This has become my serious photographer pet peeve

[song4themoon]

People not respecting the photographer and the fact that the couple pays money for me to get nice shots of their wedding.

I shot a wedding yesterday and after the ceremony they had a little receiving line and after that we started the group shots. Well we cleared the room, I had them pose, stepped back and when I turn around there is 5 or more people right in front of me taking pictures... do you think they would move? NO. In the end I just sat there waiting till they were done because nothing helped.. they did it with every shot, even after being told that I was their photographer! It was very very frustrating.

I had asked the couple in advance that it might be best to send the guest to the reception after the receiving line and only keep the family there thats supposed to be in the shots. But they ended up not doing that.

It was a wonderful wedding and I think I have a lot of good shots but this really pissed me off!

[etaf]

yea that can be a big problem - Did you ask the bride and groom to tell there guests to move -
I have had this issue and told them to take the pictures after me - and pointed out to B&G the time would be considerable. Never had a problem with these point and shoots taken pictures - often poor quality so i dont worry to much about others taqken pictures - But I also agree a price before hand and have this discussion with B&G before hand

Thats why whenever I do a wedding {not proffesional only done about 20 so far} I ask for a member of the family to assist me. it helps to get people out the way and also identify people for the groups

[MDJAK]

I now know what you mean. I was taking pictures yesterday at my first wedding, and during the cake cutting ceremony, when the groom removed the garter, etc, the snapshooters were all around and the subjects' eyes were also all around and sometimes not looking at me. I also just waited for them to be done at times, but that would have also made me miss the shot.

I don't know if there's a solution, but if there is, I'd sure like to know what it is.

mark

[etaf]

i always ask the group etc to look at me - and shoot it out a few times - also part of the discussion with B&G to start with .
so by the end of the shoot - it becomes a sort of slogan -
if you cant see the camera the cmaera cant see you - in big groups

[Bruce Hamilton]

I don't know if there's a solution, but if there is, I'd sure like to know what it is.

Confiscate everyone's cameras, including camera phones. ;)

All you need to do is word your wedding contract accordingly and stipulate your options if guests interfere with you doing your job. If your option is to leave and keep any monies paid, the bride and groom will insure compliance from their guests.

[song4themoon]

Well I am not all that sure about it. I dont have it in my contract but I did tell the couple in avance that I need them to make sure that the guest step back for important shots (formals, cutting cake.. ) They kept telling the guest that I was the photographer and that I was trying to take pictures, but people would move for 1 shot and then start all over. Thats why I had also asked them originally to send the guest over to the reception site and only keep the family that will be in the formal shots with us.

Well I guess since they didnt do that, it wasnt my problem anymore, but its still very frustrating

[etaf]

i guess- they should have then handed the autority back to your - so something please stand back and allow the photographer to do his/her job and he/she will tell you when you can come back again - and we will cut the cake again for guests to take pictures - terrible rudeness these days I think we will see more of this.....

I was at an outside concert at wisely garden centre and had to tell a party to be quite as all they wanted to do was talk all the way through the performance - I actually went up to the loudmouthed block, and explained that I was very happy to go up and ask the performer and orchestra to be quite while he finished his conversation.
RANT over sorry

[Spiral Photo]

When my brother and I used to do weddings together, we made it very clear to the client that if anyone starts shooting photos during the group shots, we won't have a problem telling them to stop. It's in the contract upon hire that no one is to be taking shots except for the photographer during those shots. Come across as an @$$hole of you have to, it's in the contract. You may even make an announcement to the guests before shooting the group shots. "I just wanted to announce this in advance, that it would be greatly appreciated that no one shoot any photos while I'm doing the group shots. There are a number of reasons for this, but primarily I don't want anyone's flash getting in any of my shots, nor do I want anyone's flash setting off my flash units."
At that point, many people will no longer like you, but you're guaranteeing that the bride and groom are getting what they paid for, and you're making everyone adhere to the stipulation in the contract. Once all that is overwith and everyone is at the reception, most people will have forgotten and moved on.

[tim]

You need to be assertive to do a wedding. People have always complied with reasonable requests, but i'm reasonably assertive and can be quite loud. If someone insists on sneeking in for a shot or two I don't mind, then I ask them to clear out (nicely). Often I don't allow anyone in the room or behind me when i'm shooting, that also solves the problem.

