En-LIGHTen me!

[ilya]

Hi All,

I need advice. I'd like to set up a mini-mini-studio in my house just to take decent portraits of my family. I don't want to go all out, nor will this ever need to scale into commercial work.

Equipment now in possession: 10D, 420EX, 50 1.8, 17-40L, 28-135IS, 75-300IS, tripod and a monopod.

Here are the options I'm considering, would very much appreciate advice and guidance, as well as any other suggestions for a set-up that is reasonable and won't require permanent alterations to the house :)

1. Add 1 x 550EX ($330). The 550 goes on a camera shoe, and use the 420 as a wireless slave on a lightstand. Benefits - TTL, relatively inexpensive, should be enough for my needs (?). Need lightstand, backdrop, and 550ex (about $600 total)

2. 2 x 550 plus ST-2 Transmitter kit (B&H bundle $799). Seems like kind of overkill. I assume that either the ST or the 550s can still trigger the 420(?). Need 2 lightstands, backdrop, and kit ($1000+)

3. AlienBees Beginner Bee package ($359). Includes
1 B800 Flash Unit
1 10' General Purpose Stand
1 48" Silver/White Reversible Bounce Umbrella
1 AlienBees Single Light Carrying Bag

Seems like AB is a great deal. For about the cost of the 550EX I get a pretty sophisticated set up, and if I ever do want to scale up, its very expandable. The cons are that its not as sleek as a couple of Speedlights, its not TTL (?), its a bit bulkier, and ?

Thanks in advance for any guidance

Ilya

Edit -

Add option #4 - a couple of $70 sunpack 383s that get triggered by the 420ex. That would be I guess a really basic but inexpensive option.

[DaveG]

Or you could find a big living room window. I know that this sounds funny but all that flash/umbrella/soft box stuff are lights studying to be indirect northern window light.

I shoot all of my indoor wedding portraits using very simple lighting like this. If you want to add a bit of expense buy a couple of reflectors.

Email me and I'll send you some examples.

[rdenney]

ilya wrote:
Hi All,

I need advice. I'd like to set up a mini-mini-studio in my house just to take decent portraits of my family. I don't want to go all out, nor will this ever need to scale into commercial work.



I'm with Dave: Just use natural light. A window from one side, and a big piece of white foam board on the other to fill in the shadows, is really all you need.

Another option is to bounce your flash off a white wall, with the afformentioned board as a fill reflector.

The softer the light the better, which suggests otherwise than a camera-mounted direct flash like a 550.

Make sure you set the appropriate white balance and don't depend on the auto setting. Clear northern light is quite blue, and you'll want the open shade setting. The ability to set the white balance is a wonderful feature of the digital cameras--you can even use normal room light and get pleasing portraits.

Use a tripod--you might need a slowish shutter speed.

Rick "who has a complete studio lighting setup but who uses it only when necessary" Denney

[ilya]

Thanks! I'm into not spending money if I don't have to.

Although - if the room where this can be done is a bit challenged on the amount of light coming in, and also if one wanted to go from pleasing to borderline professional looking, what would you recommend?

Thanks again
Ilya

[Vegas Poboy]

Well, I'm kinda of working on the same set up. The 420 is a great flash only for auto settings on the camera. Its going to fire full flash everytime as a slave. I tried it blown out the fill way too much. Again the 420 is pretty much and auto flash. Bees makes good lamps from what I hear but I truely think that one good lamp and a refelector for fill can make most customers happy. The 550 setup is nice but when you complete that set it cost as much as a full set of lamps. Personaly I'm head towards the bees digital package but not in a hurry.

[mskad]

I have 2 AB400 with bogen 3333 lightstands and 2 Eclipse+ 45" umbrella. It's awesome! You won't regret it. Nothing to do with small flash units.

[DaveG]

ilya wrote:
Thanks! I'm into not spending money if I don't have to.

Although - if the room where this can be done is a bit challenged on the amount of light coming in, and also if one wanted to go from pleasing to borderline professional looking, what would you recommend?

Thanks again
Ilya

For individual portraits you should be in good shape in most rooms for most of the day. As I said I shoot most of my wedding portraits this way and they are always in someone else's living or hotel room.

I use a Mamiya Pro-TL with a 145 soft lens. This lens is an f4 wide open and that's the aperture I need to use to get the most pleasing effects. My shutterspeed varies from 1/15 of a second to 1/60 and that's with ISO 400 colour neg film rated at ei 250. Of course this is all shot with the camera on a stable tripod.

