the weather).

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I've never needed to use them. Being in California it hardly ever rains during motorsports season... and if it does, many of the series (AMA Superbike being the one I've had rain with the most) doesn't run when the tracks (well, the ones I shoot at) are wet. For sprinkles I tend to use use a towel to dry things off from time to time, but if things get a little wetter I always carry a few garbage/ziplock bags with me. If I know it's going to be wet, and they are going to run in the rain, then I'll bring along the AquaTech covers.

The StormJacket looks nice and light... so may be something I add to by bag (replacing the pile of garbage bags)

-Todd...