Silly Season Has Begun - Ni*on

[CoolToolGuy]

A typical Ni*on marketing ploy with Christmas coming:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0607/06072001nikondslrteaser.asp

They have set up a 20 day countdown for an announcement of their next DSLR - with 10.2 MP. With their track record, you will be lucky if you can buy one before next February.

Have Fun,

[Steve Parr]

A typical Ni*on marketing ploy with Christmas coming:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0607/06072001nikondslrteaser.asp

They have set up a 20 day countdown for an announcement of their next DSLR - with 10.2 MP. With their track record, you will be lucky if you can buy one before next February.

Have Fun,

I remember people here frothing on themselves wondering what Canon would introduce at the last PMA show.

'Tis no different...

[MazerRakhm]

Oh noes! Does this mean Canon will come out with something different to compete? I just bought my 30D! It's going to go down in value! It'll be worthless! It's no goooood! Waaaaaa!

/sarcasm

Sorry, I don't know what came over me. It must be one of those days.

I've never actually handled a newer Nikon, does the little red triangleish thing do something or is it just decoration?

[lakiluno]

knowing nikon, when it does come out it'll probably be quite good, but have loads of noise at high ISO's

and guess what...

it'll have the same sensor as sony's alpha!

[BigBlueDodge]

Hmm, very curious. Sony makes the sensors for Nikon, so the sensor in the Sony Alpha ($999) is the same sensor in Nikon's D200 ($1699). Since I doubt Nikon would drop the price of the D200 to compete with the Alpha, and the D50 ($500) is not on a level to compete with the Alpha, one can only presume that this new SLR is the replacement for the D70s (and hence competitor to the 20D/30D cameras). I'll be watching eagerly, not because I want one, but because it will give us a hint of what to expect after the 30D (as surely Canon took notice of the D200)

[BigBlueDodge]

Where does all of this "loads of noise at high ISO" talk come from? Yes I've seen some terrible pictures at high iso, and I've seen some great pictures at high ISO from the Nikon D200. I'm still not convinced that people aren't just carrying over stereotypes from the D70 and D100 to the D200. To be honest, they seem to have more problem with the banding effect in their images rather than noise at high iso.

[DocFrankenstein]

I'm still not convinced that people aren't just carrying over stereotypes
Nope. This is a completely unbiased canon forum. :lol:

[MazerRakhm]

I don't exactly know where the steroe type of high noise comes from, but I was planning to look into it this fall. The guy I shoot HS football with just got one, so I was going to compare it to my 30D.

[CoolToolGuy]

I remember people here frothing on themselves wondering what Canon would introduce at the last PMA show.

'Tis no different...

Oh, I beg to differ - when Canon makes an announcement in August, the product is on the store shelves by October. When Nikon makes an announcement at this time of year, the cameras are not on the shelves until the following (calendar) year - you can look it up ;) And if you don't acknowledge the significance of the "holiday" season to sales figures, you're living in another world.

Have Fun,

[Lord_Malone]

That's it. I'm selling all my Canon gear. I am, how you say, Gearhead? Yes. I am gearhead.

[CoolToolGuy]

That's it. I'm selling all my Canon gear. I am, how you say, Gearhead? Yes. I am gearhead.

No need to rush - you have about eight months. . . :lol: :lol:

Have Fun,

[MazerRakhm]

No need to rush - you have about eight months. . . :lol: :lol:

But there is a rush! He has to get his stuff sold now before the full announcements hit and values go through the floor!

Or worse yet, speculation based upon secrets leaked could cause camera prices to plumet!

That's how things work in the stock market right? :wink:

[Tom W]

Where does all of this "loads of noise at high ISO" talk come from?

Probably from comparing identical shots with similar Canon models. Nikon's high pixel density requires that users either deal with increased high-ISO noise or deal with noise-reducing algorythms that remove fine detail from the image in order to reduce visible noise.

Perhaps "loads of noise" is a bit overboard, but comparing detailed ISO-1600 shots of a D2x with Canon's latest generation of cameras will show a considerable difference.

[Tom W]

I remember people here frothing on themselves wondering what Canon would introduce at the last PMA show.

I"m not quite sure how you can see people "frothing on themselves". :)

Otherwise, there often is a great deal of anticipation for the next model. This is a web site populated by enthusiasts so you should expect that. It's been a common phenomena in all circles.

'Tis no different...

The difference is that Canon will announce a camera, and it will be on the shelves in a short period of time. Nikon has had a very long time lag between announcement and delivery. That was the point of the original post.

[Steve Parr]

And if you don't acknowledge the significance of the "holiday" season to sales figures, you're living in another world.

