1Ds 11mp second body for 5D

[weka2000]

There is a 1Ds with a reserve of 1500NZD about 1200USD for sale. I already have a 5D and was wondering if it would make a good second body / bush waterfall camera.

Thoughts and comments.

[willg]

wow that sounds like a fantastic deal. I was looking at a 1d for around that price. I don't know a lot about the 1ds, but it sounds like its very similiar to the 5d in terms of resolution and speed. If thats what you need, then yes it would be good for those harsh shooting conditions, but if you wanted some speed, then maybe check out the 1d or 1dII

[weemannie]

If its in good condition, then that's a REALLY great deal. I've just got one for £1800 in the UK. The build quality and handling of 1 series is a joy to behold. :D

[nation]

Presumably this is an ebay auction and the price you will be than more likely move above the 1,500NZD reserve. If not then I agree with the others 1,500NZD looks like a great buy and an excellent second body for your more rugged shooting.

[blinking8s]

1ds still rocks...slow, but it takes some insane photos

[calicokat]

At any price, its a great camera. Not that great at high ISO, but its a great piece of equipment

[Dante King]

for studio work it will excel!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

Great camera,
two drawbacla are FPS and high ISO noise,. but id speed is not your #1 requirement than hardly anything to worry about ...

What you do need to worry about is that after using it for a while you may love the 1D more than your 5D and feel the NEED for the 1Ds MkII :shock: :)

[coreypolis]

personally I'd rather have a 1ds than a 5d. thats a really really low price, so either expect it to go up, or be weary. I did sell here for USD 2200.

[wilflee]

The 1Ds sufferes from ISO noise. Even at ISO400, the pixels form little rings that make up the picture. This is not good if you're trying to blow up the picture.

If you have no immediate need for a second camera. Stick with the 5D and wait until the 1Ds MkII price drops. That is bound to happen in a year after the MkII's successor makes it to the market.

[weka2000]

I think all these cameras are acting like a bird that acts wounded to draw you aay from the nest :rolleyes:
I my case the nest is a Sigma 120-300 F2.8.

[dpastern]

The 1Ds sufferes from ISO noise. Even at ISO400, the pixels form little rings that make up the picture. This is not good if you're trying to blow up the picture.

If you have no immediate need for a second camera. Stick with the 5D and wait until the 1Ds MkII price drops. That is bound to happen in a year after the MkII's successor makes it to the market.

I disagree. Thousands of pros used the 1DS and took many a shot for commercial and modelling jobs without ANY issues. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's no longer any good.

Weka - at the price, grab it, that's an ABSOLUTE steal. To give you an idea, I'm seeing 2nd hand 1Ds's in Australia going for around AU $3500 with around 50k shutter actuations. That's around NZ $3700 or so I think.

Dave

[pfogle]

There is a 1Ds with a reserve of 1500NZD about 1200USD for sale. I already have a 5D and was wondering if it would make a good second body / bush waterfall camera.

Thoughts and comments.Is this an auction? On ebay things often sell for high prices - more than you'd pay in a dealer's in many cases. If it's a firm price, great, but otherwise I'd expect that price is just wishful thinking.

[weka2000]

for studio work it will excel!!

How so over the 5D?

The reason why im looking at this 1Ds is for my landscape / waterfall photography. With the 17-40 I have a nice weather sealed camera.

[wilflee]

I disagree. Thousands of pros used the 1DS and took many a shot for commercial and modelling jobs without ANY issues. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's no longer any good. Well, I said the problem with 1Ds is noise @ high ISOs. At the L ISO setting or even 100 ISO setting, the image is fine. At 200, it gets questionable. At 400, it is not pretty. The 5D @ ISO400 will take cleaner pictures than the 1Ds. This is especially true if you want to crop and blow up the picture. The newer generation of 1Ds (mk II) has better sensor & software to reduce the noice.

In any case, you be the judge. I shot the following with a 1Ds (firmware 1.0.3) @ f/2.8 1/5000 ISO400. The lens is a EF 24-70 f/2.8 set @ 70mm. The picture is a 100% crop. Only alteration done was levels & curves (to correct color & exposure). No sharpening as the noise worsens with sharpening.

