70-200 2.8 EX HSM. Sigma, Its GOOD. Want proof?

[Erin]

The question is always asked.

How does the 70-200 EX Sigma stack up against the 70-200 Canon IS?

Well we have people who swear the Canon IS is a much better lens because it is much more expensive and IS is an essential tool if you want sharp pics, Utter Baloney!

I am pleased to have found the work of Fred Vnoucek, who has a portfolio of sublime Nature Photographs on the photonet website.

These pics are taken in various spots around the world. Some pretty horrendous spots in fact, that only a solidly constructed lens would survive.

And what lenses does Fred use? Well these photographs where taken with the 28-70 2.8 EX Sigma the 70-200 2.8 EX Sigma and the 50-500 EX Sigma.

This is the definitive proof that in the hands of an expert photographer the Sigma is the equal to any other lens in its class, Canon included, and that IS is just a sometimes handy, overated, unessesary expense.

I challenge any of the people on this site that are "L" glass vociferous owners that insist nothing can equal "L" (we all know who they are!) to put up work from their OWN lenses that equals or is better than Freds work with the Sigmas

SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE!

When you open the link, click on any photo that catches your eye, (there will be plenty!) and a larger image will come up with lens and camera used for that photo. attached

http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&user_id=552657

I'M WAITING! This is not a flame. It is a resolution. (Pun intended!)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Fantastic!

These are so wonderfull,. a collection of images that I could only dream of. Absolutely world class.

Thanks for the link.

Your point is a good one as well (though perhaps a trifle less than diplomatic? :) )

There are good, great, and crappy lenses made by a lot of manufacturers. Those that have found Canon's finest may have good reasons and personal experience that supports the "L" only mindset. The fact is if they can afford it,. then that is wonderfull because they probably can't go wrong by using it.

However, I too am a happy Sigma owner. So I know of what you speak,.. and I know that some are missing out on the quality and bargain that Sigma EX lenses represent.

But for us downtrodden EX owners, :) ...here is a little perspective.

The truth is that just like anyone manufacturer, Sigma makes some damn crappy lenses too... we all know this.

YES many of them are fantastic!
However,. the entire "EX" line,. the lenses I love so much,. are VERY NEW.

The EX line was only introduced in 2000-2001!

Prior to that ALL sigma lenses were more "bargains".

I had the misfortune of tryng the earlier "Non EX" + "Non HSM" version of my 500mm f/4.5 EX prior to getting the EX version,. and this huge lens with the exact same "specs" as the newer EX version and was at the time of manufacture Sigma's 2nd highest priced lens, was pure JUNK! ..it was so bad that I was petrified to take the gamble on the new EX vesion. This was Sigma's finest lens and it was crap.

It is inconceivable the difference in the EX version! On paper these two versions look like the same lens,. when in fact there is no way to compare them.

If this old Sigma is the Sigma that many know,. I can not blame them for thinking that they are all junk.

So,.. anyone who has been in this business or hobby that has a memory or experience of Sigma lenses, may have very good reason to think that Sigma can't compare to "L"

Give Sigma a second look if you can,. it is worth it.

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

I use primary Sigma and also a 70-210f2.8 the older version, please look at www.doorhof.nl and you see alot of shots with this lens. I can't imagine the Canon beating this.
I see a staggering difference when I use another lens so almost constat the 70-210 is mounted :D.

Greetings,
Frank

[TimNYC]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
Fantastic!



The EX line was only introduced in 2000-2001!

Prior to that ALL sigma lenses were more "bargains".

Give Sigma a second look if you can,. it is worth it.

CDS, for the first time in months I have to STRONGLY disagree with you. My Sigma 70-210 f/2.8 APO is close to eight years old and it takes tack sharp pictures, equal to those you spoke of, and equal to those posted by Canon users with the same length zoom lens.
When I get it back from being rechipped I will prove it. Either wait until then or I will have to scan some old Elan II pics :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

TimNYC,

I did not mean it quite that way,.

I just re-read my post and I see why you would think that,. in fact,. that is exactly what I said :(

Doh!!!

But that isn't really what I meant! :(

Suffice it to say,. Sigma HAS made vast improvements to there higher end offerings with the introduction of HSM focus motors and the EX series.

