Type 99 Error, then focus issues.!! HELP!!

[Spinners]

while shooting a wedding my 10D got really stupid. It stopped saving pictures to the flash card, then started to exhibit focus issues on the pictures. The viewfinder was showing the bride and groom in focus, however when i uploaded the pictures, only the bride is in focus. the groom was not.

Now, the groom was not on the exact focal plane the bride was, he was behind her by less than a foot. (sort of hugging her, and leaning in to her from behind)

I have never had a problem with mulit-tierd, or layerd shots being out of focus. Usually i can have three layers of a wedding party and all of them be in focus.

While trying to figure out what the heck was going on the infamous Type 99 Error appeared. Now i believe the fix to that was to just turn off the camera. Then turn it on. Perform a sensor clean, and then recycle the power. So i did that and the camera started to work again. But from that point on it has had focus issues. The camera refuses to focus on properly. Sometimes it seems to front focus, and in group shots it only really focuses on one person, the rest are out of focus.

So my questions, and please, feel free to comment on anything here, as i am going nuts.

1) What is the root cause of the type 99 Error?
2) Why would my camera's viewfinder show me that everyone was in focus, but the picture not come out that way?
3) What would make my camera stop focusing on other people in a group, not on the exact focal plane, or at least make them look somewhat in focus. It has never, ever not made a group of people layered not come out sharp.

PLEASE HELP!!!!!

[Belmondo]

What lens(es) were you using. Type-99 errors are typically a communication error between the body and the lens.

Tom

[Spinners]

I thought the same thing, however this happened on both my canon 24-85mm and my sigma 28-300mm. If the problem's with the lense, then why was everyone perfect in the viewfinder? i mean my focus points would light up..

[donrask]

This is bizarre...same thing happened to me last night. Shooting at a park, 10D stopped firing..error 99. I had my D30 as a back up, so no panic situation. Question: How long does the sensor clean take? I tried, but quit because i had a reception to cover, and couldn't wait around.

I was using 17-35L lens at the time.

Any help out there?

[Spinners]

the sensor clean funtion only forces the mirror to lift up so that you can clean it. it doesnt clean it for you. you have to clean the sensor yourself. you then turn it off and back on. i did notice right before my type 99 error that i was having some power and battery issues. battery reading was wrong, and it wouldnt save my files.

[rdenney]

spinners wrote:
I thought the same thing, however this happened on both my canon 24-85mm and my sigma 28-300mm. If the problem's with the lense, then why was everyone perfect in the viewfinder? i mean my focus points would light up..

The depth of focus is entirely controlled by optics, not by the camera computer. If you didn't have enough depth of field, then the lens likely did not stop down and you shot the image at full aperture. If the camera tried to stop the lens down, but the lens wouldn't stop down for some reason, then that will give you an Err99. But when you get that error, you don't get an image.

But even the old Sigma lenses will work on a 10D if you don't ask them to stop down. I was able to use my Sigma lenses before having them rechipped by shooting Av with the maximum aperture. Is that what you were doing? Even in program mode, if the camera selected an exposure with maximum aperture, the lens would work. But as soon as I or the camera attempted an exposure that caused the lens to stop down, I'd get an err99. Again, the lens wouldn't stop down, and the camera didn't know how to interpret the error.

My suspicion is you have a lens with either a dirty contact on that stops the lens down, or a lens that has a stuck aperture.

Rick "who hopes you had a backup" Denney

[robertwgross]

rdenney wrote:
My suspicion is you have a lens with either a dirty contact on that stops the lens down, or a lens that has a stuck aperture.


Or, it could be the part of the camera body that communicates directly to the lens through the mount.

---Bob Gross---

[Spinners]

i dont understand what you mean by stop down?? i was shooting at F8. no where near my sigma's or canon lenses max aperature.

would the explanation you give be the cause of why some people are sharp and others not?

[Spinners]

also note. everyone looked sharp in the viewfinder. its the images that come out out of focus.

[Spinners]

anyone else have this problem???

[openspace]

The focus issue sounds like an aperture issue - I have taken a lot of pics that looked tack sharp wide open in the viewfinder only to upload them to a computer and discover I didn't stop down enough (to a small enough aperture, and therefore the depth of field or area in focus from front to back was too shallow - meaning some areas I thought were in focus weren't).

An Error 99 usually is a lens to camera contact issue. Check your lens contacts on both the camera and the lens. Try rubbing them with a pencil eraser or swabbing them with a bit of rubbing alcohol on a cotton swab (no drips!!) to remove any tarnish buildup.

