Frustration... Grr!

[JohnMW]

Hello, folks.

I've only been "serious" about photography for a relatively short period of time, but I think I'm having issues. ;p

Went out this morning and shot 512mb worth of compact flash, using RAW, which worked out to just about 80 images. While taking these photos, I knew some weren't all that good, while others I had good hopes for.

At any rate, once I got them all transferred to my PC, out of the 80 some-odd shots, I was only happy with about 4... yes, 4... of them. ;p The keeper percentage that I typically have is -very- low.

I understand that since I've not been doing this for any great amount of time, that many of my shots will indeed suck, but I was just curious as to how many shots you folks generally feel are keepers? 1 out of 5, 1 out of 10, perhaps? Each and every shot? ;p

Thank you for your time,
John.

[stardis]

Not very many of my digital images are keepers, but I take a lot of them. Most of the time I don't have the subject matter around me that I would like to have or the lighting is too dull or too bright or washed out, etc. I don't think that 4 out of 80 is bad; it just depends on your location and luck.

Recently, I went out to just take some pictures of local sculpture and a lot of the images were pretty good(for me). The sky was very blue that day and the kind of shots that I wanted to get were easy to find. I have found that I enjoy photography most when I have a preconceived idea about what I want to shoot and then it seems the percentage of keepers goes up; but I have to work at it.

Only a few of my macro shots are worth keeping. Butterfly pics are hard to get but when the focus is right on they are terrific. Often the image needs to be cropped quite closely to make a so-so picture into a good one. Really, the image editor is a wonderful tool to finish up the shot that you started with your camera. I get discouraged all the time about my photos, but after quite a few years I am still plugging away at it.

You can see the sculpture shots at my gallery:
[url=http://pbase.com/zzcat]zzcat

[CyberDyneSystems]

This varies for me dramatically from session to session. Sometimes I am in the right place and can get a whole serries of keepers.

Also, are we taliking about what percentage is appealing,. or what percentage is technically succesfull. I cn take a whole lot of well exposed, perfectly focused iamges of pure crap! :D

But I have an itchy trigger finger,. so if nothing much presents itself,. that will NOT stop me from shooting a lot. Invariably in such conditions I will get hoe and think to myself,. "Why did I keep taking this lousy picture,. over and over"

So somtimes it is one in 50 that is a real "keeper"

Other times it is 100%

As for % of images that is technically succesfull,. that gets better and better all the time.

[iwatkins]

I'm the same as CDS, in that I'll just keep shooting, mainly because I can as it doesn't cost anything.

Technically good images are on the increase since I rejoined photography just over two months ago. But keepers are very variable.

I've had days out where I've kept nothing, I've also had days where I've kept everything. Also depends on my mood. I might return from shooting and decide I don't like any of the shots. But I'll keep the processed ones for a few days and take a look again to see if any are now any good. Number of keepers is still variable between 0 and 100%.

Cheers

Ian

[stoneylonesome]

seems like alot of this was discussed on this thread awhile back

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18064#99023


one of my earlier comments on that thread

Here's an interesting site, a photographers explanation of what he does/who he is:

http://stevelenzphotography.com/faq.shtml

scroll down and see what he say's on the number of shots he takes " senior high school picts. 30 to 50, wedding picts. 100 to 200 " Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that a Pro has to take that many pictures to make himself look good far from it, they take alot to insure that they don't miss the real good one. Nor am I impling that good photography is LUCK, a lot of skill, practice, and learning goes into it. And that is why I'm on this forum to learn, to have people critique my work, and to share with others. A lot of the pictures I take may mean something to me, but if someone else doesn't get what I was trying to show. Does it make it a bad photo? or should I have done something a little different to get my message across? This forum I think is one of the best around, and I feel that all of the people on here are my friends, friends I've never met, but friends none the less.

[PhotoAZ]

One of the best things you can do is to both learn your craft and have the guts to edit. The ability to look at your work with a critical eye and toss out the duds is one of the best tools you can have. Many new photographers start out feeling everything they shoot is gold and should be shared. They can not step back and see the image as a stand alone statement. They want to share the story of each image, the weather, the smells, who they were with and so on.

As a professional photographer you have a different goal. You want your images to speak for you. You want to touch the heart and mind of the viewer. Editing out the weaker images is not only necessary for the viewer but for you to refine your eye. To learn what is working and what isn't. This is just one of the growing pains of your craft.

In the old days the phrase was "Film is cheap", well now "Digital is even cheaper". Go ahead and shoot and even reshoot the same action from different angles and zooms. Bring these images up and pull out the best. Ask yourself what is making these images better than the others. As you do this you will know next time what is going to work and what won't. You will still shoot more than what you need but the keepers will get even better each time.

[w10d]

Digital imaging gives you the perfect opportunity to learn from your mistakes, by shooting far more than you could afford to on film.

Don't feel bad if you're only keeping a small percentage of images, especially if you've learnt something from the ones you deleted!

In some situations a Pro might be shooting between 250 and over 1000 images just to provide 5 shots in a magazine. On the other hand a pro landscape photographer shooting large format may need to get a 'keeper' out of every half dozen shots.

