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bartoj11
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:09
Just wondering which color space people are using (sRGB or Adobe) and why?? What's the difference???

-Bart

Billginthekeys
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:11
AdobeRGB will pick up a higher range of colors, this will come in handy for post processing and printing of the pictures. If you are taking pictures to print, adobergb will look better. but for pictures you just plan on having for personal pleasure, or to post online, ones taken in adobergb can tend to look more flat in color to the average monitor, so for snapshots and not so serious stuff shoot sRGB. at least thats my take on it

Keiffer
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:12
RGB. has more color ranges. SRGB if your just posting for web. Also I believe most photolabs use SRGB. SO if your printing at home, RGB....If your only posting pics on websites or getting your prints done at photo labs than SRGB

FlashZebra
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:32
RGB. has more color ranges.
RGB is not a colorspace, it is a scheme to indicate the underlying defining color system used (like RGB, CMYK, or LAB, and there are several others).

If you mean the colorspace Adobe RGB (or more correctly Adobe RGB - 1998 ) you cannot leave the "Adobe" part off.

There are many RGB colorspaces. Here are a just a few of the more popular.

sRGB
Adobe RGB - 1998
Bruce RGB
Apple RGB
Colormatch RGB
Ekta Space PS5 RGB
ProPhoto RGB

Enjoy! Lon

JRJay
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:37
AdobeRGB will pick up a higher range of colors, this will come in handy for post processing and printing of the pictures. If you are taking pictures to print, adobergb will look better.

If this is true, then why do a lot of photo labs use sRGB?

FlashZebra
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:39
Adobe RGB - 1998 is a colorspace with a larger gamut (than sRGB). Most specifically there are just more colors in the cyan region. Adobe RGB –1998, might be useful if you are printing images, especially if the images are rich in the cyan area.

But, monitors cannot display the wide gamut available in Adobe RGB –1998. So you will not be able to see these cyan colors on your monitor.

sRGB was specifically designed to match the available colors of the typical monitor.

So, choose your color space based on what you intend to do with your files.

If you intend a hardcopy print as the primary purpose, Adobe RGB –1998, would be a good choice.

If you intend them for monitor or web display, sRGB is likely to be a better choice.

See:
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Color_Spaces_01.htm

Enjoy! Lon

BryanP
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:41
If this is true, then why do a lot of photo labs use sRGB?

Probably because the main crowd who would print their shoots in sRGB (wild guess), but I doubt people with P+S who also prints at the local spot would know much about aRGB, and not everyone uses DSLRS and really messes with colorspaces in general. Again, just a wild guess :oops:

FlashZebra
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:44
If this is true, then why do a lot of photo labs use sRGB?
The LCD (least common denominator) has grand appeal. Even in places other than an a 5th grade math class.

Why are most newspapers geared toward a 5th grade (or lower) reading and vocabulary level?

Why is there clothing with the size, one-size, fits-all (actually it is typically one-size, fits-nobody)?

Enjoy! Lon

psy4fun
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 20:29
I began using sRGB and Adobe RGB but recently switch to ProPhoto RGB. As soon I started to use Prophoto RGB, I observe less out-of-gamut colors when soft-proofing in the color space of printers like Noritsu and Frontier, and color confidence was better attained in prints. Besides the wider gamut of Prophoto, I think the main question here isn't only quantity, but mainly quality.

Some theoretical and practical aspects of ProPhoto RGB is discussed here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/prophoto-rgb.shtml

SeanH
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 21:13
Adobe RGB - 1998 is a colorspace with a larger gamut (than sRGB). Most specifically there are just more colors in the cyan region. Adobe RGB 1998, might be useful if you are printing images, especially if the images are rich in the cyan area.

But, monitors cannot display the wide gamut available in Adobe RGB 1998. So you will not be able to see these cyan colors on your monitor.

sRGB was specifically designed to match the available colors of the typical monitor.

So, choose your color space based on what you intend to do with your files.

If you intend a hardcopy print as the primary purpose, Adobe RGB 1998, would be a good choice.

If you intend them for monitor or web display, sRGB is likely to be a better choice.

See:
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Color_Spaces_01.htm

Enjoy! Lon

So if you are not going to actually adjust the color and just make the normal adjustments such as sharpen, burn, dodge, crop......maybe levels or curves, Is there a negitive in just using Adobe RGB for everything? Personally I have very few shoots that I know for a fact I will be using print only.

JRJay
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 22:18
The LCD (least common denominator) has grand appeal.

That makes sense. Do you know of any photo labs that support other color spaces as well?

