D70 vs 20d. No contest?

[RianFlynn]

To me it seams obvious.


The 20D dominates the D70. They arent even in the same price bracket. The girl I love is selling her d70s to upgrade to a 20d and she is taking a lot of crap from nikon users telling her that she is dumb! We canon users are much nicer people. haha

She wants a faster FPS
To be able to crop and still get away with 20x30 prints
Faster auto focus
Better performance in lower light
and to share lenses with me (when mine actually show up)

I would love to know what you guys think.

Yours,
Ryan Flynn

[jj1987]

I dont think you can get 20x30 cropped prints reliably from a 20d. Sometimes yes, but all the time no. Faster AF I dont think its true. The other reasons are all valid points.

[RianFlynn]

I dont think you can get 20x30 cropped prints reliably from a 20d. Sometimes yes, but all the time no. Faster AF I dont think its true. The other reasons are all valid points.

I have had nothing but success with 20x30 prints from my 30D. I have used her D70 and its actually painful to get it focus on what I want. As i understand the 20d has more focus points than the d70.

Talk to you soon!
Ryan

[Steve Parr]

My brother shot Canon and Nikon film cameras for years. When he decided to buy a digital SLR, he went with a D200.

I don't know what the Hell he was thinking. I mean, it's gonna' ruin Christmas...

[20DNewbie]

she is taking a lot of crap from nikon users telling her that she is dumb! We canon users are much nicer people. haha
I would love to know what you guys think.

LOL, they're just bitter.

[red hot sheep]

All I can say is I had to use a Nikon d70 to try out a sigma 24-70mm in a camera shop, and even in the shop (fairly good light), it couldn't focus at all.

[jj1987]

I have had nothing but success with 20x30 prints from my 30D.
Cropped ;)

I have no doubt 20x30 is possible with a 30d because I've done it several times, however I'd hate to try cropping, especially when there isnt top quality L glass attatched to the front.

[blue_max]

Within reason, the size doesn't matter too much. How good it will look, is all down to how well the shot was taken. A good sharp, well exposed image, will scale very successfully. In reality, you can get a good idea by enlarging it in photoshop and viewing it at 100% of the final size. Remember to stand back a bit as you would not be viewing it from a few inches away. Generally, most images enlarge better than you would expect.

The Canon advantage is that it has very highly regarded noise reduction.

I was thinking about Nikon or Canon, when I bought my camera. I ended up buying a second hand one off a friend. Had it been Nikon, I would no doubt be very happy. However, I have no regrets now and because of my investment in Canon products, I will be a Canon customer for a long time.

The weak link in moderm digital slr's is usually the operator!

Graham

[twalker294]

The D70 and 20D are both excellent cameras. The Nikon has a little more noise but other than that the picture quality is very similar. I've never owned a Nikon SLR so I can't speak to the usability factor but the D70 is no slouch.

Buy what you want and be happy. This religious war between Nikon and Canon users is just stupid. Both cameras are fantastic -- to each his own.

[RianFlynn]

Im not down playing the nikon as a nikon. Im just talking about a camera's with an $600 difference in price. Maybe if we were comparing the rebel to the d70 the canon vs nikon battle could ensue...

I dont know... it just seems pretty simple to me. Oh well. Thanks for the help guys.

Ryan

[steved110]

The 20d is some ways ahead of the Nikon D70s, but Nikon has jumped ahead with the D200 a bit.
But they show no sign of going full-frame, and I'm already invested in Canon - so I won't be jumping ship. Canon would have to upset me a lot before I'd even consider switching.
I can remember when I was making my choice of what film SLR system to go with, for Af in the early 90's it was either minolta or canon. At that time Nikon treated AF like a toy for children, not a tool for real photography. That's probably why they still haven't really caught up!

[adas]

D70 vs 20D? Hmm, I wouldn't even trade my XT for the D70. A friend has the D70s and the AF is pretty slow in low light compared to the XT, although I'm not sure of accuracy. Image quality isn't impressing, noisier at high iso and the strange blooming effect visible like an ufo starship on glaring lights.