In addition, by doing so they have created a very discernable line of excellent lense,. like the "L" lenses they are immediately recognizable by there EX tag,.. (well not so recognizable as an all white lens :D )

What I was TRYING to say, (but I admit I failed) is that prior to the EX line and Sigma's self instituted overhaul of there pricier optics,. it would be easy to have a 'dog" of a lens and feel that all Sigmas were created equal as there was no clear dilineation between the standard lens and the better lens.
(other than price, and as was the case with the $3,400.00 500mm even price was no guarantee)


That at least was one point I should have made clearer,.. what took me sooo far off track was the extreme difference between the EX version of the very pricey 500mm f/4.5 Vs. the old "APO" version. Buy "focusing" on that issue I ended up "dogging" all the old Sigmas,. and that was not my intention.

//read what mean not what I type :D :D :D lol

I have been an admirer of J.A.F.'s work for months now and am fully aware that he uses the "old" 70-210mm NON-EX, NON-HSM... so I do know what you mean about that lens in particular.


Still,. would love to see some of your samples :)

[Erin]

It wasn't meant to be too diplomatic, CDS. Some of the comments by 'L' owners regarding Sigma EX have been rather scathing and they should be able to handle it!

As a matter of fact I am rather amazed at "The Silence of the 'L'ambs!" in the face of this stunning evidence. (Heh Heh Heh!)

[MediaMagic]

Erin wrote:
It wasn't meant to be too diplomatic, CDS. Some of the comments by 'L' owners regarding Sigma EX have been rather scathing and they should be able to handle it!

As a matter of fact I am rather amazed at "The Silence of the 'L'ambs?" in the face of this stunning evidence. (Heh Heh Heh!)



But hey! I look so much cooler walking around with my white lenses. I don't actually take the pictures, I just walk around and aim it alot. And man, I look so cool doing it! People walk up and bow before me with complete lens envy. I even do the "sign of the lens" over their heads so they will truly feel the power of stabilization.

Pose for me Clariiiiiiise! I'll take your pikchah with some fahvah beans.... slslslslslslslslslslslslsllslslssllslp!

If that 70-200L purchase from Dell doesn't pan out, I will seriously look into this lens. It's only about a grand less expensive than the canon IS rival (at normal prices).

David

[tarves57]

Sign of the lens? How do you do that then?
Very curious.

Susan

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

I painted my Sigma 70-210 f2.8 Apo white :D.
I couldn't stand it being black.

Greetings,
Frank

[RichardtheSane]

Sign of the lens? How do you do that then?
Ah, well, you have to be an L user first, to post such privileged information here would be an open invitation to all those low life sigma users to start imitating L owners by practicing the sign.
Now what would the world come to if that where to happen. Shocking concept :D :D

(I'm an L owner who is planning to buy a sigma 70-200 F2.8EX :) )

[Dale]

Erin wrote:
The question is always asked.


http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&user_id=552657



I had the 70-200mm EX f/2.8 and it was well worth the money. Fred's photos are super. Does he have any taken with a digital camera using the same lens?

[MiG82]

I'm not questioning Sigma performance but I am questioning this testing methodology. How can you judge a lens based on resized images? Even shoddy lenses look good when the picture is resized down to a fraction of the original size and displayed at approx 100 dpi.

[henkbos]

Another "L" owner here.
Are the "L"-lenses great lenses? I think so. Most of my shots are crispy and tack sharp.
Are Sigma great lenses? Most likely and they are getting better.
The pictures in the mentioned gallery are great. Would they have been of a better quality when taken with "L"glass? We will never know.

There is a variety of factors that will decide what lens is best for you. Technical quality is just one of them. Budget, expectations and your spouses mood after seiing another bill are a few more.

BTW: I also have Sigma: 15-30 (love it) and 170-500 (not convinced yet).

[Erin]

Good to see some of you 'L' owners coming out of shock!

I have used company owned 'L's and know from personal experience that that they are GOOD too! but they now have some serious competition. If they fit into your budgeting system fine, as henkbos points out.

Here in New Zealand, Canon has dropped the price on 'L' by about 20% over the last 18 months, to compete with the opposition Not because they love Kiwis, just that they were REALLY shafting us before!

Another 3 years will be needed to establish the Sigma EXs real place, as it is only a very recent development, as CDS pointed out earlier in the thread.

Just that Fred Vnoucek is an EX Sigma pioneer at the top level at this stage of the game. A travelling photographer, not a website traveller like we all are to differing degrees.

