Should we have a min post count before being able to sell?

[BigBlueDodge]

So, just tonight I've watched two people create accounts only to post items for sale in this site on multiple forums (obvious trolls). One post was an obvious scam (for example, he was selling IPOD's for $55) On many of the forum sites I visit there are requirements that you must have X posts before you can put things up for sale. We already have that here in the Glamour and Nude forum. So, I want to get some opinions from other users. What do you think the minimum post count should be before being to be able to post items for sale?

[dubge]

I have seen it on other forums and 50 posts rings a bell

[R_Metzel]

Not sure what I think on this. I have bought a few things from people on here with next to no posts. Most of them hang out on FM though. I figure Ive been burned on other forums(non-photo) by both new and old members. Just because a person has 1000 posts on the forum doesnt mean that they are an honest seller. They almost always are but regardless. Not to say that the low post would be any more honest but I do feel better when they have been around awhile and have a good rep. If they have enough good feedback on any forum or ebay selling, Ill buy from them even if they have 1 post. If they do make a minimum post count I would go with 100.

[liza]

Although there's no way to completely ensure that a person won't burn another member, this would serve as a preventative measure. If you make it difficult for them, they're less prone to do it.

[GNMink]

I moderate the for sale section at www.xtremesystems.org

we require a 100 post count before members can access the section, a picture of the actual item for sale with the users screen name and date, the asking price (no make offers), and references (heatware, ebay, etc.)

We watch for trolls and the like, but people still get burned. In the end its the buy/seller that are ultimately responsable for their safety and security. But at least with the measures we have in place the chances are reduced that a con or troll can take advantage of our members.

[sugarzebra]

I think its always the buyer's responsibility to determine whether a seller is trustworthy before making a purchase (caveat emptor), and this is generally done through PM's, emails, pictures and even phone conversations. The number of posts a particular seller has doesnt figure prominantly in the due diligence, and the assumption that the number of posts reflects the trustworthiness of a seller may not be correct. Feedback from others who have had financial transactions with the seller may be a better yard stick.

[RDNZL]

Ive beeen cheated to degrees lots of times, but the only time I've been completely robbed online was by a guy on a motorycle forum that had over 1000 posts. Not the biggest on that forum, but a regular that had been there for awhile.
I only today broke the 50 mark... but already I have sold items to 3 people, they've received and are happy(well one still hasn't replied if she is happy, but she signed for it and doesn't reply to email/pm and not her email is bouncing as full, so I just hope that she is ok).
Maybe anyone under 100 could sell after giving some proof to a mod. Traceable ISP email and provable good feedback from some other site(FM ebay etc).
In the end, nothing is going to stop you getting ripped off short of you hiring a mercenary to go collect your item.:lol:

[cjm]

50 or 100 would be good. Not hard to get there and the post count means nothing really but it would take time for a fly by scammer. However, thankfully there are plenty enough people that can smell a scam here and when we do see one, we question the seller for the truth and if they are not legit (like selling a 30D that has never come out of the box yet its a picture of the box taken with a 30D) we expose it. Always, even on eBay its buyer beware, so here is no different.

Personally when I buy something here, I always ask if they have eBay feedback, and if they do and give me a name, I then email that eBayer to confirm if they are who they say they are. And PayPal payments to ensure safety.

[Transonic]

I moderate the for sale section at www.xtremesystems.org (http://www.xtremesystems.org)Great site ;) I moderate at overclock.net (http://www.overclock.net) and we require 75 rep points to post in the FS section. This site hasn't implimented the use to reps (yet) so we obviously have to depend purely on post count.

This site has a totally different crowd than the one I mod for, older & more mature IMO. I'm fine with not having a minimum as long as the seller posts some references. No matter where you go it's always a "but at your own risk" situation.

[GNMink]

Great site ;) I moderate at overclock.net (http://www.overclock.net) and we require 75 rep points to post in the FS section. This site hasn't implimented the use to reps (yet) so we obviously have to depend purely on post count.

This site has a totally different crowd than the one I mod for, older & more mature IMO. I'm fine with not having a minimum as long as the seller posts some references. No matter where you go it's always a "but at your own risk" situation.

hey another hardware geek like me!!! lol

Yes, this site is much more mature and well behaved than most sites I visit both camera related and hardware.

[NBEast]

Voted zero because a scammer would just make 50 (or whatever) bogus posts then we loose the one tool for weeding out the bums. Better to have them try selling with their 5 posts.

I WOULD like to see buyers feedback Positive or Negative.

[Rob612]

Voted zero because a scammer would just make 50 (or whatever) bogus posts then we loose the one tool for weeding out the bums. Better to have them try selling with their 5 posts.

I WOULD like to see buyers feedback Positive or Negative.

Voted 200 for the same reason. Posting 200 bogus will take a lot of time, and he can be tracked down and banned before he reaches the threshold :)

Agree with the feedback.

