POTN Safari around South/West Africa - we are baaack :-) [Archive] - Page 2

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condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 03:53

Yup, that's looking about right. 500km's is pushing it but is worth it for the first day to get off to a good start. 300-350km's is fine and fairly relaxed. 350-400km's is a good average when on a tight shedule.

I'm currently looking at combining Etosha with Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park as the core of the trip. That would really be a great combo. Everything else would be fitted around those two. A second option is Etosha and Okavango delta. In some ways I prefer this as there is no doubling back and I haven't been there before ;-) Also, gives a very different flavour to the very dry, semi desert Etosha and Kgalagadi landscapes, plus chance to see some different animal like Crocs, Hippo and water birds.

I'm also looking at flying straight to Windhoek instead as it will save 3-4 days. Just another option which might allow some time for things like seeking out desert elephants NW of Etosha. Problem there is getting the right vehicles at the right price there without the usual high insurance excesses that are standard in Namibia! I'll probably do a couple of alternative route options for people to consider.

Olli

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 04:53

Have you been considering to get sponsorship from Canon or other companies?

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 05:07

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 05:20

Just checked 2 sites for airflight price Copenhagen->Windhoek and the price is almost 3 times as high as to Cape Town or Johannesburg. Obvioulsly need more checking as I could not search later than june 2007.

Yes, that is an issue because there are simply fewer airlines and I dunno if Denmark has a 'bucket shop' market for cheap seats. We'll get a better idea of costs 11-12 months in advance, ie August/September time.

I found prices ranged from around £500-950 from London for May/June. Air Namibia seem the cheapest, South African Airlines, Virgin and BA are good airlines I've used before, but more expensive. An option is to get a cheap flight to London and then join me on a flight to Namibia, if we go that route. Cheapest London to Cape Town or JHB flights seem to be around £420-500.

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 05:29

I found prices ranged from around £500-950 from London for May/June. Air Namibia seem the cheapest, South African Airlines, Virgin and BA are good airlines I've used before, but more expensive. An option is to get a cheap flight to London and then join me on a flight to Namibia, if we go that route. Cheapest London to Cape Town or JHB flights seem to be around £420-500.

It was Air Namibia price I got in both instances and it was about £1400. I can get london tickets for about £100-£200

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 05:57

this is the best i have found
Airfares to Windhoek Namibia

South African Airways offers daily service to Windhoek, Namibia from the USA. Flights are from New York JFK or Washington Dulles to Johannesburg with connecting service onwards to Windhoek. Fares start at $975 roundtrip plus airport tax of approx $339.

To request availabity of airfares from the USA to Windhoek , Namibia please click here to send an e-mail or call us on 1-866 856 6161 option # 1 from 9am to 5.30pm eastern.

SAA Special Windhoek , Namibia Fares - from New York or Washington Dulles.

Peak Season 2006 - 1st June 06 to 20th August 06

Fares start at $1555 plus tax*

Shoulder Season 2006 - 21st August 06 to 6th October 06

Fares start at $1200 roundtrip plus tax.*

*Airport taxes approx $339 from New York or Washington.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 06:00

Have you been considering to get sponsorship from Canon or other companies?

Can't be bothered personally. They would get little value from it that I can see. Not like people at POTN don't buy Canon gear ;-)

The trip would make a good video tho'. Imagine ... 4-6 strangers converging and spending 3 weeks together in a strange land :lol: :lol: Maybe someone will bring one.

I like the new album Olli. I have been assessing JAlbum myself and looks very good. Some lovely shots there too.

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:19

I bought a couple maps yesterday so I can try to keep track of these different routes you've been suggesting... :) No doubling back certainly sounds like a good idea...

I can fly direct from Denver to London.... I'll have to check out the flights that Patrick (is it Patrick?) has found direct from NY or DC.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:32

I bought a couple maps yesterday so I can try to keep track of these different routes you've been suggesting... :) No doubling back certainly sounds like a good idea...

It is complicated as we are looking across such vaste areas, trying to not drive too far each day, which is dangerous and tiring, find accommodation at logical stop off points and prioritise what we see. I am relying on online maps at the moment, tho I have a South Africa map book. I can't find my Southern Africa map :-(

The two areas that are sticky at the moment for the Etosha and Okavango option are along the Caprivi Strip NE Namibia into Chobe/Okavango and then across from Maun to the Namibian/Botswana border and back to Windhoek. Both are very long with not that many inexpensive accommodation options. Camping could be the solution, or for Caprivi just stay a night in somewhere a tad up more market around Popa Falls area.

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:37

Well, given the choice between very $$$$$ and camping, camping wins out for me every time. But do I remember correctly that you lean in the other direction? :)

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:45

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:54

It was what they posted I'm guessing that always could change being the nature of the bussness. I'm sure a phone call would better so you could talk to someone. I'm willing to bet there is some wiggle room.

the web site
http://www.travelspark.com/South_African_Airways_Namibia_Airfares/

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 07:56

It can be hard travelling in Africa and a good sleep is important when you are up early for game drives or have a long drive the next day. I do want to camp but not every day at my age :p We can compromise and ideally camp when there is a real joy in doing it like out in a wilderness area campsite. There is a lot of extra hassle camping even tho you save money.

It will all become clearer soon. Key is sorting route and dates and then other stuff flows from that. What we did before was book the main park accommodation and then rely more on spec for the in between days/towns. This is much harder with a larger group as fewer options. I think we will have to that in park anyway, but I want as much as possible clearer in advance.

Flights seem expensive ... maybe I need to add in a JHB start/end route too as you US guys seem to get fleeced on fairs and ZA cities are cheaper by far. Are the Windhoek fairs direct and via which airline?

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:02

Flights seem expensive ... maybe I need to add in a JHB start/end route too as you US guys seem to get fleeced on fairs and ZA cities are cheaper by far. Are the Windhoek fairs direct and via which airline?

The flights I checked were from Boston>JFK New York>Johannesburg>Windhoek. I checked flights from NY (instead of leaving from Boston) and they weren't that much different.

I also checked fares to JHB and Cape Town and they weren't significantly lower ($2291 to JHB and $2422 to Cape Town).

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:09

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:15

Thanks Patrick! I also checked cheapflights.com and found some prices that were much more reasonable than on the SAA site.

As for camping vs. someplace more upscale, I like camping but it might be nice if sometime towards the middle of the trip to stay someplace nice for a night (just as a break!)

Could be worth checking Boston/London stopover and then London/whereever. Also, be good to ask A2zAfrica as he goes to Africa regularly. I think he goes via London.

The upmarket suggestion was for the Caprivi Strip route for one night. Not the whole trip ;-) There are campsites there too. The Parks accommodation is good and very reasonably priced.

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:16

Thanks Patrick! I also checked cheapflights.com and found some prices that were much more reasonable than on the SAA site.

As for camping vs. someplace more upscale, I like camping but it might be nice if sometime towards the middle of the trip to stay someplace nice for a night (just as a break!)

Oh yeah! I didn't mean camp every night. :) And, like Dave said, the route we take may be the determining factor in accomodations.

Becca... do you have any options to fly to London and then on from there? I'm gonna have to poke around some more, but I thought one of the options I tracked down from Denver would take me to London and then (Cape Town? don't remember which search I was doing) for a little over $2000.

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:20

Could be worth checking Boston/London stopover and then London/whereever.

The upmarket suggestion was for the Caprivi Strip route for one night. Not the whole trip ;-) There are campsites there too. The Parks accommodation is good and very reasonably priced.

I'll check that out. I know I flew to London last year for around $400 so that might be a viable option.

I didn't mean that we would stay upmarket the entire trip. I just meant for one night for a change. I do like camping. In fact, I never stayed in a hotel until I was in college! We always camped when we travelled.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:29

I do like camping. In fact, I never stayed in a hotel until I was in college! We always camped when we travelled.

Sounds like you'd make a perfect Camp Commander Becca :D

Anyone wants to research accommodation options for the Caprivy strip then feel free. I think we need somewhere maybe no more than 300kms from the Etosha exit gate and for a single night. Up there is fantastic for Elephant and birds and is much greener.

The only problem for some of you guys up there might be that Malaria is present, and into the Okavango and Chobe areas of N Botswana. So either you take care, cover well, use a net at night and take a risk, or you take the anti-malarial tablets. What y'all reckon? No point researching if y'all don't fancy it :-)

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:33

Sounds like you'd make a perfect Camp Commander Becca :D

Anyone wants to research accommodation options for the Caprivy strip then feel free. I think we need somewhere maybe no more than 300kms from the Etosha exit gate and for a single night. Up there is fantastic for Elephant and birds and is much greener.

