Professional Photography School Rant

[Photodawg1]

I am starting to look around for a good program of classes that will enable me to be a better photographer. I was looking at a local, pretty well respected photography school tht offers a Professonal Certificate in Photography. ONLY CATCH, one of the REQUIRED courses is Darkroom Techniques. I called and questioned it and was told that the State of Maryland Board of Higher Education required it. I think this is ridiculous! I am not negating the benefits of this course, and think it would be an appropriate elective. When I bought my digital I sold my film camera outfit.
Why should I be required to learn something I will never use. Is that really the only way I can learn photography???
Does anyone else feel it is an outdated requirement? I called the State Board of Higher Education and am waiting for a call back. I will be pursuing this. Please give me your thoughts and let me know if I am being unreasonable.

[brivett]

Film is still used in many Professional Areas.

It will be useful to you in many ways.

[Punisher77]

I am not negating the benefits of this course, and think it would be an appropriate elective. <snip>

Why should I be required to learn something I will never use.
Back to the basics. Almost every school that I know of has a few courses that go over the basic knowledge about a subject before diving into the cutting edge.

Film photography was how it all started and gives you a great introduction into saturation, colour reproduction, post-processing techniques, etc. that were all invented before photoshop existed. :)

[Photodawg1]

So far...two to one....:(

[Woolburr]

While there is some merit to film and darkroom experience...in this day and age a course on digital darkroom practices would be far more valuable. Making it a requirement seems kind of archaic. Do they make their auto mechanics classes study assembly techniques for the Model T?

[PIXI_666]

Personally, i have already done darkroom photography for near on 4 years when film was big, so i found it VERY beneficial in going through the process, trust me it's a great learning curve for ANYBODY and i think going back to the basics just teach's you how to work with a fully manual camera (It does the world of good!) and really, working in a darkroom is FUN, take it with a pinch of salt, bite the bullet and just do it for now. Im sure in 5 years time....film might be fully out the window, but for now, i still see photographer's using film! (Some photog's cannot afford to get fully digital equipment and upgrade at the moment - if you start working for a photographer that is fully film...you have to KNOW about this!!!!)

Hope this helps

Del

[PIXI_666]

By the way...in my course, we started out with with a PINHOLE camera....it just got me interested in the older ways of photographing, i now have 15 different camera models, about 4 of those are box brownies, i am learning how to use them too....

[Spearin]

I think learning film and how everything in the darkroom works is fundamental to achieve a 'professional certificate.' All the top schools that I know of in Canada for photography all start off (and usually finish) with film, although of course there needs to be digital in there somewhere.

I think that we haven't reached the point yet where digital has taken over film so much that the latter won't be included in education. Maybe a few years down the road... but not yet. Yes, every shot of film will cost you and the chemicals may be more harmful than your computer monitor... but it still is the best way of gaining a better understanding and wealth of knowledge in the field of photography.

So my two cents on the matter would be to suck it up (nothing personal) and learn film in order to gain a 'professional certificate' because it is of greater benefit, or else it wouldn't be there.

[netizen]

If you get a degree in information systems, they teach you pascal, or cobol. Two programming languages rarely used in this day and age. However, the classes are not 100% about teaching you skills that you will use, but teaching you thought processes that will aid you in more modern classes.

Film like pascal and cobol, is not dead. Its simply not used as much due to the fact that digital cameras are getting cheaper and better. But that doesn't mean there isn't value in learning how to work with it. I am willing to bet you might actually learning semething that will help improve your digital darkroom skills.

[Punisher77]

If you get a degree in information systems, they teach you pascal, or cobol. Two programming languages rarely used in this day and age. However, the classes are not 100% about teaching you skills that you will use, but teaching you thought processes that will aid you in more modern classes.
Good comparison. ;)

[ssim]

I think that you will find that most respectable full service photography schools will require some level of darkroom courses. I did my own color and b&w processing for a number of years and it was a valuable lesson. It gives you an overall understanding of the full photographic process.