Regarding your CF card, try formatting it in camera. If your camera still won't save pics to the card, try another card. If it still won't save, you have an electronics issue. Contact Canon and be prepared to send the camera in.

If the groom was really that close to the bride, F8 should have been more than enough to bring both into focus if you focused on the bride. However a stuck aperture blade in the lens or failure to communicate between camera and lens (dirty contact?) could have prevented your lens from stopping down to F8, meaning you shot at your lens's widest aperature which would give a much shallower depth of field (focus area).

To test this, set your lens to F8 (or higher) and then press the depth of field preview button on the camera. You should hear the lens aperture blades close (stop down), and the image in the viewfinder should darken. If it doesn't, your lens and/or camera has a problem.

Regarding focus points, I have long since abandoned the "all focus points" setting on my 10D. Too many focus issues. I activate only 1 focus point, center it on the subject, focus, set focus lock and recompose the shot. Far fewer problems.

But even with all that said, I am increasingly convinced the 10D has some electronics issues. On three occasions, my camera has shut down or simply refused to power up at all unless I removed and reinserted the battery, and on several occasions, especially when using a remote switch, my 10D will take and record an image but not display it on the LCD. As I said, it has it's quirks.

[RichardtheSane]

If you consider a couple of things here.
1. The viewfinder is small compared to your monitor, so you are much less likely to see a small DOF problem in the viewfinder.
2. I am sure you are concentrating more on composition than the focus, relying on the camera to get it right (who doesn't when they are confident of the camera) and as a result didn't really notice the focus
3. You indicate you use all focus points. THis method is not the best for getting exact focus, I woudl advise using centre point and recomposing after AF

Also, what aperture is EXIF reporting?

[openspace]

Ditto on the viewfinder vs. monitor. If I was going to shoot important one time events like weddings, I would bring a good laptop with me, take some test shots, quickly upload them to the laptop and check focus on a monitor.

At the very least, I would shoot with a variety of apertures.

[Spinners]

I do bring a laptop, and i do upload a few to be sure focus and everything is correct. I appreciate all your input guys. i will check my camera using your suggestions and see what i come up with.

But i do have one last question. This whole stop down issue. If i set the camera to f8, wouldnt the lense already be stepped down before i even shoot the picture?

Also, i have noticed issues with the camera not powering up, and acting stupid when using the remote trigger as well. hope they fix that in the next release.

removing the batteries seems to solve these issues.

[robertwgross]

Do you use the depth of field preview button?

I have to admit, that button is in the most ergonometrically awkward position for me, so it gets to be a pain to use.

About power up issues... is that from when the camera is first turned on, or is it simply when the camera has been asleep in power-saving mode?

---Bob Gross---

[openspace]

Regardless of what you set the aperture to, unless you press the depth of field (DOF) preview button on the camera, what you see in the viewfinder is the lens wide open - that is the lens set to the largest aperture your lens allows. For a 28-70 f/2.8 then you would be viewing the image as it would look if shot at f/2.8.

The camera will only stop down the lens to the chosen aperture if you (1) take the shot or (2) use the DOF preview button. So, for example, if you are using a 28-70 f/2.8 but you want to see what the depth of field (total area of focus front to back) would look like if you took the shot at f8, set the aperture in camera and then press and hold the DOF preview button. The camera will stop down the lens to the chosen aperture (you will hear the aperture blades in the lens close), and the viewfinder will display the composed shot at f8. When you release the DOF preview button, the aperture blades in the lens will reopen.

Note that when you use DOF preview, and have set an aperture that is smaller than wide open (f5.6 vs f2.8 for example), the image you will see in the viewfinder will be darker (smaller apertures let in less light). Don't worry about it. DOF preview is only good for checking area of focus, not exposure. But even with the darker display, a careful eye can still check focus. And practice certainly makes perfect.

I live for DOF preview. I rarely take a shot without checking it.

Regarding power up/down and remote switch issues - I and several others have also experienced problems with the 10D simply shutting off, or refusing to power up unless the battery is removed and reinserted. It only (very rarely) happens when I am using the RS-80N3 switch. I have no idea why.

[Spinners]

well, the image in the viewfinder is too small for me to determine sharpness using the DOF button. but, when i click it, i do hear the blades close up and i see the lense step down. it seems to humm until i release the button.

i presume this means its working correctly.

[rdenney]

spinners wrote:
i dont understand what you mean by stop down?? i was shooting at F8. no where near my sigma's or canon lenses max aperature.

would the explanation you give be the cause of why some people are sharp and others not?