The only problem for some of you guys up there might be that Malaria is present, and into the Okavango and Chobe areas of N Botswana. So either you take care, cover well, use a net at night and take a risk, or you take the anti-malarial tablets. What y'all reckon? No point researching if y'all don't fancy it :-)

Definitely worth the reaserch! And I've already talked to my doctor about the trip and will have the anti-malarial tablets.

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 08:56

Dave, I'm still a little rough on locations and distances in Africa. What gate of Etosha do we want to be near? It appears there is an East gate and a West gate. ;)

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:11

Dave, I'm still a little rough on locations and distances in Africa. What gate of Etosha do we want to be near? It appears there is an East gate and a West gate. ;)

Becca,

Looking at the possible routes.... I'm pretty sure he was talking about the west gate, Namutoni. (This is good. These names are, vaguely, starting to sound familiar. :) ) And, according to this map sitting on my lap, Grootfontein is about 400km east... in the general direction of the Caprivi strip.

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:12

I'm up for that..

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:13

Thanks Beth! I've got to get myself a map. I'm having a hard time just looking at the bits and trying to piece them together into the big picture.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:14

Depends what route we go. We could start wityh Etosha or end with it. Currently, I am thinking we start there and so we would enter via the South gate (Anderson) and exit via East (von Lindequist).

See here: click (http://www.namibian.org/travel/maps/etosha.htm)

There are good maps under the FAQ 'route' section, but that's nothing like having a big one unfolded in front of you ;-)

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:16

Depends what route we go. We could start wityh Etosha or end with it. Currently, I am thinking we start there and so we would enter via the South gate (Anderson) and exit via East (von Lindequist).

See here: click (http://www.namibian.org/travel/maps/etosha.htm)

LOL! Ok. I'm lost again. Back to the map. :rolleyes:

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:18

Thanks Beth! I've got to get myself a map. I'm having a hard time just looking at the bits and trying to piece them together into the big picture.

Yup. A map is a BIG help! And I'm *sill* lost. :lol:

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:22

Yup. A map is a BIG help! And I'm *sill* lost. :lol:

Ok... I'm off to the bookstore to see if I can get myself a map. Or at least a guidebook that I might be able to follow. We are looking at Namibia, Botswana and South Africa?

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:25

Ok... I'm off to the bookstore to see if I can get myself a map. Or at least a guidebook that I might be able to follow. We are looking at Namibia, Botswana and South Africa?

Yup ...

This is a very useful site which lists lots of accommodation (http://www.namibian.org/).

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 09:36

Yup ...

This is so much fun!!!!!!

I found three places in Grootfontein (if that's where we're talking about :rolleyes: ) that have web sites....

Roy's Camp http://www.namibweb.com/royscamp.htm

Guest Farm Ghaub http://www.namibweb.com/ghaubfarm.htm

Courtyard Guest House http://www.namibweb.com/courtyardgh.htm

There were quite a few others listed, but none of them had websites: http://www.namibweb.com/acc1.htm

OK. Now I need to go grocery shopping... mow the lawn... laundry... I'm going crosseyed looking at all these web sites!

saravrose

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:07

The flights I checked were from Boston>JFK New York>Johannesburg>Windhoek. I checked flights from NY (instead of leaving from Boston) and they weren't that much different.

I also checked fares to JHB and Cape Town and they weren't significantly lower ($2291 to JHB and $2422 to Cape Town).

I've already decided to take a plane out of the East coast.. Flying from this side of the country is much harder and more expensive than say a flight out of NYC.. But, considering most airlines aren't even booking for the dates we have in mind it's kind of a wait and see situation..

sari

saravrose

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:11

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:40

I feel like i'm not keeping up very well.. My computer is being fixed up right now so i'm dependent on the spare desktop which is cutting down on my time to check up.. please point out any new information that I shouldn't miss.. As for camping.. I used to do it when I was a kid.. and I like the idea in theory, but I do agree with Dave that it shouldn't be ever night two to three weeks of camping would get tiring and we will all want hot running water after a couple of days...

sari

Not to worry, Sari. Probably the best way to keep up right now is to keep an eye the web page Tommy set up. http://wiki.klein-jensen.dk/index.php/Main_Page Dave's keeping that pretty well updated. And I don't think you have to worry about 2 or 3 weeks of camping. I think we're all gonna want to be sure that EVERYone is getting in a shower on a pretty regular basis. :)

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:42

I think we're all gonna want to be sure that EVERYone is getting in a shower on a pretty regular basis. :)

Especially considering we are going to be shut up in a car for a lot of the time! :lol:

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:43

Especially considering we are going to be shut up in a car for a lot of the time! :lol:

Can I ride on the top of the car? :lol: :lol: :lol:

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:48

Can I ride on the top of the car? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Probably not too safe. Wild animals You know :lol:

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:50

As for camping. I agree a few days is fine. The closest thing to camping I have been was in the military when we on an exercise slept outside in sleepingbags during winter. No tents. I have never been on real camping with tent and all.

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 10:54

Can I ride on the top of the car? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Completely OT (Tommy... you can delete this if you want!) ...

When we came out of the Grand Canyon after 8 days without a proper shower, we had to cross the Hoover Dam and they inspect every bus. The inspector wouldn't enter the bus any further than the driver... can't figure out why? :confused:

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 11:43

Well, according to my new map :) we are (A) going to be in for some long days of driving or (B) going to be camping or (C) going to be doing shorter days and staying in expensive lodging.

From Grootfontein to Rundu, its about 250km. There are some lodges there, but they are pricey. http://www.namibiareservations.com/rundue.html

From Rundu, its about 216km to the Popa Falls area. Again, there are lodges, but they are expensive. http://www.namibiareservations.com/popafallse.html

From there, if we want to visit the Caprivi strip, its almost 500km to the Victoria Falls area but I found a place that isn't too expensive to stay. http://www.afrizim.com/Places/Victoria_Falls/Accommodation/Self_Catering/Rest_Camp.asp

Alternatively, if we decide to forego Victoria Falls, we can head south from the Popa Falls area to Maun. There seems to be quite a bit of lodging in this area. One place in particular looks ok (but what do I know of Africa!) http://www.okavangocamp.com/rates.htm#facilities

This is much easier with a guide and a map!

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 12:05

... we can head south from the Popa Falls area to Maun. There seems to be quite a bit of lodging in this area. One place in particular looks ok (but what do I know of Africa!) http://www.okavangocamp.com/rates.htm#facilities

Maun is the main town for stopping off for supplies and fuel before going up to Moremi or Chobe and the main focus for tourism activity. What we could do is arrive in Maun and then go to the local tourism office, take pot luck with availability and book as we like. There could be some last minute deals or we could end up just camping. Not the end of the world. There is plenty to do and see along that whole area.

The same applies with the main national parks tourism office in Windhoek. That's where we booked Etosha last time I went and also got info on routes and fuel stops for the Skeleton Coast. I do think we need to book Etosha well in advance as that will be one of the highlights we'll never forget. Other places I am less worried about. We do need to assure ourselves that the drives between, a smentioned, are not too long tho' and that really means planning to stop over where there is known accommodation.

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 12:17

Dave,

Do you think it would be possible to do Luderitz, Etosha and Caprivi all in one trip? Sari mentioned in a post on the OurdoorPhoto forum that she'd like to go up the west coast... and one of the folks there posted this:

and don't forget to visit Kolmanskop near Luderitz. Plan your trip well to be at your photographic destinations when the light is right. This could be difficult, but the best advice would be to be selective as to what you want to see, and then shoot at good times. My suggestions: Luderitz (camp at shark rock for the sunsets)/Kolmanskop (to see an old mining town consumed by the dunes - wonderful photographic material) and then just on the outskirts there are wild horses that should be seen, Sossusvlei early morning or evening must not be missed! Swakopmund and Walvis Bay for the dunes and a kayak trip out to the seals in Walvis bay is fantastic (something I do often). Then of course there is the north of the country, travelling up along the West Coast is an experience that is likely to change your life, it is that profound. Then in the North, Etosha is great, don't miss that. 14 days and a tremendous amount of travelling. Rent a 4x4 for safe and comfortable travelling.

Which all sounds wonderful to me! Is it doable? Or are we starting to get over-extendend there?

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 12:42

Do you think it would be possible to do Luderitz, Etosha and Caprivi all in one trip? Is it doable? Or are we starting to get over-extendend there?

I have been to all those location apart from the camp site ;) The Ghost Town is quite good and well worth a visit if near by, Luderitz we both found dull and the wild horses (actually straggled remains of the old working horses) where all a bit flea bitten. We walked around amongst them, as a break from the long drive more than anything, which was kinda fun, but again not a highlight.

