First pics with 1D MKII

[KIPAX]

Some pictures from Nortwich Victoria v Accrington Stanley

Started shooting manual.. thn kept jumpig to AV to be on safe side... Then found I was just mimmicking AV in manual anyways so ended up mostly AV all night...Lighting started to fade and floodlights where on second half.. some at iso 800 and end ones at iso 1250

Thats the first with the 1dmkII + Sigma 120-300 f2.8 Its a whopping step up from 10d but I am more than pleased with the results so far.. more practice tonight when Blackpool come a visiting:)

Pics are here
www.kipax.com (http://www.kipax.com)
or link straight to the section here
http://kipax.fotopic.net/c1032719.html

Comments please.. you will see some are darker than others.. that was in Manual and I struggled to keep the exposure.

[joetothphoto]

KIPAX,

Try and use manual as you get some excellent results with that camera if you work it and don't let it do all the work. Shooting in manual will provide you with much better results, just be aware of what is going on in your viewfinder... what that little section of bars doing off to your right and just check your exposure (chimp) every now and then. AV is tempting, but the camera can assume too much and you end up with exposure that is all over the place from shot to shot. Find the constant(s) in the areas you are shooting and use that back button dial to change exposure.

Joe

[KIPAX]

believe me I really want to do everyhting manual.. But I ended up just replicating the AV mode.. I am obviously missing something... I was constanlty having to change SS to get the exposure right... and then getting the same numbers as AV ... so eeerm what am I missing?. I didnt mind it being a bit out to get the speed but It fluctuated so much it was hard to keep up. again I dont mind the work...

If all I am doing is matching AV numbers then whats the advantage.... Sorry for the no brainer :)

[joetothphoto]

Not at all - If you use a mode other than M... AV TV you let the camera do the work for you. Lets say it is a sunny and shady type of day. Sun here shade there. You let the camera make the decision for you you run the rish of the metering point move into a new exposure range and blowing a shot. Now if you shoot manual and meter for region 1 which is sunny and gives you 2.8 1/1600 and player one runs from region 1 into region 2 which is exposing at 2.8 1/500, you can see this change in your viewfinder and have the ability to dial down your exposure accordingly. But in another mode, the camera might seem like it is mimiking M mode, but could be choosing a really dark area in region 2 that is 1/250. I know some of those exposures might seem drastic, but it what happens. Just be cognizant of lighting on the pitch, is the goal mouth 1/800 at night where there 18yd box is 1/1250 - having control helps. Practice practice practice, it will take a few games but it is a mindset.

Joe

[Rich_claypole]

Let me get this right....

When in manual you were looking at the exposure level on the right of the viewfinder and adjusting it so you were exposing correctly, this was changing all the time?

The exposure will change all the time on the right hand level as the camer will continually be re-metering the scene as it changes, so yes you are replicating the AV settings.

The Av setting may not always be accurate, metering can be thrown off by lots of either dark or light in the scene, you need to be exposing for the players faces, not the shirts or the stands. So when in manual you may well be shooting when the exposure level on the right says you are over exposing by 1 stop, infact you are exposing correctly, it is the inbuild meter that is being fooled and maybe providing a reading for the whole scene (depending on what metering mode you are in).

Hope I have understood what you are doing and have provided an understandable explanation!

Here is an example:

Half of one stand has supporters in white shirts, the other half has supporters in black shirts. Action in front of the white shirted supporters when using Av mode and in built metering may under expose the action as the white in the frame will bias the meter reading. Equally when play is infront of the fans in black shirts the action may be over exposed due to the bias of dark colours in the frame.

By taking a reading off the grass for instance you are getting a good reading to shoot with that will not be biased by other factors in the scene when shooting the action. Keep checking the manual settings by taking a reading from the grass on a regular basis and adjust the manual settings accordingly.

Don't be adjusting the manual settings while shooting the action as the meter readins you are getting could be biased and negates the whole point in taking a reading from say the grass and shooting manually.

As you get more comfortable you can take readings from different areas of the pitch and adjust the manual exposure in the fly as play enters the different areas of the pitch. This is important on sunny days where parts of the pitch are in bright sunshine and other parts in the shade, and also evening games where floodlights may not give even coverage of the pitch.

P.S. will look at the pics later, your site is blocked from my works WEB access... :(

[joetothphoto]

ABout right. When in manual you still need to make adjustments, its just that extra level of being able to control the exposure. Because if you are using center weighted metering and your center dot is aimed at dark shorts in AV what happens?