You want to be a pro. If you are going to do weddings and portraits your whole photographic career you could probably survive on digital. Say there is a job posted for a large photohouse that specializes in things like architecture. Chances are you are going to have to use a view camera (and what a treat it is). You will be required to have darkroom basics.

I don't clearly understand why you seem to be so upset with getting an understanding of the photographic gamut by doing darkroom. It is an enjoyable and rewarding experience. If you don't like this one, pick another school, perhaps they don't have the same requirement.

[mjordan]

I remember when I as learning electronics in the Air Force. They had a two week class on tubes. Tubes? Very few things used tubes. What a waste I thought. Tubes were replaced with transistors. Well, it turned out that learning tubes gave us the basics and the foundation of how transistors worked.

It's the same way with film and darkroom work. Knowing and understanding film and understanding the process of developing and printing will give you a good foundation of digital. Most of the principles are the same... except you are exposing pixels on a sensor instead of grains of silver on plastic and Photoshop replaces the darkroom. But you know, you just don't get the same excitment of watching a digital image pop up on your screen as you do watching your first print appear in a tray of developer. If you skip that, you won't know what you are missing.

Mike

[dshootist]

i'll probably catch flak for some of this, but here goes:

you still learn how to tell time using an analog clock even though digital has been around for decades.
you still have to learn basic math when even phones have calculators on them.
nobody runs before they walk. or stand. or sit upright.
etc. etc. etc.

there are quite a few advantages digital has over film, but not enough (in my mind) to completely disregard the basic foundations of the original technique. learning real darkroom manipulation can only enhance what you'll do later in the digital environment. photography is all about light and how we capture, manipulate and reproduce what we've seen. the more knowledge the better.:D

[slitherjef]

The first time I pulled a 35mm roll of tri-x 400 out of the soup and seen the images, I was floored. The images where nothing special, but still, it was the thought I was able to get everything to come together just right and seeing the frames put a huge smile on my face.

The bad thing is a POS flat bed scanner don't work too well with black and white negs and I don't have room for an inlarger. I am pretty much digital now but I think running a roll of tri-x through my camera and processing it in my bathroom is still fun.

Digital may be taking over, but film is not dead. Give it a whirl. And no, I am not a pro and I have only processed 3 rolls of film, but to me, there was something "magic" about it.

[Claire]

I think learning film and how everything in the darkroom works is fundamental to achieve a 'professional certificate.' All the top schools that I know of in Canada for photography all start off (and usually finish) with film, although of course there needs to be digital in there somewhere.

I think that we haven't reached the point yet where digital has taken over film so much that the latter won't be included in education. Maybe a few years down the road... but not yet. Yes, every shot of film will cost you and the chemicals may be more harmful than your computer monitor... but it still is the best way of gaining a better understanding and wealth of knowledge in the field of photography.

So my two cents on the matter would be to suck it up (nothing personal) and learn film in order to gain a 'professional certificate' because it is of greater benefit, or else it wouldn't be there.

Pretty much what I thought of saying. From what I know all the big schools within photography require you to shoot film and learn darkrom technique. And I also believe it's good to learn the basics, but there should be some electives later on where you can choose more digitally oriented stuff. I bet you that everyone who has a degree or diploma in anything have taken course that they don't really use in daily life...

[Photodawg1]

Wow! Okay. See that I won't win this one! The thing is you all made good points. I really apppreciate everyone taking the time to answer, because this is pretty important to me. I am nigh on 50 not lots of $$$ laying around, so good/local schools that offer a program and would accommodate my schedule are scarce, so I guess I will pay them a visit and get the ball rolling. Does anyone think that I am too old to think of taking this path? (Please be honest, I'm not senistive about this). Thanks again!

