WATCH OUT FOR GATEWAY

[andrew1]

RECENTLY PURCHASED 10D FROM GATEWAY.

I RECEIVED THE BODY AND ALL WAS FINE TILL I INQUIRED REGARDING A PRICE MATCH TO DELL. THEY REFUSED & WHEN I REQUESTED AN RETURN AUTHORIZATION # I WAS INFORMED THERE WOULD BE AN $150.00 RESTOCKING.

I TOLD THEM THEIR ETHICS WERE QUESTIONABLE & THEIR SUPERVISORS ARE NO HELP.

I CERTAINALLY WILL NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING ELSE FROM GATEWAY.

ANDREW

[robertwgross]

This sounds fine. You ordered a camera. They shipped the camera, and you got it, and it was not defective. You had buyer's remorse and wanted to return it, so they told you of their restocking fee. That much sounds fair.

Price matching to anybody else was not part of the original order. That sounds fair also.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

I fear I'm going to agree with Bob on this one. The time to pin down Gateway on the price-matching policy was before you made your purchase.

Sorry.

Tom

[bluebomberx]

Gateway offers the same 10% sales as Dell. If they happen to have another really soon, you can call them on it. Other than that, they delivered what you ordered and you're asking for something they didn't offer.

[fox1]

>> I WAS INFORMED THERE WOULD BE AN $150.00 RESTOCKING.

[David Wild]

Even in the UK you have no **right** to return something if it has been supplied as you ordered it. Marks & Spencer are renowned for being generous about this, but it still isn't a right.

[iwatkins]

It is a right is you do it via mail order, i.e. under the Distance Selling Rules in the UK. You are within your rights to return a product for *any* reason within (IIRC) seven days of receiving the product. Any reason can include "Don't like the colour" etc.

Shop bought items are totally different. There you have no real rights unless the item is defective or not fit for purpose.

Cheers

Ian

[Belmondo]

I believe that most people in the U.S. are accustomed to re-stocking fees as a usual and customary cost of doing business, especially with online and mail-order sellers. Some companies, however, do have draconian policies regarding returns, and they’re best avoided whenever possible. There are some that would have wanted a lot more than 10%.

Although I’ve never worked in retail, I’ve always tried to be reasonably sympathetic to their problems. In the case of something like your camera that is being returned ‘without cause’ (i.e. defects, etc), they are being asked to absorb the cost of labor and materials for packing it up, receiving it back into stock, the handling, the processing of paperwork, etc.. I’m assuming you paid the shipping costs, so I’ll leave that out of my argument. Then, their money has been tied up in the camera during the time they’ve shipped it out, waited for you to see whether or not you like it, and then shipped it back. In addition to that, there’s the sad reality that often times these things don’t come back in ‘like-new- condition, and they have to absorb a loss when it comes time to sell that item again. I’m not suggesting that would be the case in every instance, but it probably happens often enough that they feel the re-stocking fee covers the overall average cost of accepting returned items; certainly it avoids the argument with any individual purchaser as to what the condition of an item was when he sent it back.

I would think that the government-imposed policy prohibiting such fees is just another reason some items are more expensive in the U.K. than here.

Ultimately, there is a burden on the purchaser to research the item being purchased before ordering. ‘Colour’ is not sufficient excuse for sending a camera back---they’re all black. Nor should price be a legitimate reason for returning it. The buyer has every opportunity to research price before placing the order in the first place, and has the obligation to himself to do so.

On the other hand, $150 seems somewhat excessive if the camera is still unused, it its original packaging and is undamaged. Sometimes, it’s just a matter of polishing your story and taking another run at it with Gateway. My experience with them is that they’re a pretty good company to deal with. They are, however, a very large bureaucracy, and as such, require that you keep talking to people until you find the right one.

Good luck. I’m sorry to hear about your unhappy experience with American business practices.

Tom

[MarkH]

So what's the story? Do you buy first then shop around?

This is one of the stupidest things I have read.

If the box has been opened then Gateway is surely morally obliged to resell it at a discount, so why shouldn't they charge $150 restocking fee to cover that?

I feel sorry for Gateway here, it can't be easy dealing with people this stupid.

When I bought my 10D I had already checked around to see how it was priced elsewhere. If I had found a better price later I would have just lived with it. I don't buy things, return them, buy them somewhere else, it's not fair on retailers to be messed around like that.

