new Ziess 16-80mm f3.5-4.5 for Alpha mount!

[MrChad]

Anyone see the press release for the new Sony Alpha-100 (ah chew, Minolta...) SLR system.

Anyone else drooling over the 16-80mm f3.5-4.5 Ziess zoom lens Sony will have. The msrp lists for $699 makes me wonder what the final price may settle to street one day. Anyone else hope this spurs Canon to do an 16-80mm esk f4 EF-S for the same price?

I have a good buddy that just switched from Minolta gear to Canon, I hope he's not ticked :)

[Tee Why]

Since when does Zeiss make an AF zoom with variable aperature?
I smell a badge engineering job.

[steved110]

It has the Zeiss name but is outsourced, just like a lot of consumer cameras with Leica lenses. Don't think it means much, and remember it will only fit Minolta or the new Sony body - which is nice enough but has noise issues, AF issues, metering issues - and is not a Canon.
I don't drool over the 28-410 equivalent zoom range on bridge cameras either.

[Krapo]

MrChad, what do you like so much with that lens?
The max aperture is pretty low, especially considering that you already have the 24-70 f/2.8!
The range is interesting, but I favour the aperture over the range.

On the other hand, the 135 f/1.8 looks really nice :)

[MrChad]

I like that it's 40mm longer then the 17-40L for about the same price. I had assumed anything with the Zeiss name would be ok image wise.

I don't think it's a bridge lens, the Sony-Minolta system with Anti-shake won't support a FF sensor.

[Tee Why]

For a small fee, I can paint your 24-70 lens super glow white with a thick red ring and even write Leica-Zeiss on it, if it's a brand image thing.
:)

[My Porsche]

new Sony body - which is nice enough but has noise issues, AF issues, metering issues
ok now how the hell do you know that? it's not even out, nor have pictures from it been released.

one thing i've found in alot of canon owners is a major sense of superiority, they think canon is the best, everything else is garbage. sure canon makes good cameras/lenses, but there are other good ones out there, just because it doesnt have canon written on it doesn't mean it's an inferior product.

then there are people like lorek, who dont act like that, they just use their canon gear and make extraordinary results with it.


not meant to be a mean post, it just seems about 50% of the canon owners i've run into have this "superiority complex"

[who me?]

Not to mention that the sensor is the same one used in the Nikon D22. Granted that I am sure the processing of that sensor data is different, that camera is starting with a good sensor.
The way I look at this is that "hopefully" it will spur Canon to make some new lenses. Unlike the newer ones that break the bank like the 24-105 and the new 17-55. Personally, neither of these lenses need the IS for the short focal lengths. I wish these came without IS. They would be much more affordable then.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sony's Camera was announced yesterday.. and yet it allready has "noise issues" :lol:

I love the internet :mrgreen:

[CyberDyneSystems]

....one thing i've found in alot of canon owners is a major sense of superiority, they think canon is the best, everything else is garbage.

Al though I agree with the sentiment of your first sentence 100%..
This quoted statement woul apply to any group of enthusiasts.. really. The Nikonians forum is exactly the same.... :lol:

It just seems to be the way of things on the 'net.. it's not even a camera thing.. it's a brand thing whether it's cars, cameras or vacuum cleaners.. (let's not get the Dyson Owners started! ) :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have a good buddy that just switched from Minolta gear to Canon, I hope he's not ticked :)

Given the price and specs of the new Sony.. I'd be! :mad:

The Sony looks awesome with 10MP and built in Image Stabilation.. I'd love a Canon with those specs!

[My Porsche]

Al though I agree with the sentiment of your first sentence 100%..
This quoted statement woul apply to any group of enthusiasts.. really. The Nikonians forum is exactly the same.... :lol:

It just seems to be the way of things on the 'net.. it's not even a camera thing.. it's a brand thing whether it's cars, cameras or vacuum cleaners.. (let's not get the Dyson Owners started! ) :lol:
i thought about joining the nikonians forumw but it was like $30 a year so i said "f*ck that" and moved on :p

yeah but with cars, Porsche really is the best, so its not a personal opinion :lol: :lol: :lol:

i want to try a dyson, see if his "867 years of developement" were worth it...ok maybe 17 years aubt thats a long time to spend working on a vacuum...