[Claire]

I don't even know how old you are! ;)

[Lightstream]

I've been there and done it (specifically, the IT path as mentioned earlier) and called into question the whole value of whether you actually learn anything for the better part of a decade. Yes, I actually spent that much time thinking about it. Some things run deep.... but back to the point:

The answer I finally came to understand is that you take certification for SOMEONE ELSE to look at, and therefore, you need to qualify by SOMEONE ELSE'S standards, whether or not they are irrelevant, whether or not they are useful. Personally I've done way too much crap that is irrelevant to me but somehow seems to be regarded well by others, and when others are signing the paycheck, well, give 'em what they want so they give me what I want.

You could always go freelance though, screw the paper, and be your own guy. That of course, presents its own unique set of problems.

I would say that if you feel that you really feel the need to have that certification, either work around it as others have suggested (find a place that doesn't require it - tough though), or just take the course, enjoy it as play time, you needn't take it TOO seriously (just seriously enough to pass) and see it as a sort of curiosity, how things were done in an earlier time. If it turns out you do need those skills later, you won't be completely lost and they will come back to you, if you don't need those skills in the end, just look upon them as a curious relic or artifact of days gone by - just an experience to say "I've been there".

(not that I have anything for or against film/darkroom work, just speaking in general about certificates, trades, courses and qualifications)

[aliflack]

If you get a degree in information systems, they teach you pascal, or cobol. Two programming languages rarely used in this day and age.

Really? Try telling that to the massive finanical corporations that have the vast majority of their mainframe systems running on COBOL... In some sectors it is hard to get away from!

[Croasdail]

Wow! Okay. See that I won't win this one! The thing is you all made good points. I really apppreciate everyone taking the time to answer, because this is pretty important to me. I am nigh on 50 not lots of $$$ laying around, so good/local schools that offer a program and would accommodate my schedule are scarce, so I guess I will pay them a visit and get the ball rolling. Does anyone think that I am too old to think of taking this path? (Please be honest, I'm not senistive about this). Thanks again!

Too old... never. Tallent is the key, having a good eye, and the ability to see situations in a unique or interesting way. Age has nothing to do with it. It's the end result. If what is hanging on the wall, or spread across the page that matters. I think the hardest thing about being older will be being willing to see things in new ways. When your young that seems to come easier, as you age like I have you seem to have a stronger point of view - which may or may not be in sync with the viewer. Go for it.... learning is never a waste of time or money.

[KennyG]

I know some courses here in the UK that won't allow any digital cameras as they regard them as consumer toys, not serious photographic tools. Some educational establishments are stuck with tutors and attitudes at least five years behind the real world.

I have come through the world of film from Kodak Brownie and Canon A1 to 1 series film cameras and doing my own processing along the way and wouldn't go back to it. I like living in today's world thank you.

[coreypolis]

I attended Brooks Institute, the higest regarded school around for photography. You spend the first year in film, shooting 35mm and 4x5 chromes and B&W. The lessons you learn in film translate directly to digital and make you a better photographer in the end. understanding when to you each medium and being comftorable in each camera format and medium is essential in the industry.

teaching digital to start can crush a lot of people, as you shot first, think about it later approach will kill your pictures. Too many people use photoshop as a crutch

[Mark_48]

And later on in your career when the client says, " I want the project shot on film." :o

[chtgrubbs]

I still shoot a signifigant portion of my work with film, both medium and large format. I would never hire an assistant who couldn't develop and print film to a professional standard.

[Spearin]

professional standard
Those are the key words. Film remains a 'professional standard' -- it is taught at (probably) all educational institutes and since digital is relatively new (in the history of photography) it has not yet become the full 'standard.' Although it is obviously extremely popular and under wide use.

[DocFrankenstein]

Whatever profession you choose, you will have courses which frustrate you because they seem irrelevant to what you are going to do. You can struggle and resist learning the things that are taught there. Or you can accept that people who have designed the curriculum have more experience that you do and it will benefit you in some way.

It may not be an obvious or it may not be a direct asset, but you will learn at least something from it.