As you can see, the noise level in the mid tones is just horrible. May be the pros who use the 1Ds have a way to deal with this. I don't know. And would love to learn if there is a way.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1286/879s8329pt9.jpg

[dpastern]

Well, that's interesting, cos I have a 1D, and that's worse noise than me shooting at ISO 800. The 1Ds was released after the 1D, and featured Canon's Digic I digital processing engine chipset, which was an improvement (I believe) over the 1D's processing capabilities (noise etc). If I didn't know any better, I'd say something was wrong with that camera.

As I said, many, many photographer's used the 1Ds successfully in modelling, commercial art, fashion etc without issues and the quality of the images is/was outstanding. Whilst what you've shown appears to be the case with your old unit, I would hesitate to say that it's not indicative of the normal performance of a 1Ds. Maybe others can show their results with the original 1Ds and we can gather a bit more thought on this. I don't have a 1Ds and have never used one.

Dave

[coreypolis]

Well, I said the problem with 1Ds is noise @ high ISOs. At the L ISO setting or even 100 ISO setting, the image is fine. At 200, it gets questionable. At 400, it is not pretty. The 5D @ ISO400 will take cleaner pictures than the 1Ds. This is especially true if you want to crop and blow up the picture. The newer generation of 1Ds (mk II) has better sensor & software to reduce the noice.

In any case, you be the judge. I shot the following with a 1Ds (firmware 1.0.3) @ f/2.8 1/5000 ISO400. The lens is a EF 24-70 f/2.8 set @ 70mm. The picture is a 100% crop. Only alteration done was levels & curves (to correct color & exposure). No sharpening as the noise worsens with sharpening.

As you can see, the noise level in the mid tones is just horrible. May be the pros who use the 1Ds have a way to deal with this. I don't know. And would love to learn if there is a way.



can you post the original, unedited, uncropped? that is way worse than any i've seen, and would be unacceptable for a camera of that calibar.

[weka2000]

I will soon see Monday when I take it for a test. But at least im going in with both eyes open.

[John_Paul]

1Ds "second body for the 5D" LOL!!!!

OMG.... last year, on DPR, ..(as my former screen name "Beerboy").. I gave some hints about the upcoming 5D. Some dude named "Gotya" was making all kinds of rumor claims that I know weren't true,..and I pointed out that if he had actually seen it, he would have mentioned it's "obvious feature".. / the large screen on the back, which I didn't specifically say, because that was one of the things I couldn't reveal.. but I did sugfgest that those of you who had 20D bodies, you may want to keep them... those of you who had 1DMkII bodies... keep them....those who had 1DsMkII bodies.,..keep them, but those who had 1Ds bodies,....you might just want to sell them (while you can still get 4,800 for them used!).. LOL!! Since the 5D was introduced, the 1Ds has plunged into the flusher!! It wasn't that long ago that it was selling at a "reduced" price of 7,200.00 new.. and now,...used,...it isn't even worth half that!

I wouldn't buy one.

One of the things I like to have are two identical camera bodies, so I can switch from one body to the other without getting goofed up with the controls after getting used to one camera.. I often shoot with more than one camera.. mostly two,.. now, I'd like to get my hands on another 5D, and another 1DMkII body for the stuff I shoot.. Switching between the super smooth controls of the 5D, to the "hold this down and press this, and do that"..controls of the 1DMkII body is so anoying.. especially when you are in a jam and have to make a change to your exposure, iso,..etc, under the gun.. and missing shots that don't take place twice because you are fiddeling around with your gear, is unacceptable to the client..(& I so hate it when that happens)..

If you have a 5D, get another 5D.

JP

[weka2000]

The reasin for the 1Ds is for waterfalls and tramping through the bush. I need weathersealed and something that can take a beating. Salt air, sand and all the other araes that may otherwise damge my 5D.

ISO is not an issue 100-200.