What a silly little comment.

Where did I even come close to saying anything about the significance of it?

[CyberDyneSystems]

So it's either a D70 with the D200's sensor on board,. or it's the "D200-S"

[CoolToolGuy]

What a silly little comment.

Where did I even come close to saying anything about the significance of it?

What a silly little reply.

Sorry, I implied (in my mind) that it would be understood that this Ni*on announcement is coming in preparation for the Christmas shopping season. When you poo-pooed the OP as similar to the excitement over a Canon anouncement, I hopped right to it, since Canon announcements are historically more direct as related to the availability of the product. And, OBTW, this is a real release of information (teaser) from the vendor, not "frothing over what is coming next". I didn't realize (yeah, right) that we needed to be so precise here. My apologies.

[CoolToolGuy]

Hey, CDS - why did this get moved into the Rumors forum? While the name and details may not yet be available, it is a real announcement.

Have Fun,

[Lord_Malone]

No need to rush - you have about eight months. . . :lol: :lol:

Have Fun,

Dude, I wasn't serious. Really.

[CoolToolGuy]

Dude, I wasn't serious. Really.

Neither was I, but my estimate is valid, and perhaps humorous. . .

Have Fun,

[ScottE]

Now I really glad I didn't go for the 30D. Canon will not let this 10.2 megapixel challenge go unanswered.

[flying...]

New opponent for Canon...

10.2MP and no it's not an ad for the D200.

http://nikonimaging.com/global/ (http://nikonimaging.com/global/)

This one has a countdown timer on the page.
http://www.nikon-euro.com/DoesNotDisappoint/ (http://www.nikon-euro.com/DoesNotDisappoint/)

Mayb is to counter the 30D...

[grego]

The D200 came out before the 30D. It was the competitor to the 20D, and it did better that since it came out after. Then the 30D came out a few months later with some additions.

[flawlessly]

Is this 2nd launch for D200? ;)

[dpastern]

Interesting. I wonder what will happen if Nikon comes up with a 10mp camera, with weathersealing etc at the same price as the 30D. I still think Canon is deliberately sandbagging cos there's no "competition". Consumers suffer from this sandbagging, due to a lack of features and innovation. Whilst the 30D is a fine camera, can you really say that it's a HUGE improvement over the 20D? Canon has a decent market lead, decent technology to launch a counter strike against Nikon, but won't do so until it really needs to. Until then, most Canon users are going to get tiny incremental updates to the camera range, and nothing truly revolutionery. Well, that's my prediction ;)

Dave

[BryanP]

Interesting. I wonder what will happen if Nikon comes up with a 10mp camera, with weathersealing etc at the same price as the 30D. I still think Canon is deliberately sandbagging cos there's no "competition". Consumers suffer from this sandbagging, due to a lack of features and innovation. Whilst the 30D is a fine camera, can you really say that it's a HUGE improvement over the 20D? Canon has a decent market lead, decent technology to launch a counter strike against Nikon, but won't do so until it really needs to. Until then, most Canon users are going to get tiny incremental updates to the camera range, and nothing truly revolutionery. Well, that's my prediction ;)

Dave

I have to agree about the miniscule upgrades.

Regarding the D200 however, it was a good move for Nikon IMO. If you think that 20D to 30D upgrade was minimal, look at the D70 to D70s upgrade. NOW THAT was horrible. I owned both and all I can say is the only change was the LCD. They claimed to have "tweaked" the D70s AF, but I put both cameras through hell and noticed no difference between them at all.

I wonder what this camera is going to be though. :)

[heffsarmy]

I see Nikon are due to release a new 10.2mp in 19 days time, anynews of canon coming out with a new model.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0607/06072001nikondslrteaser.asp
http://nikonimaging.com/global/

[BryanP]

Wait until Photokina and find out.

[Andy_T]

Well, my guess is that the 40D will be on the market (sometime middle next year maybe?) before that new NOINK camera is actually in the shops :wink:

OK, no kidding ... although Canon is in a position that it does not have to counter any of NOINK's new products immediately, it is certainly a very good thing that this new camera will help to keep Canon alert.

Best regards,
Andy

[chris clements]

Trying to reclaim the ground they're losing to Sony, who've just put the self-same chip in a body half the price of the D200, with anti-shake and anti-dust thrown in for free.
It's all good news for us - Canon will have to pull out all the stops to stay ahead.

[foxbat]

One of the most persistent rumours has been the merging of the 1 series into a successor to the 1DsMK2.