Billginthekeys
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 22:29
So if you are not going to actually adjust the color and just make the normal adjustments such as sharpen, burn, dodge, crop......maybe levels or curves, Is there a negitive in just using Adobe RGB for everything? Personally I have very few shoots that I know for a fact I will be using print only.
I wouldnt say there is a real disadvantage. i for one keep it on adobe rgb all the time

FlashZebra
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 23:09
So if you are not going to actually adjust the color and just make the normal adjustments such as sharpen, burn, dodge, crop......maybe levels or curves, Is there a negitive in just using Adobe RGB for everything? Personally I have very few shoots that I know for a fact I will be using print only.
Well whither or not you are going to adjust the color, or not would not be a factor I would use to choose an RGB color space.

I would not sweat this, jut pick Adobe RGB or sRGB and stick with it. It is very unlikely either way will affect you much.

Enjoy! Lon

FlashZebra
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 23:15
That makes sense. Do you know of any photo labs that support other color spaces as well?
I am reasonably sure sure that some will support Adobe RGB, and most likely a few will support some of the more obscure ones, but I am unsure of which ones they might be.

I do almost all of my printing on my own inkjet printer, so it is not an issue that I deal with directly.

There are some commercial printers that will supply you with the color profile of the printer they are using (but that is not the same thing as a RGB colorspace profile). I think this may be common with those that use the Fuji Frontier printers.

I think there is even a website that deals specifically with printer profiles for commercial labs, but I am unsure of the link. Possibly other might have this info.

Enjoy! Lon

DrPablo
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 23:36
I shoot RAW, edit in ProPhoto RGB and LAB, and save in sRGB.

Adobe RGB is tiny compared with ProPhoto RGB. In fact LAB is the only color space larger than ProPhoto -- and LAB will always be the largest because it can mathematically encode millions of colors that can't be represented.

I edit in LAB for its power and flexibility, but I edit in ProPhoto specifically to preserve detail in saturated colors. CMYK and sRGB are fine at showing differences between red and green, but where they fail to show gradations is with highly saturated colors. Because, mathematically again, saturation is tied to luminosity, even a change in curves or levels or brightness can completely saturate colors that were getting there already. So you can essentially clip detail by editing in a small color space.

So my philosophy is don't convert to the small color space until the end -- there's a chance that you'll carry more detail through to the very last step.

blonde
13th of July 2006 (Thu), 23:51
i used to use aRGB but smugmug asks to use sRGB for their prints so thats what i am doing. i actually got my profile from them and my prints have been spot on...

chtgrubbs
14th of July 2006 (Fri), 14:42
If this is true, then why do a lot of photo labs use sRGB?
Because most amateur photographers don't know the difference, and bring in jpegs straight from a camera that has put them in the S-RGB space.

Picture North Carolina
14th of July 2006 (Fri), 19:04
Probably because the main crowd who would print their shoots in sRGB (wild guess), but I doubt people with P+S who also prints at the local spot would know much about aRGB, and not everyone uses DSLRS and really messes with colorspaces in general. Again, just a wild guess :oops:

A good wild guess. The overwhelming percentage of consumers who frequent the 1-hour corner photolabs

(1) don't even have a clue what color space is
(2) are even more clueless about what gamut is
(3) don't own cameras or software that allow them to choose color space
(4) don't give a darn what color space is

BigRed450
14th of July 2006 (Fri), 20:22
I shoot RAW, edit in ProPhoto RGB and LAB, and save in sRGB.

Adobe RGB is tiny compared with ProPhoto RGB. In fact LAB is the only color space larger than ProPhoto -- and LAB will always be the largest because it can mathematically encode millions of colors that can't be represented..

L*a*b* actually has a smaller color Gamut then sRGB. You will loose color information when Converting to L*a*b* and chance color shifts when converting back.

Saving in sRGB is defeating the whole purpose of editing in ProPhotoRGB. You will be loosing color information when you save.

8 color printers are capable of printing the color gamut of Adobe RGB whereas 4 color printers are not.

Shoot in AdobeRGB for jpeg, process in AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB and save as such.

Convert only to sRGB if printing on a 4 color printer or processing for web viewing..

Lord_Malone
14th of July 2006 (Fri), 20:26
L*a*b* actually has a smaller color Gamut then sRGB. You will loose color information when Converting to L*a*b* and chance color shifts when converting back.

Saving in sRGB is defeating the whole purpose of editing in ProPhotoRGB. You will be loosing color information when you save.

8 color printers are capable of printing the color gamut of Adobe RGB whereas 4 color printers are not.

Shoot in AdobeRGB for jpeg, process in AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB and save as such.

Convert only to sRGB if printing on a 4 color printer or processing for web viewing..

Makes sense. Thanks!