Wait till you have to process and print color and develop slide ;)

[braduardo]

Whatever profession you choose, you will have courses which frustrate you because they seem irrelevant to what you are going to do. You can struggle and resist learning the things that are taught there. Or you can accept that people who have designed the curriculum have more experience that you do and it will benefit you in some way.

It may not be an obvious or it may not be a direct asset, but you will learn at least something from it.

Wait till you have to process and print color and develop slide ;)

I was wondering if anyone was going to get around to saying this. It doesn't matter what type of degree or certification you want from a school, you will have to take classes that seem (and probably are) completely irrelevant to you.

Personally, I think that learning darkroom techniques would be pretty fun, and at least it applies to your goals. It's not like they are expecting you to take a literature or phy-ed class.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of picking up film equipment. Now that digital has exploded on the scene, you should be able to get a pretty good quality film camera that you can use with your EF lenses. When I go to the camera shop I see them lined up with tons of toys to go with.

Have fun with it... Enjoy the classes and see if you are able to learn anything that will make you a better photographer, for digital or film.

[Photodawg1]

All excellent points. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me with your wisdom s. Enough whining then, I need to start looking for a good film camera! Moving forward with the educating of Linda...to be continued...:D

[kenyc]

Wow! Okay. See that I won't win this one! The thing is you all made good points. I really apppreciate everyone taking the time to answer, because this is pretty important to me. I am nigh on 50 not lots of $$$ laying around, so good/local schools that offer a program and would accommodate my schedule are scarce, so I guess I will pay them a visit and get the ball rolling. Does anyone think that I am too old to think of taking this path? (Please be honest, I'm not senistive about this). Thanks again!

You may not win, but you're right. The time of film is past. Digital all the way:D. Not that I disagree with learning the basics at all. That definitely should be where it starts, but darkroom, film, chemicals, prints, etc. is just wrong to be required.

KAC

[PhotosGuy]

Whatever profession you choose, you will have courses which frustrate you because they seem irrelevant to what you are going to do. You can struggle and resist learning the things that are taught there. Or you can accept that people who have designed the curriculum have more experience that you do and it will benefit you in some way.
It may not be an obvious or it may not be a direct asset, but you will learn at least something from it.
Wait till you have to process and print color and develop slide :D
1/ Every school has "useless" classes & requirements, & I've taken my share. They have to keep the instructors busy somehow, & as has been said, you may learn something useful.

2/ The instructors have a good grounding in darkroom, but may not be up to speed in digital. Do they offer classes in that? It wouldn't be the 1st time I took a class & knew more that the instructor. You just have to live with it to get the piece of paper which, IMO, won't help you do more than get your foot in a door in 1st place. Then you'd better have some "Kick A**" images to keep their interest level up.

3/ People who might hire you are looking for a reason to not hire you, along with the other 356 applicants they have to weed through this week? ;)

4/ I don't think you're being unreasonable. Just beating your head against an unmoveable object! :D

[Photodawg1]

:D
1/ Every school has "useless" classes & requirements, & I've taken my share. They have to keep the instructors busy somehow, & as has been said, you may learn something useful.

2/ The instructors have a good grounding in darkroom, but may not be up to speed in digital. Do they offer classes in that? It wouldn't be the 1st time I took a class & knew more that the instructor. You just have to live with it to get the piece of paper which, IMO, won't help you do more than get your foot in a door in 1st place. Then you'd better have some "Kick A**" images to keep their interest level up.

3/ People who might hire you are looking for a reason to not hire you, along with the other 356 applicants they have to weed through this week? ;)

4/ I don't think you're being unreasonable. Just beating your head against an unmoveable object! :D

Thanks Frank, I just contacted the Washington Photography School for admissions info and catalog....deep breath. Now have to figure where the heck I am going to get the $$/s!

[staciecd]

I sent you a PM. I am taking classes in the fall at Catonsville Community College. I have one film class to take, but I could get out of it if I can't find a film camera. You may want to try borrowing one or talk to the teachers. I would find it hard to believe that a school that offers the class doesn't have an extra film camera laying around.

Stacie