Family portraits; do you limit them?

[rightaway]

I find that I spent way too much time doing family photos after the ceremony. How do you guys and gals handle this. Do you limit the number of shots or time? Most brides will have a list of shots they want and most of the time it is never ending!!! Like the bride with every sister, brother, uncle, cousins, ....individually, then with the groom.....you get the idea :rolleyes:
Yesterday, we had 2.5 hours for photos and we ended up using 2 just for boring family photos...

any advice?

Stephan

[JustKat]

I used to run into that problem also. Now I discuss this with the B&G before the wedding. I explain to them, with heartfelt gratitude:) , how long this process takes and that if they can, lets do as many of these shots before the ceremony. I tell them it can waste a lot of their valuable time with their guests. If this doesn't work, then I tell them(nicely)that the people whom are going to have individual shots with them will be herded into a preselected area by my assistants and preselected members of the wedding group, the subjects will then be brought up individually for their picture. Every shot will be in the same place(time will not allow you to set up every shot differently and you don't have to worry about changing your settings). The subjects will then be photographed and moved on (much like cattle-herded, put through the shoot, branded, then turned loose;) ). If you miss a few(they do wander off) tell the Bride or Groom you will try to catch the shot later at the reception, I even ask them to remind me. Maybe I only get nice couples, but I've never had them upset with me. Maybe I sound like a jerk for saying this but if you ask them to remind you later and they don't and the shot is not taken, you are not blamed for missing something.

[dsze]

Good advice. These family formals always seem to take longer than they should. ...just smile grandma! I try to always tell the B&G before hand that it will be there responsibility to make sure that the family they want included STAY around after the ceremony. Otherwise they won't be in the shot. Doing them before hand is a good idea if you can work it. ...just remember that these are the photos that people buy. We love shooting the B&G and being creative, but people buy the formal group stuff, even when it sucks. I say take the time and get those shots, but limit it to 45 minutes max.

[rightaway]

We love shooting the B&G and being creative, but people buy the formal group stuff, even when it sucks. I say take the time and get those shots, but limit it to 45 minutes max.

I find that if I tell the couple a time limit, it is like talking a foreign language.
Would it be better to limit the number of shots?
I also ask that they email me a list prior to the wedding to make sure it is not out of control.

For those who offer different packages, do you limit the time for formals? or the number of shots for the lesser package?

[dsze]

I find that if I tell the couple a time limit, it is like talking a foreign language.
Would it be better to limit the number of shots?
I also ask that they email me a list prior to the wedding to make sure it is not out of control.

For those who offer different packages, do you limit the time for formals? or the number of shots for the lesser package?

Whats the difference? If they aren't following your guidelines for time then why would they follow your guidelines for a specified # of shots. At some point you just have to say, "alright, we've got _____ minutes left," "if we spend more time here we aren't going to get the creative stuff I know you guys want."

[linarms]

I'm still going second shooter so don't have much experience to back my comments up with, but so far I've found that it works well to have set combinations in your head (bride and groom with each set of parents, both sets of parents, each family, etc.) and plough through them quickly with the help of a family member who can muster people as required. Generally there should only be a few combos specifically requested by the couple (eg. "Uncle Sam is flying in for the day, so we'd like one with him" or "we really need one with my Grandma and she won't be able to stand up for the general shoot"), otherwise you're shooting for too long and miss good candids and good on-location shots. Ideally this boring bit should only go for 20 minutes or so. Which would need to be explained beforehand, of course ;-)

Just my thoughts ...

[Claire]

Do it the Swedish way; only take formals of the couple. :D

[jamiewexler]

Why limit it at all? The way I see it, I'm hired by the couple to do a job (i.e. I work for them for the day). If they want to spend 4 hours shooting group formals, so be it. They're about the easiest shots you'll get all day. Yes, I'd much prefer to spend an hour with the B&G walking around being creative, but I'm not paid for what I prefer!

Having said that, when I speak with the B&G about the timeline for the day, I tell them to estimate 5 minutes per group + 15-20 minutes for photos of the two of them. Then I leave it up to them to make enough time during the day for all of the formals or cut down the list (they usually choose the latter). I also ask them to give the formal list to a family member or bridesmaid, and make it that person's responsibility to make sure everyone's in the preselected area. I explain that the pictures will take even longer if we have to get Uncle Mort from the bar.

[dsze]

Why limit it at all? The way I see it, I'm hired by the couple to do a job (i.e. I work for them for the day). If they want to spend 4 hours shooting group formals, so be it. They're about the easiest shots you'll get all day. Yes, I'd much prefer to spend an hour with the B&G walking around being creative, but I'm not paid for what I prefer!