[Jim G]

Hmm, merging the 1 series into something better than a 1DsmkII with the price of a 1DmkII (or similar) would be a good idea... merging it into something with a price tag equal to that of the 1DsmkII wouldn't make any sense, though, heaps more people have the "lesser" 1 series than the big'un...

Of course, if they went for the lower price option it might annoy the current owners of 1DsmkII's who wouldn't be able to resell theirs for more than the new one... can't see that happening.

[Tsmith]

Should I put all my Canon stuff up For Sale while it still has some value > :lol:

[ron chappel]

The new nikon will be a D70s replacement. It won't have weather sealing.

It's great to see nikon competing still .

The one thing i hope canon DOESN'T do now is try to compete on megapixel count!!!
Stick with 8 MP and give us usefull improvements in other areas instead such as dynamic range

[Ron Lacey]

New opponent for Canon...

10.2MP and no it's not an ad for the D200.

http://nikonimaging.com/global/ (http://nikonimaging.com/global/)

This one has a countdown timer on the page.
http://www.nikon-euro.com/DoesNotDisappoint/ (http://www.nikon-euro.com/DoesNotDisappoint/)

Mayb is to counter the 30D...

Not much info on there but my guess is that since the D100 and D2H have recently been upgraded by the D200 and D2X this will be a 10mp version upgrade for the D50/70 series cameras.

Ron

[Andy_T]

The one thing i hope canon DOESN'T do now is try to compete on megapixel count!!!
Stick with 8 MP and give us usefull improvements in other areas instead such as dynamic range

Ron, realistically, improvements in the dynamic range are not really perceived as 'sexy' by the uneducated masses (arguably the primary target for a new Canon DSLR, as this group of society is much bigger than that of educated DSLR owners :lol: ). So the next Canon DSLR WILL have more MP AND a good dynamic range. They already gave us the 30D which was 'not much of an upgrade'...

Maybe it will even have ISO information in the viewfinder :lol:


Best regards,
Andy

[Ron Lacey]

Ron, realistically, improvements in the dynamic range are not really perceived as 'sexy' by the uneducated masses (arguably the primary target for a new Canon DSLR, as this group of society is much bigger than that of educated DSLR owners :lol: ). So the next Canon DSLR WILL have more MP AND a good dynamic range. They already gave us the 30D which was 'not much of an upgrade'...

Andy

I read a couple of articles in which Canon sources were quoted off the record as saying that the next generation of Canon DSLRs to be released in 2007 would be based on high dynamic range sensors though no doubt they'll keep up with the Jones vis-a-vis resolution.

The 30D upgrade was not revolutionary but it did improve an already good camera and kept up with the competetion. While I won't be upgrading my 20D to a 30D I likely will replace it with the next generation of APS sized sensor Canons. Likewise I doubt a 6D will replace my 5D but a 7D... who knows :)?

Ron

[ipacmm]

To me it looks like an update to the D70s, I am just starting to wonder when Canon will come out with some new cameras...

[Rumjungle]

Now I really glad I didn't go for the 30D. Canon will not let this 10.2 megapixel challenge go unanswered.

I've also heard rumors of a Canon ~10mpx camera for September that ISN'T full frame. Maybe that's it...or just more fuel for the fire.:evil::p

[Jon]

Interesting that Nikon thinks they have to announce that they'll be anouncing a new camera in 3 weeks. Maybe that's to cut 3 weeks off the interval between announcement and shipping date, since they usually seem to take forever and 3 weeks to get them on the shelf after they've announced t hem.

[CoolToolGuy]

Interesting that Nikon thinks they have to announce that they'll be anouncing a new camera in 3 weeks. Maybe that's to cut 3 weeks off the interval between announcement and shipping date, since they usually seem to take forever and 3 weeks to get them on the shelf after they've announced t hem.

But in its own way, it is getting the desired result, even here. Ni*on doesn't have anything to put in anyone's hands right now, even for review and evaluation, so they create a "buzz" in the press and keep their name in the discussion - maybe there is someone out there on the fence and now that they know something new is coming from Ni*on maybe they'll wait. . .
.
and wait. . .
.
and wait some more. . . :lol:

Have Fun,

[Andy_T]

Interesting that Nikon thinks they have to announce that they'll be anouncing a new camera in 3 weeks.

Well,

that way they have 3 more weeks to finalize the specs of the camera they are currently designing :lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[DocFrankenstein]

Give me a camera with:
1) reliable MF if I need it
2) fast shutter respones and a smooth shutter button
3) large and bright viewfinder
4) spotmetering
5) full frame
6) large LCD
7) quiet shutter

[Andy_T]

Doc,

does it have to be a digital camera :lol: ?

