UPDATE: D30 High ISO Noise Reduction

[KHogan]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I posted a question about how to tackle high-ISO noise. You pointed me in a couple of directions and provided very helpful suggestions. Thought I'd report back on my experiments and progress if it's of any help to anyone...

First, probably the easiest way to deal with high-ISO noise is to avoid it. :) I followed up on Pekka's suggestion to expose for the bright areas of the image with great success. Further to this, I experimented with over-exposing by a stop or more. I have found that if I shoot in RAW mode and convert using Pekka's LinearSharpen (or LinearAction), I am able afterwards to bring back detail in the overexposed areas quite nicely without increasing the noise level in the image. In fact, there is virtually no noise at 800 ISO in this situation and only minimal noise at 1600 ISO. This is a very viable solution for times when you can get away with it....

For those times when the above method isn't possible (for example low-light and night shooting), I followed up on the other options suggested here. A couple of very kind forum members at DPReview offered to run some of my images through Fred Miranda's D30Pro ISOR actions and sent them back to me so I could get an idea of what was possible with these actions. Meanwhile, I processed the same images with NeatImage to see the difference.

I have put up an example of the results from these two methods for anyone that is interested. Note that this page will only be available for a few days.

I will let you draw your own conclusions or do your own experiments. I'd be interested in any comments or feedback you may have. Enjoy...

http://pages.infinit.net/ndims/Temp/NRTests/

Thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions.

Kharim

[gerry]

neat image looks best to me.

where is this available?

[Griffin]

Yes, I have both software test here. But to me, both has some merits and demerits.

1. Neat Image may be very comportable to the viewer's eyes. However, from the 2nd cropped sample, you can see some details have lost during the reduction process. It is more appearent if the subject is a close-up portraits.

2. Neat Image requires a device profile, while not difficult to prepare one, making a good one is hard! Ill-prepared profile are know to generate artifacts.

3. It is very appearent that Fred's action still "retain" some "noise" or less "smooth". Are you using the "normal" setting? How about "higher" setting?

4. So far, I am most comfortable with Canon's in-camera noise reduction software, up to ISO400. If somebody can get the exact algorithm and apply them to ISO800 or above. I would be very grateful.


Griffin.

[Pekka]

Hi Griffin,

Griffin wrote:
1. Neat Image may be very comportable to the viewer's eyes. However, from the 2nd cropped sample, you can see some details have lost during the reduction process. It is more appearent if the subject is a close-up portraits.

Yes, Neat needs a good even sample and careful setting to get it smooth and sharp at the same time. Not an easy software to use!

4. So far, I am most comfortable with Canon's in-camera noise reduction software, up to ISO400. If somebody can get the exact algorithm and apply them to ISO800 or above. I would be very grateful.

D30 does noise reduction in sensor, for each pixel, and not in RGB mode. This makes me think it's impossible to simulate that quality in softeware. And I'm sure Canon will not tell us how exactly they do it hardware either.

[Griffin]

Pekka wrote:
Hi Griffin,

D30 does noise reduction in sensor, for each pixel, and not in RGB mode. This makes me think it's impossible to simulate that quality in softeware. And I'm sure Canon will not tell us how exactly they do it hardware either.


Really? I must have been misinformed. That is not something I would expect Canon would give away, even for a fee. Some people say, even some part the EOS mount specifications are not given to 3rd party lens manufacturers.

I admit noise reduction is not an easy job for software and will stay this way so for some time. The best is to avoid using high ISO...


Griffin.

[KHogan]

gerry wrote:
neat image looks best to me.

where is this available?

Hi Gerry,

NeatImage is available at http://absoft.hotbox.ru

Kharim

[KHogan]

Hi Griffin,

Griffin wrote:
Yes, I have both software test here. But to me, both has some merits and demerits.