My sympathy for Andrew1 here is hovering around 0%.

[Belmondo]

markh wrote:
This is one of the stupidest things I have read.




Whoah! Tact isn't really your strong suit, is it?

I do agree with you to the extent that it is something of a bad rap on Gateway, however.

[robertwgross]

I was working in another industry, and we sold our product that cost roughly US$10K. Some customers would order the product and receive it. Then they would put it into a comparison lab setup alongside two or three products from the competitors. When they figured out which one they liked the best, they would ship the others back and demand their money back from them.

It is for situations like this that the restocking fee terms of the purchase agreement are important. Very few consumers read the purchase agreement in advance.

A completely different situation would have been if they told us up front that they were going to do a comparison. Then we could have shipped a "demonstrator" unit that was slightly used already. They could test on that and return it to us and there was no loss of "A stock" status. Once a product has been sold, then if it comes back it becomes "B stock" and cannot be legitimately sold as "new". That "B stock" is often sold at a further discount as "refurbished", and that is what the restocking fee is intended to pay for.

---Bob Gross---

[khenn]

Here's my story:

I talked with a salesman from Gateway who gave me a decent price, but I still wasn't sure. Actually, I had to pass it by the Boss (wife) first. So, the salesman said that he would temporarily put one on hold for me until I called back and confirmed. I got off the phone with him and in the mean time purchased one from Dell instead (10% off and free shipping). I immediately called him back to cancel the order and left a message on his voicemail (which he told me to do if I couldn't reach him).

I received my 10D from Dell within about 7 days, and two days later I received another one from Gateway. I was not required to sign for it, so I took it to UPS and refused it. They sent it back and two weeks later I received another one. That one was refused immediately. I called Gateway to find out what was going on. They had no record of the second camera ever being shipped. :-( Darn, I could have had a free camera. A month later i received a bill from Gateway for the camera, then I had to call again to get that straightened out.

I've never liked Gateway anyhow, and this sure didn't add any browny points for them.

[samdring]

That's what I really love about Jessops here in the UK. They might charge over the odds compared with on-line only companies but they have changed a lens (not lense as the ...... say) 3 times for me just cos I didnt feel it was 'spot on ' for me. I moved from Canon to Sigma to Canon L at no cost at all other than the difference in salling price.

Wonderful and unbeatable.

[fox1]

samdring wrote:
That's what I really love about Jessops here in the UK.
Wonderful and unbeatable.

Jessops give a 12 month warranty on used equipment.

You can browse their used range and ask to see your
'choice' at your local branch before purchase.

The problem is it takes 2 weeks to arrive at your local
branch!

I tired of waiting and chose to purchase a lens on the spot (Free Shipping) purely without inspection - safe in the knowledge that Jessops would either change or refund...

That lens arrived next morning and the one I wanted to inspect? Forget it... :-(

[photography By Evangelos]

You know in this day and age no one in the US should charge a restocking fee at all. If you are not happy with a product you should have 30 Days and if you do not like it you should be able to return it with no restocking fees at all. The restocking fee is the way to have them stop you form retuning the items you got form them in the first place. Me I do not buy from places that have restocking fees the fees are BULL CRAP all the way. I stopped buying for the large electronics chain with the work BEST they have a restocking fee on all items if you do not get the same item. So I now buy for Circuit City the do not have a restocking fee at all. I got a lap top form Circuit city and did not like it and got an other lap top NO RESTOCKING FEE and I had 30 days to try it out. This is the way it should be if you do not like the camera and want to save so $ Green $ they should give you a RMA # number and you should have to pay for the shipping and no restocking fees. I ordered a desktop form Gateway and waited for 2 months and they did not ship it so I canceled the order and they gave me the run around. I went to Dell and got my system in 8 Days from the order date I ordered it. Restocking fees what crap JUST SAY NO TO RESTOCKING FEES!!!!!

[Belmondo]

photography by evangelos wrote:I got a lap top form Circuit city and did not like it and got an other lap top NO RESTOCKING FEE and I had 30 days to try it out.

Let me see if I have this right. You'd rather deal with a company that will allow a product to be used for thirty days and then returned without question for any reason the customer deems appropriate. Right?


Then, when you buy something from that same company, you will likely insist on it being brand new, unused, and in a sealed carton/package? Right?