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Another thing to consider is the correct post-processing for your images. Something that doesn't look great straight from the camera can be transformed by some judicious work in your chosen image editor. You have to learn about the digital darkroom as well as how to take good photographs.

Regards,

[jcsorensen]

Look at how many photos some National Geographic photographers take on an assignment--sometimes in the 100's and sometimes in the 1000's. Then, look how many make it to the magazine--5 or 10--not very high numbers. Even pros throw out a lot of shots. When ever I have a bad day taking pictures I just think of that one fact and I don't feel so bad.

[John_T]

I've learned not to be too hasty about deleting "bad" pix. Sometimes, maybe a year or more later, I'm going back through old pix looking for something or just casually reviewing and trip over something in a shot I didn't see before, jumped on it and found lost treasure. Sometimes when I've been trying so hard to do one thing, I've gotten so narrow minded that I've missed something much better.

I also find that I get better pix when I'm not trying to do anything and just enjoying, just playing, not getting too serious about it. I've found more diamonds and gold by accident than by intent.

[jim monroe]

Dear JohnMW,
I have no great new comment to make but let me say I don't think you should feel frustrated. You say you are "serious" about photography but you don't want to be so serious as to become frustrated. Also as you say you're relatively new so there is bound to be a lot of learning taking place.
As to what is a reasonable % of photos which are keepers I'm quite certain it depends on what one means by "keepers" At the risk of offending some, I look at the Share Photos section of this forum almost daily and I'm amazed by what people declare as awesome, amazing, beautiful photos which from my view are clearly not bad but not what I mean by any of the above adjectives. I can only say that their standards aren't mine, thats okay, but I fear that without being a little more critical they will not develop as photographers.
So if your a tough critic of your only photos thats, from my perspective is good and maybe 1 in 100 will be real keepers. CDS and RFMsports just recently stated they each shot around 16,000 photos over the last 6 months which even if 1 in 100 are keepers that is 160 apiece.

[Longwatcher]

Adding my 2-bits.

On a recent photo session with a model I took over 600 images; of those, 200 were for one specific shot I was trying for. Two of those 200 met my criteria in terms of the look I was going for from the model and only 1 shot actually worked when doing up the final advert. Even then it took some photoshoping to get it to match.

The other 400 images resulted in about 18 good shots that I felt were worth printing. 12 of them needed to be seriously cropped to get the right feel to them. This was an outstanding session by my current standards.

So what is that 1 in 20, and that is a good session.

I talked to a magazine photographer about his rate of pictures. For an event layout, he took 70 rolls of 36 exposure film. He expected no more then 12 of the shots to make it in the magazine and it was likely only 3 or 4 would actually make it. 12 shots out of 2500, that is like 200:1 and he was a full-time pro shooting film.

So don't feel frustrated at getting only 1 shot in 20 to be good. Take comfort in the fact that you will get better, but your criteria for what is good will be raised so you will probably never get better then 20:1 ever and can expect that eventually you will get to 100:1.

Just my experience and opinion,

[JohnMW]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to my initial question. A lot of good information had been posted, and I don't think that I feel quite so badly about my "Keeper" rate. Hopefully, however, as I get better at taking photos, this rate will indeed increase. Hopefully. ;p

Once again, thank you to those who had replied. Your time and comments were greatly appreciated.

- John.

[openspace]

One of my very first trips as a "photographer" was my honeymoon through Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. I had a new Elan IIE fresh out of the box, a couple of good lenses, all the right filters, and a good tripod. I'd read all the right books, knew all the theory of composition, was shooting with professional grade film, and most important of all, I looked cool. I was a badass. Ansel Adams beware.

So I went to Yellowstone and Grand Teton, into Montana and down through Utah. I shot roll after roll of film. And I was convinced that every picture I took was the one that would bring me fame and fortune. And then I got home. And developed them.

And you know what? All but 5 out of 360 images sucked. Big time. Lousy. Toilet paper.

I repeated that same trip two years later with the same gear, a lot more experience and a lot more humilty. And you know what? My keeper ratio went up exponentially. In fact some of the pics from my second trip are some of my best sellers today.

Developing technique takes time, patience and study. Study the work of other photographers,and don't be afraid to ask them how they captured their images. Most photographers love to talk about their technique. Go to the bookstore and browse through the photography section. Maybe pick up a book or two. And ask all the questions you can. These forums are an excellent resource. No question is a bad question - we all started out sometime, and if anyone gives you trouble just ignore them. We are all still learning.

But perhaps there is no better advice that I can give you than this - get out there and get to know your gear. The great thing about digital is there are no film costs, and no developing fees. So wear that shutter button out.

I still keep a few pages of slides from that first big trip to Yellowstone because they remind me just how far I have come. Back then I was frustrated. Today I just laugh. Enjoy the journey.

[IndyJeff]

Some people have already touched on this but let me give you an example.

During the Indy 500 a crash in turn 3, where I am, will result in 12-15 people shooting anywhere from 8-20 frames of that crash. AP uses generally 1.
Sometimes 2 guys will have the same angle but one will be chosen over the other simply because of background, foreground or maybe debris that is flying threw the air in one is not visable in the other due to too much zoom on the second shot.

Remember quanity is not your objective, it should be to get one shot that is what the client is looking for. Of course if your shooting stock, throw that idea out the window.