Pocket Wizards - How do they work?

[circa]

Okay, I've been looking at pocket wizards for a while, and just from the look of them and pictures, I'm really confused as to how they might work. Here's a few question that come to mind:

-Where do you put the transmitter? On top of your camera where the normal flash would go?

-How do receivers connect to flashes placed off the camera? Do they need cords? If they do, do the cords come in the box?

-How much do they cost?

-Are there any pocket wizards out there that don't need any cords? How do they connect to the camera or flash if they exist?

[jevidon]

I second this question.

[coreypolis]

they connect on the hot shoe of the camera. you can actually set up a receiver up there and fire it remotely too, but thats a different story

the other end connects to the light source. It has a pc plug on it, similar to the one on your camera, except a male end. if you are attacing it to a flash like a 550ex, you would need a small adaptor, where its a hotshoe on the bottom with a place for that plug to attach.

in this way they are more designed to fire strobes, but can still be easily set to fire flashes, just need the adaptor. there really isn't a way around it, the flashes from Canon don't offer a different alternative unless you buy their IR version, but then you are severly limited by distance, angle, line of sight, etc

[FlashZebra]

in this way they are more designed to fire strobes, but can still be easily set to fire flashes
I see this usage for the word "strobes" and "flashes" often on POTN. And, I am a bit perplexed.

"Strobes" typically seems to mean an "electronic strobe flash unit" mostly designed for studio use.

"Flash' (or "Flashes") typically means an "electronic strobe flash unit" mostly designed to sit on a hotshoe (or a bracket on a camera).

But, this is word cleaving, or segregation, in a manner that I find mostly confusing.

Enjoy! Lon

[coreypolis]

yeah, a bit confusing at first I'm sure.

flashes are usually regarded as small, hot shoe mountable lighting sources, such as the speedlites from Canon

strobes are usally refered to as larger, more powerful lighting sources, such as Alien Bees, Norman, Pro Photo etc. The are not handholdable, and require being plugged into the wall rather than AA batteries. They are what you would use in a studio enviornment

[FlashZebra]

Okay, I've been looking at pocket wizards for a while, and just from the look of them and pictures, I'm really confused as to how they might work. Here's a few question that come to mind:

-Where do you put the transmitter? On top of your camera where the normal flash would go?

-How do receivers connect to flashes placed off the camera? Do they need cords? If they do, do the cords come in the box?

-How much do they cost?

-Are there any pocket wizards out there that don't need any cords? How do they connect to the camera or flash if they exist?
Pocket Wizard units are rather expensive, costing several hundred dollars, but they are reliable and have nice features and work over a long distance.

If cost is an issue, you may also want to look into the very inexpensive Chinese radio sync devices available on ebay. They are very inexpensive and offer wireless function.

I have three sets of these things and they work nicely. I do get a misfire on very rare occasion, but for studio use with a digital, I just take another image, and again the misfire is a very rare occurrence.

If you go this way, quickly test your unit in a rigorous manner. I did have some problems with the "as received" quality of my units and had to return one for replacement. But, after I got good ones, they work nicely.

You might still need an adapter to get the receiver to fire your on camera type flash, or your studio flash unit. But the transmitter works on a camera hotshoe.

These units are not as good as Pocket Wizards, but they are less than $50.00 and still provide very good function, at hundreds less that Pocket Wizards.

Enjoy! Lon

[FlashZebra]

yeah, a bit confusing at first I'm sure.

flashes are usually regarded as small, hot shoe mountable lighting sources, such as the speedlites from Canon

strobes are usally refered to as larger, more powerful lighting sources, such as Alien Bees, Norman, Pro Photo etc. The are not handholdable, and require being plugged into the wall rather than AA batteries. They are what you would use in a studio enviornment
Well, not quite my point. I personally can differentiate between a camera mounted flash unit and a flash unit designed for studio use, that is not the intent of my post.

But, actually I think it just poor usage of these words (flash and strobe). Both are "flashes" and both are "strobes", so why would these terms be used to differentiate between the two.

Just seems like very sloppy word usage and I am not quite sure how this usage has been propagated. But it does seem relatively common, but not pervasive, as many provide text that clearly differentiates between these two types of flash units in a precise manner when they post.

Enjoy! Lon

[convergent]

Well, not quite my point. I personally can differentiate between a camera mounted flash unit and a flash unit designed for studio use, that is not the intent of my post.

But, actually I think it just poor usage of these words (flash and strobe). Both are "flashes" and both are "strobes", so why would these terms be used to differentiate between the two.