It is much more of a challenge with two people as depth comes into the equation. Still I seem to manage.

If you are looking to do small groups which do have more depth, then a studio strobe set-up with umbrellas (cheaper than softboxes) would be my suggestion. But you will need at least two in order to get lighting ratios.

I get ratios with window light this way: I have the subject sit on a chair looking directly into the window light. I'm near the wall close to the window at roughly 45 degrees to the subject. Then I turn the subject so that her face is looking into the camera. This causes some light fall off on the side of her face farthest from the window, and this is the lighting ratio. You can control this fall off with a reflector to push back some light into this shadow as you see fit.

With studio flashes you have to make your own ratios. You set up a main flash and let's say it's 45 degrees from the camera position. The fill flash has to be (by definition) no more than 20 degrees from the camera position so that the subject's face gets the same amount of light on both sides. The main light should be about one stop (measured alone) brighter than the fill. Without going into detail this will give you a 3:1 lighting ratio. There will be an obvious bright side but the shadow will have enough light to preserve detail. Any film or digital capture will have enough latitude to handle this one stop.

Of course you will need a flash meter to measure the output of these studio strobes. You could do it by trial and error with the review feature on a DSLR but it'd take forever.

After these two flashes you might want to add a backlight &/or a hair light. But the primary stuff is main (sometimes called the Key light) and fill.

[w10d]

I'd echo what other people have said: It's hard to beat good daylight when you're photographing people. I think you will be struggling to produce pleasing or professional studio results if you are using speedlights, what's more the amount of technology squeezed into their tiny size makes them incredibly expensive as studio flash units.

I don't know this AB equipment (I guess it's for the US market?), but a simple studio flash set-up should be cheaper and more flexible (in the studio) than speedlights. I'd suggest you budget for a flash meter, but initially you could just fire off a few frames and judge the histograms.

(BTW - I'm not bashing speedlights here: they are incredible flash units, just not ideal as studio light sources)

[scottbergerphoto]

I don't know where you live, but daylight changes from day to day and from hour to hour where I live. You also need a large window with room for people to pose in front of. Since I dont have that, I use a large softbox on a strobe as my main light with one or two other strobes as fill and hair lights. I like the fact that the results are the same regardless of weather conditions or window availability. I also like the very soft white light it produces. I find sun light a little harsh. I'm not worried about E-TTL. I use a Sekonic L358 and set my strobes and camera manually.

Scott

[ilya]

Thanks so much everyone. Really appreciate the input.

I think I agree that to get consistent results I need a strobe setup. There is the added cost of a light meter. What's the cheapest brand/model I can get away with?

Under scenario of getting one AB strobe as the main light, presumably I can use the 420 as the fill -- is it recommended I take it off camera? If yes, I would need something like the off camera shoe cord - but that thing is only 2 feet, are there any other ways to trigger the 420 perhaps wirelessly? Or is the fill light ok on camera.

mskad - you reco the 2 bees, or is one bee enough for me to start?

Thanks again

Ilya

[rdenney]

ilya wrote:
Thanks so much everyone. Really appreciate the input.

I think I agree that to get consistent results I need a strobe setup. There is the added cost of a light meter. What's the cheapest brand/model I can get away with?

Under scenario of getting one AB strobe as the main light, presumably I can use the 420 as the fill -- is it recommended I take it off camera? If yes, I would need something like the off camera shoe cord - but that thing is only 2 feet, are there any other ways to trigger the 420 perhaps wirelessly? Or is the fill light ok on camera.

mskad - you reco the 2 bees, or is one bee enough for me to start?

Thanks again

Ilya

If you are going to buy studio lights, don't go in half measures. I've done pro lighting setups before with speedlights, and it's just a big pain to get it right.

Go ahead and buy two real studio lights. Soft boxes are expensive, and umbrellas don't diffuse as well. So I compromised and use a shoot-through umbrella. The only downside to it is that it fills the room behind the camera with light and that will affect your subject lighting unless your walls are black.

If two lights are just impossible, then use a reflector board. That will still give you the predictability without costing as much. Put it just outside the frame--the closer it is, the more fill light you get.

And, yes, you'll need a flash meter. You can get a used Wein for around fifty bucks on ebay, and it does work though it isn't as flexible as the newer flash meters.