So, I read that thread and I was surprised at the recommended places. Members there are mainly South African and obviously the South of the country is easily accessible to them, so maybe they don't venture far North. I dunno. The hoghlights down South were picked out but not so much further North. which is more interesting in my experience, but depends what you are looking for.

The Skelton Coast is definately worth a look as is the Namib Naukluft Park, which I enjoyed. Both a bit scary but wonderful. Thing is tho' as both are very barren too and while you will take shots, and we can get out to stretch our legs and admire the landscape now and again, there is not that much to 'see'. The big dunes are worth a look too but while I got some decent shots last time I was slightly disappointed on the whole. I enjoyed that whole part of the trip but I remember Etosha and even Waterberg best.

Going that route is an option but it is a lot of sitting in a car and I don't think it is best use of our time given potentially better alternatives in Botswana. I think the mix of Etosha and the more wetlands style of Caprivi and North/East Botswana would leave better memories and make the trip more varied. I'll go with the concensus tho' if a good case is made for going to the coastal area.

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:04

From there, if we want to visit the Caprivi strip, its almost 500km to the Victoria Falls area but I found a place that isn't too expensive to stay. http://www.afrizim.com/Places/Victor.../Rest_Camp.asp

This is also something I was looking atand would love to do.

A side note. I was thinking of shipping the medical supplies there Via mail to our first stop so it would take up space and after that we could just give it away. I would send it in a 5 gallon container whith a lid which we would also be able to use for food storage(hanging from a tree) to keep critters out. What do you guys think.

Maybe just 2 days here
Day 8 - Caprivi area

Day 9 - Caprivi area

Day 10 - Caprivi area

again two days here?
Day 12 - Drive to chosen location, settle in, game drive in afternoon.

Day 13 - Game drives approx 5.30am to 8.00 then breakfast; 2.30-5.00 then dinner.

Day 14 - Game drives approx 5.30am to 8.00 then breakfast; 2.30-5.00 then dinner.

Day 15 - Game drives approx 5.30am to 8.00 then breakfast; drive to Maun to replenish fuel, check vehicles. Drive approx 200-250km West for overnight stop.

that should give us time for vicky falls 500 k is 6 hours driving

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:21

Going that route is an option but it is a lot of sitting in a car and I don't think it is best use of our time given potentially better alternatives in Botswana. I think the mix of Etosha and the more wetlands style of Caprivi and North/East Botswana would leave better memories and make the trip more varied. I'll go with the concensus tho' if a good case is made for going to the coastal area.

I am *more* than happy to bow to your experience! I'd hate to be riding along.. and along... and along.... thinking, "This sure is an awful lot of uninteresting riding time!"

How 'bout Becca and Patrick's suggestion of Victoria Falls?

(And Patrick! That link isn't working!)

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:26

I am *more* than happy to bow to your experience! I'd hate to be riding along.. and along... and along.... thinking, "This sure is an awful lot of uninteresting riding time!"

How 'bout Patrick's suggestion of Victoria Falls?

If you like deserts then you'll enjoy it ;-) and they are worth looking at for sure, but in the trip top ten for me they would come mid range, apart from Skeleton Coast which is well up there. Problem is when you add in the massive route needed to travel to and from it then that is where some of the attraction become less attractive.

VF's could work if we go to Chobe right afterwards via the entry near there. Realistically, I think you are talking two days including getting there, good viewing time, an overnight in Victoria Falls area, then getting back into Botswana or Namibia and finding the next overnight. But there is a lot of accommodation there so could be OK. Maybe someone could check the options for getting into and out of Zambia and then into Botswana. There is a big game park near the falls that could be an alternative if we are already there.

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:38

That link was copied from the last page.. i was just revoicing it

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:40

That link was copied from the last page.. i was just revoicing it

If You see dots (...) in the link a simple cut and paste won't work then You need right-click then copy shotcut. (forum software does that to shorten long links).

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:47

Maybe someone could check the options for getting into and out of Zambia and then into Botswana. There is a big game park near the falls that could be an alternative if we are already there.

Are you talking about Moremi Wildlife Reserve? The Makgadikgadi Pans Game Reserve? ("near" is such a relative term :) )

As for getting into and out of Zambia... do you mean specific routes? Looks like the options are pretty limited according to the map I'm looking at.

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:51

condykmaybe you could ask here

overland.co.za

I would ask but you seem to know more than i do and I figured we could have one spokes person on the boards

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 13:52

That link was copied from the last page.. i was just revoicing it

Ah. OK. I backed up and found it. (And that place *does* look very reasonable.)

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 14:27

Found a great shot of quiver trees in the Kokerboom Forest:

http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/forum/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19907&cat=517

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 14:48

That's beautiful, Beth! That is one thing that I would really like to see. I read somewhere (don't remember where) that these are like huge Aloe plants.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:00

Are you talking about Moremi Wildlife Reserve? The Makgadikgadi Pans Game Reserve? ("near" is such a relative term :) ) As for getting into and out of Zambia... do you mean specific routes? Looks like the options are pretty limited according to the map I'm looking at.

It's Ok, I was going from memory and the park I thought about is actually in N. Zimbabwe, which I don't want to enter. The landing for the Kazungula Ferry between Botswana and Zambia is just a short distance from the Northern entry to the Chobe Park, which is a very good choice of place to visit. We could refuel either in Zambia or back over the border at Kasane, which is the small town at the very entry to the park.

What I suggest is that we allow two days for Victoria Falls, incl. border crossing, travel and overnight and return across the border to settle at Chobe. If we find we are behind schedule by then then we miss it out. Lots of accommodation there I believe so less risky just turning up. Parks we want to book.

Found a great shot of quiver trees in the Kokerboom Forest

They are great things to wander amongst. A bit spooky. There is a 'forest' down south that was on the original schedule, but the trees can often be seen. I am sure we will have chance to check them out.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:04

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:06

I've been looking at this and the only way into Botswana from Zambia is to use the ferry. Looks like it could be time consuming:

The river border between Botswana and Zambia.

A ferry carries 2 trucks, 1 car, and a limited number of foot passengers per trip. A round trip takes approximately one hour.
Kazungula Ferry Daily 0600 - 2000 Tel: 625-0502 Tel: 625-0320
Ferry fees: P70.00 per vehicle; P3.00 per person.

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:10

My main photo interest is wildlife and birds but will take any oportunity to photograph other subjects :D

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:12

Folks ...

What are you all interesting in shooting? Originally, the focus was wildlife but maybe you are thinking of other things. Be useful to know what you fancy seeing and shooting. That will help the route planning.

I am mainly interested in wildlife, birds and, if we see any and it it is Ok, the tribal people further North. Also some street stuff around the stopover towns and Namibia.

Although I am very interested in seeing the animals (I'm not great at shooting animals or birds), I would also like to shoot some landscapes. Are we trying to pack too much into one trip?

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:23

Another question... Is someone bringing a laptop with a CD burner? Or are we going to have to stock up on CF cards?

tommykjensen

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:34

Another question... Is someone bringing a laptop with a CD burner? Or are we going to have to stock up on CF cards?

I have an Epson P2000 I can use but thought it might be good idea to copy to cd or dvd too. I didn't make cd backups when I used it for 3 weeks in florida last year but that were completely different conditions.

Other than that I don't have a laptop except my work laptop which would be way to big to bring (its huge dell with 17" widescreen and weighs a ton).

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:46

I'm just wondering if I should invest in something like that before we go. I could buy more CF cards, but it might be cheaper to get one of these units and just transfer to it at the end of the day.

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:52

What are you all interesting in shooting?

Another thing that I thought of when thinking about what I want to see/shoot while there...

Will there be time to stop at some of the native artisans? I'm not much of a shopper, but I would love to see/purchase some things to bring back.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:53

I always take a laptop .. has CD/DVD burner. I like to backup and PP and upload to travel web site. Sometimes we will have time to kill, odd few hours here and there and so it's nice to play around with stuff and view shots. And we can teach each other things, like layers, that are a mystery to me ;-) At the end, we can compress everyones shots and give them a DVD/CD to take.

Will there be time to stop at some of the native artisans? I'm not much of a shopper, but I would love to see/purchase some things to bring back.

Plenty of that stuff around ... there is a nice place in Windhoek, like a cafe and workshops place. Was cool. Also, at roadsides and I think somewhere far north around Caprivi is famous for crafts. Can be really nice to see people at work. Great shots potentially too :-)

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 15:55

I always take a laptop .. has CD/DVD burner. I like to backup and PP and upload to travel web site. Sometimes we will have time to kill, odd few hours here and there and so it's nice to play around with stuff and view shots. And we can teach each other things, like layers, that are a mystery to me ;-) At the end, we can compress everyones shots and give them a DVD/CD to take.