Best regards,
Andy

[grego]

Not much info on there but my guess is that since the D100 and D2H have recently been upgraded by the D200 and D2X this will be a 10mp version upgrade for the D50/70 series cameras.

Ron

In a sense, the D200 upgrades the D2H, but not really. The D2H is the one that lingers, but didn't do well.

It's built to a higher standard, but then hasn't hit big market because people went D2X or D200 which is much cheaper and better res, albeit, slower than the D2h.

[ron chappel]

I read a couple of articles in which Canon sources were quoted off the record as saying that the next generation of Canon DSLRs to be released in 2007 would be based on high dynamic range sensors though no doubt they'll keep up with the Jones vis-a-vis resolution.

Seriously interesting info Ron ,i hadn't heard that:)

[ron chappel]

I read a couple of articles in which Canon sources were quoted off the record as saying that the next generation of Canon DSLRs to be released in 2007 would be based on high dynamic range sensors though no doubt they'll keep up with the Jones vis-a-vis resolution.

Seriously encouraging info Ron ,i hadn't heard that:)

[Tom W]

But in its own way, it is getting the desired result, even here. Ni*on doesn't have anything to put in anyone's hands right now, even for review and evaluation, so they create a "buzz" in the press and keep their name in the discussion - maybe there is someone out there on the fence and now that they know something new is coming from Ni*on maybe they'll wait. . .
.
and wait. . .
.
and wait some more. . . :lol:

Have Fun,

Nikon does this when Canon or somebody else is about to drop something substantial on the market. It's an attempt to keep their customer base from switching.

[willg]

I wouldn't want to buy a first generation higher dynamic range sensor...I like to keep my technology purchases a bit behind the curve for various reasons. But I think it will be very interesting to see what happens in the next year

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc,

does it have to be a digital camera :lol: ?
:lol:

It would be nice... but I don't think that's what the "public" wants.

I think I'll just get a contax rangefinder system. Symmetrical lens designs make nice bokeh... not to mention that I'll actually be able to carry the system with me.

[FlashZebra]

I remember people here frothing on themselves wondering what Canon would introduce at the last PMA show.

'Tis no different...
I am jot a Canon zelot, but there is a meaningful difference in Canon's and Nikon's record in delivering new products and that was the underlying point to the post for your reply.

It is likely that if Canon does announce a new camera in the late summer, it will be available in reasonable quantities about three weeks to a month later.

Whatever Nikon announces might be available in that same time frame, but most likely it will be a lot later.

These projections are based on both Canon and Nikon's track record over the last three years or so, this does not mean that one individual camera release might transcend these trends.

But, in general Canon just gets cameras they announce in the hands of a reasonable number of consumers a lot quicker than Nikon.

This is not an incidental aspect of reasonable marketing accommodation.

Another way to put it is that Canon routinely delivers new products sooner, after they are announced (than Nikon).

If Christmas is the target, Canon is likely to hit the target with a new offering for many of their potential customers. Nikon is likely to hit the target for a very few of their potential customers, but miss it with most, or miss it entirely for all potential customers.

But, this 20 day Nikon marketing deal has little or nothing to do with Canon, it is delay tactic or "do not buy an Alpha" until you see what we have to offer.

Actually it may even help Canon just a bit, if consumers inclined to buy a Alpha now, delay that purchase, when they finally do make a purchase decision, some of them will purchase a Canon camera. Anytime you delay a sure thing or nearly a sure thing (someone intent on purchasing an Alpha) the insuing time will land some of these potental customers in Nikon's lap, and some elsewhere.

Enjoy! Lon

[farrukh]

I am jot a Canon zelot, but there is a meaningful difference in Canon's and Nikon's record in delivering new products and that was the underlying point to the post for your reply.

It is likely that if Canon does announce a new camera in the late summer, it will be available in reasonable quantities about three weeks to a month later.

Whatever Nikon announces might be available in that same time frame, but most likely it will be a lot later.

These projections are based on both Canon and Nikon's track record over the last three years or so, this does not mean that one individual camera release might transcend these trends.

But, in general Canon just gets cameras they announce in the hands of a reasonable number of consumers a lot quicker than Nikon.

This is not an incidental aspect of reasonable marketing accommodation.

Another way to put it is that Canon routinely delivers new products sooner, after they are announced (than Nikon).

If Christmas is the target, Canon is likely to hit the target with a new offering for many of their potential customers. Nikon is likely to hit the target for a very few of their potential customers, but miss it with most, or miss it entirely for all potential customers.

But, this 20 day Nikon marketing deal has little or nothing to do with Canon, it is delay tactic or "do not buy an Alpha" until you see what we have to offer.

