Boxing - Black & Whites

[muls]

Started on this while creating a border for a gallery type print...Also a possible gallery show that myself and another photographer were contacted on...some will stay and some will go, but I thought I'd throw them up for some comments...Have a couple of days of gymwork this week, so I'll probably concentrate on this personal project a bit...

http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=1733

Ed

[topsyturvy6234]

Incredible images - I love the first one and the 'ghost' one.

Fantastic...

[Photodawg1]

Those are of course, Fabulous. Like the closeup work. Good to see the B&W's boxing shots coming back. I especially like #'s 1,3 and 4. Going to have to take my new elan7 and Ilford film and find a ring to skulk around!

[muls]

Thanks for the comments, I'll be growing the series as it goes on and will probably turn it into some kind of artsy b&w piece documentary style...we'll see...Work In Progress...hehe

[DwightMcCann]

Are you still showing those old things around? :-)

I am swamped and am not sure when I will be able to get my fight pictures up ... and I have been contacted by a management company for an artist I shot who wants to do approval for commercial use of some images that I wasn't planning on. I'm not sure all this success is worth the trouble, is it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Croasdail]

Muls.... I generally avoid your post not because they aren't good, but because everytime I see them, I want to try my hand at capturing this stuff too. And once again, I got suckered in when I saw the b/w comment. This sport lends itself to B/W so well... and you have done a great job with it. I can only try to get good at so much.... and I am stretched as is. But with that said, I am working up in New Jersey on a regular basis and if you know of some low key stuff I can just get a taster at up that way... I would love to hear about it. It is something I would love to add to my portfolio at some point in time..... it just may not be now. Great shots as they communicate the feeling of the event well. Cheers.

Hey Dwight.... you know... .you can always just say no. It will take care of the being too busy issue real quick.

[Photodawg1]

Hey Dwight.... you know... .you can always just say no. It will take care of the being too busy issue real quick.

Nah, me thinks he doth protest too much!

[Photodawg1]

[quote=Croasdail]Muls.... a But with that said, I am working up in New Jersey on a regular basis and if you know of some low key stuff I can just get a taster at up that way... I would love to hear about it. It is something I would love to add to my portfolio at some point in time..... it just may not be now. Great shots as they communicate the feeling of the event well. Cheers.

You know Mark, I working like crazy trying to build my portfolio, and you just did what I have wanted to do with about 10 people on this forum...I didn't add earlier, because I thought it would be rude to try and jump a ride on your request, but after thinking about it. I wish the forum had "workshops" kind of like sportshooters. So much talent on here. I wish we could get the Dwights, and Muls and like to offer POTN Workshops. I know they are horribly busy, and I know this thought is probably delusional, but can you imagine???

[DwightMcCann]

Hey Dwight.... you know... .you can always just say no. It will take care of the being too busy issue real quick.

You have no idea how much stuff I already turn down ... I am over my head just working with my ongoing clients.

[Croasdail]

Dwight - honestly - I can sort off imagine. I am sure it is nothing compared to what you get based on the body of work I have, but I do get a lot of request that I have to figure out polite ways of saying no... largely because they are well outside of my comfort zone... and I don't have the time to work on net new stuff... I have enough of a hard time getting the time to shoot the stuff I need to shoot to get better in my real area of concentration. Hence my note to Mulls.... if I had the chance while up in NJ to shoot some low level stuff and I were free... I would jump at it. But really, right now I can't bend my schedule too much because I would have to be doing so at the expense of something else. And as my son is a senior in High School this year... spending time with him is a huge priority now... man did the time go fast.

Photodawg.... you said it. I have been so frustrated by the opportunities for true learning it has been drivng me crazy. Too the point of thinking of starting a competitor to SS. If anything I would love to start a group that does just that - workshops for sports. The fact Sportsshooter doesn't have an apprentice program drives me nuts. For what ever reason I have not been able to unlock the secret door there... perhaps it is my shots suck... perhaps it is the fact that I work for the universities directly rather then the media.... perhaps it is my piss poor english... who knows. And really, I don't want the secret decoder ring or the SS hat... just the opportunity to learn. But what ever... another topic for another thread... another day.

Mulls - thanks again for the great shots... very nice inspirational work.

[Photodawg1]

Mark,
I echo your comments about SS. I know it will be ions before my quality is at a point I can even try to penetrate that one. I feel kind of like they have a glass ceiling and if you aren't a banging college student or grad, they don't even want you looking at the site. (Don't mean to sound so harsh, but am frustrated with roadblocks like that). I am too old to jump through the traditional hoops, and do alot of learning on my own (I know, it shows). I am getting by, but I know I need more instruction with certain things. So I am in... to help with and participate with any kind of instructional network or workshops.
btw...Do you have a webpage or gallery?