---- or will you be willing to buy something that has obviously been used and returned----perhaps for as long as 30 days?

Maybe, but certainly not at full price.

What, then, do you expect the retailer to do with these used items? Sell them to someone else as new? Or do the honest thing and sell them as used for pennies on the dollar?

I think you're expecting too much.

To be certain, there are times when a restocking fee is not appropriate, but in balance, it's a much more reasonable policy than your irrational argument of a fundamental right to use brand new merchandise and return it without challenge.

If you can convince me that you're willing to buy used merchandise as new that's been used for a month and returned, then your position is perhaps a bit more defensible. But really, you can't have it both ways


Tom

[Dans_D60]

It’s all about third-grade simple math. Either an organization has sufficient profit margin built into is selling model to take a hit on perfectly good equipment but returned for no reason or unethical to the point that they will sell used equipment as new. On the other hand, it is perfectly acceptable to me if an organization discounts equipment to the point they have no option but to charge a reasonable restocking fee. Personally I choose companies who are upfront and honest. I too have purchased what is called “new” later to find out it was a used returned item.

I’m not one who expects something for nothing. Gateway is a huge discount distribution engine and if they want to charge a fee for good returned items than so be it. If you don’t like it, shop somewhere else. Ahhh capitalism does work after all!
Dan

[lightandlife]

Yeah, one has to see both sides. I feel sorry for shop keepers who are trying to survive. American shops have a very generous return policy--which is good for business.

In other countries, once you pay and step outside the store, there is no returning of anything. Period.

Not in Hong Kong or China. Not in most Asian countries. I have not tried to return things in Europe, but I am sure their return policy is not as generous as that in the US.

I would be happy to pay restocking charge if it was my mistake and I do not want to get stuck with a good I mistakenly ordered.

Men, we live in a good country. Count your blessings.

[robertwgross]

Tom, you might be getting tough on the lad.

He has a right to go do business with whichever company he wants to. If those companies are the ones that never charge restocking fees, then fine.

On the other hand, remind me never to go to those stores to purchase something as new when he had already returned the same thing. There is too much chance that the returned unit will be placed back into a box and shrinkwrap re-applied just in time for me to arrive.

Of all of the photo gear that I have purchased over the years, about 40% is from one local pro camera shop. About another 40% is from B&H, and the rest would fall to Adorama and then the lesser players. I never get hit with restocking fees because I do my research in advance, then purchase the product, then take it home and read the damned manual, and only then do I begin to use it. As a result, I tend not to be surprised by errors of stupidity very much.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

robertwgross wrote:
Tom, you might be getting tough on the lad.

He has a right to go do business with whichever company he wants to. If those companies are the ones that never charge restocking fees, then fine.

You're right, Bob. I really couldn't agree more. I'm just trying to say that it isn't reasonable to blast Gateway and Best Buy because they charge a re-stocking fee. The choice is (and has always been) to take one's business elsewhere if he doesn't like their policies.

But I would really like an answer to my (admittedly rhetorical) question: "Would you make a major purchase---say, a laptop computer or a digital SLR camera---knowing there was a possibility the exact one you are purchasing was previously sold and used for thirty days, then returned, repacked, and put back on the shelf?" I'm sure the answer would be a clear and resounding "NO."

I'm frankly a little tired of people abusing the power of 'consumerism' to take advantage of retailers. Ultimately, we all end up bearing the cost of their abuse.

I don't necessarily mean to single this fellow out---if his story is true, then he really should stay after Gateway until he get some satisfaction. If, on the other hand, it's a case that he really did order the camera and thinks he can save $150 after the fact by fabricating an implausible story, then he's morally and legally wrong, and he's being really unfair in trying to damage Gateway by attacking their return policies. He should have become familiar with them before making the purchase.

[UK_Terry]

I think you lost this one Andrew1

[defordphoto]

Pretty simple here: Buyer beware. Gateway owes Andrew nothing. Their policies are pretty straightforward and you NEVER negotiate price AFTER the sale!

Sorry Andrew, you definitely lose this one. Hard lesson learned. Best way to forget about all this? Take that awesome, new 10D and shoot some pictures and this fiasco will be long forgotten. You now have an awesome camera. Enjoy and don't wallow about a measily 10% faux pas.