[ScottE]

The 20D dominates the D70. They arent even in the same price bracket. The girl I love is selling her d70s to upgrade to a 20d and she is taking a lot of crap from nikon users telling her that she is dumb! We canon users are much nicer people. haha
If she already had a bunch of Nikon lenses, wouldn't it be easier to just get a D200 instead of a 20D and new lenses?

I wouldn't buy a Nikon system if it was my first camera purchase, but if I had a few good Nikon lenses I would think twice before starting my lens collection all over.

[Spearin]

I have a 20D and I have used the D70 on a few occasions. I always thought that the D70 is more comparable to the 350D rather than the 20D... which would probably be comparable to the D100 (even though I haven't used it or know much about it).

[Transonic]

It is no contest.

When I first got my D70 it was competing neck & neck with the 10D. At that time I thought it was a fare comparison and had a fighting chance. But once the 20D came out I shut my mouth cuz I knew there was no comparison... then I made the move to Canon LOL. ;)

[prep]

The D70 has horrid eronomics, and is clearly higher noise, even visible is the shadows of daylight shots :(

Plus EF lenses are in many cases significantly better than the equivalent Nikors. I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.

[Steve Parr]

The D70 has horrid eronomics

To be fair, that's largely subjective...

I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.

LOL!!

Based on what??

[Future Blues]

The D70 has horrid eronomics, and is clearly higher noise, even visible is the shadows of daylight shots :(

Plus EF lenses are in many cases significantly better than the equivalent Nikors. I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.

Are you serious?

While I can't comment on the D70 because I haven't used it extensively, I do know that Nikon lenses tend to outresolve their Canon counterparts as far as sharpness and contrast is concerned. Some of the L lenses produce more beautiful images (arguably) because of Canon's creative use of non-standard glass elements, but really the two lense systems are neck and neck.

Camera-wise, I own and shoot exclusively with a Canon 20D but if I was buying a camera right now, I'd be seriously looking at the Nikon D200 over the 30D, I'll tell you that much. It's a fantastic camera with hands-down better erganomics than the 20/30D.

From my own experience, Nikon shooters are less vocal about what they do with their equipment, which is why you don't hear that much about Nikon systems very often.

[Lord_Malone]

To me it seams obvious.


The 20D dominates the D70. They arent even in the same price bracket. The girl I love is selling her d70s to upgrade to a 20d and she is taking a lot of crap from nikon users telling her that she is dumb! We canon users are much nicer people. haha

She wants a faster FPS
To be able to crop and still get away with 20x30 prints
Faster auto focus
Better performance in lower light
and to share lenses with me (when mine actually show up)

I would love to know what you guys think.

Yours,
Ryan Flynn

From my experience, die-hard Nikon users have little-man complex issue.

[delhi]

From my experience, die-hard Nikon users have little-man complex issue.


LOL!!!

If one is considering the D200, then might as well get the Alpha A100 from Sony. Shares the same CCD but has lots of features that the Nikon and even Canon don't.

[RianFlynn]

The D70 has horrid eronomics, and is clearly higher noise, even visible is the shadows of daylight shots :(

Plus EF lenses are in many cases significantly better than the equivalent Nikors. I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.


Nikon wont be in business much longer? haha I dont know man... what makes you say that?

Ryan

[jj1987]

I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.
ROFL!!!!

[jbkalla]

...I also suspect that Nikon won't be in the photo biz for much longer.

I heard Dell is getting out of the PC business... Too much competition from Sony...







Sorry! Just had to add my .02! :-)

[FlashZebra]

I would love to know what you guys think.
I think this is a trivial post mostly pandering to brand zelots.

Enjoy! Lon

[bauerman]

The D70 and the 20D were never meant to compete with each other - so saying that the 20D blows away the D70 is not much more than stating the obvious to me. The D70 was originally released to complete with the original Digital Rebel (300D). Nikon did not really "join the game" with respect to the 20D/30D until they realeased the D200. Now they actually have a model to compete in that category.