[mapollo]

I've bought a L lens and a 20d from two members on this forum who had single figure post counts. Both sellers contacted me by phone when asked and provided me with their phone numbers and agreed to meet me in person to exchange. Both were a pleasure to deal with.

I would have lost both purchases with a minimum post count before being able to sell.

Is being ripped off here a problem?

I've been around for a while and I don't recall reading about anyone being ripped off as a direct result of a POTN "sell" posting.

Also we have a WTB forum. What would there be to stop a potential scammer with a low post count contacting a buyer by PM and offering bogus gear to them that way.

My vote is unless we have a real problem here it should be left as it is.

[Double_Agent]

I think that rather than having a post count, you should have a timelimit. I have purchased a few items from here and dont have a huge post count. Yet I think you will see from the Feedbacks thread that all my transactions have been super efficient and completed extremely positively by both Buyer and Seller.

Someone will always get ripped off. It is always the rule of "BUYER BEWARE" to make sure that they get what they have paid for.

Personally, I think its up to the mods to go through the sales and make sure they are fit for purpose etc etc. As a minimum, I think there should be at least 1 photo of whatever is for sale along with your reputation from whatever combination of forums, websites etc. If your posts dont contain this, then the mods should do something about them.

By having their reputations available to see, its much harder to pull a scam.

Just my thoughts ont he subject.

Best Regards

Mikey

[muscleflex]

i think they should have a post count! this way, we can at least guarantee that they are avid hobbyists like us and not just resellers who may not even know what they're selling!

[tommykjensen]

i think they should have a post count! this way, we can at least guarantee that they are avid hobbyists like us and not just resellers who may not even know what they're selling!

A post count is no guarantee of that.

[neil_r]

A post count guarantees nothing. As with all transactions and particularly transactions via the web Caveat Emptor !

[condyk]

I am happy with how things are in this regard and one needs to take personal responsibility for buying decisions and do any necessary checks. A fool and his money are soon parted. I have bought and sold to/from low post count people with no problem. But I am careful. Also, someone with a high post count could easily use 'reputation' to shaft someone with a low post count.

However, asking people to use PM for asking questions here now actually IMO makes it less safe for buyers. If I read a thread where something seemed fishy then I might consider advising caution to the buyer. When all 'dealings' are supposed to now go through PM then this makes any sense of a community policing itself very difficult.

[Pekka]

However, asking people to use PM for asking questions here now actually IMO makes it less safe for buyers. If I read a thread where something seemed fishy then I might consider advising caution to the buyer. When all 'dealings' are supposed to now go through PM then this makes any sense of a community policing itself very difficult.

This has already been discussed. Reason for PM policy is to provide equal visibility for all posters.

And about post count: buyer is solely resposible of taking all possible precautions and making sure the transaction is safe. Post count does not tell anything - we have users who have been with us since the beginning and posted only few times. We also have users who have posted dozens of posts in a week. And also: we do not provide posting history IP info for tracking users after a "bad deal".

In short: if you feel uncomfortable with seller, do not buy. Internet commerce needs skills just like buying a car from a stranger.

[condyk]

This has already been discussed. Reason for PM policy is to provide equal visibility for all posters.


I know ... and there is a possible knock on effect to that choice that means the buy and sell section is potentially less open to community scrutiny and so is potentially less secure for some people. Security in transactions is what we are discussing.

If you Mods feel 'security' is less of a priority than giving posts 'equal visibility' then that is fine by me. It's a choice and most involve compromises. I don't agree with this one, but at the end of the day I can take care of my own approach to 'security'. My minor worry is about people here who might need and appreciate, for whatever reason, inexperience perhaps, other members looking out for them a little.

[Pekka]

I know ... and there is a possible knock on effect to that choice that means the buy and sell section is potentially less open to community scrutiny and so is potentially less secure for some people. Security in transactions is what we are discussing.

If you Mods feel 'security' is less of a priority than giving posts 'equal visibility' then that is fine by me. It's a choice and most involve compromises. I don't agree with this one, but at the end of the day I can take care of my own approach to 'security'. My minor worry is about people here who might need and appreciate, for whatever reason, inexperience perhaps, other members looking out for them a little.

You can always PM anyone who in your opinion needs a warning or advice.

[condyk]

No, no, no ... that can't work because of what we have been told about PMing questions, etc.

1. How would anyone know if there is anything dodgy if everyone is PMing their questions to the seller? We never see the questions and so never see the answers!

2. How would one know who to PM a warning to when you never know who is considering buying something because inquiries are made to the seller via PM only?

3. One may only get suspicious about a sale as a thread unfolds with buyer questions and seller answers. Then one may usefully PM something to the possible buyer, but also see 2 above!

I've made my points about this and that is all I will say about it. I will just echo what others are saying ... let buyer and seller both beware.