Shooting with studio lighting also solves the problem - their photos turn out massively underexposed and they have no idea why! :D

[sapearl]

That's a tough situation Song - I'm sorry to hear about the aggravation. Maybe because I look old with my beard and move very quickly during the portraits, that people are afraid of getting run over by me and stay out of my way :D . There are always one or two photographers hovering around me, but it's rarely a problem. Normally the time is tight, and I firmly but diplomatically do NOT wait for others to finish THEIR shots while I repose the group for my other shots. If they are slow, they lose.

As for contract statements, here is what I've had included in mine for some years:

"Official Photography: Stuart Pearl will be providing the official photography for the wedding of the bride and groom named in this contract. Although other photographs may be taken by guests attending the wedding, no photographs may be taken by any other person which obstruct or interfere with the official PHOTOGRAPHER. When group or individual portraits are being taken, guests must wait until the PHOTOGRAPHER completes the photograph before they can engage in picture taking."

Part of the problem is I suspect more people take advantage of the good nature of women as opposing to messing with a man, so they ignore your pleas. But it's about CONFIDENCE and PURPOSE. The more you do this, the more self confidence and command of the situation you will develop over time. At some point, NOBODY will want to mess with you. ;) - Stu

[rightaway]

As Stu mentionned, I just keep on trucking...
When I am done with a pose I don't even look over my shoulder and off we go to something else. I don't look to see if I am blocking someone's shot.
I have seen a photographer a couple years ago get into a verbal fight with some guests as he was trying to protect his apprently "copyrighted" poses!!!
Life is too short and I don't have the energy nor the time to do that.

I just make sure that I tell the people posing for me that they have to look at only one camera unless told otherwise by me ;) .

Beware paparasis are everywhere.

[tim]

I often let an aunty or uncle in with their baby cameras (ie compact ones) to take a particular photo if they want to. I'd not let anyone with an SLR do it, and people with SLRs are usually a lot better than people with baby cameras about staying out of the way.

[OdiN1701]

In my contract it states that that time is specifically for me, and if guests are not cooperative, I can end coverage, leave, and they forfiet their fees. However I do say that after I am done with formals if guests want to take photos at the altar then they are welcome to.

I also am probably a bit more forceful than some. I will tell people to move, say excuse me, etc. and if necessary i will squeeze my way though. It is an interesting task to be forceful but also polite at the same time :P

[aparmley]

I wonder if you could add some visual aid in a meeting prior to the wedding - perhaps take a few real crappy images of B&G's guests in some of the photos [like they got in the way]- a few ambient light shots taken while their family's flash on their P&S's go off and maybe even mess with the WB - add to those a few shots of them looking at other peoples cameras and then just kinda show the bride why you ask that guests with cameras be curtious and respect your job - because otherwise this is what she'll get. Maybe that will scare her into being a little more proactive to help you do your job. Don't make it look like these are the photos you take or that you couldn't manage to get better shots - just kind of present the images to her and say ,with the point being, when other guests start clicking away with no respect for the WP or the couple this could be what their wedding album looks like. . . ? ? ? maybe its a bad idea but I don't think a lot of couples understand why WP ask this of the guests - I think it might be a little over the top but sometimes saying it makes it more difficult for you to do the job you were hired to do doesn't quite register with the B&G as much as seeing why. . . just a thought. . .

The wedding I assisted last night we had lots of guests shooting - and some even shouting "look over here!" the WP just shouted back you better not look over there you better look right here in my lens. . .

[tim]

No need to add another worry for the bride, a little confidence and assertiveness from the photographer on the day is enough. Mention it to her, but don't worry her with it.

[jj1987]

No need to add another worry for the bride, a little confidence and assertiveness from the photographer on the day is enough. Mention it to her, but don't worry her with it.
and to add to what Tim says..........

Just get in their way. Act like they aren't there, and if it requires stepping in front of them, then backing into them till they get the hint to move, do it. People will take that as "oh crap I'm in their way" but they wont remember you being rude, and if they do, they probly arent someone you want to do buisness with down the line anyways.

[song4themoon]

I think sapearl made a good point here... that might be just my problem.

I look extremely young.. so young that some people dont even give me 20 (I am closer to the 30's). I am also very short with my 5'2 and my voice is maybe less powerful than the voice from other people. I wonder if people dont take me seriously. But how can I work around this?