Nikon, for some reason, did not update the D100 FOREVER and in the meantime Canon sold about a bajillion 20D's. They seem a little "slow to market" if you ask me.

[StealthLude]

Im a Canon shooter, but Nikon aint going anywhere man...

Too many loyal nikon shooters with large investments in lenses and gear...

[equetefue]

This is my first post. Currently I'm selling all my Nikon gear so I can switch to Canon. I have a D70s, the new 18-200VR lens and a 50 f1.8, Also used to have a 80-200 2.8 and a 120-300 2.8.

I love nikon glass, the cameras ergonomics and GUI, but the gap between the D70s and the D200 is too big and if you are like me and want to upgrade is hard to validate a $800 diference for a D200 that although is a great camera (noise is very evident). For such reason I'm switching. I belive the 30d is best bang for the money in the price range.

Nikon needs to make a camera to compete against the 30D or address the noise on the D200.

This is my .02cents and is coming from a Nikon user switching to Canon

[lakiluno]

welcome!

I have to say though, a Canon user switching to Nikon would probably get similar flak.

As for nikon going out of business...


hah!!!!

[RianFlynn]

This is my first post. Currently I'm selling all my Nikon gear so I can switch to Canon. I have a D70s, the new 18-200VR lens and a 50 f1.8, Also used to have a 80-200 2.8 and a 120-300 2.8.

I love nikon glass, the cameras ergonomics and GUI, but the gap between the D70s and the D200 is too big and if you are like me and want to upgrade is hard to validate a $800 diference for a D200 that although is a great camera (noise is very evident). For such reason I'm switching. I belive the 30d is best bang for the money in the price range.

Nikon needs to make a camera to compete against the 30D or address the noise on the D200.

This is my .02cents and is coming from a Nikon user switching to Canon

That was me 2 weeks ago. I actually took back the d200 and got the 30d. I am very happy.

Ryan

[303villain]

I was in the same boat too. i was tempted to go with a D200, but at the time the 30D was just out, and D200s were still like finding a needle in a haystack. I happened to find one, used it for a day, and didnt much care for the noise, and the pricetag. I found a 20D brand new for super cheap and im glad i made the decision i did. i wish i would have waited for a 30, but for the price i cant complain. Eventually I'll get another body and use the 20 as a backup, but not anytme soon at all.

This was after i sold my E-500 and several lenses. Dont even get me started on olympus. what good is a camera that CANT be used at anything above iso 200?!

[equetefue]

what lens should I get to get me started.

Kit lens sucks compare to the Nikon 18-70 don't it ?

[J Tavendale]

Smart girl! I changed from a D70 to a 20D and wouldn't hesitate to do it all over again. Hell, I'd take the 300D/Rebel over the D70.

[RianFlynn]

what lens should I get to get me started.

Kit lens sucks compare to the Nikon 18-70 don't it ?

Actually I have had a lot of luck with the kit lens (18-55 3.5)

Here is a shot with it and my 30d:

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/DrRyanFlynn/salesmall/64.jpg

[doughboy]

Wow, why so much hate for the D70?

The D70 was released earlier, is more affordable, and has more noise at similar ISO. However, it is a fine camera for someone getting into photography.

If I had to start all over and had to choose b/t a D70 and a Rebel XT, I'd go with the D70 hands down. Just the ergonomics alone is worth the choice.

*flame suit on*

[RianFlynn]

Wow, why so much hate for the D70?

The D70 was released earlier, is more affordable, and has more noise at similar ISO. However, it is a fine camera for someone getting into photography.

If I had to start all over and had to choose b/t a D70 and a Rebel XT, I'd go with the D70 hands down. Just the ergonomics alone is worth the choice.

*flame suit on*


Haha To be honest, I probably would as well. The rebel just doesnt feel good in ones hands.

But I am talking about camera to camera... which is better 20d or d70 regardless of price. Its no contest.

*gets ready for the hate mail*

Rian

[misspix]

I'm new to this forum, but if I wasn't convinced that the 20d was the right camera for me, I am now:lol:
Currently pacing, awaiting the arrival of my new best friend! Sigh, only the kit lense for now, but as soon as I get some room back on that card;) it's a sigma 18-200! and a super wide angle, and maybe a lensbaby....