[My Porsche]

Sony's Camera was announced yesterday.. and yet it allready has "noise issues" :lol:

I love the internet :mrgreen:
seriously, all we know about it is:
10mp
ccd sensor
19 new lenses


and now its already developed "noise issues"...amazing.

[MrChad]

I found a review for the Minolta 70-200mm f2.8 G, you know that's one very nicely made lens for a non-Canon :lol: Not sure why Sony calls it a new lens?

It would be nice if Canon had a trick lens hood with a door for access to polarizing filters, how neat is that? Now that would make a hood worth $30 IMO. :p

http://www.marcuskarlsen.com/PhotoBag/Minolta_70-200_f28_SSM.htm

The auther even seams to like his minolta gear after using an L IS, gasp!!! :lol:

My buddy loved his old Minolta kit, he simply switched to Canon since me and another buddy have Canon gear. Had I owned a bunch of Minolta G lenses, I think I would have stocked up on used 5D/7D's on ebay rather then invest in Canon gear.

If the Sony will support the older Minolta lenses that's really cool for all those Minolta users IMO.

[Krapo]

Al though I agree with the sentiment of your first sentence 100%..
This quoted statement woul apply to any group of enthusiasts.. really. The Nikonians forum is exactly the same.... :lol:
It just seems to be the way of things on the 'net.. it's not even a camera thing.. it's a brand thing whether it's cars, cameras or vacuum cleaners.. (let's not get the Dyson Owners started! ) :lol:
and needless to mention MAC forums or magazines! Apple fanatics are the worst of all. Sincerely. Lately, I have been seduced by the Macbook Pro. I then bought a MAC dedicated magazine that was testing that machine.
I could not believe it! There was not a single page without them mentioning that PCs were cr@p and how dumb should a PC user be! And it was a respected magazine!

Precision: I am talking about MAC fanatics, not users. Luckily, a lot of users are just... well, users :)
I still believe MACs are great machines, but I'm a bit reluctant to be part of that community...:confused:

[MrChad]

and needless to mention MAC forums or magazines! Apple fanatics are the worst of all. Sincerely. Lately, I have been seduced by the Macbook Pro. I then bought a MAC dedicated magazine that was testing that machine.
I could not believe it! There was not a single page without them mentioning that PCs were cr@p and how dumb should a PC user be! And it was a respected magazine!

Precision: I am talking about MAC fanatics, not users. Luckily, a lot of users are just... well, users :)
I still believe MACs are great machines, but I'm a bit reluctant to be part of that community...:confused:


My wife uses a Mac for her line of work, it's a real gem. I might have to get me one some day. Her friend is mac-natic, it's cool though he get's us software cheap...

[Andy_T]

It might be a bit early to guess whether the ZA lenses will be outsourced or not.

The Planar 85/1.4 surely looks very much like the ZM and ZF versions that were recently launched - with the difference being the AF capability.

The 16-80 is a reduced image frame lens, maybe similar to the 17-85 IS (which is also a very nice lens, I am assured by many users)

Best regards,
Andy

[Matatazela]

This thread (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra100/page3.asp)has a list of the prices for these new lenses. They are not inexpensive, and sometimes 1.5X the L equivalent. Have a look at the 300f/2.8 (and it is Sony, not Zeiss!!!) as an example... This is not a rumour!!!

[DrPablo]

Zeiss, Leica, etc may rule the small and medium format world with their prime lenses, but honestly do you think a 16-80 Zeiss zoom lens would be that much better than the Canon and Nikon alternatives? A mass-produced zoom lens is going to have more sources of error (i.e. more lens elements) and less quality control than the elite high end glass they make. So even though it's probably true that the Zeiss name is being used somewhat loosely in this case, even if it were a true Zeiss lens I don't think it would be worth much more than the Canon alternative. This is a different story than, say, the 21mm distagon or 18mm Zuiko that people will buy for $3000 to adapt to their 5D.