...this is only true IF the B&G are happy with their photos ;) Yes, you are the hired pro. They are expecting you to be a pro, which means telling them whats happening to their photos because of time issues. You & know what the photos are going to look like when we finish the editing and such. They have only a vague idea. They are caught up in the moment and most of the time, need the photog to be a "little" pushy. We know what will make their album look good and I believe we have a responsibility to push a little for that. ...once they see the photos they aren't going to remember telling you that 4 hours for group formals was OK...they are going to say, "why are there only 2 creative shots of us?

[jamiewexler]

...this is only true IF the B&G are happy with their photos ;) Yes, you are the hired pro. They are expecting you to be a pro, which means telling them whats happening to their photos because of time issues. You & know what the photos are going to look like when we finish the editing and such. They have only a vague idea. They are caught up in the moment and most of the time, need the photog to be a "little" pushy. We know what will make their album look good and I believe we have a responsibility to push a little for that. ...once they see the photos they aren't going to remember telling you that 4 hours for group formals was OK...they are going to say, "why are there only 2 creative shots of us?

The only problem I see with that approach is that it could backfire. What if you get 30 great creative shots of them together, but, because of "pushing" them to shorten their formal session, you don't get a shot of them with favorite Aunt Millie. Aunt Millie dies unexpectedly a week later, and the bride and groom remember that they originally had the shot on their shot list, but the photographer suggested they shorten the session...

This scenario's not so far fetched. It happened to me...but I got the shot of Aunt "Millie" , and it was used at the memorial service.

By telling them that it will take 5 minutes per group and to budget 15-20 minutes for just the two of them, I am putting the ball in their court, and letting them make the decision on what groups should be included before the wedding day. That way, if the photo of Aunt Millie is missing, they made the decision to exclude it, not me.

No personal offence to anyone here, but assuming that we know what's best for a couple is somewhat arrogant, and a bad way to do business. For example, I always try to get fun, creative shots of the bride and groom every wedding (that's what the 15-20 minutes is for), I also get some standatd "Formal" poses. I let the B&G choose the photos for their albums. About half of them choose the shots that I find stiff and boring. Not my personal preference (or the shots that you'll see on my website), but to them, those are the shots that they want in their albums. Different strokes, and all that...

Not to mention, the "stiff, boring," formals are what sell. Everyone buys them.

[dsze]

Not to mention, the "stiff, boring," formals are what sell. Everyone buys them.

This is true. I hear what you're saying and maybe I shouldn't have used the word, "push." As I said in a previous post in this thread, take the time to get these shots, but we are the professionals. We have been to many more weddings and seen more wedding photos that most couples we are shooting for. We tend to have a better idea of what works, what looks good and what doesn't. Being "pushy" isn't a good approach, you are right. However, making suggestions based on our experience & expertise is professional.

[linarms]

The only problem I see with that approach is that it could backfire. What if you get 30 great creative shots of them together, but, because of "pushing" them to shorten their formal session, you don't get a shot of them with favorite Aunt Millie. Aunt Millie dies unexpectedly a week later, and the bride and groom remember that they originally had the shot on their shot list, but the photographer suggested they shorten the session...

This is a good example. The pro I shoot with has had similar things happen, so I've been learning to pay particular attention to capturing candid - and posed - moments with aging relatives at weddings.

But I would still gently encourage a bride with a huge list of requested combinations to shorten it somewhat - shooting every possible combination of relatives and friends is probably not the best use of a professional photographer's time ;-) That said, I've been to a wedding where the bride and groom spend most of their time overseas, so they barely ever see their guests. So understandably, they wanted photos with everyone ... and it's ultimately their call, so in this situation ... you'd either do what they want, and do it well, or not offer your services. (Though you could use the reception to get these photos, if appropriate ...)

One solution to the whole 'wanting a photo with everyone' thing is to get a wide-angle shot of everyone, just after the ceremony or even during the ceremony. If that's the sort of thing the bride and groom would like, of course ;-)

[Benji]

I tell the bride and groom I need three hours to do all of the shots that need to be done. If they decide to do them prior to the ceremony they can take $300.00 off of the price of my coverage. In about 98% of the time they jump at the chance to save $300.00. If they don't, I tell them I need them 2.5 hours prior to the ceremony, then I do everything I can without the bride and groom seeing one another, then we set everything back up after the ceremony and finish, and I pocket an additional $300.00!

Benji

[Jubilee32]

Jamie - I like your style. I bet you have very satisfied clients.

[davidfig]

I agree with Jamie, also do the photos in reverse. I usually see photogs start with the couple and work outward. I start with everyone and peel off the subjects. This of course is not perfect. But the point is to have the least amount of people sitting around, as it takes human many minutes just to get up out of a seat. ;)

[JaertX]

Jamie - I like your style. I bet you have very satisfied clients.