That's a TERRIFIC idea! I'll make you a deal, Dave. You teach me all you know about shooting wildlife and I'll teach you all I know about Photoshop! :D (I think I would get the better end of THAT deal!)

xiphoid

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:06

Wow, this would be a dream come true for me. I just don't think I'd have the funds.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:22

That's a TERRIFIC idea! I'll make you a deal, Dave. You teach me all you know about shooting wildlife and I'll teach you all I know about Photoshop! :D (I think I would get the better end of THAT deal!)

Sure ... we all have talents to share. Even Sari has a talent for getting lost :lol: :lol:

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:25

I also tend to bring my laptop EVERYWHERE. it also has a DVD burner(duel-Layer) so I can burn disks also. It would be cool to learn more PS stuff.

I'm willing to shoot anything that will stand still long enough. and have 3 gigs of cards right now and i'm sure once this years Christmas sales begin I'll have some more(I scored a 1 gig USB drive for 20 buck last year)

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:49

Hmmm... I hadn't even considered bringing my laptop.... been bookmarking different storage devices... am considering one of these, partly because they use AA batteries. http://www.hyperdrive.com/shop/index.php?cPath=1

Landscapes, wildlife and artisans at work would be cool too.

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:51

Ok, I will leave mine at home then. I like to travel light :p

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:52

I don't think that we need to bring multiple laptops. Probably one or two would do as long as the owners are willing to share. Just more stuff to haul around and watch out for.

eenorton

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 16:54

We could refuel either in Zambia or back over the border at Kasane, which is the small town at the very entry to the park.

At one of the bazillion sites I've visited, someone said that fuel is LOTS more expensive in Zambia. Of course, I'm not sure of the date of that post... so it may not be accurate anymore

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 17:21

A side note. I was thinking of shipping the medical supplies there Via mail to our first stop so it would take up space and after that we could just give it away. I would send it in a 5 gallon container whith a lid which we would also be able to use for food storage(hanging from a tree) to keep critters out. What do you guys think.

I have never carried medical supplies that take more room than a very small toilet bag ... in fact, I use a free bag one I got off Virgin Airlines years ago which fits in a coat pocket. It's more for first aid. People will carry any personal medication, such as anti-malaria tablets themselves. I would count being savaged by a Lion or rolling the 4x4 as exceptionally unlikely so wouldn't cater for such things (otherwise, where do you ever stop?). However, I believe that the 4x4 companies also usually supply a medical kit and it is likely that will do the job. We will know closer to leaving what is supplied, if anything. All the regular stuff can be bought cheaply locally.

Food will be kept in large plastic lidded boxes we get from a supermarket and kept securely either in the vehicle or chalet. Hanging from a tree not needed.

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 17:25

Becca

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 17:27

I would count being savaged by a Lion or rolling the 4x4 as exceptionally unlikely.

That is very good news! :D

condyk

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 17:34

Speaking of food... what kinds of food are available? Are we planning on taking fresh food with us, or boxed, just-add-water stuff? Just wondering! I'm not picky... I could live for a month on mac and cheese out of a box!

We will call into a supermarket now and again and stock up mainly tinned stuff and can pick up fruit or veg as we travel through small towns. We will buy some cheap pans and tin plates and knife and forks. One each. Many camps have food on sale, including frozen meat. We can cook on BBQ's outside the hut or the range/grill inside. There are also cafes and restaurants in the towns and in many camps. The best meal I have ever had was in a ZA game park ;-) We will be fine.

holland_patrick

23rd of July 2006 (Sun), 18:53

I have never carried medical supplies that take more room than a very small toilet bag ... in fact, I use a free bag one I got off Virgin Airlines years ago which fits in a coat pocket. It's more for first aid. People will carry any personal medication, such as anti-malaria tablets themselves. I would count being savaged by a Lion or rolling the 4x4 as exceptionally unlikely so wouldn't cater for such things (otherwise, where do you ever stop?). However, I believe that the 4x4 companies also usually supply a medical kit and it is likely that will do the job. We will know closer to leaving what is supplied, if anything. All the regular stuff can be bought cheaply locally.

Food will be kept in large plastic lidded boxes we get from a supermarket and kept securely either in the vehicle or chalet. Hanging from a tree not needed.

Well just looking at the list i posted it will take up more room then that I have access to All of the non medicine stuff. such as neddles and IV sullpies which some say we should carry but I'm not sure we would need IV stuff. But I will have some splints and Ace bandages and a good amount of cling and dressings

woodsie

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 07:27

At one of the bazillion sites I've visited, someone said that fuel is LOTS more expensive in Zambia. Of course, I'm not sure of the date of that post... so it may not be accurate anymore

I think petrol prices in Zambia have been comming down lately. I managed to find this link http://www.times.co.zm/news/viewnews.cgi?category=all&id=1147635238

That works out to be about (If I have done my maths right):
Petrol: £0.90/l - €1.40/l - AU$2.25/l - US$7.20/gal
Diesel: £0.75/l - €1.15/l - AU$1.90/l - US$6.15/gal

I would expect that we would be going with diesel vehicles, and the more remote areas would be more expensive. So prices are a bit on the high side, but not exceptionally high unless you are used to the cheaper than water prices in the US.

saravrose

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 09:54

Found a great shot of quiver trees in the Kokerboom Forest:

http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/forum/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19907&cat=517

dave pointed that forum out to me.. it runs a little slow but full of information about the area and shooting locations...

sari

saravrose

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 09:58

Folks ...

What are you all interesting in shooting? Originally, the focus was wildlife but maybe you are thinking of other things. Be useful to know what you fancy seeing and shooting. That will help the route planning.

I am mainly interested in wildlife, birds and, if we see any and it it is Ok, the tribal people further North. Also some street stuff around the stopover towns and Namibia.

that is a question... well you've seen my shots. the simple and complicated answer is I will be happy shooting just about anything anywhere i'd like to say that I have a plan and an agenda for shots I want to get..But, i'll be just as thrilled with shooting a village as a lion... and I won't be bored no matter where we end up..

sari

condyk

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 13:58

That works out to be about (If I have done my maths right):
Petrol: £0.90/l - €1.40/l - AU$2.25/l - US$7.20/gal
Diesel: £0.75/l - €1.15/l - AU$1.90/l - US$6.15/gal

So prices are a bit on the high side, but not exceptionally high unless you are used to the cheaper than water prices in the US.

Approx 98p/Ltr in the UK if I remember, so not much cheaper there! Namibia much cheaper: nearly a 1/3 of the price.

Well just looking at the list i posted it will take up more room then that I have access to All of the non medicine stuff. such as neddles and IV sullpies which some say we should carry but I'm not sure we would need IV stuff. But I will have some splints and Ace bandages and a good amount of cling and dressings

We don't need to take much. The chance of a serious accident are slim. The roads are deserted, both in tow and out in the country. People need to drive carefully at night otherwise it's easy. We need a couple of needles not a whole pack, etc; same with bandages. A bandage or two. IV supplies ... no way. You wanna bring stuff then that is fine. But we don't want loads IMO. We will need room for other stuff we will actually use. Risk is small.

holland_patrick

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 15:06

Approx 98p/Ltr in the UK if I remember, so not much cheaper there! Namibia much cheaper: nearly a 1/3 of the price.

We don't need to take much. The chance of a serious accident are slim. The roads are deserted, both in tow and out in the country. People need to drive carefully at night otherwise it's easy. We need a couple of needles not a whole pack, etc; same with bandages. A bandage or two. IV supplies ... no way. You wanna bring stuff then that is fine. But we don't want loads IMO. We will need room for other stuff we will actually use. Risk is small.

enough said

condyk

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 15:55

For info., here is a pretty standard equipment list for a double cab (four people) 4x4 vehicle with camping gear:

2x spare wheels, 1x 30 l cool box, 1x tool box, 1x hand pump, 1x 20 l water canister, 2x 20 l petrol canister, 1x first aid kit, 1x towing rope, 3x spare fan belt, 1x small spade, 1x wheel-change kit, 1x wheel pressure gauge, 1x starter cable, 1x Namibia street map, alarm system, central locking, 1x (2) roof tent (second roof tent on request) ( includes mosquito net ), 1x (2) mattress, 1x (2) sheet, 2x (4) pillows, 1x table, 1x 30 liter cool box or 12 volt fridge, 2x (4) chairs, 3x plastic boxes, 1x 3x3m ground sheet, 1x 20 liter water canister, 2x gas bottle, 1x cooker, 1x gas light, 1x fully equipped kitchen box, 1x wash trough, 1x torch, 1x hand broom, 1x hand axe, 1x braai grid.

second roof tent add N$ 600.- per trip and a 12 volt fridge add N$ 35,-per day.