Actually it may even help Canon just a bit, if consumers inclined to buy a Alpha now, delay that purchase, when they finally do make a purchase decision, some of them will purchase a Canon camera. Anytime you delay a sure thing or nearly a sure thing (someone intent on purchasing an Alpha) the insuing time will land some of these potental customers in Nikon's lap, and some elsewhere.

Enjoy! Lon

You're right

[jcw122]

Hey everyone, I came very close to fooling Nikon's site, but I guess their too smart. What I did was tried to change my computer's date to sometime in August. The timer on thier site said "000" but it only went to today's soonest little image, so it didn't work for that part. Oh well, that was cool anyway!

[DocFrankenstein]

Hey everyone, I came very close to fooling Nikon's site, but I guess their too smart. What I did was tried to change my computer's date to sometime in August. The timer on thier site said "000" but it only went to today's soonest little image, so it didn't work for that part. Oh well, that was cool anyway!
That would've been awesome! :lol:

[Hellashot]

I remember people here frothing on themselves wondering what Canon would introduce at the last PMA show.

'Tis no different...

It's quite a bit different. Canon announces a camera then delivers typically a month later. nikon announces a camera, and then are lucky to deliver it 4 months later. I think the D2x was released over 6 months after it was announced.

nikon really messed up trying to force delivery of d200s before xmas last year and they had a horriblee quality control and had all the big banding problems.

Canon can have cameras in stores in october for people to play with, while nikon will have people looking at their website to find out about the camera.

[Sicily1918]

I've never actually handled a newer Nikon, does the little red triangleish thing do something or is it just decoration?It's not a camera... IT'S A CYLON!!! RUN!!! :shock:

[Rumjungle]

It's not a camera... IT'S A CYLON!!! RUN!!! :shock:

LMAO!! That's a good one!:lol:

[CoolToolGuy]

So is anyone staying up until midnight tonight to see "the great unveiling"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have Fun,

[CoolToolGuy]

I didn't stay up just for the Ni*on Web site, but since I was up - at 1:30 AM EDT all it does is count down to 0 days and show the same teaser.

So we have to wait until the Web guys come to work and update the Web site to find out what the next Ni*on is - even though no one will likely be able to take one out of a store until March. . . :confused:

Have Fun,

[gclow]

Haha, website still not updated as of 9:35am eastern.

[CoolToolGuy]

It is updated now (2:30), but just to a new splash animation. It looked like you could click on it, but I could not get a reasonable response time - maybe the Ni*onians are real busy drooling over the details.

DPREVIEW has the D80 on the main page, and a preview. They say the D80 will be available in September, but they don't say what year. . . :o :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well it looks like Ni*on has learned a little bit, and it will be available before Christmas this time. Frankly, they had to, because if not the competition this year would eat their lunch.

Have Fun,

[coreypolis]

Well it looks like Ni*on has learned a little bit, and it will be available before Christmas this time. Frankly, they had to, because if not the competition this year would eat their lunch.

Have Fun,

competition is good for all brand owners, so you should be happy, as Canon will now have to put more effort into future models. Personally I don't think I could take an XT over this new one, though they are at slightly different price points. Between th d200 and this, the 30d has its work cut out for it, and I think it may be the fastest camera to be redone (though was it really a new model to begin with).

[CoolToolGuy]

competition is good for all brand owners, so you should be happy, as Canon will now have to put more effort into future models.

I am pleased for the competition, especially since I already use the leading brand. I have faith that Canon will stay at the head of the pack, and the competition will drive the pack to a higher level.

However, I reserve the right to have some fun at the competition's expense. . . :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have Some,

[CoolToolGuy]

So now the spotlight is on Canon, and what they will bring out for the Holiday selling season.

I am anxiously awaiting. . .

Have Fun,

[jcw122]

So now the spotlight is on Canon, and what they will bring out for the Holiday selling season.

I am anxiously awaiting. . .

Have Fun,

I think the spotlight is still on Nikon, I'd like to know how much this thing costs! Not that I want to buy it, but for comparison purposes.

[coreypolis]

I think the spotlight is still on Nikon, I'd like to know how much this thing costs! Not that I want to buy it, but for comparison purposes.

prices are out there, in between the xt and 30d

[Doctor Diesel]

All this is fun but only relevent if you have no lenses already. If like me you think the big part of all this photography lark is the glass, then jumping systems is prohibitively expensive, esp with investment in L glass

[dpastern]

Looks a reasonably good camera - will outclass the 350D and outperform the 30D in many areas I suspect. If Canon don't deliver at Photokina, they're going to lose a lot of the market.

Dave