[Arnie1]

I think sapearl made a good point here... that might be just my problem.

I look extremely young.. so young that some people dont even give me 20 (I am closer to the 30's). I am also very short with my 5'2 and my voice is maybe less powerful than the voice from other people. I wonder if people dont take me seriously. But how can I work around this?


.....wear a big hat? :D

[tim]

Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

[song4themoon]

lol, yeah that will do ... haha

[Sharyn1983]

I tell the guests that they can take pictures while I am setting up a shot or after I am done, but in no way can they take pictures while I am taking the picture. When I am ready to take the picture I will announce it to the people in the shot and I fully expect people to stop shooting and move back. If they don't my assistant will politely request them to not shoot until I am done. I may be only 5'3 and 23 but they listen (could also be because my assistant is 6'4 and 200 lbs). Either way I think they comply because I am not preventing them from taking pictures, just limiting when they can take pictures. I think they will respect you if you acknowledge that they want to take their own pictures, but (as Tim suggests) be firm as to your purpose and importance in the wedding. You are being paid by the bride to document their wedding and not them. As for the important parts such as the cake cutting, I personally tell the bride and groom to take their time so people can try some shots, but I have precedence, meaning... do not interfere with my shots.

[Sharyn1983]

sometime I take advantage of multiple photographers by snapping some shots of them posing for other people taking pictures, before I ask them to pose for me.

[sapearl]

I had a notion that was the case Song ;) . Even though I'm a fuzzy old goat and I'm sure you're a lot prettier, here's something that may help in the future.

IMHO, I beleive that successful group wedding photography depends upon a good relationship with the guests as well as the wedding party itself.

As soon as I arrive at the church (early) I start building a rapport with the coordinator, if one is present, the clergy, and the guests as they arrive. "Hello, how are you.... " just little pleasantries - but it does call attention to yourself as the pro, and begins building an awareness that you are there to do the "hired" work. I may even engage in a little conversation about the job that day, although I don't go overboard.

By the time we're doing group shots after the ceremony, it's been well established that I need to do an uninterrupted job. Tim hits the nail on the head: "You have to be assertive, " and generally, most folks are agreeable to reasonable requests and will respect your wishes.

I also take Rightaway's advice. When I'm done with one set of poses, I just roll onto the next, moving quickly... and if I bump into somebody I smile, apologize and say I'm sorry. And you know what? THEY always apologize to me and move out of the way - FAST. And from that moment on, nobody wants to get run over by the photographer or have his toes crushed :lol: . It's all in they way you handle yourself and respect the guests - never be rude; they will spot that and it will be poison for the rest of the day.

- Stu

I think sapearl made a good point here... that might be just my problem.

I look extremely young.. so young that some people dont even give me 20 (I am closer to the 30's). I am also very short with my 5'2 and my voice is maybe less powerful than the voice from other people. I wonder if people dont take me seriously. But how can I work around this?

[sapearl]

I don't know how you dress - I'm sure it's very nice, but this is what my wife and I always advise our daughters who are 20 and 24, and both very petite at 5'.

Early on we purchased them nice, conservative business suits for the "world"; navy blue or black, pinstripe, slacks - CONSERVATIVELY elegant, used with restrained makeup.... you get the picture. This doesn't make them look thirty, but it does lend a more mature and business-like demeanor and has gotten them more respect.

Those suits have gotten so many compliments - best investments we've made. ;) - Stu

.......
I look extremely young.. so young that some people dont even give me 20 (I am closer to the 30's). I am also very short with my 5'2 and my voice is maybe less powerful than the voice from other people. ......

[saravrose]

I don't know how you dress - I'm sure it's very nice, but this is what my wife and I always advise our daughters who are 20 and 24, and both very petite at 5'.

Early on we purchased them nice, conservative business suits for the "world"; navy blue or black, pinstripe, slacks - CONSERVATIVELY elegant, used with restrained makeup.... you get the picture. This doesn't make them look thirty, but it does lend a more mature and business-like demeanor and has gotten them more respect.