[robertwgross]

belmondo wrote:
But I would really like an answer to my (admittedly rhetorical) question: "Would you make a major purchase---say, a laptop computer or a digital SLR camera---knowing there was a possibility the exact one you are purchasing was previously sold and used for thirty days, then returned, repacked, and put back on the shelf?" I'm sure the answer would be a clear and resounding "NO."


In the area where I live, there is a chain of large electronics stores that has a very generous policy about unlimited returns of most products. If a product has been returned to them, they have their "QA" department look it over, try to get it back into the original package, apply shrinkwrap, and then paste on a sticker that says that it was inspected by QA and it is intact. Then they place it back on the shelf for some unsuspecting customer to come along.

I would not buy that crap if my life depended on it. First of all, if the original purchaser didn't like it, there is a good chance that it might simply be defective. There is a good chance that it works, but it's documentation is so poor that it seems to be defective. There is a good chance that parts of the documentation or other pieces are missing.

So, that is just my own quiet statement to those stores. In contrast, if they have the right product that I want, and if the package is factory-sealed, then I might buy it.

---B.G.---

[Doug Rowan]

I worked for Sears in their Computer Dept. They have a 30 day price matching policy. If you buy it from them & within 30 days the exact same item is advertized anywhere (Internet, sales flyers from Best Buy, etc.), you bring in the proof & instantly get refunded the difference. Some people just brought in the AD's & got it from Sears at the other sellers price due to their policy & guarantee). If Gateway chooses not to have such a policy, too bad. You should have done your research first.

Sears also has a instant money-back guarantee. I can't count on my fingers & toes combined, the times somebody would bring in a whole computer system stuffed in the original box & walk away with their money in hand. On the sales floor, nobody has time to open, set-up & verify every system is in working order. When it came time to set the system up (on the discounted shelf) we would find that the customers had removed the RAM, CPU and other parts & walked away clean. Thus, Sears lost due to not charging a restocking fee.

I also know for a fact that Best Buy changed their policy on hardware due to the fact that gamers & such would buy a video card & when they found it wouldn't "overclock" to the level they wanted, they would return it for another (& another & another) until they found one that would. Despite that, I would bet that anyone walking into a Best Buy today will find opened-box specials on at least 2-3 video cards on their shelves. (I was at the local one yesterday & there were 5 video cards discounted).

[dbarthel]

In general, you will be nuch better off dealing with a camera dealer than either Gateway or Dell. Believe me, Dell is no saint either, especially for computer support. I give my mail order $$ to B&H and have over the years. Restocking charge -$0.00 for any reason. All you lose is shipping. Plus, you can deal with knowledgable people over the phone. OTOH, I don't think I'd buy a computer from B&H.

Dan

[IndyJeff]

robertwgross wrote:
I was working in another industry, and we sold our product that cost roughly US$10K. Some customers would order the product and receive it. Then they would put it into a comparison lab setup alongside two or three products from the competitors. When they figured out which one they liked the best, they would ship the others back and demand their money back from them.

It is for situations like this that the restocking fee terms of the purchase agreement are important. Very few consumers read the purchase agreement in advance.

A completely different situation would have been if they told us up front that they were going to do a comparison. Then we could have shipped a "demonstrator" unit that was slightly used already. They could test on that and return it to us and there was no loss of "A stock" status. Once a product has been sold, then if it comes back it becomes "B stock" and cannot be legitimately sold as "new". That "B stock" is often sold at a further discount as "refurbished", and that is what the restocking fee is intended to pay for.

---Bob Gross---

I went to Lowes to buy a riding lawnmower a few years back. It was actually at the beginning of fall and they had some still in stock. I got one that listed for around $1070 but, my price was $890. The guy who helped me get it on the trailer told me that because of the end of the season and the fact that it had been marked as a returned item was the reason for the good discount. It still had the factory warranty that was good. The guy told me you would be surprised how many riding lawnmowers people buy and then return with a day or two. They say it doesn't work right or it isn't big enough. He said one guy even said his wife didn't like the green color LOL. In reality there was nothing wrong with the mower it was just they ahd a big patch of grass or their big yard got a little too high for their push mower.

p.s. I love my Yard Machine btw.

[JABACo]

Ok guys. While I totally agree with all of you, I think Andrew has gotten the point. The poor guy hasn't posted anything since. We ALL have done or said idioitic things.

And this is mine!!!