[MrChad]

This thread (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra100/page3.asp)has a list of the prices for these new lenses. They are not inexpensive, and sometimes 1.5X the L equivalent. Have a look at the 300f/2.8 (and it is Sony, not Zeiss!!!) as an example... This is not a rumour!!!

If you look all the Sony lenses are simply re-releases of prior Minolta glass. Lenses like the 70-200 f/2.8 and 300 f/2.8 where Minolta G type lenses, comparable to Canon L and top Nikkors. Theses lenses to those that used them were worth every penny.

http://www.marcuskarlsen.com/PhotoBag/Minolta_300_f28_SSM.htm

Canon L's are actually the cheapest (street price) of the pro type lenses in most cases, likely due to the volume of sales and outsourcing of lower line glass and parts to Malaysia. Canon does source some of there top lenses to other contries. L's are simply assembled in Japan.

If you know your Minolta lenses you'd be able to figure out which of the new Sony's are the keepers.

[lakiluno]

they don't have anything above 300mm though - hardly a way to attract professional sportsshooters, although, tbh, any major pro that was using minolta when they went bust probably sold up and moved to a manufacturer with a more certain future.

[MrChad]

they don't have anything above 300mm though - hardly a way to attract professional sportsshooters, although, tbh, any major pro that was using minolta when they went bust probably sold up and moved to a manufacturer with a more certain future.

http://www.marcuskarlsen.com/index.html

This guy didn't, he actually sold his Canon gear when the 7D hit shelves it would appear. If anything I'd say the 7D would keep them shooting if they had the lenses, suddenly all lenses had IS and the images are likely as good as anything from a Canon APS-C or Nikon body.

Sony releasing the APO-G lenses would lead me to speculate a harder more pro edge Alpha must be in the works...

[Matatazela]

Thanks Mr Chad. I must confess to knowing nothing about the KM lenses or cameras. However, the street price of these re-released lenses is extraordinary, when you consider the equivalents in Canon.

[Andy_T]

However, the street price of these re-released lenses is extraordinary, when you consider the equivalents in Canon.

It is still an open question whether the list prices given will be the street prices later...

Best regards,
Andy

[MrChad]

Thanks Mr Chad. I must confess to knowing nothing about the KM lenses or cameras. However, the street price of these re-released lenses is extraordinary, when you consider the equivalents in Canon.

I'm not so sure that the KM 70-200mm f/2.8 may not be a better lens. In any event, Canon has always had some of the lowest priced OEM Pro glass. The build of the 70-200 KM look's fantastic in any case. So KM/Sony lens prices don't bother me. Add in the fact that the 7D and all newer KM mount dslr's have the built in IS, that's a nice package.

The 300mm f/2.8 APO-G looks like a world class tele prime from what I've read.

The 7D likely is a tad better if not right in-line with the 20D class camera. For those user that may never go full pro gear, it's a nice bit of kit IMO.

I shoot Canon gear because most of my buds had Canon gear and I wanted to swap lenses with them. If they all had Nikon or KM gear, I'm sure I'd own that and be just as happy.

[Krapo]

they don't have anything above 300mm though - hardly a way to attract professional sportsshooters, although, tbh, any major pro that was using minolta when they went bust probably sold up and moved to a manufacturer with a more certain future.

You're pinpointing what I believe is a contradiction in Sony strategy.
They anounced a wide range of lenses, from entry-level Sony lenses to high end ex-KM G series or Carl Zeiss gems like the 135 1.8 or the 85 1.4.
I can understand that they launched the consumer level Alpha 100 first, since this segment is certainly the most active. But while Sony said they would release a prosumer body soon (probably a competitor of the D200 - 5D), they said they were not really aiming at the pro market.
I don't think they expect to sell many 300 2.8. To me, it seems more like an advertising product than like a real attempt to convince the pros.
Why would a pro buy a Sony 300 2.8 if they have no serious pro body to offer?
On the other hand, how many consumer will buy a 300 2.8 to pair with their Alpha 100? It's like mounting a 400 2.8L on a 350D. It probably works very nicely, but it's just not a very common configuration.

I'm really curious to see what Sony is preparing for next year and how they are going to build up their whole system (bodies and lenses)!