Just seems like very sloppy word usage and I am not quite sure how this usage has been propagated. But it does seem relatively common, but not pervasive, as many provide text that clearly differentiates between these two types of flash units in a precise manner when they post.

Enjoy! Lon

Sloppy or not, that's the lingo of the industry. I use the words interchangably often. If you want to get technical about it, none of the fit the true definition of the word "strobe", but thats a different matter. They really do mean the same thing, but people will probably understand better what you are talking about if you use them in the manner described in the other post.

Back to the PocketWizards... it is true that there are other less expensive solutions out there, but one very nifty feature that led me to get the PWs over something else like a Quantam slave, was the available chip in the Sekonic L358 meter. By adding the wireless chip, you can then trigger your strobes directly with this meter... a very convenient and inexpensive add-on.

[FlashZebra]

Sloppy or not, that's the lingo of the industry.
Well, I personally don't know whither it is common lingo of the industry (or not), I am just some guy with a camera, a ton of flash gear, and a brain. It certainly is relatively common on this forum (but not pervasive, as many, or most, do not post in this manner that might confuse).

So, most likely I am swimming upstream on this issue, but so what?

The use of "prolly" to mean probably also crops up here from time to time (abbreviations are dandy, but where did the b go and why two ls, it is like an abbrevation by the speech impared), and I rail against that also.

This flash and strobe usage strikes me as using the word "car" to mean a Honda Accord, and "automobile" to mean a Toyota Camry.

Then stating that the "car" is 1% less expensive than the "automobile" and expecting humans to garner the intent.

Enjoy! Lon

[coreypolis]

sorry to say but it goes much deeper beyond the board. It is the common termaology of the industry

[FlashZebra]

was the available chip in the Sekonic L358 meter. By adding the wireless chip, you can then trigger your strobes directly with this meter... a very convenient and inexpensive add-on.
I used the cheap Chinese radio slaves for a solution here also.

I have a transmitter scabbed onto my Sekonic meter that nets a wireless meter, not quite as elegant a circuit inside the meter, but still far less expensive that a total Pocket Wizard solution, and it works with the meter I already had.

Again the disclaimer. - The Pocket Wizards are a nicer, more reliable, and elegant solution, but the far less expensive Chinese radio sync devices get the job done at a very accommodating price. Hundreds less than a comprehensive Pocket Wizard solution.

Enjoy! Lon

[circa]

Now that I've got my info, here's my question:

Say I'm shooting a person jumping down a stair case on a board, and I have three flashes which I want to fire at the same time as the camera takes the photo, what kind of slave kits will I need that will be wireless and won't have to attach to the camera (except the transmitter, of course).

[coreypolis]

you can use pocket wizards and attach a receiver end to each flash, or attach a peanut slave to the other 2 flashes. they will then fire when it sees the 1st flash fire. much cheeper, though less consistent than pocket wizards by themselves

[cosworth]

I've used mine to fire my 1Ds remotely from up to 1000 feet. I've used a slave sensor to get it to fire the shutter when lightning strikes. Pocket wizards have more uses than flash...

I love mine.

[convergent]

Now that I've got my info, here's my question:

Say I'm shooting a person jumping down a stair case on a board, and I have three flashes which I want to fire at the same time as the camera takes the photo, what kind of slave kits will I need that will be wireless and won't have to attach to the camera (except the transmitter, of course).

If you are using strobes... i.e., the AC powered devices that are designed for use in studios and emit a pulse of light at a varying degree of power when triggered by a signal from a camera (sorry, I couldn't resist)... then they generally have a built in optical slave. This means you can connect one of them to your camera via a sync cable or Pocket Wizard, and then any number of other strobes will trigger optically when they see the light pulse from the connected strobe. The only downside of this is that if someone else uses a camera with flash, then it will most likely trigger your slave strobes. If you are the only one taking pictures, then this would work fine.

Or, you could connect a PW to each one like was mentioned above.

If you are using flashes... i.e. the battery powered devices that are designed to be mounted on a camera hot shoe and emit a pulse of light when triggered by the camera... then they typically would need a peanut slave to work as an optical slave device. The peanut slave is a small optical sensor connected to a hotshoe connector.... one of the least expensive things you'll buy from a photo shop. There are some exceptions, like the Nikon SB-800, which have this built-in (get with it Canon!). Flashes like the 580EX also have their own wireless capability based on IR, but it generally needs line of site to work, and so if the flashes can't have their sensors aimed at each other, then they may not work reliably. They also emit a pulse of light to communicate, and this causes a slight delay, and could trigger other optical slaves resulting in the slaves not being ready when the actual pulse is needed. For these reasons, it would be advisable to rig PWs to your flashes if you were going to use them in this way. All you really need is a) a cable, b) a mounting mechanism, and c) possibly an external battery. Rigging these can rival the price of studio strobes. I have a setup with a 580EX, Quantam battery, mini ballhead, super clamp, and Pocket Wizard, and the setups run about $1000 each... so it makes since to look at other more powerful options if you really need full portable/wireless capability.

