agressive dog training and my new sigma APO 70-300 :).... 56k warning

[bc4393]

Took my new Sigma 70-300 APO lense for a test run today with my friend Sally and her sheperd. The guy who run the class wants some of thse for his website. I had a blast and produced quite a few usable images. I'm happy. :) One of them I cleaned up a bit the other day when I took them the rest are pre processing but I was too excited to wait to share.

http://www.brianmile.com/gallery/pictures/IMG_1360.JPG
http://www.brianmile.com/gallery/pictures/IMG_1466.JPG
http://www.brianmile.com/gallery/pictures/IMG_1395.JPG
http://www.brianmile.com/gallery/pictures/IMG_1392%20copy.jpg

[Reeforbust]

Sorry.....not to bash girls...But there is NO WAY in Hati that I am gonna let that girl hold that Psycho dog while I "raise a stick" to it!!??:confused:

Is he nuts?:lol:


Nice captures!!;)

[bc4393]

that dog is suck a sweetie too, shes neevr even growled at me let alone not want to be petted. Or maybe i just have a knack for "killer dogs"

[Photodawg1]

AWESOME!!! I love them. My big shep/pit mix is like that a total sweetie, but now my Dallas, crazy blue heeler won't even allow someone to say hi to me on the street...even if they are in a car!

[tpetty]

great images, but I agree with Reeforbust on the holding part!

[Anthony J Howe]

Wow that chap is brave. I would be petrified if that young woman accidentally let go.
Nice series of shots, shots well taken.

[PAFC2004]

Great images, but I am totally against this form of training.

[Elisabeth-Ann]

They are great images, but I am amazed that the "bad guys" are not wearing any form of protection. I am assuming this is "alert" training, which my dog went through some years ago. She was naturally aggressive and we did the training to make it easier to control her in case she became aggressive with the wrong person. It was not cruel, she was never hit with anything, the guy who was the "bad guy" was padded up and all he did was run around and make noise and wave his arms or a stick in the air, banging on doors, and the dog was never allowed to get close enough to bite. Her training was simply to enable us to control her better, and to enable us to use her to frighten the hell out of an intruder should it be necessary. Harnessing her aggression saved her life and mine in a situation where I was held by an intruder with a gun to my head a few years ago. If Niki had been allowed to go uncontrolled, she might have been shot, and so might I. As it was, she had no room to attack the gunman, and obeyed my orders to sit and stay, but continued to raise the alarm by barking non-stop, which caused the robber to hurry up and get what he wanted and leave quickly. She has also been effective in keeping an unarmed intruder backed up against a tree while we called the police. Niki is 11 years old, and she has never bitten anyone, only scared the happy hell out of them, and they deserved it! She is well controlled and a sweet, friendly dog to everyone that we introduce to her.

[mferg]

It looks like they are doing some kind of protection sport training. I don't know if it's schutzhund (my sport), a ring sport, or PSA. The first picture makes me think it's schutzhund or maybe PSA (I haven't seen that sport, don't know if they use just a sleeve or bite suits) since there is only the sleeve. The helpers (agitators) wouldn't be engaging the dogs sans protection if they didn't have complete trust in the ability of the handler to hold the dog. The dogs are probably very good natured dogs in reality. The helper in red is probably working on getting the dog to focus more on the person than the equipment. He probably only did this for a couple minutes and then put on a sleeve and worked the dog with bites on the sleeve.

It's really cool stuff to see, but it's not easy to understand it all when shown out of context and if you don't have a clear understanding of the sports. This type of training does not make the dogs more viscious or less controlled. It actually makes the dogs more controlled. I've got hoards of protection type pictures that I would love to share. Perhaps when I get home, I'll post a few.

[Photodawg1]

It looks like they are doing some kind of protection sport training. I don't know if it's schutzhund (my sport), a ring sport, or PSA. The first picture makes me think it's schutzhund or maybe PSA (I haven't seen that sport, don't know if they use just a sleeve or bite suits) since there is only the sleeve. The helpers (agitators) wouldn't be engaging the dogs sans protection if they didn't have complete trust in the ability of the handler to hold the dog. The dogs are probably very good natured dogs in reality. The helper in red is probably working on getting the dog to focus more on the person than the equipment. He probably only did this for a couple minutes and then put on a sleeve and worked the dog with bites on the sleeve.

It's really cool stuff to see, but it's not easy to understand it all when shown out of context and if you don't have a clear understanding of the sports. This type of training does not make the dogs more viscious or less controlled. It actually makes the dogs more controlled. I've got hoards of protection type pictures that I would love to share. Perhaps when I get home, I'll post a few. Yes, hurry up and get home...we are waiting. Good to see a response from someone who understands!

[hauff]

I agree with mferg. this is not schutzhund, it appears to be more of a protective type training. It should be noted that not only is she hanging onto the dog but the dog is strapped to her via a heavy leather strap that is attached to the dog, goes around her midsection and back to the dog again. This training is absolutley harmless to the dog when done properly . It will make any dog a better dog and the dogs enjoy it immensely.

[sushrut]

Great images!

But not useful for dog training website.
look at the GSD’s leash. Its wrapped around lady’s body. Shows lack of control on aggressive dog.
Also if trainer / handler needs to pull the dog back physically, it’s a sign of bad training. Dog should be controlled by commands and not by physical power.
I would NEVER NEVER NEVER send my dog to such a trainer.

I am sure your friends are great dog trainers. But your pictures show opposite.