Those suits have gotten so many compliments - best investments we've made. ;) - Stu

very true.. I'm short as well.. and how I dress usually has a pretty big effect on how i'm treated.. I show up in jeans they treat me like a young kid.. I show up in my 'serious' outfits folks tend to treat me a little more serious...

sari

[kawter2]

IMO the more a photographer tries to force respect, the less they will respect you. Kinda like that old H.S. boyfriend girlfriend scenario. You have to approach it very carefully or you will just annoy them

[sapearl]

So very, very true..... most people, fortunately or unfortunately, will treat you the way you act. Act like a victim, you'll get treated like one (I tell that one to my kids :lol: ); act like a pro and most will treat you that way.

Song, if you still have trouble in the future, perhaps there is a large, silent, hulking intimidating significant other who can assist as your enforcer? ;) . - Stu

IMO the more a photographer tries to force respect, the less they will respect you. Kinda like that old H.S. boyfriend girlfriend scenario. You have to approach it very carefully or you will just annoy them

[liza]

This thread is giving me a very bad feeling, as I'm scheduled to shoot a wedding in about three weeks. When I told the couple that I didn't want a bunch of point and shooters in the room when I was shooting formals, they gave me a really funny look. I hope that doesn't foreshadow a situation like the ones you've described.

[sapearl]

I wouldn't worry Liza.... I'm sure things will go well for you.

There are always the point and shooters. Just act the part of the benevolent "director", smile, and move around like you own the place, and people should pretty much stay out of your way. It's never a perfect situation, by I've never had a person refuse my "excuse me, but I need to get over here, please." - Stu

This thread is giving me a very bad feeling, as I'm scheduled to shoot a wedding in about three weeks. When I told the couple that I didn't want a bunch of point and shooters in the room when I was shooting formals, they gave me a really funny look. I hope that doesn't foreshadow a situation like the ones you've described.

[song4themoon]

The sigificant other has to babysit while I work :)

[monter]

I was a second shooter at my first wedding on Friday and we had the same problem... only the biggest problem was a man with an SLR and a "big ole flash". I'm sure he was trying to save the bride and groom some money, but he ended up messing up lighting on MANY of the shots. Really really ticked the senior photog off. His solution was to have me and the other assistant step in front of this guy as much as possible. Oh he was shooting a manual film camera so I'm sure he doesnt' even know it yet :)

[SuzyView]

I am Oriental - don't mean to slam my own race - but every wedding I've attended of my relatives and their friends, there are at least 40 people with cameras of many different configurations. They all want the shot. They all want every shot. But I don't need to carry a big stick. They all know I am the one the B&G want to take the pictures because I make it perfectly clear, if they don't say anything, I will. And I'm getting too old to wait all day for people to move over. Get your shots first and let aunt Hilda get her's after you are done. You may look young, so a big stick really isn't a bad idea. Just get a cheap monopod and whenever someone tries to move in front of you, just trip them and send their cameras flying and say sorry, didn't see you, get good insurance in case you get sued. :) ;)

[sapearl]

I like your style Suzy - that's plenty of Chutzpah you have there :lol: .

........ Just get a cheap monopod and whenever someone tries to move in front of you, just trip them and send their cameras flying and say sorry, didn't see you, get good insurance in case you get sued. :) ;)

[picturecrazy]

Being assertive and respectful is the name of the game, as it has been mentioned numerous times in this thread. But sometimes, there are some people who will NOT respect your wishes.

A colleauge has this strategy for those unmanagable people. He would set up a nice, powerful metz flash with an optical slave and point it straight at the crowd behind. It would pretty much blind anyone when they took pictures, and make their photos turn out to be nothing but pure white.

He's only used that strategy twice in the last 8 years... usually people will respect the photographer's wishes.

[PAS Photography]

Ive refused to pose the bridal party for any more photos until the guests got out of my way. I told them they can have their time AFTER I take my photographs.
Typically its never a problem aside from that one occassion. I am very willing to allow guests to shoot their snapshots as long as they are behind my tripod, which I state before I even start to pose the group for formals.

[jscotti]

I did my first wedding yesterday - my neices - and it was a small wedding. I had two P&Sers during the formals, my father-in-law and the father of the groom and they didn't really pose a problem except that often one or two of my subjects would be looking at one of them instead of me. I'd just make a joke about my having either the biggest camera here, so look at me or that mine was the "official camera", and that usually got their attention back to me. I read somewhere (probably on this list) that one way to beat the problem is to have the biggest camera and my 20D with a nice lens and flash sure seemed to make sure that was the case. Once we got all the combos of wedding party/family/B&G around the alter, my other neice (the maid of honor) and I slipped away with the bride into a nice courtyard and got some really nice pictures without any P&Sers in tow.