Ladders are for Lions to enter the tents at night while you sleep ;-)

Becca

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 16:57

Ladders are for Lions to enter the tents at night while you sleep ;-)

Well, thank goodness for that! We wouldn't want the lions to strain themselves jumping! :lol: I volunteer to sleep in the truck.... ;)

eenorton

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 17:30

Well, thank goodness for that! We wouldn't want the lions to strain themselves jumping! :lol: I volunteer to sleep in the truck.... ;)

In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight.... :eek:

THAT is a *very* cool set up!!!!

And Dave!!!! I heard from a student in Namibia who told me they start their third term on Sept 2nd. (Which is a Saturday) And an email from the US embassy in Namibia that said the kids are on holiday Aug/Sept for two weeks. Not sure this really helps a lot. I have other emails floating around so if I can get two responses that agree with each other I'll let you know. :)

Becca

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 17:32

In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight.... :eek:

We will have to work up a rendition of this as the soundtrack to the CD/DVD... The POTN Singers! :lol: :lol: :lol:

eenorton

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 17:44

We will have to work up a rendition of this as the soundtrack to the CD/DVD... The POTN Singers! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I *do* tend to break into song on a pretty regular basis. Y'all are gonna have to tell me when it starts to get annoying. :)

dicky109

24th of July 2006 (Mon), 21:07

Hey Guys,

I just ran across this thread and while I can't be going with you, I thought I'd throw a few thoughts in. My daughter was in the US Peace Corps and lived in northern Namibia near Oshakati in Ovamboland for 3 years . While she was there, we visited twice and kind of made our own safaris.

Suggestions for this trek are: carry an extra jerry can of gas(petrol) and lots of water and an extra spare tire. Filling stations are few and far between and if you miscalculate the distance between, you'll be at the mercy of passersby. Don't expect police to stop & help; even if they're in the area, which is doubtful, they don't want to get involved. The extra water is a given for you, but in that heat, the vehicle may want some too. Even though the main roads are tar, you will be off of them at times, and also most of the rental vehicles I saw had tires on them that wouldn't pass inspection here.

Do not drive in the dark. There is literally no light other than your puny headlights which don't carry far enough to keep you safe. Besides large animals crossing the roads at night, there are a lot of drunk drivers out, as especially in Namibia, excessive alcoholism is the national passtime.

You must get your shots and you must take anti-malarial meds. Besides allowing you to gain entry to the country, having the proper inoculations will keep you all safe. Most people can handle one of the anti-malarials without problem and malaria, if contracted, is a lifetime of misery if not fatal. No matter how you cover up, one little mosquito bite and you could be infected.

Always check your shoes before putting them on. Scorpions like to hang out in them, and aren't real happy when you squoosh your foot on them. They will sting and it makes you sick and hurts like hell, plus if you're allergic and without medical facilities, it could be quite serious.

A lot of the areas you'll be driving through are dry and extremely dusty, with a fine powder that penetrates EVERYTHING. I actually found dust inside my closed Lowepro Mini-trekker, a first for me. Bring plenty of ziplock backs and keep your photo stuff closed in those when not in use.

When in inhabited areas, DO NOT leave vehicles and equipment unattended. They will probably not be there when you return and it would screw up a photography trip to have to shoot with a disposable camera. In some areas (happened in Zimbabwe at Vic Falls), you even have to watch out for the monkeys, as they play a con game. One will distract you, knowing we think he's cute, and the others will sneak up behind you and steal your stuff. Only a quick shout and a well-aimed stone saved my daughter's Nikon (now you all know that the Nikonians really are Simians:lol:)

Combining our 2 trips in May 1999 & 2000, we flew into Joberg, and drove to Lesotho (independent kingdom inside S. Africa), which is a mountainous region. Went horseback riding in the mountains, which offerred a lot of photo opportunity. It was also pretty amazing to wake up in Africa with frost on the windows.

From there, we drove the "Garden Route" in S. Africa to Capetown, but I was pretty disappointed in that southern trek. I think it was developed by the local Chamber of Commerce to grab tourists. Try to stay one day in Capetown and go to Robben Island, where Nelson Mandela and most of the Black African leaders were held in political prison during Apartheid. Besides the photography, it was pretty inspiring to see and hear what these people went through. At least at the time that we visited, tours were led by former inmates.

After Capetown, we headed north to Namibia and Fish River Canyon, which I'm surprised no one has mentioned as a destination. After the Grand Canyon, it is the next largest in the world.

Heading north, we went through Walvis Bay (before Brad & Angelina) and Swakopmund with its great sand dunes. There's actually much higher ones farther south, but I don't quite remember where.

Skeleton Coast was ok, but I thought other places were more picturesque. The only part that was unforgettable was the northern area, where the seal colony is. As far as the eye could see, there were wriggling bodies, sometimes on the sand, sometimes on each other. The smell was...well, let's just say you should practice breathing through your mouth before you go there.

Heading east from the coast, we traveled through Damaraland, which my wife referred to as "her day from hell". My daughter & I loved it, as the landscape is so barren and moonlike, we found it beautiful. Etosha is a can't miss & it sounds like you've got that covered.

I don't know what is happening there these days, but a few years ago there was a lot of trouble in Caprivi. Check out the situation there before you go.

Pupa Falls is more like a cataract as there's not much of a falls. The area is pretty, but best left as only a stopover.

We didn't spend much time in Okavanga Delta, but on a later trip on her own, my daughter said it was incredible, so if you have the time, its recommended to go there.

Our trip out ended at Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe. Not sure if its safe to go to that country now, but if possible, its an amazing site. Unlike Niagara Falls here on the US/Canandian border, Vic Falls is very close to the opposite shore, and you feel like you can reach out and touch it. If its rained much recently, make sure you waterproof your equipment, as the mist can be as heavy as a downpouring rain.

We did have the opportunity to take a guided canoe trip upstream from the falls on the Zambezi River and it was a pretty cool experience. As the guide is teaching you how to respect the hippo's (they're a lot faster than you are in the water and on land) its comforting to learn that they don't want to eat you. They're vegetarians! But if you piss them off, they'll dump your canoe over in the water, where their non-vegetarian friends, the crocs will take care of you!

Everybody, have a great time and if you want any specific information, let me know in this post or PM.

condyk

25th of July 2006 (Tue), 13:17

Cheers for that excellent contribution. Sounds like you had a great time on the whole and, of course, there is so much to see it is very difficult to prioritise. I agree about the garden route in South Africa. Marketeering and nothing much along there appealed to me either.

The Caprivi troubles are sorted now.

Hippo's kill more people in Africa that all other animals I believe. They are veggies but also very territorial. You must be very careful around them. Their jaws are deadly and so is their mass!

Dust is a real issue and I agree that the very fine powder sand gets absolutely everywhere, even inside things you thought were well sealed. So, good advice on sealing everything.

condyk

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 12:16

Have slimmed the FAQ significantly and added in a proposed route that is focused on Etosha, Chobe/Okavango, and Kgalagadi National Park.

This is a natural circular tour so efficient in terms of time. We would assess on day 13 whether we wanted to travel South to Kgalagadi for a few days, and then including the Kokerboomwoud, Keetmanshoop, or stay 3-4 days longer in the Okavango Delta region. This will give a structure to key accommodation bookings for Etosha and Chobe, but also allow for some flexibility in Botswana.

I need peoples thoughts on this route.

We need to agree dates next. I think late August into mid September as this avoids the South African school dates.

saravrose

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 12:20

holland_patrick

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 12:30

I was hoping to go in spet at this is when the school starts here and my ex-wife will have little trouble droping off and picking up my little one while i'm away. Aug she will still be out of school and spending days with me.

tommykjensen

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 12:49

Becca

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 17:07

Sounds good to me! I can schedule around whatever dates are chosen.

eenorton

26th of July 2006 (Wed), 17:33

condyk

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 01:51

The proposed route looks great to me too Dave. I don't think this trip would ever have come together if you hadn't taken such a pro-active, "let's do this" approach and I am extremely greatful for that. Thanks! And Sept. dates work better for me too.

Ok cool y'all ... and Beth, I am just hoping to earn enough credits in advance to get out of doing the washing up ;)

darkmongoose

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 02:46

holland_patrick

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 08:10

Ok cool y'all ... and Beth, I am just hoping to earn enough credits in advance to get out of doing the washing up ;)

I have NO PROBLEM with cleaning up...

holland_patrick

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 16:41

condyk you posted this in another thread..