Make sure any flash you buy has a low-voltage trigger. I bought an old Speedotron Brown Line setup and had to buy the low-voltage adaptor to keep it from frying the flash synch circuit on the camera.

I am accustomed to my old Speedotrons, but were I to buy new, I'd get monolights.

But be warned: The big difference between pro-looking lighting and amateur lighting is not the monolights. The big difference is knowing where to put them, and how to balance them. If you know that, you can do just as well in many situations with natural light.

Rick "who is always trying to make his studio lights look like natural lighting" Denney

[w10d]

I think I agree that to get consistent results I need a strobe setup. There is the added cost of a light meter. What's the cheapest brand/model I can get away with?

I bought the lowest price Sekonic flash meter about 10 years ago, and I've never felt the need for anything more expensive. I was very familiar with the Minolta models as an assistant, but haven't missed any of their features.

You may well find a use for the speedlight, perhaps as a catch light. You could look at making a giant softbox out of whatever comes to hand with a sheet of spun or diffusion accross the front. In the studio I usually build these things from 8x4' polystyrine boards, with 2 heads inside you have a large and powerful softbox. Definately 2 heads will give you a lot more flexibility - but I don't know the flash system you're thinking of buying, so can't comment on what bits to get!

[Longwatcher]

I own a pair of 550EX speedlites. Your 420EX would work as the second flash just fine.

The 550EXs do a wonderful job when I can't carry a studio around with me. Add a reflector for extra fill and the two setups that work best are

1. If white ceiling available: bounce camera flash off ceiling and using diffuser aim second 550EX at subject. If have reflector aim at reflector without diffuser instead.

2. If outdoor: diffuser down camera flash directly at subject, second speedlight also with diffuser down (wide angle flash) put on tripod up as high as possible (or about 15 feet) aim in general vicinity of subject. Again if have reflector aim camera flash without diffuser at reflector.

Even better is to get a home depot work light and use that for the main light and then otherwise use setup 1. I have gotten best results that way.

All of the above said:
As soon as I can save up the money I am getting a set of White-Lightnings (higher end Alien Bees). The 550EX are wonderful, but limiting compared to what studio stobes can do.

Just my experience and opinion,

[scottbergerphoto]

Re: Softboxes: You can get a softbox attachment for most strobes that is relatively inexpensive. They attach with a speed ring.

Re: Lightmeters: The Sekonic L358 gives you the option of adding a wireless module for $25 that you can use to fire your strobes for metering in conjunction with a Pocket Wizard set up. It is a wireless system that allows you to do away with PC cords.
Scott

[ruby]

Hi Dave,
I was wondering if you could post an example. I am also looking into buying a lighting setup for my d60. I have a loft though with one side being all window so I get ALOT of really soft ambiant light. I was wondering what would be the best thing to add to this? 1 mono light?
Thanks Ruby

[DaveG]

ruby wrote:
Hi Dave,
I was wondering if you could post an example. I am also looking into buying a lighting setup for my d60. I have a loft though with one side being all window so I get ALOT of really soft ambiant light. I was wondering what would be the best thing to add to this? 1 mono light?
Thanks Ruby

I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.

[robertwgross]

DaveG wrote:
I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.


See Help at the top of this page. Then look for Embed Image.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

robertwgross wrote:
DaveG wrote:
I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.


See Help at the top of this page. Then look for Embed Image.

---Bob Gross---



Yeah that really helps. Not.

[ilya]

DaveG wrote:
robertwgross wrote:
DaveG wrote:
I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.


See Help at the top of this page. Then look for Embed Image.

---Bob Gross---



Yeah that really helps. Not.

Dave,

[ img ] insert your link here (with no spaces) followed by [ /img ]

Hope that helps
Ilya

[DaveG]

ilya wrote:
DaveG wrote:
robertwgross wrote:
DaveG wrote:
I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.


See Help at the top of this page. Then look for Embed Image.

---Bob Gross---



Yeah that really helps. Not.

Dave,

[ img ] insert your link here (with no spaces) followed by [ /img ]

Hope that helps
Ilya


My problem is that I just want to email the image - just like the message, not have it (apparentlty) hosted somewhere else.

[ilya]

DaveG wrote:
ilya wrote:
DaveG wrote:
robertwgross wrote:
DaveG wrote:
I don't know how to post an image on this site. Email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you one.


See Help at the top of this page. Then look for Embed Image.

---Bob Gross---



Yeah that really helps. Not.