Now I just need to go through all the pix and find the best & clean them up.....

JIm.

[Claire]

Note to self: be polite but assertive and make sure everyone knows you're the photographer.

[tim]

I was a second shooter at my first wedding on Friday and we had the same problem... only the biggest problem was a man with an SLR and a "big ole flash". I'm sure he was trying to save the bride and groom some money, but he ended up messing up lighting on MANY of the shots. Really really ticked the senior photog off. His solution was to have me and the other assistant step in front of this guy as much as possible. Oh he was shooting a manual film camera so I'm sure he doesnt' even know it yet :)

Personally i'd have pointed out that having him there would spoil the shots for both him and myself, and i'd ask him to leave the area and take photos that I wasn't getting. Also point out the B&G have already paid for their album, and if the photos are bad or people are looking the wrong way you'll tell them why. Take his picture. Ask him to cover areas that you can't get to, with people he knows. If he stays i'd have a quiet word with the mother of the bride, or the groom, or maybe even the bride.

[monter]

hmm well Tim that would have been a much better solution! lol I think the senior photog was just so mad that he wasnt' thinking clearly. Most of the shots he took of the wedding party coming down the aisle were ruined becuase this guy was in the aisle with him firing off his flash "nintey to nothing" I really felt badly for both the photog and the B & G. I mean its' the photogs reputation and their photos.

[Sharyn1983]

So wear a giant sign that says "official photographer" and have a massive assistant named Butch, maybe a sumo wrestler to accidently block some shots. Hey, the wider the better.

[Claire]

So wear a giant sign that says "official photographer" and have a massive assistant named Butch, maybe a sumo wrestler to accidently block some shots. Hey, the wider the better.

I guess this totallly means I have no future whatsoever in wedding photography, being 5"4 and a girl...;) :lol:

[song4themoon]

YOu guys are funny


I am stillw orking on the pics and a, done with the formals. It is pretty sad.. the formals were all guest were still around and I had this previously discussed issue, are pretty messed up. Maybe one person looks in my camera and the other look all elsewhere (not even the same direction)

It isnt until the point were they finally sent the guest to the reception that the formals turned out nice which at this point wasnt with family included anymore, only the couple

[Big Mike]

For you shorter photogs...maybe getting a step ladder or something, to raise you up higher than the crowd. People tend look better when photographed from above anyway.

Being assertive and taking command of the room is definitely a key to good wedding / group photography. It's one of the things I worry about most, as I'm just starting out as a pro. So far, it's never as bad as I imagine it to be...but it's bound to happen sooner or later.

I think the best situation is if you can get the guests to wait until you are done with the shot and then allow then a few seconds to get their snapshots before you change the pose/group. Let them know up front that you will allow them this window and hopefully they will be grateful and stick to it.

I can see where these guests might infuriate the WP...but one harsh comment might be all it takes for 20 people to say "The photographer was a jerk"...word of mouth is huge in this business.

[song4themoon]

Big Mike, I even had a steplader...lol

I think this case was just an extreme case, I havent had it that bad before. We (I AND the bride and groom) told people several times that I am the photographer and I am taking pics now. They didnt bother. They finished taking their pics then moved and did the same for the next pose. So not only did they disrespect me, but also the bride and groom

[sapearl]

Not necessarily so Claire.... my wife is 5'1", and back when we were first married she was a 90lb, size 0, head nurse. She knew her stuff, people LISTENED to her, and DID what they were TOLD to do. Once you show determination and self confidence with your expertise, people will pay attention.

Picture the cute little pussy cat, padding it's quiet way around the room..... until it is offended, arches its back and puffs it's fur up when offended. :lol: And they DO have claws. - Stu

I guess this totallly means I have no future whatsoever in wedding photography, being 5"4 and a girl...;) :lol:

[sapearl]

Mike's suggestion for a step ladder is an excellent idea.

I always carry a small 20" (high) folding ladder, and I always place in the BEST spot for my pictures. I make a small flourish of setting it up, folks don't like to have their knees knocked so they quickly move out of the way. I'm only 5'9", but the extra little elevation does make for a better photograph. - Stu

For you shorter photogs...maybe getting a step ladder or something, to raise you up higher than the crowd. People tend look better when photographed from above anyway.......