[Direktor]

Being a first-time DSLR buyer, but a long time high-definition video shooter (think $100k video cameras), I chose Canon because I think the latest CMOS sensors beat CCDs hands down.

Directors of Photography in the film business dislike video (and sometimes, by extension high-def video) because of how poorly video CCDs (even the highest end ones) lack latitude and grace in overexposure compared to negative film. There's other issues of course, but that's a biggie.

Canon's CMOS sensors, to me, handle overexposure in a much more filmic way. They also appear to have more latitude, but that's just my eye and I could very well be wrong.

(High-end HD cameras are just now starting to venture into super hi-res CMOS sensors and RAW workflows. It's an amazing time currently in that end of the pool)

[prep]

Nikon wont be in business much longer? haha I dont know man... what makes you say that?

Ryan

Just a feeling that they are in the terminal trash your customers phase. I have come across several pros whos employer has hada a gut full of the non-service and run around. Now this MAY be local to oz, but it seems to be world wide.

Mitsubishi are totally ruthless when it come to chopping `underperforming' parts of their empire and I have a feeling thing will be happening in a few years.

Down the track I see Canon, Fugi and Sony as the DSLR vendors who survive, with Sony,
Samsung, and Nokia for P&S stuff.

Oh, and Leica, because there are people who will always buy a Leica because it si a Leica,

[m3incorp]

Haven't we always said that 90% of it, is the person behind the camera. Aren't the D70 and D70s slight different versions with each having its own advantages, sort of like the XT and the 20D. I know people with the D70 who doesn't like the D70s. I won't knock either, because the people that I know that shoot with the D70 turn out some great pictures.

[basroil]

20d would be better hands down, who wants to buy a lot of expensive lenses when you can borrow them easily. and of course, several of the useful nikon lenses are more expensive/offer less than the canon counterparts (70-200 in nikon lacks mode 2, no usm, fake ftm, no limiter; 300 2.8 has no mode 2, comes with soft case, and costs $600 more)

nikon really doesn't have any camera other than the d70, d100, d200 in the non-pro market (and d2x doesn't come close to a nice 1dmkiin, lacks true 8fps shooting rate and has a substancially weaker af system)

[DavidEB]

I like my canon, I wouldn't switch. I'm fond of its high ISO performance, AF system, and some of the lenses are untouchable.

But let's be fair. Nikon has some fine features. Nikon speedlights are more consistent and fool-proof than Canon's (just look at POTN's flash section to see how many "my pics are underexposed...." threads there are). Nikon's wide-angle lenses are superior. Some of their primes are legendary. While many of you may like the 20D ergonomics, it amazes me how canon can have such different interfaces for the XT, 20D/30D/5D, and 1D lines -- each upgrade is a learning experience. The Nikons seem more consistent.

Thankfully, Nikon gives Canon a run for their money. If not, there wouldn't be any more development.

[delhi]

Thankfully, Nikon gives Canon a run for their money. If not, there wouldn't be any more development.

I thought it was the opposite. Nikon was tops for a long while and then Canon gave it a run for the money back in the 80s and now surpassed it (in sales). I wonder if Nikon guys think the vice versa. Hmm.....

[jauiek]

Interesting thread kind of redundant topic though. Anyway, this is my first post here. I am currently a Nikon user and I own a D70 who is considering switching to Canon. I do not want to flip flop back and forth because it is pricey for one and just not satisfying when marketing always makes you always want the next greatest thing... it is so hard to feel content. I can say from experience that I do not notice any difference between Nikon's D70 and Canons 20D's image quality... but I do notice a difference bettween a poor photographer vs. a stronger one. I am currently a 2nd year photography student and on a weekly if not sometimes daily basis I see many 8x10 prints handed in by my classmates. Consistently the weaker students produce crap and the stronger ones good images. This doesn't even have to do with what camera or even lens was used.

