Adobe RGB/Epson 2200 Question

[scottbergerphoto]

Using my 10D in Adobe RGB color space, I convert in BreezeBrowser, and post process in Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0. I save the Adobe RGB profile to the picture. In Photoshop Elements print preview, I select Adobe RGB(1998 ) as my source and "same as source" for my output. In the Epson printer software I select "No color adjustment". My monitor is calibrated using Adobe Gamma. The resulting pictures are dark, and show pink as green. When I print the same file using the Epson printer setting sRGB and ignore the ICC profile in Photoshop Elements 2.0, the resulting picture is beautiful. It looks exactly like the picture on the monitor. The color is vibrant and true to life.
Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Scott

[Kevin Connery]

When you set the print options to 'same as source', you're passing the raw RGB numbers to the printer. You then want the printer to color manage, using its ColorSync or ICM setups.

When you set the print options to a specific printer profile, you're sending adjusted RGB numbers to the printer. You then want the printer to NOT color manage--that's where No Color Adjustment comes in.

If you set both, you'll have a problem. If you set neither, you'll have a problem.

I personally prefer having Photoshop do the conversion, as there's more immediate control than having the OS/print driver do it, so I tell PS to use the printer/paper/ink profile, and No Color Adjustment in Epson drivers.

[scottbergerphoto]

Kevin Connery wrote:
When you set the print options to 'same as source', you're passing the raw RGB numbers to the printer. You then want the printer to color manage, using its ColorSync or ICM setups.

When you set the print options to a specific printer profile, you're sending adjusted RGB numbers to the printer. You then want the printer to NOT color manage--that's where No Color Adjustment comes in.

If you set both, you'll have a problem. If you set neither, you'll have a problem.

I personally prefer having Photoshop do the conversion, as there's more immediate control than having the OS/print driver do it, so I tell PS to use the printer/paper/ink profile, and No Color Adjustment in Epson drivers.
Thank you for your reply. Could you be more specific in the steps? I think you are saying that in my situation with output in print preview set as "same as source" to set the printer drivers to ICM. Is that correct? What would be the steps to do it in your preferred method?
Thanks,
Scott
Addendum: I tried the first method: Photoshop Elements 2.0 set the source to AdobeRGB(1998 ), I set the output to "same as source" and selected ICM in the printer drivers. The picture looked just like my monitor, very vibrant, but no different then when I used sRGB. Did I do this correctly? If so, why isn't the picture any more colorful then with sRGB? (although it would be difficult to imagine a picture more realistic).

I then tried method 2: I set the output to AdobeRGB(1998 ) and the printer to "no color adjustment", and the result was a green car, not pink. Is this method only for custom printer profile that I make myself with Monaco or GretagMacbeth test targets, or is there a way I can do it with a profile already provided? I would appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Scott

[Kevin Connery]

Essentially, you have to tell the printer itself what to do.
The RGB numbers are arbitrary, and without some translation, they don't describe a color; they're just numbers. The profiles tell the printer and monitor how to show RGB numbers visually.

So...

Method 1:
* In Photoshop's Print With Preview dialog, set the Input source to your current working space (sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998) for Elements, or whatever you're using in PS itself)
* Output source to the PRINTER/PAPER/INK profile, either a custom one or the one from the manufacturer.
* Double-check your media settings match the profile (that is, Premium Luster profile with Premium Luster paper type [they're in different subwindows/dialogs, not all together on either Mac or Windows, unfortunately].
* Set the printer to No Color Adjustment. On Windows that's under Properties (Main> Custom > Advanced); under Mac it's in the Color management set on the Page Setup dialog.
* Print and pray


Method 2 is the same, except that Output is set to "Printer Color Management", and the print driver is set to ICM, or ColorSync, which just changes where the conversion takes place. The results should be the same.

If so, why isn't the picture any more colorful then with sRGB?

Color management isn't supposed to make colors more colorful; it's supposed to get them to match between devices (printers, displays, etc.) Different spaces CAN permit a different range of colors (sRGB not handling some very saturated/deep colors that Adobe RGB will), but if the colors aren't present in the image, there's no reason they should appear in the print. If they did, that'd be a failure of the conversion.

[scottbergerphoto]

Thanks Kevin for the detailed answer. I'm using the method with the Epson 2200 set to ICM, source: Adobe RGB(1998 ) and output: same as source. My images pretty much match my Adobe Gamma calibrated monitor. I'm going to look for a profile for my printer/paper/ink for the other method.
Scott

[scottbergerphoto]

Update: After using the links provided by Kevin Connery, I was able to set up my system for Color Management with the Epson Stylus 2200! There are ICC Profiles for this printer hidden on the Epson CD in the PIM Folder. Here is how I set it up:
1.Copy these ICC files to the c:windows\system32\spool\drivers\color folder on your computer.
2.Go into Control Panel>Printers>Epson 2200>Properties>Color Management>ADD>individually select and add the sp2200 ICC files. Then click OK.
3. Photoshop Elements 2.0>open picture>Print Preview>check- other options>source=Adobe RGB( 1998 ), Output= sp2200____(glossy, semigloss, et.),Perceptual,from pull down menu.
4. Print> select appropriate paper>Advanced-check "no color adjustment" > Print

I just did it and the colors jump off the page.
Thanks Kevin and Vegas Poboy,
Scott