Dave,

[ img ] insert your link here (with no spaces) followed by [ /img ]

Hope that helps
Ilya


My problem is that I just want to email the image - just like the message, not have it (apparentlty) hosted somewhere else.


Email it to ilyac@comcast.net and I'll post it

ilya

[robertwgross]

DaveG wrote:
Yeah that really helps. Not.

Gee, I'm sorry that you could not understand my pointer.

If people do not find where the Help instructions are already stated on this forum, then they will be asking for the same help over and over. Once they find the Help instructions, then it gets simple. I simply pointed to Help.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

"Hi Dave,
I was wondering if you could post an example. I am also looking into buying a lighting
setup for my d60. I have a loft though with one side being all window so I get ALOT of
really soft ambiant light. I was wondering what would be the best thing to add to this? 1
mono light?"

The window light would be the main light so all that you'd be looking to do would be to
add some fill. This could be done as easily and cheaply as using some white foam core
as a reflector. Since you are reflecting light, by definition it can't be as bright as the
source, so it'd have to be the fill. You can get foam core at most art supplies stores and
you might want to ask for damaged pieces. You are just using them to reflect light and
you’ll ding ‘em sooner rather than later so the shop may be happy to sell you a (cheap)
damaged piece. Interestingly the foam core is easily obtained with white on one side and
black on the other. The BLACK can be used as an background or even to create a
negative fill.

I've sent a couple of shots to the site as the other poster suggested, and I'm sure he will
post them, and I thank him for that. These are non digital shots but the principles are the
same. In both of these shots there is NO fill at all. The light is just that big happy soft
window light. I like to place candles in the background of these types of portraits, as it
adds a sense of place and depth.

The lens is a Mamiya 145 f4 soft lens. It has a tremendous (infinite?) capability to vary
softness, with a rotating front element that causes softness which is also affected by the
aperture. You may or may not like the softness and there is no right or wrong in that, it’s
just what you like.

[WestFalcon]

ILYA......I have been in photography for over 30 years and you can get gorgeous shots from One alien bee unit and an umbrella. I often use a relector to fill the shadow side....Looks fantastic!!

[TonyKInTexas]

I'll jump in because I have some experience with this.

I started off with a Vivitar 285Hv. Good for what it is but it is limited.

Graduate to a Metz54 for the Canon. I wanted auto and ETTL as well as manual. An improvement over the Vivitar. ETTL is different and takes some practice to get right.

Last summer I jumped up to 2 AB units (a B400 and a B800), softboxes, etc. I never looked back.

*IF* you need flash I suggest the AB units. If you need portable flash I suggest the Metz54. In fact, depending on your work you might want both at some point. I carry my Metz with me for those times when I need some fill to soft shadows.

The suggestions about large windows and form core reflectors are 100% on the money. Nothing can replace natural light in my book.

Take care and have fun.

ilya wrote:
Hi All,

I need advice. I'd like to set up a mini-mini-studio in my house just to take decent portraits of my family. I don't want to go all out, nor will this ever need to scale into commercial work.

Equipment now in possession: 10D, 420EX, 50 1.8, 17-40L, 28-135IS, 75-300IS, tripod and a monopod.

Here are the options I'm considering, would very much appreciate advice and guidance, as well as any other suggestions for a set-up that is reasonable and won't require permanent alterations to the house :)

1. Add 1 x 550EX ($330). The 550 goes on a camera shoe, and use the 420 as a wireless slave on a lightstand. Benefits - TTL, relatively inexpensive, should be enough for my needs (?). Need lightstand, backdrop, and 550ex (about $600 total)

2. 2 x 550 plus ST-2 Transmitter kit (B&H bundle $799). Seems like kind of overkill. I assume that either the ST or the 550s can still trigger the 420(?). Need 2 lightstands, backdrop, and kit ($1000+)

3. AlienBees Beginner Bee package ($359). Includes
1 B800 Flash Unit
1 10' General Purpose Stand
1 48" Silver/White Reversible Bounce Umbrella
1 AlienBees Single Light Carrying Bag

Seems like AB is a great deal. For about the cost of the 550EX I get a pretty sophisticated set up, and if I ever do want to scale up, its very expandable. The cons are that its not as sleek as a couple of Speedlights, its not TTL (?), its a bit bulkier, and ?

Thanks in advance for any guidance

Ilya

Edit -

Add option #4 - a couple of $70 sunpack 383s that get triggered by the 420ex. That would be I guess a really basic but inexpensive option.