Re: 100-400 L LENS: DUST?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had this lens a short time and before buying it I posted the same question. Several owners said it is an issue in their experience and several others where certain it wasn't. I think myself there is something in it but I also suspect it depends how and where it is used. Owners of other lenses never mention this as an issue. I wouldn't take one to a very dusty location personally. I would rather use something else.

So what are you going to bring?

condyk

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 16:59

Currently I expect to take a Sigma 50-500mm Bigma. I've had good results with one before, is well priced and has the length to get most shots you need in Africa. I will wait until closer the time tho' to see what else is around. The 100-400 IS L is a good lens and popular in Africa so you won't go far wrong with it, but IS is not needed shooting mainly from a vehicle that we will be driving ourselves. Much more difficult to shoot on an organised 'tourist' style game drive. Too many people, can't get a good view so easy, so IS could help then if you need to move around a bit.

holland_patrick

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 18:08

I was thinking of taking the 100-400 hit.. as I could used the IS (very shakey hands) but time wil tell as we get closer..

cjsa

27th of July 2006 (Thu), 19:34

I'm reallly hoping I can make it, keep a space for me?

condyk

28th of July 2006 (Fri), 02:11

Im going to south africa in the first week of august for 5 weeks mostly hanging aroung the east coast might even get to go up as far as zimbabwe. Its very helpful for me that my wife is from south africa so it makes it quite cheap to get around and also for accomodation. Would like to get some great animal photos like the classic leopord in a tree etc. But being very new to Digital or photograophy at all for that matter well see what we see.

Hluhluwe/Umfolozi Game Reserve in KwaZulu Natal is wonderful and you can visit easily in a saloon car. Hilltop camp there is great - very relaxed. St Lucia Wetlands is also a nice place to visit tho' watch out for the Hippo's! There is so much around that area that you will easily fill five weeks. A long lens is good, 400mm is fine, otherwise the animals end up as specks in the middle of the frame. Drakensberg mountains come with great reviews but not really my thing.

condyk

28th of July 2006 (Fri), 02:13

I'm reallly hoping I can make it, keep a space for me?

At the moment it is looking like 6 people max only and in two vehicles, so we may need to vote on who goes. If we do that then it will be secret poll, to be absolutely fair, and everyone will be included who at that point says they are committed to going. How long can you go for Carol? Three or four weeks? Minimum is three. We could take up to eight in 2 x 4x4's but the group needs to decide if they are comfortable with a larger group. It will be harder to manage in all respects, not least accommodation, agreeing preferences, restaurant bookings, etc.

Su-Hannie

28th of July 2006 (Fri), 07:16

OK OK you're coming to my valley...

If you have any questions and want a honest reply regarding South Africa you can PM me, I'll respond honestly..

We South Africans are very friendly people. You will be able to get far with just English. South Africa accept credit cards, but you might run into a problem at some small shops (but there will be a ATM closeby) further north I don't know...

Can I just meet up with the tour group when they're in SA? will go to Nam and Bots on my own time (since I can drive there)

Where in SA were you planning on going?

condyk

28th of July 2006 (Fri), 10:16

OK OK you're coming to my valley...

Sorry Su, we aint ... we are proposing flying in and out of Windhoek instead and doing Namibia and Botswana. We changed our minds due to time. You can check out the route on our wiki ... see page one of the thread.

dicky109

28th of July 2006 (Fri), 17:34

1. It is possible to get things done but it might take a bit more time that you're used to. Relax and enjoy the wait. We're on holiday ;-) In Namibia they have two expressions: "Now" means "whenever I get to it". "Now, Now" means "right away". Most folks there do things "Now" and are quite a bit happier than in our society where EVERYTHING must be done "now, now"!

3. Every good plan needs flexibility to just go with the natural flow of opportunities. For example, you may not see Big Five every day but if you go just looking for them then you really will miss so much else, minute by minute, that is worth looking at! Open your eyes. We never saw any cats on our 2 trips there. Disappointed, sort of, but everything else was just so amazing, we didn't realize it until the trips were over. When I say amazing, you haven't lived until you've heard the thud of an elephant turd hitting the ground after dropping from that height!:lol:

Olli

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 00:56

... you haven't lived until you've heard the thud of an elephant turd hitting the ground after dropping from that height!:lol:Also >seeing< (http://www.laasanen.net/POTN/IMG_7839-01_elephant22.jpg)is believing :lol::lol::lol: (that one taken in the other big'A': Asia).

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 02:58

Also >seeing< (http://www.laasanen.net/POTN/IMG_7839-01_elephant22.jpg)is believing :lol::lol::lol: (that one taken in the other big'A': Asia).

What about those big Dung Beetle bugs that roll up sh*t and push and roll it away? They are very funny to watch :lol: :lol:

In Namibia they have two expressions: "Now" means "whenever I get to it". "Now, Now" means "right away". Most folks there do things "Now" and are quite a bit happier than in our society where EVERYTHING must be done "now, now"!

... and in London it is more like 'yesterday, yesterday, yesterday ...'. There is nothing like sitting outside your tent with a cool beer, looking up at a big African sky and listening to Lions in the distance to make you realise most things really don't matter.

We never saw any cats on our 2 trips there. Disappointed, sort of, but everything else was just so amazing, we didn't realize it until the trips were over.

We saw lots of Lions, and an Africa Wild Cat at Etosha, which was a big thrill, but my dream would be seeing wild Cheetah sprinting across a plain.

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 05:01

We're getting close to decision time ...

1. If you are committed to going then now is the time to say. We want four people and one vehicle, or six to eight and two vehicles.

2. I am thinking approx £60/$110 US per day per person will cover vehicle, fuel, shared accommodation, vehicle insurance, food, etc. Then you need to add on airfairs. I have found personal spending is minimal on these kinds of trips, but we will all be different on that side of things.

3. We need to agree dates. I suggest Tommy and I fly together from London and arrive 25th August (we need ideas about alternative dates tho' - please input). We can both sort vehicle and accommodation, finalise planning, start shopping for supplies, etc. and then asap the US people fly in together from NY. There will be a limited number of direct flights at the best price, so booking the same flight should not be too difficult. We will meet you at the airport so things should be very simple for you guys. You just need to coordinate yourselves and share info.

4. The 21 day guys then fly out 21 days after arriving ;-) I will take them and all their gear to the airport. Obviously, the ideal is to book the same flight again. If some people stay longer than they become responsible for paying vehicle daily hire costs.

5. Here is the list, in alphabetical order, of those who have expressed strong commitment already:

Becca (up to three weeks)
Beth (up to three weeks)
Dave (up to four weeks)
Patrick (time unknown)
Sari (up to four weeks)
Tommy (up to four weeks)

This works quite well from a gender point of view and so will make booking shared accommodation easier. We have enough drivers there and some first aid experience.

Several others are interested, namely: Olli, Az2Africa, CJSA, Woodsie, Futura, CyberDyneSystems.

So ... thoughts on all this stuff please people?

tommykjensen

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 05:12

Sounds good to me.

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 06:46

Yipee!!!! I'm in!!

To clarify... Are you proposing that Aug. 25th be the first day of the 21?

Also... what airport are you going to fly from? I may end up using a travel agent... but it looks the best fares I have found so far are to fly into Gatwick (using American Airlines or Continental) and from there to Windhoek using Air Namibia. Would you suggest different airlines or airports?

Oh boy!!

(edit... meant to tell you I'll have a international drivers license)

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 08:23

Yipee!!!! I'm in!! To clarify... Are you proposing that Aug. 25th be the first day of the 21?

That is the date I propose to fly in and seems Tommy is happy to do the same which is cool. I know you US guys will need to organise yourselves, so we are building in up to 48 hours or so over the period 25-26th for you to fly in when we will already be there. If there are better ideas then cool :D

I may end up using a travel agent... but it looks the best fares I have found so far are to fly into Gatwick (using American Airlines or Continental) and from there to Windhoek using Air Namibia. Would you suggest different airlines or airports? (edit... meant to tell you I'll have a international drivers license)

Same here. Intention at the mo', without having done much research, is Gatwick/Windhoek via Air Namibia. If others want to go the same route then that is good, but I suspect it will be much longer with an overnight to factor in. May not work out that much cheaper. Definately worth a travel agent doing some checking for you guys.

Good news on the licence.

holland_patrick

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 08:59

5. Here is the list, in alphabetical order, of those who have expressed strong commitment already:

Becca (up to three weeks)
Beth (up to three weeks)
Dave (up to four weeks)
Patrick (THE FULL TIME)
Sari (up to four weeks)
Tommy (up to four weeks)

?

