Changes at Brands - DTM to blame?

[KennyG]

For all the happy snappers that like to hang out at Druids it looks as though you will either have to be 8ft tall or have a cherry picker to get a decent view. New debris fencing, car parking for emergency vehicles, taller Armco, fencing attached to the Armco, all designed to keep cars away from joe public and improve marshal safety.

Anyone that goes this weekend, how about posting a few shots of the changes.

[peacock]

I was following the thread about it on 10/tenths and made a brief mention of it in general chat here, guess the motorsort guys dont get in there much:lol: I'm planning on going for tomorrows practice ,so hopefully I will post pics of the changes .

[Cadwell]

No, Jonathon Palmer is to blame. When it comes right down to it, it's his circuit and he carries the can.

I know you like the man, Ken, and think that he's done some good things but from my perspective as a paying spectator it has been mostly negative.

[KennyG]

JP is actually quite a nice guy when you chat to him off line, and he has turned around four race circuits that could have ended up as industrial parks or housing developments. That aside I don't agree with everything that MSV has done, even from my side of the fences.

They are under pressure from certain race series and the FIA to make the changes or they simply won't be able to host the events. Cadwell isn't immune either, as they have put up a catch fence on the outside of the hairpin for the safety of bike riders. I am not sure which is better if you get thrown off your bike, slamming into a very sturdy catch fence or landing in a corn field. It has ruined one of the classic Cadwell shots. Goodness knows what will happen to Snetterton over the winter when they start the re-work to make it FIA category 2 standard (same as Brands). I can see catch fences appearing everywhere. Even Oulton had to install pit lane safety fencing to meet regulations, and after the death of the marshal at Lodge I can forsee changes in that area of the track as well.

Unfortunately if any circuit wants to hold high profile events they are governed by two things - the FIA and the TV companies and you have to bow to their demands if you want to host them. The problem comes when these extra "safety" features get in the way of club or national events where they are not a requirement.

The only alternative is not to hold these events and simply run club and national meetings, putting everything else onto Silvertsone and Donington. I don't suppose that would go down well either. MSV and JP are in a no-win situation.

[PeteDyer]

But on the other side its thanks to JP we get the chance to see higher quality motorsport such as DTM and the A1 GP.

[Dave_G]

But on the other side its thanks to JP we get the chance to see higher quality motorsport such as DTM and the A1 GP.

All of once a year.

[FlashZebra]

For all the happy snappers that like to hang out at Druids it looks as though you will either have to be 8ft tall or have a cherry picker to get a decent view. New debris fencing, car parking for emergency vehicles, taller Armco, fencing attached to the Armco, all designed to keep cars away from joe public and improve marshal safety.

Anyone that goes this weekend, how about posting a few shots of the changes.
What might an "Armco" be?

I grew up in a town with an "Armco" steel mill (American Rolling Mill Corp.), possible it might be related, but most likely not.

Dictionary.com was stumped also.

In any case, I need a bit of help to understand this post.

Enjoy! Lon

[ron chappel]

....They are under pressure from certain race series and the FIA to make the changes or they simply won't be able to host the events.

That's it.


Of course one could carry the argument further and say that the FIA is arbitrarilly deciding what protection we need based on fear of lawsuits or an argument could be made that judges shouldn't be allowed to give massive payouts that lead to the whole problem....

[PeteDyer]

All of once a year.

Alot better than having to stomp round europe to see the best motorsport can offer (bar F1)

[Woolburr]

What might an "Armco" be?

I grew up in a town with an "Armco" steel mill (American Rolling Mill Corp.), possible it might be related, but most likely not.

Dictionary.com was stumped also.

In any case, I need a bit of help to understand this post.

Enjoy! Lon

ARMCO Steel made the most popular form of American guard rail for a number of years. That same system is in place at many race circuits around the world. An example can be seen here....ARMCO Barrier Photo (http://www.cenpart.co.uk/crash.htm)

[chris clements]

What might an "Armco" be?

The crash barriers on most UK motorways and circuits.

Interesting that the manufacturer's name hasn't stuck in his own country.
Perhaps we'll learn next that in the US all vacuum cleaners aren't generically called "Hoovers" !!

[Cadwell]

Before we paint JP as the saviour of British motorsport let’s get a few facts straight.

Brands Hatch was never in danger of being turned into housing or an industrial estate. Planning and environmental regulations meant that was out of the question as the Fouldsons found out when they tried to upgrade the circuit to host the British GP, not to mention the fuss the local residents put up about the thought of more housing. That rumour only started when Octagon/Interpublic had “talks” with a tame industrial developer in order to try and push the price up during the sale of the circuits. Everyone knew it was a sham.

The Indy circuit at Brands Hatch did not need to be modified to meet FIA Grade 2. The whole circuit at Brands including the GP loop already was. It had to be for A1 GP and it had to be for the London Champ Car Trophy several years before. The GP loop did need minor upgrading to cope with A1 GP.