LavaBox
15th of July 2006 (Sat), 01:23
Good reading guys! I bought my 9600 about a month ago and LOVE it. Decided I wanted something to bring in large files of my own and picked up the 5D and some good glass. I have dealt with this issue more on the printing side as I have only had the camera a few days. Printing an aRGB file is a little tricky because of what has been said, your monitor cannot display the colors, so what you see on screen, may not be what comes out of the printer. You can even see it in photoshop when you move the picker over your color pallete, some colors have the little warning sign and show a different color. It seems sRGB is more of a blend of standard cameras, scanners, monitors, and printers capabilitys to smooth out the flow of the work going through. But I think I believe if you want the best representation of what your camera saw when you snapped your picture, it would be aRGB. Especially if you plan to print on an Epson 7 or 8 color printer which has the ability to print more colors that a Lambda printer.

gcobb
15th of July 2006 (Sat), 19:55
This is good info. I had been using RGB after shooting RAW and using Arcsoft Photo Studio to crop, resize and save. I probably need to look at something else that won't cause me to lose detail or color.

NeoDude
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:01
I used to use Adobe RGB but have changed to using sRGB all the time. When using Adobe RGB you are sacrificing intermediate tones to gain those extra colours. The hassle of converting is not worth it in my opinion.

poind
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:03
There are some commercial printers that will supply you with the color profile of the printer they are using (but that is not the same thing as a RGB colorspace profile). I think this may be common with those that use the Fuji Frontier printers.

I think there is even a website that deals specifically with printer profiles for commercial labs, but I am unsure of the link. Possibly other might have this info.

Site-specific printer profiles are at the following (Costco in particular seems to be good about providing them):

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/


And though it's pretty much been covered already....

Adobe RGB requires proper color management settings to use, and isn't displayed properly on the web with browsers like Internet Explorer.

sRGB, being literally "standard" RGB, is safer for the average person who doesn't get too heavily into proper software settings and just wants things to more-or-less "work". If the average consumer shot in Adobe RGB and posted their photos to the web without understanding what they were doing, they'd get frustrated by their photos not displaying properly. For that matter, their photos probably wouldn't display properly in many photo management software programs, either.

I haven't yet played around with ProPhoto RGB, but have heard/read recommendations for it (including that Luminous-Landscape article).

Here's an explanation of sRGB vs. Adobe RGB for anyone interested:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm

(At least so far, I think I've found I prefer Adobe RGB for what I gain in difficult cyans & greens (and some yellows, oranges, and magentas). Things like sky, water, and foilage turn up often, and things like sunsets are nice to take advantage of. I'm generally a lot less concerned about the extra shadow subtlety available with sRGB....)

NeoDude
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 12:21
This (http://www.smugsmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998) is a good article on the differences between sRGB and Adobe RGB.

Jon
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 17:44
Just use the one that your preferred output device suports best. If you shoot RAW ("Oh,no! Here we go again!") you can choose the space in post-processing. But using the wrong colour space for the desired output device will give you some slightly-off-looking photos.

BigRed450
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 18:37
I used to use Adobe RGB but have changed to using sRGB all the time. When using Adobe RGB you are sacrificing intermediate tones to gain those extra colours. The hassle of converting is not worth it in my opinion.

The whole point of using AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB is not just extra colors, but also extra color tones. The extra color information is the color tones between transitions from one color to the next or different shades of the same color. If you do not have a color printer capable of printing AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB you will not see this difference.

Convertion is NO hassle. You set up your work space in your photo editor and camera to AdobeRGB and only convert those to sRGB that need be used on the net. If your printer will only print sRGB (4-6 color printers) then a simple step in PS will convert. Once converted to sRGB you cannot go back.

NeoDude
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 20:13
The whole point of using AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB is not just extra colors, but also extra color tones. The extra color information is the color tones between transitions from one color to the next or different shades of the same color. If you do not have a color printer capable of printing AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB you will not see this difference.

Thats just the point I was making. In using Adobe RGB and stretching out to those extra colours you are losing intermediate tones. I agree that ProPhotoRGB will give you extra tones because it is designed to be used with 16-bit images. But both sRGB and Adobe RGB are designed for use with 8-bit images, i.e. 256 tones per channel. If you have a wider gaumet then you are sacrificing intermediate tones.

The article I linked to in my last post explains it better than I can.

psy4fun
16th of July 2006 (Sun), 21:23
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating :)

Get some pics and work on it in Adobe, sRGB and ProPhoto color spaces. Compare the results and try to meter the spended work and the quality. Print and, again, compare the results. Now you can decide what color space will work better to *YOUR* needs.

Alex