It would make it easier for a a full sept date but I'll work with the 25-26 as a starting point

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 09:17

It would make it easier for a a full sept date but I'll work with the 25-26 as a starting point

Ok, so noted you can make the four weeks.

Problem with September is we hit ZA school holidays which will make everywhere very busy, so we need to try and avoid that and start end August and finish before around the 19-20th. We may be able to shift a few days towards the end of August.

Becca

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 09:53

These dates work for me, too, as far as I know now. Unfortunately, I found out yesterday there's been a bit of a shake up at work and my schedule may be changing. We are having to re-do our project plans for the next year and if we have a tight release schedule there's no way they are going to let me take 3 weeks off. I should know more by the middle/end of next week. But, until I hear officially, consider me in!

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 10:41

Becca

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 10:43

AAck!!!!! :cry: Fingers crossed! Mine too! And toes, and eyes....

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 10:58

That is the date I propose to fly in and seems Tommy is happy to do the same which is cool. I know you US guys will need to organise yourselves, so we are building in up to 48 hours or so over the period 25-26th for you to fly in when we will already be there. If there are better ideas then cool :D

Looks like they only fly into Windhoek Wed, Fri and Sun.

http://www.airnamibia.com/

And back to Gatwick on Tues, Thur and Sat.

Also... I wasn't sure how to interpret the following from their site. Does Economy mean one piece of luggage period? Or just to carry on board and the other would be in cargo?

How much hand luggage may I take on board?

In Economy Class one piece of hand luggage not exceeding the dimensions of
(55x40x20 cm) and not exceeding 7KG is permitted.
In Business Class each passenger is entitled to 2 pieces of hand luggage.

Becca

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:02

Looks like they only fly into Windhoek Wed, Fri and Sun.

http://www.airnamibia.com/

And back to Gatwick on Tues, Thur and Sat.

Also... I wasn't sure how to interpret the following from their site. Does Economy mean one piece of luggage period? Or just to carry on board and the other would be in cargo?

How much hand luggage may I take on board?

In Economy Class one piece of hand luggage not exceeding the dimensions of
(55x40x20 cm) and not exceeding 7KG is permitted.
In Business Class each passenger is entitled to 2 pieces of hand luggage.

I think they mean you can only take one piece on board the plane. Usually its one piece of carry-on luggage and a personal item (like a purse or briefcase).

The flight information sounds good. We could connect with the Sunday flight into Windhoek and catch the Saturday flight back out. Of course if for some reason we miss a connection, we're pretty much up a creek!

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:06

I think they mean you can only take one piece on board the plane. Usually its one piece of carry-on luggage and a personal item (like a purse or briefcase).

I was *hoping* that's what it meant. Hate to find out differently in Gatwick!!

The flight information sounds good. We could connect with the Sunday flight into Windhoek and catch the Saturday flight back out. Of course if for some reason we miss a connection, we're pretty much up a creek!

Yeah. That'd be terrible. Stay in Namibia for an extra three days. Dang. :rolleyes:

"But boss! There was nothing I could do!!" :)

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:08

the schedule works for me.. Now, its a matter of waiting to be able to book our tickets. I suggested to Dave that it would be easiest to wait to get our tickets, probably this fall before we book our jeeps and hotels.. Considering the time zones that were flying from and to getting everyone arriving within a certain time, unless we get the same flights is going to be tricky... either way i'm in for whatever we decide...

sari

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:08

Looks like they only fly into Windhoek Wed, Fri and Sun.

http://www.airnamibia.com/

And back to Gatwick on Tues, Thur and Sat.

Also... Does Economy mean one piece of luggage period? Or just to carry on board and the other would be in cargo?

All long haul airlines I have ever been on have allowed cargo up to a weight limit, one or more items, and at least one piece of hand luggage within the size and weight limit advertised. I will take one cargo piece and one hand luggage as easier to carry and manage on the road. I suggest others do likewise or packing and unpacking will be a chore. No need to spend much on a fancy backpack as they are basically in and out of the vehicle and in and out of cargo. We won't be hiking with them, or such like. I'll probably buy some suitable kharki clothing stuff there and then leave it when I go for someone to recycle.

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:16

No need to spend much on a fancy backpack as they are basically in and out of the vehicle and in and out of cargo. We won't be hiking with them, or such like. I'll probably buy some suitable kharki clothing stuff there and then leave it when I go for someone to recycle.

So a backpack (cheap or not) is the best way to pack? I've got one down in the basement from my old camping days... a little bulky, but maybe I can modify it by removing the frame....

Becca

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:16

I was just planning on one duffle bag with my personal gear and my camera backpack. I don't expect that we will need much. I'm planning on a couple of pairs of shorts and t-shirts, a long pair of pants and a long sleeve shirt, bathing suit (some of those camps had pools!), fleece jacket, plus undies, etc. Will we need hiking boots, or are sneakers and sandals enough?

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:18

the schedule works for me.. Now, its a matter of waiting to be able to book our tickets. I suggested to Dave that it would be easiest to wait to get our tickets, probably this fall before we book our jeeps and hotels...

Agreed ... so the thing to do for you US guys seems to be (1) decide to fly direct or via London Gatwick (2) book tickets on the same flight/s early, i.e. as soon as they become available and via a good price agent or web site (3) but on that day we all make sure we align our bookings via IM first and then book. Worst thing is to all arrive over a 3-4 day period. That would suck badly ;)

Then, once flights are booked, I can confirm the route and make accommodation and vehicle bookings. We may not need deposits at that time, or we may need just for one or the other. I think Avis demand a 10% deposit, but I need to research that side more. We only need book Etosha and Chobe. Rest we take a gamble and do it there.

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:18

eenorton

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:20

Agreed ... so the thing to do for you US guys seems to be (1) decide to fly direct or via London Gatwick (2) book tickets on the same flight/s early, i.e. as soon as they become available and via a good price agent or web site (3) but on that day we all make sure we align our bookings via IM first and then book. Worst thing is to all arrive over a 3-4 day period. That would suck badly ;)

So pretty much, once August 25th rolls around, we all get busy!

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 11:39

So pretty much, once August 25th rolls around, we all get busy!

Seems like it :D

I was just planning on one duffle bag with my personal gear and my camera backpack. I don't expect that we will need much. I'm planning on a couple of pairs of shorts and t-shirts, a long pair of pants and a long sleeve shirt, bathing suit (some of those camps had pools!), fleece jacket, plus undies, etc. Will we need hiking boots, or are sneakers and sandals enough?

Seems pretty good. Darker colours better for wildlife spotting rather than white. Sneakers and sandles are good. Socks for evenings as the Mozzies like feet and ankles :confused: I went on a 5.00am game drive in Namibia one time in an open vehicle and it's bl**dy freezing in the morning, tho soon warms up. Layers are good and, as you say, a light warm fleece.

So a backpack (cheap or not) is the best way to pack? I've got one down in the basement from my old camping days... a little bulky, but maybe I can modify it by removing the frame....

The easiest time I ever had travelling 'on the road' was with a big canvas Nike top zipped duffle style bag. I will get similar this time. This looks about right (http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Berghaus-Mule-80---SS06.html) and I like the end pockets for keeping bits and pieces ordered. This (http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Vango-Planet-Super-Tanker---SS06.html) also looks pretty good. I find backpacks pretty inflexible unless they are the unzip from the front type that open up fully. Personal choice. The top-loaders I find a pain tho' I had one for my last 6 month trip :rolleyes:

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:17

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:26

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:31

Are you saying that a direct flight from US goes via Germany?

Also, remember we are flying to Windhoek, Namibia and not South Africa ;)

the flights I were looking at went from NY to Germany and then a nonstop flight into Namibia.. I'm sure I typed in Namibia when I was doing my searches...

sari

holland_patrick

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:34

right now i can olny book until june of next year where i'm looking so we might have to book in sept for next aug???