[Croasdail]

I do... it is buzzershot.com. I just finnished this summer reworking the hidden customer side to it... need to redo the public area... it is showing from neglect.

[gmen]

Ed... the B&W conversions work beautifully... coupled with the borders/captions, you've got plenty of potential there for a gallery showing. Looking forward to seeing the work in progress come to fruition ;)

I am swamped ...Tell me about it Dwight :lol:

Too the point of thinking of starting a competitor to SS. If anything I would love to start a group that does just that - workshops for sports. There might be some mileage there if you target it to a different audience. I have to admit that starting a site in the style of ss.com in the UK crosses my mind fairly frequently... SportsShooter is an excellent resource, but I don't get 110% out of my membership due to the geographics involved.

I feel kind of like they have a glass ceiling and if you aren't a banging college student or grad, they don't even want you looking at the site. There are a few members who post here... and they're not all students/grads. I'm a member and my student days are long behind me... and I graduated in something very non-photographic ;)

(Also, got your e-mail... sorry I've not replied as yet... My only excuse is being 'swamped' ;) I'll try to post some more thoughts in Zilly's thread over in 'Cornering The Pros' once I get my brain in gear again!)

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

Mentorships, Assistants and Apprentices: I am often asked by togs if they can be my assistant ... even for one event. I always say, "You will have to go to the back of the line which stretches from the casino into Santa Barbara." This is a lie! The line has no front. For several reasons: I can't take anyone into the casino to shoot with me. When I hit the casino an hour early for an event I don't have time to give instructions to an assistant. But most of all training someone to do what I do would require a huge percentage of my life for months. When I hung out with Ed for the weigh-in and fight, I tried to make sure I was not in his way, allowed him to tell me what he thought I needed to know, tried not to bug him with too many questions and acted as independently as I normally do. At the fights proper I positioned myself on the other side of the judge and brought the newspaper's intern onto my side to buffer him further so he would not feel obliged to attend to me. The best photographers are efficient ... their workflow is clear, clean, crisp, without waste or distraction while they are working. I tried to do all my pestering while we were shooting foothills, vineyards and miniature horses. I am saying this to try to bring a little perspective on this idea of assistanting to learn ... it is a huge burden on the mentor and not one that can easily be taken on by those trying to establish themselves in a very competitive environment.

[gmen]

The best photographers are efficient ... their workflow is clear, clean, crisp, without waste or distraction while they are working ... it is a huge burden on the mentor and not one that can easily be taken on by those trying to establish themselves in a very competitive environment.I would agree with this. It's easier to give advice in the forum environment rather than on location on assignment.

When shooting sports, allowing yourself to be distracted at the 'wrong' moment can lead to abject failure :lol:

I always try to be helpful whenever possible... but I like to remain 'in the zone' for the important part ;)

---- Gavin

[Croasdail]

But I don't think that is what is being suggested here. And probably we should jump out of Mulls thread here out of respect for him. But, for instance, I am doing a workshop around horse racing with Dave Black in a couple of months. He is a pretty busy guy. It's a one weekend thing . Workshops work well because you have a prep session... then you go shoot by yourself, then you have a debrief after to go over images, lessons learned and get advice. I don't think, well at least I am not interested in playing let me be your little buddy for the day. I personnaly love teaching. To me that is what photography is about... sharing... whether it be vision or knowledge. Compitition be damned. To me it is fun, and when it stops being fun, I will stop. There is always another way to make money that if you are doing it just for that.... well.... then I am sorry because there are a lot more lucrative ways to do it.

And sorry mulls for this.... I retract my previous question to you.... cheers.

[DwightMcCann]

I would agree with this. It's easier to give advice in the forum environment rather than on location on assignment.

When shooting sports, allowing yourself to be distracted at the 'wrong' moment can lead to abject failure :lol:

I always try to be helpful whenever possible... but I like to remain 'in the zone' for the important part ;)

---- Gavin

Gavin, I need to be your intern at the "Big Events". :p

[gmen]

Gavin, I need to be your intern at the "Big Events". :p:lol: We'll have to do a Test Match one day! Cricket does allow time for a chat ;)

Ed - You could have a lucrative career in paid workshops you know ;)

---- Gavin

[DwightMcCann]

:lol: We'll have to do a Test Match one day! Cricket does allow time for a chat ;)

---- Gavin

Oh, Wow, yes ... do Test Matches last five days? :cool:

[Photodawg1]