If the lens was at maximum aperture, you'd have much less depth of field and only one of two people at different distances would be sharp. Smaller apertures increase depth of field, making it possible to bring both into acceptable focus. "Stopping down" is just the selection of a smaller aperture (which is, of course, a larger number).

You may have selected f/8, but if the lens didn't actually close the aperture down to f/8, it might have had less depth of field than you expected, though I can't explain why it would not have overexposed the image (which is, of course, a lot more obvious). And the lens not closing down to the selected aperture properly is the problem with the older Sigma lenses, and in their case the cause of the Err99.

Rick "just tossing out possibilities" Denney

[Spinners]

i would be glad to post a pic if someone would tell me how?

then you could all see whats driving me mad!!!

[rodbunn]

I had a Sigma lense on my 10D and it "appeared" to be working fine chanhing F-stops but it wasn't, it was shooting only wide open f2.8 EVERY shot (even though it said F11 or F9 in the viewfinder)

Rod

[openspace]

Spinners:

The "hum" you mention makes me nervous. Does it do that will all your lenses or just one? I have never heard of a lens humming when you hold down the depth of field button.

Regarding the image being too small to determine focus in the viewfinder when using DOF preview - it definitely take a careful scrutinizing eye. And some luck. You may have to hold then release then hold the DOF preview button several times to compare focus at f8 with that of f2.8 (or whatever your lens's widest aperture is).

To post a picture, you need some web server space to hold the picture. For example, if you have a website, upload the picture (as a jpeg) to your images file. Then to show the picture here in the forum use the following format...

{img}
http://www.yourwebsite.com/images/yourpicture.jpg
{/img}

Only replace the {} brackets with square brackets []. I didn't use square brackets for this example, because it would sent this fourm looking for a picture.

Another option is to use www.pbase.com to set up a free online gallery of your images. Once you get it set up, post the web address (URL) so we can go look at your images.

[Spinners]

i do not hear a persistent humm persay. more like a little motor activating then stopping when i press the button.

press button down -> motor sound... no sound... release button -> motor sound.. no sound...


if that makes sense.

Oh god.. i think my camera is fubar. how can i easily test it to see where the problem lies..

[openspace]

When you press the DOF button, there is a metal leaf diaphragm in the lens that closes (stops down) to the chosen aperture setting. When you release the DOF preview button, this leaf diaphragm opens back up to it's maximum. This is probably what you are hearing.

Go ahead, mount the lens in question, turn your camera on and focus on any object. Look through the viewfinder and note the light level.

Now set your aperture to it's minimum (f28 , f32, etc.) - Use either Av or M mode. Now press and hold the DOF preview button, while looking through the viewfinder. Does the image in the viewfinder get substantially darker? It should. If it doesn't you likely have a stuck leaf blade in the lens itself.

Try another lens and repeat. Now what happens?

Graphic of leaf diaphragm from www.infodotinc.com

http://www.infodotinc.com/photography1/14209_files/image054.jpg

[gsrossano]

This is a new question that kinda fits in this thread. Can the Error 99 also be due to other than lens related problems? My 1D has begun giving frequent but intermitent Err 99 messages. There is a delay, the mirror goes up, Err 99 flashes on the LCD. Press the shutter release again, there is a delay then the mirror returns. The shutter never opens and no image is stored. The LCD then comes back, and a few more images can be captured till it does it all again. Is the answer the shutter is near death? (BTW, there are at least 500,000 frames on this shutter.) Anyone know what a shutter replacement costs?

[rdenney]

gsrossano wrote:
This is a new question that kinda fits in this thread. Can the Error 99 also be due to other than lens related problems? My 1D has begun giving frequent but intermitent Err 99 messages. There is a delay, the mirror goes up, Err 99 flashes on the LCD. Press the shutter release again, there is a delay then the mirror returns. The shutter never opens and no image is stored. The LCD then comes back, and a few more images can be captured till it does it all again. Is the answer the shutter is near death? (BTW, there are at least 500,000 frames on this shutter.) Anyone know what a shutter replacement costs?

My understanding is that the Err99 is the general error message when no specific error message can be determined. In other words, anytime the camera thinks it should be able to do something but it can't, and doesn't have another error message to describe the problem, it will display the Err99. As the error message of last resort, I would expect some widely variable causes. But most causes are non-comforming lenses that don't behave as the camera directs them to.

The last time I had a shutter replacement quoted for a Canon, it was for a T90, and the quote was about $200.

Rick "figuring that price will be higher for an autofocus camera" Denney