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:35

wow.. I just found a good deal.. probably somebody has already spotted this but figured I'd post it up anyway...

http://www.travelspark.com/South_African_Airways_Air_Fares/

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:36

right now i can olny book until june of next year where i'm looking so we might have to book in sept for next aug???

yep. that's the problem I was having it's too far in advance to book airfare and I'd like to get that taken care of first..

sari

condyk

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 12:57

yep. that's the problem I was having it's too far in advance to book airfare and I'd like to get that taken care of first..

sari

I found some fares going through to December 2007 £419 return Gatwick/Windhoek but I rather suspect that if I ring them they will say they are not yet available and try to take a deposit from me with no promise on prices :confused: so I will wait until around the 25th August. Of course, using an agent it is always possible to haggle on price or get them to add in insurance (tho agent insurance is often very expensive compared to buying separate, so beware!) A look at prices for the same flights also shows huge differences in margin of each seller for the same seats. Could be worth finding best price online and then booking via an agent and haggling on price.

saravrose

29th of July 2006 (Sat), 13:02

I found some fares going through to December 2007 £419 return Gatwick/Windhoek but I rather suspect that if I ring them they will say they are not yet available and try to take a deposit from me with no promise on prices :confused: so I will wait until around the 25th August. Of course, using an agent it is always possible to haggle on price or get them to add in insurance (tho agent insurance is often very expensive compared to buying separate, so beware!) A look at prices for the same flights also shows huge differences in margin of each seller for the same seats. Could be worth finding best price online and then booking via an agent and haggling on price.

that's what I think is going to happen as well.. It seems that they don't book for more than a year in advance. Just a matter of waiting for the flights to be available to purchase and then everything comes after that... I am going to go into a travel agency and see what they come up with.. and until folks have commited themselves to purchasing their airline tickets we won't really have an exact number for hotels and vehicles.... if that makes any sense?..

sari

tommykjensen

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 03:40

Looks like they only fly into Windhoek Wed, Fri and Sun.

http://www.airnamibia.com/

And back to Gatwick on Tues, Thur and Sat.

Based on this would the schedule then be something like this:

-> Windhoek Sunday 26. august
<- Windhoek Saturday 15. september

for the main 21 days.

That would then mean if Dave and I arrrive in advance that would be on Friday 24. august?

tommykjensen

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 03:47

that's what I think is going to happen as well.. It seems that they don't book for more than a year in advance. Just a matter of waiting for the flights to be available to purchase and then everything comes after that... I am going to go into a travel agency and see what they come up with.. and until folks have commited themselves to purchasing their airline tickets we won't really have an exact number for hotels and vehicles.... if that makes any sense?..

sari

It is very common that airlines do not want to make reservations more than 12 months in advance.

Also as for luggage it is very common that with checked luggage they often allow from 16 to 32 KG per person. But only one carry-on item. Some airlines allow one carry-on item and one personal item. Often a small camera bag can be seen as a personal item but I don't think that will be relevant for any of us on this trip :lol: I will pack my Lowepro Minitrekker. And then get a good dufflebag.

condyk

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:07

That would then mean if Dave and I arrrive in advance that would be on Friday 24. august?

Yup, definately better to arrive proactively on a Thursday or Friday in case there are any delays meaning we may become victim of restricted weekend opening hours. We can do some good sorting before the others arrive and then be more relaxed.

... with checked luggage they often allow from 16 to 32 KG per person. But only one carry-on item. Some airlines allow one carry-on item and one personal item. Often a small camera bag can be seen as a personal item but I don't think that will be relevant for any of us on this trip :lol: I will pack my Lowepro Minitrekker. And then get a good dufflebag.

Yup and so essential to check weight limits in advance ;) Just take what is essential and no 'fluff' if you are looking close to a limit. Throw all packaging. Pack for the bush not every eventuality. We may be invited to meet the President but it is unlikely :p I will take my Crumpler December Quarter as carry on and one of the 80-100ltr duffles I indicated in a post above. Some of these come with small wheels at one end and can be pulled along. I am all for an easy life ;-)

tommykjensen

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:13

condyk

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:20

I also have a dufflebag with wheels on. I bought it last year when I was in Florida for all the extra stuff I bought over there :lol: But I will most likely buy a new one because I think one of the zippers are broke even though it does zip up/down (how do You say that :lol: ) I am not confident that it will stay closed.

Oh man ... I can see you loading up with carved Giraffes and everything :p and if the bag zipper is dodgy then good idea to get new. We would say 'zip' or 'unzip' or 'zip up' but not 'zip down'. I dunno why :lol:

tommykjensen

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 04:25

Nah I am not really into buying a lot of those kind of things. In usa things like sneakers and polo shirts are so much cheaper than in Denmark so it would be foolish not to but things like that.

holland_patrick

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 05:09

holland_patrick

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 05:13

Hey sari I found this in a post for last year about Vicky falls... when are you ready because I'll be in line with ya

Quote
Victoria Falls, Africa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am thoroughly jealous, first that you got that incredible waterfall. and then you actually caught a rainbow. touched by the lucky photo fairies. And then the bunjee jumping shot. I've wanted to do that all my life (sulking a bit, I would never be allowed to). sounds like a great time, beautiful pictures. Sari

condyk

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 05:28

Have you guys been looking at the for sale side of site.. I was looking for 100-400 people seem to be off 100 dollars of the buy it price at b&h is the lens that good does it hold value you that much???

It's a very good lens that holds value if you buy at a good price tho, having owned one, I think a bit over-rated here when compared to the Sigma 50-500mm and 100-300mm f4. The later is better optically, but bigger/heavier, while the 50-500mm has 500mm ... enough said ... and is close optically, but bigger/heavier too. Both are much cheaper over here.

People may ask silly money for their L lenses SH but whether they get that price is another matter. All depends what you buy it for originally. Buy low and you may get what you paid if you are careful.

We won't really have much use for IS as we'll mainly shoot from the vehicle/s, which is why at the moment I am looking at getting another 50-500mm next year. Quality is there and length counts. A Pod Beanbag will be valuable and a light/decent quality monopod for hide and evening waterhole shooting.

tommykjensen

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 05:42

Compressed the thread significantly. My apologies if I deleted something that shouldn't have been deleted.

holland_patrick

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 09:04

Thank's tommy..

I'm considering al things but while IS might not be improant on this trip I'm not one who will change lens often so when i buy one I will stick with it.. I made the mistakeof getting the CHEEP 75-300 when i bought the cammera and while I have gotten some good images with it they are no where near what i see with other lenses. I am shakey so IS would be good and i'm sure there will be times when I will be hand holding. when i was scoping out what lenses i want to get (before this thip came along) i was going to go all 2.8 f stops and IS if i could but i though it would be good for me.. not seeing i want to travel more then i want to get pricey lenses I will look at the 4 f stuff with the IS as i think it might fit me better.

PS i got a good monopod right now so i'm set there

Becca

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 09:09

A Pod Beanbag will be valuable and a light/decent quality monopod for hide and evening waterhole shooting.

I've been looking at the Pod for some time now. Do you use yours a lot? Is a tripod too big for the evening shooting you are talking about? I have a cheap monopod (someplace!), but I prefer my tripod.

condyk

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 09:19

I've been looking at the Pod for some time now. Do you use yours a lot? Is a tripod too big for the evening shooting you are talking about? I have a cheap monopod (someplace!), but I prefer my tripod.

It's just the practicality of travelling with one, particularly flights, but it you can get it in your cargo baggage then bring it along. It's not like we'll be walking too far. I have a CF tripod that I could take but I just can't be bothered I don't think due to size, but I am happy with a monopod. You can use the Pod in a hide too. At the floodlit waterholes you basically sit there and wait and watch, so gear on a tripod is nice if you can be bothered.

I used the Pod a lot in the past. It's an essential buy for this kinda trip I think, but you can also use a folded towel, but not as elegant a solution. The Pod screws into the lens tripod mount and so goes around with the camera. Easier to use by far and we don't really want bare tripod mounts on the vehicle paintwork.

eenorton

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 09:21

So, as soon as we have an exact date we can start looking at flights and finding the best deals.. I like the idea of traveling with someone else.. The flight times are something like 20 hours from Germany to South Africa... Coming from someone who's never flown out of the country before it would be nice if I had some company...

sari

Sari, we can probably work something out. I'm looking at flying into Gatwick, since AirNamibia has direct flights from there to Windhoek. A quick search this morning:

American Airlines Denver/Dallas/Gatwick $800

Continental Denver/Houston/Gatwick $850
Denver/Cleveland/Gatwick $850

Delta Denver/Atlanta/Gatwick $760
Denver/Cincinnati/Gatwick $760

I used Aug 26th thru Sept 16 of this year as the criteria... I suspect the $$$ for next year would be pretty close. So we could arrange to hook up in Dallas, Houston, Cleveland, Atlanta or Cincinnati.... Unless working something with Becca works out better financially.

eenorton

30th of July 2006 (Sun), 09:35

I've been looking at the Pod for some time now. Do you use yours a lot? Is a tripod too big for the evening shooting you are talking about? I have a cheap monopod (someplace!), but I prefer my tripod.

Becca, I've also been debating with myself.. tripod or no tripod... Remember that Quiver Tree shot? I'd bet dollars to donuts that was an HDR shot. And I like the idea of having the option of taking multiple exposures if I want. I'm gonna have to practice packing and see what's realistic for me and what's not. And if you don't feel like buying a Pod, you could always fill an old sock with sand and tie a knot in it. :) :)