[joetothphoto]

For example - this saturday I am shooting at Cambridge United and if it is really sunny I am going to have to meter and chimp looking for several different things. I could expose off the face and get a decent result but because of the strong sunshine I am going to get some really harsh shadows, especially in the eyes. So the exposure may be dead on, but the pictures are useless because the eyes looks like big black holes. Using the exposure indicator inside and the histogram you should shift right so you pick up the details in the eyes. Now, the stands might blowout, but no one is paying for pictures of the stands. Look at the getty website and look at games with really harsh sunlight, the backgroung can be blown out but the players look great.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=3456

Picture 5 is a good example, looks good, pops, but it drives me nuts because of the shadow on his eyes. Had a alter the exposure a little bit I would have picked up more detail.

[gmen]

...and don't forget how shooting into the sun can help as well. One manual exposure fits all under those circumstances... and you'll have no problems with harsh shadows, so you'll be able to see the faces of the players clearly... and the bonus of some luvly, jubbly rim-lighting too ;)

Random example from last Saturday:

http://www.tgsphoto.co.uk/forum_images/0.jpg

Looks like you had fun on your first outing with the MkII Kipax!

---- Gavin

[joetothphoto]

Thanks gavin! I forgot about that.

[gmen]

Thanks gavin! I forgot about that.:lol: It doesn't always work... but, as long as the sun isn't too low in the sky, it can go some way to eliminating a lot of the metering problems that front-lighting can present... I also quite like the images it produces over the bog-standard front-lit approach.

There was some earlier discussion of different metering/shooting techniques here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142078

...and here:

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=129659

---- Gavin

[KIPAX]

Let me get this right....

When in manual you were looking at the exposure level on the right of the viewfinder and adjusting it so you were exposing correctly, this was changing all the time?

yes thats exactly what I was doing


The exposure will change all the time on the right hand level as the camer will continually be re-metering the scene as it changes, so yes you are replicating the AV settings.


Yes and it fluctuated so much it was hard to keep up.. not only was the sun in and out.. big stand shadow as well...


The Av setting may not always be accurate, metering can be thrown off by lots of either dark or light in the scene, you need to be exposing for the players faces, not the shirts or the stands. So when in manual you may well be shooting when the exposure level on the right says you are over exposing by 1 stop, infact you are exposing correctly, it is the inbuild meter that is being fooled and maybe providing a reading for the whole scene (depending on what metering mode you are in).

Hope I have understood what you are doing and have provided an understandable explanation!


Yes thats the best explanation yet (with great respect to others.. its my level of understanding that is at fault) I was stupidly trying to get exposure bob on and it was a pointless task.


Plus its me being scared of not getting anything at all... I did say I would go mostly manual last night and chickened out..... Sod it.. all manual tonight and live or die by it :)

[joetothphoto]

KIPAX, websites like this are so people can learn and help eachother out. That little meter in the viewfinder will jump around, just use the thumb dial to counter this and get a good exposure. Don't pray and spray either, know where the action is going to be and anticipate the shot. Its such a personal choice when you get out there and shoot. I tend to watch the action until it fills up my frame, expose then shoot. When I forst started shooting footy, everything moved so fast and I was all over the place. But after awhile things just slowed down and I knew where to look and what to expose for instead of the praying method. My mentor at Getty Images told me to start with 6 acceptable images--come away with 6 images and work your way up from there.

Exposure was a big part of my problem too when I started last winter. I was sacrificing ISO with shutter speed and coming out with some total rubbish.

So i'll get off my soap box now hoping I have helped out. Son't be frightened of M, when your shooting just be calm and make the camera work for you. Don't swing it all over the place that is a sure fire way of missing your exposure and shots.

Joe

[joetothphoto]

All this talk about exposures has made me dread tonights game at Cambridge City. I think their lights are some people holding torches at the corners. But at least it stays light fairly late so I should get some good light. Tough things is knowing when to pack it in and go home... although some of the players owe me drinks, I might have to hang about and collect!

[gmen]

All this talk about exposures has made me dread tonights game at Cambridge City. I think their lights are some people holding torches at the corners. But at least it stays light fairly late so I should get some good light. Tough things is knowing when to pack it in and go home... although some of the players owe me drinks, I might have to hang about and collect!There's a good stop or more's difference between one end of the pitch and the other. The goalmouth at the far end of the ground from the main entrance is the brighter of the two.