[tim]

I'm only 5'6" and people definitely stay out of my way, maybe because i'm quite assertive, confident, and when I get pissed off I don't look like someone you want to mess with ;)

[PIXI_666]

You gave up and sat down until they were finished?
No, that is not a way to show that you are the main photographer! You don't have to be nasty about it but definately be assertive! I would never let anybody get in my way, i did at one of my very first weddings, and by the end of it my husband got so angry at everyone that HE was the assertive one, so i took notes from him and now i am the one that tells people to clear out lol
All you need to let people know is that you are the photographer, you have the responsibility on getting these photo's, you are setting up the photo's, they can take their photo's when you are finished and you will let them know! GENERALLY....people steer clear, but every now and then you get those few people just busting to get in your way! I don't know why though...i really don't understand why they need to take photo's of what the main photog has just taken - they will SEE those photo's, snap shots are not going to turn out the same as the main photogs images....just let them know, you will all get to see these photo's soon so to just give you some space.

:)

Del

[PIXI_666]

BTW...Tim you are as short as me....i didn't think it was possible LOL
Sorry just messin :) but you really are as short as me HAHAHA!

Del

[tim]

BTW...Tim you are as short as me....i didn't think it was possible LOL
Sorry just messin :) but you really are as short as me HAHAHA!

Luckily physical size isn't related to presence or ability to control a crowd. I think I have a pretty good evil stare. Put it this way, i've never had a single problem with people getting in my way, people not doing what I ask, or uncles with cameras bothering me. Well, not from anyone who lived to complain about it ;)

[SuzyView]

I'm 5 ft 2 in and I am definitely not a wallflower in anyway. People tend to move over for me as well, even without a stick :) I'm pretty LOUD and people tend to listen. Been a teacher of little children for so long, I just tell people to grow up and move over. I am always nice first, then I get a little upset and then people just don't want to mess with me. Get some voice training, or a bull-horn. :)

[song4themoon]

I guess I am too nice. I am too afraid to start a fight by being to "demanding" I ask friendly but I dont get mad openly. I should probably work on that.

However this wedding seemed to be an extreme case. I have never seen people that disrespective before so I hope this wont happen all to often, but I better be prepared.

[Sharyn1983]

Like I posted in the other thread. Start out on one good foot. Find a well connected family member and make a friend. aunts and uncles may pretend to not hear you. But get a family member... they always, always listen to family. Several photographers use a groomsman or usher or someone in the wedding party to be their assertive one. It makes things way easier.

[tim]

Having the biggest camera in the room is highly underrated, as are confusing attachments that people don't understand. A lightsphere is great for that, since it looks strange and doesn't make sense even to me. I use a camera with a battery grip, bracket, and a small soft box as a diffuser.

[Arnie1]

....as are confusing attachments that people don't understand. A lightsphere is great for that.

I'd certainly be frightened of getting too close to a lightsphere:)

[sapearl]

Excellent suggestion Sharyn - family allies are the best work assistants that you can have. Not only can they help point out the proper people for the shots, but they can often "run interference" against those folks interferring with your shots ;) They also make excellent Border Collies for herding the people into position. :lol: - Stu

....... But get a family member... they always, always listen to family. Several photographers use a groomsman or usher or someone in the wedding party to be their assertive one. It makes things way easier.

[SuzyView]

I'd certainly be frightened of getting too close to a lightsphere

Most people aren't scared, just laughing hysterically. What's that?

[Arnie1]

....and you can keep your pet goldfish in it.

[tim]

....and you can keep your pet goldfish in it.

Nah, they fall off too often, and bounce across the floor making a heck of a noise at the least appropriate time.

[saravrose]

I was hired to take some pictures of a couple of kids for Easter a few months back.. got all set-up the mom had them looking all pretty... as soon as I started shooting the mother pulls out a 2mp POS Kodak that made a buzzing sound because it had to 'warm up' before snapping a picture... that was the shortest shoot that I have ever done.

sari

[sapearl]

I'm sure my goldfish wouldn't be too pleased with the acrobatics then.....:lol:

Nah, they fall off too often, and bounce across the floor making a heck of a noise at the least appropriate time.