Mig82, Have a look at the crouching Leopard pic in the Terra Africa folder, take it up to 'largest' size (scanned from slide remember) visualise all the missing pixels replaced, or a projection direct from the orginal slide. If someone said 'L' glass you would say "Of course!"

[TimNYC]

RichardtheSane wrote:
Sign of the lens? How do you do that then?
Ah, well, you have to be an L user first, to post such privileged information here would be an open invitation to all those low life sigma users to start imitating L owners by practicing the sign.
(I'm an L owner who is planning to buy a sigma 70-200 F2.8EX :) )

Soon enough you will be practicing the SIGMA SIGNS
1) Middle finger raised to snobby "L" owners
or, for the more timid Sigma owners, 2) Thumb to nose, tongue out, pointing to actual money still in the wallet :)

We welcome all with an open mind :)

*yes, this was intended to be SOMEWHAT tongue in cheek*

[CyberDyneSystems]

Uh oh!

Just to be on the safe side....

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2hdzu/pics/humor.gif


:D

[TimNYC]

LMAO......... thanks CDS !

[cardigan1979]

Hiya there Frank,

Glad to see you are enjoying using the lens (70-210mm)

Nice web site when I have time I'll be setting one up so all can have a giggle at my pix.

[jameseba]

Great picture! I am considering to buy lens for indoor and night sports like baseball, football and basketball. I wonder if sigma 70-200 f2.8 will be good enough? I email to Sigma for recommendation. They recommend new 120-300 f2.8 but it cost 1900 dollars! I wonder if 100-300 f4 will work?


I use Canon Digital Rebel SLR.

[RbnDave]

My new Sigma 70-200 f2.8 arrived today. It's great.

[Belmondo]

TimNYC wrote:
Soon enough you will be practicing the SIGMA SIGNS
1) Middle finger raised to snobby "L" owners
or, for the more timid Sigma owners, 2) Thumb to nose, tongue out, pointing to actual money still in the wallet :)

Here's another Sigma sign:
The classic 'V for Victory" sign ala Winston Churchill. In this case, it represents the number two --- the exact number of Sigma lenses that have been on my 10D, neither one of which worked.

I'm not judgmental, though. I'm always willing to try yet another one if it means that nobody will thumb their nose at me, give me the finger, or call me a snob.

Tom

[photography By Evangelos]

No doubt about it sigma has great products and they have really stepped it up with the EX line. Now to the Down side I just got my new lens today and 2 of my 10D's just will not work with this lens. Why I am not sure and it is an EX lens and I paid a lot for this lens like to the tune of $1,950 so I am not too happy. The good news is B&H is sending me a new one. I hope the new on is ok. I have never had this kind of problems with any canon "L" or EF canon lenses. I have had this problem with a few sigma lenses like the 17-35 EX HSM,50MM macro and now the 120-300 EX HSM. Not sure why but the 17-35 HSM was the worst lens I have ever used to date I had to send it in 7 times and then sold it off. I now have the Canon 17-35 L and have not had any problems and much sharper and faster. It can all to often be hit or miss with sigma let’s hope we have more hits with the new Line of EX lenses. I have the 105 EX macro and love it great lens and tack sharp and a great value. I hope my new 120-300 EX will not have any problems. At this price level it should work fine with digital camera bodies or so it should. By the way the camera bodies are freezing up and will not work at all with this lens. I had the same problem with the 17-35 HSM.

[Belmondo]

Evangelos:
Do NOT use the Canon 17-35L lens. Doing so will identify you as a snob, and people will make unfriendly gestures at you with their fingers. Do you really want that to happen?

No, you better stick with the Sigma lenses, whether they work or not.

Tom

:eyes

[RichardtheSane]

Soon enough you will be practicing the SIGMA SIGNS
1) Middle finger raised to snobby "L" owners
Uh oh......
Confusion may arise....
Will I be doing the 'L' sign, or the 'sigma finga'??
What if I have my 10D with the L on and the Eos 33 with the Sigma on with me at the same time???
What will I do then???
This is a serious matter and must be considered for all those who have L galss and Sigma glass. Save embarrasment, I think Frank said it best....
I painted my Sigma 70-210 f2.8 Apo white .
I couldn't stand it being black.
:D :D :D

(Nice one CDS :D )

[TimNYC]

belmondo wrote:
TimNYC wrote:


Here's another Sigma sign:
The classic 'V for Victory" sign ala Winston Churchill. In this case, it represents the number two --- the exact number of Sigma lenses that have been on my 10D, neither one of which worked.