Nice Dr. Palmer is the man who has decided to charge over 12s full adult admission to the circuits (as opposed to over 16s previously and everywhere else). He is the man who has abolished cheap concession access for the disabled and pensioners. He is the man who has increased the price of season tickets by over 100% in two years. He is the man who now charges me extra to park where I have been parking free for years.

A1 GP and DTM would still run in the UK if Brands remained unmodified. They might insist on running at Donington or Silverstone but so be it.

Drivers, spectators, marshals and photographers all dislike Silverstone and Donington. They have no atmosphere, you’re remote from the track and they’re unpleasant. JP seems determined to turn Brands and his other circuits into carbon copies of them in pursuit of improving his own bank balance. Now, I don’t blame him for that… he’s a businessman but please, please don’t tell me he’s doing it for the love of British motorsport.

[Swaffs]

I was there at the weekend (inside the fence fortunately), but having spoken to people on Sat evening, the changes at druids were to have a space available so they could crane cars out of the gravel and into a safe area, and keep the racing going. They had to put the new fence around the re-landscaped area. which has extended the area at the entrance to the corner. It wasn't done to annoy the public, or restrict viewing. Unfortunately I don't have any pics of the area to hand.

It also means there is a proper gate now at the marshals post to get to the outside of druids!

Rich Swaffs

[PeteDyer]

What about JP bring Snetterton up to FIA Grade 2?

[FlashZebra]

ARMCO Steel made the most popular form of American guard rail for a number of years. That same system is in place at many race circuits around the world. An example can be seen here....ARMCO Barrier Photo (http://www.cenpart.co.uk/crash.htm)
Thank you.

Enjoy! Lon

[FlashZebra]

The crash barriers on most UK motorways and circuits.

Interesting that the manufacturer's name hasn't stuck in his own country.
Perhaps we'll learn next that in the US all vacuum cleaners aren't generically called "Hoovers" !!
While I am a pretty good student of popular American culture, personally I have never heard of a guardrail referred to as an "Armco" (hence my confusion), but that does not mean that I might not have missed out on a term here and there.

But, if that term is in use in the US, I suspect it is not common (note key word here is "suspect").

A kind thanks for the info.

Enjoy! Lon

[GSH]

What about JP bring Snetterton up to FIA Grade 2?


Big fences and gravel traps bigger than most beaches?

That'll be nice ;)

[GSH]

Alot better than having to stomp round europe to see the best motorsport can offer (bar F1)


Taking into account the cost of visiting a race weekend at Brands, it wouldn't be much more expensive to go to Europe.

At least we wouldn't have to suffer the lager swilling half-wits that attend the major meetings here. Personally i'd like to see booze banned from race tracks. Drunks and fast cars/bikes just don't mix well IMHO.

There seems to be a fence frenzy at UK circuits right now. The little guard fences at the Marshal's posts that have appeared seem to be a direct result of what happened at the Oulton Park BSB test, which i can understand. But the monstrosity that has been inflicted at Croft serves no logical purpose at all.

[Dave_G]

Alot better than having to stomp round europe to see the best motorsport can offer (bar F1)

Nah, DTM @ Spa rocked a few years back mate.

Plus it's in Belgium. land of beer and sshteak on a sshtone.

[KennyG]

What about JP bring Snetterton up to FIA Grade 2?

Probably the biggest investment in a UK race circuit for over 20 years. As long as it isn't 'over fenced', then it can only be a good thing. A lot of us are waiting to see the plans. Even Cadwell is having 4ft added to the track width over the winter to give more elbow room for the cars.

Octagon was allowing the circuits to go down the pan, mainly because they couldn't attract the crowds or negotiate adequate circuit hire charges. This meant no investment and club racing was under threat at four of the UK's major circuits. MSV have put huge investments into the circuits and the crowds are coming back. From a general spectator point-of-view the changes are obvious, even the loos are clean (sometimes sporting my photos, but you can't have everything). A lot of the mess Silverstone is in now is down to Octagon's tenure, plus the BRDC making the same mistakes.

Safety and the fear of law suits is ruling the circuits at the moment. Having watched part of the BTCC at Donington over the weekend and the appalling driving standards I can see the point to some degree. The trick IMHO is to 'lift' the public above the track and get way from the need for high fences. This works at Croft and parts of Oulton Park, Anglesey and Cadwell. Unfortunately it does not make for good pictures from the public areas.

As well as the FIA and the likes of event organisers such as BSB, the TV companies have a big influence on the circuits. I can assure you they are out at night with pots of green paint at Paddock for big televised events. Oulton had an Armco re-spray for BSB plus all the kerbs re-painted, just for the TV boys and BSB. Circuits are a business, just like a football club or amusement park and we have to accept they are there to make profit. If it means sticking up fences to allow the running of big events from which they earn big bucks, they will have to do it and we will have to live with it. Not nice, but that's commercial reality.