[sushrut]

It looks like they are doing some kind of protection sport training. I don't know if it's schutzhund (my sport), a ring sport, or PSA. The first picture makes me think it's schutzhund or maybe PSA (I haven't seen that sport, don't know if they use just a sleeve or bite suits) since there is only the sleeve. The helpers (agitators) wouldn't be engaging the dogs sans protection if they didn't have complete trust in the ability of the handler to hold the dog. The dogs are probably very good natured dogs in reality. The helper in red is probably working on getting the dog to focus more on the person than the equipment. He probably only did this for a couple minutes and then put on a sleeve and worked the dog with bites on the sleeve.

It's really cool stuff to see, but it's not easy to understand it all when shown out of context and if you don't have a clear understanding of the sports. This type of training does not make the dogs more viscious or less controlled. It actually makes the dogs more controlled. I've got hoards of protection type pictures that I would love to share. Perhaps when I get home, I'll post a few.

Great photographs. I loved them.

I am not schutzhund guru. But I am serious about training dogs. One should never use physical power to control dog. A good GSD or a Rottweiler or a BullMastiff has far more power than typical human. You can NOT control them with your muscles.

Yah. i agree, dogs are probably very good natured dogs. Rather I feel that dogs are always good natured. Humans spoil them with bad handling and bad breeding.

Once again.. great photographs. I loved them.

[mferg]

A lot of what's being said and inferred from these pictures (along with the thread, title, unfortunately) goes to show that a picture is worth a thousand words, but they may not produce the accurate words (and, hence, picture). The people are not trying to hold their dogs back as a form of control on the dogs. They are building drive. Although the dogs looks sinister and enraged, they are not. They are having fun. I've been around schutzhund for 11+ years and my interpretation of the activity is that the helper (the guy in red) is acting suspicious and aggressive toward the dogs to induce drive. In a coarse sort of explanation, the guy is teasing the dog. The people are holding the dogs back to get the dogs more frustrated, excited and fired up. The guy is likely to retreat to a hiding place and collect his protective sleeve when the dogs are at a high point. Just at that time, the handler will let the dog run in after him. The handler will reward the dog by allowing it to have a bite on the sleeve and probably allow the dog to "win" by letting the dog have the sleeve to carry around its prize. I think one of the easiest ways to think of this is a very elaborate game of tug-of-war. And, the dog always wins. Usually, the dogs happily take the sleeve right back to the "bad guy" and shoves the sleeve right back at him. The dog knows how to get the game going again. It's one of those activities that's easier to understand if seen in its entirety with explanation along the way.

Okay, off my explanation stint. On to pictures! I'll select and resize some pix and post them (with explanations).

[mferg]

Okay, here is an interesting set of pictures (at least I think so). This is from ring sport training. This is called Defense of Handler. The handler sits in the chair with the dog actively, yet passively, keeping watch on the decoy (Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man in back). As soon as the decoy assaults the helper (plops a hand on her shoulder) the dog engages the decoy. Unfortnately, I missed the assault and was late on the dog going for the guy. The last picture shows the dog on the leg of the suit (see how much extra room is in that suit?).

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/20040014a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/20040013a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/20040015a.jpg

[mferg]

Here's one of my favorite pictures. They are working on the dog's barking. He knows he has to bark at the guy in this situation. The helper will make a move and engage the dog. Notice all the people standing in close proximity of the dog while this is going on? I was pretty close to the dog taking these shots, too. The line on the dog is not tight. He's not being held back with the line. The dog knows his position.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_1942a.jpg

[mferg]

These are an illustrative pair of pictures. This is the same dog and helper in both pictures separated by only a few mintues in time. The dog is totally calm when appropriate and then is fully active when the helper engages him. It shows that the dogs are not raving lunatics. Control is a big part of these sports.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_1948a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_1959a.jpg

[mferg]

This is a part of a schutzhund trial called the "Back Transport." The dog and handler escort the helper from behind. The helper turns and attacks the handler. The dog intercepts the helper. This shows the control of the dog to do obedience during the protection phase.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_0874a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_0875a.jpg

[mferg]

These pictures are from the 2005 USA National Schutzhund Championship. This exercise is called the "Escape." After the dog has found the helper in the blind, the handler orders him to step out and wait in a certain spot while the handler checks to see if the helper left anything in the blind. The dog is positioned to watch the helper and prevent an escape. Naturally, the helper attempts an escape and the dog's job is to stop him. The other person you see in the final picture is the judge.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_5519a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_5520a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_5521a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_5522a.jpg

[mferg]

Okay, here are the last of the pictures I'll post (at least for now). I'm sure I've worn out my welcome. This series of pictures is from the "Courage Test." The dog and handler stand at one end of the field. The helper exits the blind and runs at the helper aggressively. The dog is sent to intercept the helper. It's one of the most exciting excercises in the protection phase. (Schutzhund is a 3 phase sport that includes tracking, obedience and protection. The dog has to pass all three phases in one trial to obtain the title.) This series shows the catch of the dog.


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_0911a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_0912a.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/muttnut/IMG_0913a.jpg

[Photodawg1]

Nice series. Appreciate the captions too. I am going to see if we have any of these trials around here.

[shellti]

For a good place to find out about the sport of Schutzhund and to find a listing of upcoming events, you can go to http://www.dvgamerica.com

The sport is misunderstood by the public, often because of shots like the o.p. without the accompanying information. mferg did a very good job explaining the control that these well trained dogs MUST have to compete.

If you'd like to see more shots of the sport, from the DVG America National Championship, look at this thread in the sports section. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185413

[Photodawg1]

For a good place to find out about the sport of Schutzhund and to find a listing of upcoming events, you can go to http://www.dvgamerica.com

If you'd like to see more shots of the sport, from the DVG America National Championship, look at this thread in the sports section. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185413 I remember your thread, really excellent photos. Thanks for the link. Looks like there is one coming in my area in November. I will try to go. Thanks for info!

[mferg]

Another place to look for information is www.germanshepherddog.com. That's the United Schutzhund Clubs of America website.