Tom


Were both Sigma lenses you tried brand new lenses or were they manufactured before 2000? Any Sigma (Canon EOS compatible) manufactured before 2000 needs to be rechipped to work properly with the new Canon dslr's.

[Belmondo]

TimNYC wrote:Were both Sigma lenses you tried brand new lenses or were they manufactured before 2000? Any Sigma (Canon EOS compatible) manufactured before 2000 needs to be rechipped to work properly with the new Canon dslr's.


One was brand new. It was a 17-35, and It would not focus in broad daylight. It went back to the people who sold it. The other, a 24-70 f/2.8, was used, and I'm not sure of the vintage. The owner (a local shop) is sending it in to have it re-chipped, and I will try it again when it comes back. I'm sure not embarrassed to have a Sigma lens in my bag. It's just that so far, I haven't found one that worked.

Obviously the earlier exchange about 'hand signs' is all tongue-in-cheek. I'm sure Sigma makes good lenses, and when you get one that works, you very likely have a good, maybe great lens.

We 'L' glass users are a zealous bunch. We've paid a lot of money for the privelege. The only thing is, photography is art, and as such, should be a reflection of the artist's abilities and NOT the cost of his brushes. A box full of expensive brushes only means the artist has no excuse for mediocre pictures --- he sure can't blame the hardware.

[Littlebike]

Ah, forget what my post originally said. I JUST RECEIVED MY SIGMA 70-200 2.8 EX TODAY! IT IS PERFECT, JUST LIKE THE EBAY SELLER SAID IT WAS!

*I will not do the happy dance!

[photography By Evangelos]

photography by evangelos wrote:
No doubt about it sigma has great products and they have really stepped it up with the EX line. Now to the Down side I just got my new lens today and 2 of my 10D's just will not work with this lens. Why I am not sure and it is an EX lens and I paid a lot for this lens like to the tune of $1,950 so I am not too happy. The good news is B&H is sending me a new one. I hope the new on is ok. I have never had this kind of problems with any canon "L" or EF canon lenses. I have had this problem with a few sigma lenses like the 17-35 EX HSM,50MM macro and now the 120-300 EX HSM. Not sure why but the 17-35 HSM was the worst lens I have ever used to date I had to send it in 7 times and then sold it off. I now have the Canon 17-35 L and have not had any problems and much sharper and faster. It can all to often be hit or miss with sigma let’s hope we have more hits with the new Line of EX lenses. I have the 105 EX macro and love it great lens and tack sharp and a great value. I hope my new 120-300 EX will not have any problems. At this price level it should work fine with digital camera bodies or so it should. By the way the camera bodies are freezing up and will not work at all with this lens. I had the same problem with the 17-35 HSM.


If you are paying almost two grand on a lens you should not have problems when it is new. I guess this my point. I have never ever had problems with any canon L or EF lens to date. I have now had 3 Sigma’s with problems in the last 3 Years. This speaks for it self. Also the 24-70 F2.8 EX sigma on it's best day in not in the class of the 24-70 F 2.8 Canon L no way on earth and the same for the 17-35 Sigma it plain sucks. L or non L I just use what works for me Sigma or canon they are tools for the craft of photography and that is all. You use the tools that work for you in the environment in witch you work.
My point is my tools make me money and Sigma has let me down a few times on the job but I always have a back up in emergencies and they are often but not all the time CANON “L” and EF lenses tried and true performers when I need them to be. I know I can trust my canon lenses as I have used canon lenses for 11 years now and have not had any fail. Wish I could say the same on the camera body’s I have sent in many to canon with problems EOS A2, Elan II , EOS Elan 7, EOS 3, EOS 1V, EOS D30, EOS D60, EOS 10D to date.

[fotog]

Here is a simple test. If you could have (for free) a 70-200 2.8 canon or sigma for free which would you take. Resale does not count. This is for your bag.
Bill

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

Hi,

That's not a really fair choice, offcourse one will choose the Canon. BUT not because the Sigma is worse.
I shoot with the 70-210f2.8 Apo (the Older version) and got the chance to compare this with a L-lense from Canon, the difference between the two is not visible for my eyes and monitor. When comparing to a 135-400 F4-5.6 from Sigma the difference is night and day, even though the 135-400 is quite a nice lense.

The 70-210f2.8 Apo and the 70-200 is one major piece of glass from Sigma.

Greetings,
Frank