[wilflee]

can you post the original, unedited, uncropped? that is way worse than any i've seen, and would be unacceptable for a camera of that calibar.
Unfortunately, I have to crop it due to original image being over 6 megs in size (not to mention 4704X2764 pixels) and 56K users will hate me. But here's the same one without any modification. Just cropped.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9706/snap1ro4.jpg

[John_Paul]

Unfortunately, I have to crop it due to original image being over 6 megs in size (not to mention 4704X2764 pixels) and 56K users will hate me. But here's the same one without any modification. Just cropped.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9706/snap1ro4.jpg

Yyyyyyyyyyyuck!!

That looks awful!! ......it's "usable" to some degree,...but I wouldn't want any of my cleints accepting THAT from me.. Oh boy..

JP

[wilflee]

Note the 50% crop looks a lot better. Still, the beard stubbles under the ear shows green patches.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3153/snap2tm1.jpg

15% crop.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8775/snap3nu1.jpg

Image from 5D didn't have these noise issues at ISO400. Unfortunately, I don't have an image from the 5D that I can show as it has the WA lens and all pictures are of faces. I'll try to find some images from the 20D to see if these problems exist. The 20D also uses the same DIGIC 2 processor as 5D but has the telephoto lens on it.

[coreypolis]

was it underexposed? I've seen plenty of other images from a 1ds and never seen noise to this degree

[coreypolis]

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds/1ds-field.shtml

[wilflee]

Ahhh...... That's the article I've been looking for. Thank you!

I think page 2 of the article illustrates my point --> http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds/1ds-field-2.shtml

There's a series of photos near the middle of the page where it shows 100% crops of pictures of Royal York Hotel & TD Center taken @ different ISOs. Focus on the area of the pictures containing middle grey (black tower at right 1/3 of the picture - the metal panels between windows is about the same level of grey as skin tone in the shade in my photo). Noise (the green & red blotches) @ ISO 50 & 100 looks fine. But ISO 200 starts to get iffy. ISO 400 is bad. ISO 800 is simply embarrasing. And ISO 1250 looks like the picture was shot with a 110 film camera.

The same noise will appear much worse if the picture was edited to enhance yellow as yellow sits between red & green on the color wheel (darkroom theory still useful these days :) ). And if the noise occurs on skin tone (as in my photo above), where human color perception is most sensitive, the noise stands out more than it would on a black metal panel.

Anyways, back on the topic of 1Ds as backup for 5D. The 1Ds is fine if you use it @ low ISO. But it's not a good high ISO camera as ISO 400 is the absolute max I would go to. I would wait until the 1Ds MkII prices drop and get that as 5D backup (or 5D as backup for 1Ds MkII).

[dpastern]

wilflee - I'll quote a comment from that particular page:

ISO 100 and 200 are virtually noise free while ISO 400 is very usable — certainly better than any ISO 400 colour film. ISO 800 and 1250 are noisy, but quite usable if needed.


That about says it all. I've never seen a 1Ds image that bad, so I'm with coreypolis here. If you stick to ISO 100-400 then you really shouldn't have too many issues. Sure, it's not as good as the 5D in noise performance, but it's highly usable still. If you're shooting high ISOs then I'd suggest a 5D or 1Ds Mark II.

Arthur Morris uses a 1Ds and he's sold a LOT of images. I think he knows what he's doing, and I think his customer's know what to look for. I'm not a pro, but stock agencies blowing up an image just to see details like this (that won't show on a usual A4 spread etc) are just idiotic. If I want to find fault with something, I sure as hell can if I look hard enough, and these types of images just appear to be that type of thing. If the image quality was as bad as you're saying, Canon would not have simply sold very many 1Ds bodies. Period. Bad products don't sell.

JP - your comments are valid to a point. A 5D is not weather sealed, nor is as strong as a 1Ds I imagine. Nor does it have the AF of a 1 series body. If you need those features, and can't afford a 1Ds mark II, as many of us can't, then a used 1Ds is a godsend, especially at these reduced prices!

Dave