Nikons d70 is equal to the 20d IMO....neither of them are pro cameras so I have a hard time believing one company would make such a superior product. However the D200 is more of an upgrade from the d70 than the 20d is to the 30d. The 30d gives the d200 a run for its money. It is interesting how the 30d still uses the same sensor as the 20d (some would say Canons older technology) and it holds it own over the new D200. This to me is proof that Canon is ahead of Nikon technology-wise but that always changes. Yes the Nikon D200 has noise issues in low light especially and I despise the focus speed on the D70. I personally have not tried a 20d or 30d (although I have used a 5d with a 70-200 2.8 :)--very nice) and if the 20d focuses smoother than my D70 I will make the switch and stay there (unless Canon starts making their cameras out of cardboard or something like that) I am personally fed up with Nikon not getting their act together (which I can only assume this) but at the same time I am tired of people saying something is better just because it is the one they own. I am not saying this is the case here but I would love it if people would find out for themselves personally what works for them neither are bad cameras.

[basroil]

Nikons d70 is equal to the 20d IMO....neither of them are pro cameras so I have a hard time believing one company would make such a superior product. However the D200 is more of an upgrade from the d70 than the 20d is to the 30d. The 30d gives the d200 a run for its money.

comparing the d70 to a 20d and 30d to a d200 is a bit unfair there. 20d is like the early model of the d70, and 30d is like the newer model (there are two varients as someone mentioned earlier), and d50 is like the rebel xt (minus 2mp on all three nikons). the closest thing to a d200 canon has would be the 5d. of course, like you said, the photographer is a major part of any picture, so unless you know why you want one camera over the other, either camera will do. hell, there was a guy here who bought a 1ds mk ii and wanted to know how to get it on full auto :rolleyes:

for the mark, canon is great if you know why you want it, and i've only seen a few professionals using nikon stuff in my area (check my pictures of the paparazzi, only 1 of the 5 had nikon). and you can't go wrong with big white lenses to make you stand out more (unless you're willing to duct tape your lens black :rolleyes:)

[jauiek]

While it is unfair to compare them I personally as a nikon user do not even see much advantage to a D200 over a 30d...I would buy a 30d. I almost think it is unfair to compare the 5d to the d200 in ways...but perhaps I am just being dumb and I haven't tried them both to say. However, I think this is part of the problem there are no exact comparisions which makes this a little tough to do. From my experience I still personally cannot notice a difference in image quality between a D70 and a 20d from what I've seen and to me that is what matters most..

[dpastern]

I thought it was the opposite. Nikon was tops for a long while and then Canon gave it a run for the money back in the 80s and now surpassed it (in sales). I wonder if Nikon guys think the vice versa. Hmm.....

I'd wholly agree here. With the advent of the EOS system, AF and newly styled curvacious bodies, Canon pulled ahead, and stayed ahead. Canon's AF system is head and shoulders above Nikons. The D70s by all accounts is a very nice camera. The handling/ergonomics are personal things, what suits one person may not suit another and vice versa. Why does everyone go on about the noise issue? Does everyone only shoot at ISO 800 and above all of the time? I think not. I think you'll find that noise at ISO 400 and below is pretty damn well similar between the Nikon and Canon DSLRs.

Nikon is better (imho) in these areas:

Flash and flash metering
normal non flash metering

Canon is better (imho) in these areas:

AF
Ergonomics (for me at least)

They're pretty damn equal in lenses and accessories and build quality

Price? Nikon has some great bargains going - D50s for less than a grand in Australia, with a standard lens. Where's Canon's reply? The 350D for near $500 more.

As to Nikon going under, anything is possible. If the parent company decides that sales are dropping to the point that R&D expenditure isn't warranted, then Nikon won't do much R&D and new models will be rare and few and far between. That will definitely lead potential customers into deciding on Canon gear, resulting in a further loss of sales. Anything can happen. How many people would have said 5 years ago that Minolta would leave the camera business? Pentax is hanging on by a breath, but I predict Pentax will leave the game within the next 2 years. Anything can happen, and usually does.

In the end, the camera doesn't mean too much, it's HOW you use it.

Dave