I completely agree...

Jamie - you continually post good, well grounded, common-sense type advice that many can't quite put in to words. Thanks!

I'm suspicious that you've read some Carnegie, Stanley, and Covey? I think when it comes to business and how to deal with clients their books are priceless. They'll truly inspire you to have a "servant" type attitude in regards to others...which is a characteristic of the most successful, wealthy and most importantly happy people. A little OT...but anyway...

[jamiewexler]

Thanks everyone. I guess my years in customer service fields counted for something...

I agree with Jamie, also do the photos in reverse. I usually see photogs start with the couple and work outward. I start with everyone and peel off the subjects. This of course is not perfect. But the point is to have the least amount of people sitting around, as it takes human many minutes just to get up out of a seat. ;)

That's exactly what I do. I call it "big, small, smaller" Start with the biggest group on the list (usually extended family), then dismiss whoever I can, then the next biggest, and so on, until I'm left with just the B&G. I get better pictures of the B&G when they're alone, and the family loves that they didn't have to stand aroud for hours watching me take pictures...

[jamiewexler]

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[tim]

I talk to the couple when I meet them a month before their wedding, I tell them it takes 5 minutes per group shot, and I suggest they think about what photos they'll put in their album. You can less formal pictures later in the day, if you offer reception coverage. Remember you are being paid to do what the couple want, but we have more experience with weddings, and we have to guide our customers. If we discuss it and they want 4 hours of group shots and 5 minutes of photos of them together, i'll do it. I won't like it, but i'll do it cheerfully - I tell people that on their wedding day i'm happy to take photos of anything and anyone they like, any time :)

[dsze]

I talk to the couple when I meet them a month before their wedding, I tell them it takes 5 minutes per group shot, and I suggest they think about what photos they'll put in their album. You can less formal pictures later in the day, if you offer reception coverage. Remember you are being paid to do what the couple want, but we have more experience with weddings, and we have to guide our customers. If we discuss it and they want 4 hours of group shots and 5 minutes of photos of them together, i'll do it. I won't like it, but i'll do it cheerfully - I tell people that on their wedding day i'm happy to take photos of anything and anyone they like, any time :)

...agreed. Absolutely, think we have sort of an obligation to submit friendly reminders like, "do you guys still want the creative stuff like we talked about, because we're running out of time?" ...but at the same time, if they say, "we want to get _____ family groups still," then we absolutely respect that and do it. As has been said, those family formals aren't usually what goes onto your website, but they are what sells in prints later to the family.

[BLINN]

not if time permitts....get one good one and go from there....

[jj1987]

Dont you guys sell formals? That sells well, because the couple is flat broke after their wedding. However, aunts uncles, grandma grandpa aren't. They WILL order 8x10's or even 16x20's usually of the whole familey.

Then get sunset pictures at the reception, which is usually by a lake, golf course, or something that looks prettier than inside a church.

[rcanzano]

I'll toss in my two-cents from perhaps a little differnt perspective.

I've been lucky enough to experience weddings from may different angles . . . as a groom, a videographer, a DJ, and photographer.

I have always taken the approach of it being the Brides & Groom's day and whatever they want they get. BUT . . . . . as soon as those words come out of my mouth they are followed up with letting them know the things that work better than others. We are the professionals and we can guide them (gingerly) to make sure all goes well.

As a DJ I always run the show to make sure all goes smoothly. This includes the timing of all the events of the day as I act as the cordinator. In a standard cermemony followed immediately by the reception, there is no way you can take 3 hours between the ceremony and reception for pictures. 45 minutes to an hour TOPS. Any more and guests get cranky waiting for the party to start. The B&G and family get tired, and the day starts to become a strain on all involved.

As the photographer you have a lot to do with the success of the entire day as people are looking forward to the celebration part of it all, and a slow photographer or poorly planned sessions can hurt the overall experience.

Do shots ahead of time. Limit the group shots within reason to make sure all are happy. Explain the time restraints to the B&G. In the end they'll be happy you kept things flowing smoothly.

[tim]

I've never had a DJ run the show - DJs tend to turn up part way into the reception and play some music when they're told to. Different markets I guess. Here photographers tend to help organise the day.

[rcanzano]

We have DJs here too that don't really get involved, but if you want the better money, you have to do the extra stuff. The last wedding the wife and I did, we even poured champagne and bussed tables. They only had one caterer and she never left the kitchen. I've even walked a mother down the isle when there was no one else to do it.

[tim]

Right, you can be the DJ when I get married :)