1. Neat Image may be very comportable to the viewer's eyes. However, from the 2nd cropped sample, you can see some details have lost during the reduction process. It is more appearent if the subject is a close-up portraits..
So far I've found that it's important to take the time to go through the profile fine-tuning process in order to get minimal to no loss of detail and maximum noise reduction. When there is alot of noise, this noise is everywhere including in the details. I have experimented with several different types of images including portraits and have found that with time and tweaking of the profile, I can get very good results with minimum loss of detail. However, it takes time to get there.

Griffin wrote:
2. Neat Image requires a device profile, while not difficult to prepare one, making a good one is hard! Ill-prepared profile are know to generate artifacts..
Agreed! See above.

Griffin wrote:
3. It is very appearent that Fred's action still "retain" some "noise" or less "smooth". Are you using the "normal" setting? How about "higher" setting?.
I had samples generated with both the normal setting and also with the higher setting (I believe it's normal plus some edge sharpening). One difference I noticed was that the samples that had gone through Fred's NR were hard to sharpen more afterwards because the remaining noise would become very apparent again.

Of course, this topic is still very much open for discussion. There are clearly differences in the way both solutions arrive at their ends and the results they yield. Depending on one's needs also will determine the route one will choose. My goal is to find the solution that will come closest to what I'm looking for. Given the exceptional quality of image the D30 is able to produce, I'm looking for something that will yield minimal degradation of the actual image and allow me the freedom to overcome certain limitations of the D30 for certain types of shots.

I'm still hoping to see examples of Fred's actions that yield results that are as good as the one example he has up on his site. Have you been able to get such results?

Griffin wrote:
4. So far, I am most comfortable with Canon's in-camera noise reduction software, up to ISO400. If somebody can get the exact algorithm and apply them to ISO800 or above. I would be very grateful.


Griffin.

Canon's in-camera noise reduction is only available for long exposures (>1 sec) as far as I know. I believe the way the in-camera NR works is a sort of black frame noise removal technique. The camera takes a second blank shot which is used to subtract from the original shot to remove the noise. If your exposures are less than 1 sec long, the D30 noise reduction will not kick in regardless of the ISO you're using.

Great discussion! Thanks for your comments and feedback!
Kharim

[Griffin]

It is called "Denoiser".

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=2022165

I have not yet tried this but I would do so and post results here.

[KHogan]

Griffin wrote:
It is called "Denoiser".

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=2022165

I have not yet tried this but I would do so and post results here.

Hi Griffin,

Thanks for the link. I just tried it and while it yields some interesting results, I have to say that I much prefer the precision, levels of control and results from NeatImage. This Denoiser doesn't allow for fine-tuning. Mind you, given that it's a PS plug-in, one can bother to make selections and apply the denoiser at various levels on different selections. But it's very slow at calculating. It's not slower than NeatImage but if you have to run multiple passes of Denoiser to get the level of detail and precision desired, you may as well use NI and just do it once. Anyway, that's my take on it. Admittedly, I didn't do extensive tests. Just ran it on a few images to compare.

Looking forward to having a look at your results and hearing what you think.

Kharim

[darrell]

here are a couple of high noise shots, one fixed with neatimage. The original was shot with a canon 28-105 canon lens. apature priority at f4. fine jpg compression from the camera.
http://www.rubber-monkey.net/photography/d30shots/tramp%20179.jpg


http://www.rubber-monkey.net/photography/d30shots/tramp%20179_filtered.jpg


just got my micro drive this week, so I'll be trying out the raw file format, and one of the new canon L series f2.8 zoom rented for the weekend.

[KHogan]

Looks good Darrell!!

Have a great weekend with the lens....

Kharim

[Pekka]

http://absoft.hotbox.ru/history.html

Interesting to see how much they ask for the full version.

[sasc]

Neat Image looks the best to me. And I think it works the best too.

[KHogan]

I agree. I love that software now! It's a bit slow but for the results it yields, it's worth it. Also curious how much they will charge for their final version. :)

Kharim