[gkuenning]

I used the cheap Chinese radio Wizard solution.

What's a good search term to find them on Ebay (or any other appropriate site)?

[FlashZebra]

What's a good search term to find them on Ebay (or any other appropriate site)?
1st.
Please, if you qoute, please make the quote accurate. Without editing on your part you could not get "I used the cheap Chinese radio Wizard solution." from my post.

2nd.
Try this link, this should give you options.

http://photography.search.ebay.com/radio-slave_Cameras-Photo_W0QQbsZSearchQQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQ coentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfposZ41076QQfromZ R10QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQmaxr ecordsreturnedZ300QQsacatZ625QQsadisZ200QQsargnZQ2 d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZunknown

I got the units I have (three sets) from this dealer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Remote-Radio-Slave-4-channel-Flash-Trigger_W0QQitemZ170009898013QQihZ007QQcategoryZ30 087QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I also purchaed about 40 sets for my camera club from this same dealer. Be sure to check the function of your unit very carefully when you get it. In the many sets I purchased, about 15% were bad as received. The dealer replaced them, and they continue to function, but it was an annoyance.

Enjoy! Lon

[gkuenning]

1st.
Please, if you qoute, please make the quote accurate.

Sorry about that, Lon. Sloppy editing on my part.

And thanks for the pointers. Can't beat those prices!

[circa]

Holy wow, thank you for whoever dropped that cheap slave link it here! I think I may purchase that, but before I go ahead and do so, I have to know, would that be compatible (sp?) with my Canon EOS 30D and my Canon 430EX flash? I just don't want to purchase something like that and it be of no use to me. And another question, if I do buy that, will I need the hot shoe adapter that's in that auction or not?

[DavidW]

Be aware that all radio slaves, be they Pocket Wizards or cheap ones, will leave a Speedlite operating in M mode only. If you want wireless E-TTL, you have to use a wireless E-TTL setup - either a master capable flash (such as a 550EX or 580EX) or an ST-E2 on camera, and slave Speedlites.



David

[circa]

What is M mode? Is there a problem with the flashes always being in M mode? And another thing, when shooting with a slave kit like the one on ebay, do I have to configure my flash to anything specific? Or just plug in and shoot?

[merrrrjig]

Holy wow, thank you for whoever dropped that cheap slave link it here! I think I may purchase that, but before I go ahead and do so, I have to know, would that be compatible (sp?) with my Canon EOS 30D and my Canon 430EX flash? I just don't want to purchase something like that and it be of no use to me. And another question, if I do buy that, will I need the hot shoe adapter that's in that auction or not?
you will need a hot shoe adapter, I have pocket wizards and use the cord from www.paramountcords.com

[circa]

okay, but what is M mode? and Is there anything bad about it?

[cosworth]

M = manual
No e-TTL.

[DavidW]

M mode on a Speedlite means manual, as cosworth said. You have to dial in the appropriate power, which means lots of trial and error, or a flash meter. With a radio remote, you lose the automation, because there's no way for the communication E-TTL needs between the flash and the camera.

The only way to keep the automation of E-TTL is to use a wireless E-TTL setup, as I described in my previous post. The drawback with wireless E-TTL is that it uses light to communicate, so the distances are limited, and you must have line of sight between the master and each slave flash.



David

[circa]

And in manual mode, there's no actual number to set on the Speedlights, it goes up by mm's right? i.e. 35mm, 50mm, 85 mm, etc. right?

[merrrrjig]

u can set the head to 14,24,28 and so on and then power settings 1/128, 1/64, 1/32, 1/16 and so on. and the 580 works great with the PWs

[FlashZebra]

Here is another interesting radio slave device on ebay.

This thing "should" give you manual flash, radio control, and a hotshoe adapter for your hotshoe type flash.

I use the Chinese radio sync devices, but never this particular one, so I cannot comment on the quality or functionallity of this particular unit, or this particular ebay merchant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Radio-Flash-Trigger-Slave-Multi-Channels_W0QQitemZ130009330134QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3 0086QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Remember this thing is designed to fire your flash, but you will need to set the flash power manually, no TTL, no ETTL, or ETTL-2 control.

If you give it a try, please let us know how it works.

Enjoy! Lon