[nation]

The community is always here to help. The shape or form of that help comes through the various forum sections and isn't necessarily restricted to specific buy and sell threads. Before entering, or even contemplating, transactions it's up to both parties to have done their research either by way of forum searches or creating a thread. There's a wealth of information already here and with the requisite research on the product they're after (price ranges, what to look for, model changes, suitability for needs etc) already under their belt inexperienced buyers and sellers shouldn't have problems making the correct choices. Unfortunately the deal closing details like the seller requesting funds to be trfed to his Dodgy Bros bank account in Nairobi will always be handled by PM. However, knowing that second hand internet sales are open to any potential crook and don't have the same support as a bricks and mortar store just means people have to exercise that little extra bit of caution and more improtantly, logic and common sense.

[Ronald S. Jr.]

I think between questions having to be kept to PM's, and the recently revised rules in what info you have to provide in sale threads, we're pretty well covered. According to the rules, just about anything you should have to ask is already required to be posted in a for sale thread.

[Big WIll]

I moderate the for sale section at www.xtremesystems.org (http://www.xtremesystems.org)

we require a 100 post count before members can access the section, a picture of the actual item for sale with the users screen name and date, the asking price (no make offers), and references (heatware, ebay, etc.)



I believe this is the best option... Between 80-120 posts something like that.

[BigBlueDodge]

Oh man, this post has been moved to the thread graveyard. It will now just die off silently as no one ever visits this forum......<play doom & gloom music, and insert squawk of Raven in the background>

[ssim]

I think it is reasonable to have a post count of "x" before being able to sell things here. I've only ever sold one thing on here and it was from somone that hung at FM and he created an account here to PM me. While the sale went through it was nothing but a hassle to be perfectly honest. I was accused of selling a crappy lens to him when in fact he pm'd me said he would take it for my asking price, sight unseen. I thought it was weird but he wanted it really bad, obviously. A couple of days later I got an email from him to say that after further testing the lens was ok, it just wasn't what he was looking for.

I like to think of POTN as a rather large family and while putting in the post limits is not going to guarantee anything, it does allow you to get to know the person somewhat by their posts.

If we can do it for Glamour why not here.

[petrolhead]

Many forums now have the policy that members need to have post 100 posts. This stops unknown people popping in and using the forum just to sell. Gives buyers some feeling for what kind of person the seller is. It also diswades opportunists

[blue_max]

Is this question in response to a need?

Personally, if a seller has a low post count, I make more thorough enquiries. Shots of the item (as it is a photography forum) also help as you can guage whether they can use a camera!

I have tried to sell on other photographic forums (simultaneously), but had my post deleted because I wasn't a 'regular' member. Well, I hang out here, so you can't be everywhere. They wouldn't even enter into discussion about it - one person made the decision and there was no appeal - it was just deleted!

So their forum members lost an opportunity to buy a genuine bit of kit.

If you are trying to protect new members, maybe there should be a minimum number of posts before you can BUY ;)

Graham

[Steve Parr]

Posts counts are absolutely meaningless.

Some people here can burn through 50 posts in an afternoon. Should that make a newbie, who does the same, suddenyl trustworthy?

[kram]

In short: if you feel uncomfortable with seller, do not buy. Internet commerce needs skills just like buying a car from a stranger.

I agree with this. Whenever I have considered a buy from any other forum member, I spend a good half an hour going through their posts (not just their count). This way, I know if I can trust them when they ' this lens is as sharp as my meat cleaver:) '

[petrolhead]

However, asking people to use PM for asking questions here now actually IMO makes it less safe for buyers. If I read a thread where something seemed fishy then I might consider advising caution to the buyer. When all 'dealings' are supposed to now go through PM then this makes any sense of a community policing itself very difficult.
I do agree with this.

Its keeps everything in the open so all partied knows whats going on

[blue_max]

I do agree with this.

Its keeps everything in the open so all partied knows whats going on

Trouble is, is allows all sorts of spurious comments to be made, which may be unfair and even illegal. Currently the item is for sale until it is sold or withdrawn.

I find it galling that people can ask over the odds for things, but have to bite my lip.

The forum probably has to remain impartial. To intervene in any way would make it a party to any transaction.

It has been around for a while now and I think it has probably got it right so far.

Graham

[Wilt]

I agree that joining just to list in Classified invites abuse, and that having 100 posts does not validate someone as being honest and selling in an ethical manner. However, in 25+ years involvement in BBS and now web based photographic communities, generally members of a community do not tend to be dishonest in their dealings with other members of the community...it is too easy to be 'blackballed' within the community by 'word of mouth' ("don't ever buy from...because..."). The utmost ethical sales transactions have occurred within small communities like Compuserve Photography, for example, and I have been at either end of a number of sale transactions in making this statement.
I think if the forum moderators could help enforcement of this blackballing by linking the ouster to an email address, not merely the forum alias we all use, that puts a bit more meat behind it (yes, i know it is simple for each of us to adopt a new email address, burning our bridges behind us!).

[petrolhead]

I can only go by what the AVforum does. It does not allow thread spoiling and if the item is available cheaper then a link to that item as proff must be provided