I shot under the lights at Cambridge towards the end of the last season:

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=145313&highlight=mud+football

As far as I recall, it's 1/400s f/2.8 at ISO3200 at one end... 1/400s f/2.8 at ISO1600 at the other. The middle of the pitch is nearer 1/500s f/2.8 at ISO1600 when you're shooting from the far end.

---- Gavin

[cecilc]

I'll go ahead and insert my 2 cents into this, too ....

When you're shooting in any automatic mode - AV, TV, P, etc. - the camera is going to attempt to expose toward a neutral density. So if you're focusing on a white jersey or uniform, the camera is going to meter and expose that to come out grey (or as close as it can get). If you're focused on a dark jersey, the camera is still going to meter and expose that to come out as grey (or as close as it can get). So, you can wind up with really, really "dark" darks and really blown out "whites" depending on how the camera meters what you're focused on when you take the shot.

(Someone please correct me if what I've just said is incorrect .... )

What I do when I shoot soccer (hey, ... sorry, but that's what we call it here in the States), or lacrosse, or baseball, or any field sport is to meter off of the grass and enter those values and shoot manual. And those values may have to be adjusted a third of a stop either way after shooting a couple of frames and checking the histogram. I'm sure that you could accomplish the same thing by metering off of a grey card, but I think the point is to find a "neutral" metering so that your camera isn't "fooled" by the light/dark jersey readings.

[KIPAX]

Thanks again people :)

I hadn't metered off anything last night and presumed I could get away wiht using AV mode fast speed and adjusting iso to keep the speed.. but thats going to help certain areas not others and not exposure.

I havent metered off anything before and had a few missconceptions of what was needed and how.. Richard has cleared those up for me and I will be meterring tonight off the grass.. now I am more confident on whats involved... Like owt else.. easy when you know how eh.

new camera.. new techniques:)

[Rich_claypole]

Like owt else.. easy when you know how eh.


Lets wait for the results :D

[joetothphoto]

KIPAX,

Again, its all up to how you decide to meter. Last nights game was overcast and I decided to use the histogram. I made some initial exposures and adjusted the histogram so it sat slightly off to the right. Post processing is great but you dont want to spend hours adjusting for stuff you could have corrected shooting.

I also adjusted ISO to keep shutter speed up, but kept chimping to make sure faces looked good and there were no harsh shadows.

I try if I can help it to keep the shutter speed above 1/800 is at all possible.

Then after all of that I ran away screaming like a little girl because of the lightning.

Joe

[KIPAX]

Whats Chimping ?

1/800 great during day.. Night matches... a whole different story :)

This section of this website is for showing pictures I believe and then the conversation that follows... I ahve burning questions but no pics to start them off... there sports related and I want sports togs to see them... where should I start a thread ?

BTW extensive reading of the tutorials top of this page.. been reading them for months litrally :)

[joetothphoto]

Why not here, you started off with photos and asked questions pertaining to learning how to make them better.

Chimping is the slang term for checking your LCD for exposure and whatnot.

[isdoo]

chimping

A photographer is caught in the act of chimping.Chimping is a term used in digital photography (especially when using a digital single-lens reflex camera or DSLR) to describe the habit of checking every photo on the on-camera display (LCD) immediately after capture.

Usage varies depending on context and the person using it, but common uses include:

when a photographer’s sounds and actions of reviewing frames on-scene appear similar to the actions of an excited monkey. (Oooh! Oooh! Aaah!)

when a photographer is completely absorbed in the act of admiring a photo or proudly showing it off to others.

by experienced photographers to describe the actions of "wannabe" photographers.

Having several digital photographers together will result in group chimping either during or after the event they are shooting. This is similar to actual chimpanzee grooming, which is a social activity.

:D

[gmen]

You gotta love a bit of group chimping :lol:

---- Gavin

[joetothphoto]

I never chimp, I use my jedi skills to check exposure.

Joe

[KIPAX]

OMG ... I couldnt really chimp before with a 10d.. by the time it has written to card I could have brewed up... I can chimp to my hearts content now :)

[gsgary]

OMG ... I couldnt really chimp before with a 10d.. by the time it has written to card I could have brewed up... I can chimp to my hearts content now :)

Yes but you were shooting raw, jpg is not so bad