But I don't think that is what is being suggested here. And probably we should jump out of Mulls thread here out of respect for him. But, for instance, I am doing a workshop around horse racing with Dave Black in a couple of months. He is a pretty busy guy. It's a one weekend thing . Workshops work well because you have a prep session... then you go shoot by yourself, then you have a debrief after to go over images, lessons learned and get advice. I don't think, well at least I am not interested in playing let me be your little buddy for the day. I personnaly love teaching. To me that is what photography is about... sharing... whether it be vision or knowledge. Compitition be damned. To me it is fun, and when it stops being fun, I will stop. There is always another way to make money that if you are doing it just for that.... well.... then I am sorry because there are a lot more lucrative ways to do it.

And sorry mulls for this.... I retract my previous question to you.... cheers.Mark, I agree with all you said above but I think you are of a caliber and Ed sounds approachable enough to consider looking out for you while you are in his neck of woods, like Dwight did for him. I don't think you should retract your question. I understand what D & G are saying. also, I feel bad for jumping on the your request. I am resourceful and learning how to get close to the action without mentors. I joined another horse forum yesterday and had an email from a photog asking me if I would be interested in shooting for them Saturday. so I getting by learning on my own, just always seeking affirmation here...just working you my POTN cyber teachers so hard to bring this pygmylian up to snuff!

[Croasdail]

No problems here.... good luck with the horse shooting. Racing is fun and fast. I am hooked. Just need to convince my wife that photography is why I want to spend some afternoons at the track. And I will get my chance to shoot boxing... there is just so much more of everything up in NJ an NY... trying to take advantage of it while I can.

[DwightMcCann]

It was not my intention or thought to suggest that Mark shouldn't approach Muls, only to try to keep perspective on why these things often don't work out and give a little depth to the thought. I would not dream to speak for Muls or Gavin on such personal issue. To be quite honest, the only person/people that I would mentor personally on any ongoing basis would be someone that I wanted to become involved in my business with me at some level. And I assure you I asked Muls about that ... he was kind enough to simply deflect me elsewhere. :-)

[muls]

All this banter...I have no problem helping anyone out, and Gavin although I might be able to cash out, have no intention, nor time to run a seminar (although I would be fun, maybe in the future who knows)...I'll help just about anyone, sincerely looking to further their knowledge...

Dwight, I didnt deflect you elsewhere, I just dont have contracts for photographers ready, I will probably be set up for your next fight though, I believe there is a show in Sept...

Ed

[DwightMcCann]

muls, I used "deflect" to mean "didn't answer explicitly" ... I was just admitting that I asked about it. Anyway, didn't mean to step on your toes ... I guess I'm just grumpy or busy or something.

[Croasdail]

Hey Dwight... no biggie.

Mulls - if you know of some low key action in piss poor venues where they wouldn't mind a shooter - I would love to take advantage of it. If not, I am keeping plenty busy over at Monmouth and the Meadowlands. I shouldn't have asked this question in the forum.

Gavin - you would absolutely be on my short list of guest photographers if I ever pull this thing together. If your ever interested...We have direct flights here from London. I am sure the cost could be covered.

Cheers all.

[DwightMcCann]

Let me make amends ... here's what Ed was shooting with me.

[gmen]

I have no problem helping anyone out, and Gavin although I might be able to cash out, have no intention, nor time to run a seminar (although I would be fun, maybe in the future who knows)...I'll help just about anyone, sincerely looking to further their knowledge...You'll have to keep the seminars on the back-burner until you retire Ed ;)

This thread has developed into something quite interesting in the context of this forum. There are numerous (very good) photographers here who are all willing to help others out, both in a written form on the forum and in person (where time and assignments allow).

A certain amount of 'networking' and 'contact swapping' will be the inevitable result of this. I'd guess that a few of us have considered taking on/commissioning other photographers to cover assignments/become part of our businesses.

That's a good thing. The forum allows for this through the regular sharing of work and (perhaps equally importantly) the 'banter' that takes place is helpful in developing relationships... in a different manner to the way the threads develop on ss.com for example.

As for seminars and workshops... well... that's a bigger issue... The folk at ss.com have those bases fairly well covered in the US... but who knows what the future may hold. Sometimes I wonder how my own career would have developed if I was based in the States.

Gavin - you would absolutely be on my short list of guest photographers if I ever pull this thing together. If your ever interested...We have direct flights here from London. I am sure the cost could be covered.I am determined to get myself over there at some point Mark... it'd be peachy.

Ahhh well... Enough waffling... back to the speedway track. Shale-tastic.

---- Gavin