NEW NIKON REVEALED

[Doctor Diesel]

its the D80, same dx sensor, 10 MP etc etc ie its a d200 but consumer grade.....meant to be around $1299 WITH AN 18-135MM LENS AND $999 BODY ONLY


sorry if its old news!

[DDA]

Nikon has announced the release of the D80. It is supposed to be on the shelves in September.
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25412#
What do you guys think of it? (just out of curiosity as I don't intend to switch ;-) )

[Doctor Diesel]

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25412

all the info

[blinking8s]

sd = lame

[grego]

Canon should offer more of this: spot metering to all their cameras, 11 focusing points. They at least pack full of features for a lower end model.

[Hexis]

SD/SDHC? Yuck.

[BryanP]

I personally think for the price, it's a great camera. Fast AF system, and tons of features. Definitely a significant upgrade from the old D70. It's more like a watered down D200 which really gives the 30D a run for its money.

[Hermeto]

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond80/

[BryanP]

Great camera. Definitely a good upgrade from the D70 as it's pretty much a downgraded D200 (actually the AF system is refined).

*touche*

[grego]

SD/SDHC is no problem. Cheaper cards.

Not that I think its a thing to throw the camera out, but if you are thinking long term, most cameras(unless you jump high) use CF cards. That woudl be one con to weigh against pros when looking.

[blinking8s]

SD/SDHC is no problem. Cheaper cards.

but when/if you upgrade, what good does it do you?

there are two discussions of the d80 here, mod hurry!

[BryanP]

That's true. Point taken on the con for the SD card in terms of longetivity.

[Juan Zas]

Well, we must wait for the Canon´s answer to all this. My next body it will be there, but I assume I must wait until Spring´07.

[farrukh]

Its a big stroke by Nikon this time. D80 is waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of 30D in features.

[DDA]

I posted mine at the same time as Doctor Diesel.. If a mod could merge the two, it would be great ;-)

[grego]

Its a big stroke by Nikon this time. D80 is waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of 30D in features.

Depends where you are talking about. If you are talking about XT, then yes, it beats it, but the XT is much cheaper. The 30D is only a little bit more expensive body only.

Megapixels isn't a big difference.
The D80 loses(compared to 30D) in shutter speed, fps, buffer, flash card(SD is not as useful).

But the D80 has some inriguing features.

[farrukh]

SWM (Silent Wave Motor) in their kit lens. So finally Nikon got answer for Canon's USM.

[Bonjour43ma]

^^^ in what way?

[BryanP]

SWM (Silent Wave Motor) in their kit lens. So finally Nikon got answer for Canon's USM.

They've had the same technology. USM is the same as their AF-S technology. SWM is nothing new. AF-S been out for quite awhile.

[Doctor Diesel]

I like the wireless flash feature built in to it

also. it pushes the price/features ratio ever in us, the users, favour

wonder how solid it feels!

[grego]

I like the wireless flash feature built in to it

also. it pushes the price/features ratio ever in us, the users, favour

wonder how solid it feels!

Nikon has always been feature friendly. Sadly, Canon is slow to hand out stuff in the lower level(1/3 ISO stop finally put in 30D along with spot metering)

[farrukh]

Depends where you are talking about. If you are talking about XT, then yes, it beats it, but the XT is much cheaper. The 30D is only a little bit more expensive body only.

Megapixels isn't a big difference.
The D80 loses(compared to 30D) in shutter speed, fps, buffer, flash card(SD is not as useful).

But the D80 has some inriguing features.

You're right about the shutter.
11 area AF point and 2700 images per charge are so interesting.

[Doctor Diesel]

sorry dda, didn't mean to tread on your toes!

I spotted it on engadget.com

[farrukh]

They've had the same technology. USM is the same as their AF-S technology. SWM is nothing new. AF-S been out for quite awhile.

Then what is SWM?

[farrukh]

Another vote for merge :-)

[BryanP]

Then what is SWM?

It's the technology behind AF-S

"The Silent Wave Motor (SWM) enables fast and quiet autofocusing, and quick switching between autofocus and manual operation."

It's their equivalent of the USM basically.

[DDA]

sorry dda, didn't mean to tread on your toes!

I spotted it on engadget.com

Don't worry, we were writing at the same time ;-) I checked Nikon website this morning as I knew they were due to release something...

[Tom W]

lol I can't wait to see the super biased Canon users flame this camera on this forum.

Probably won't find too many Nikon fanboys on a Canon-oriented forum.

Oh wait!!!! I forgot though, it doesn't do high ISO well so I guess this camera is a failure right? :rolleyes:

Right - we can't let things like image quality cloud the discussion.

[BryanP]

Probably won't find too many Nikon fanboys on a Canon-oriented forum.



Right - we can't let things like image quality cloud the discussion.

I'm already aware of that. I was pretty much stating the obvious in the first sentence because I find it humorous when I see threads about anything Nikon related, and read all the rants about it in the associated posts inside.

The thing about the ISO is ONE of the most often brought up issues about Nikons again and again. I wanted to just bring it up so no one brings up the same reason why the camera is weak over and over again. Post after post, especially over a new camera, when the property is obviously a popular issue within almost all Nikons.

If theres something in my post thats so shocking, then maybe I should delete it. But I edited for you. But I'm sure you get the idea of what I was trying to say. It was mainly directed towards people who just post stuff like "who cares its a Nikon, blah blah."

And I know you're not one of them.

[Carzee]

Viewfinder is a good plus. "Magnification approx. 0.94x"

[Jim G]

Yay! More decent competition = Canon will get off their butt and do more stuff to really impress us. Damn that's alot of shots per battery charge - imagine a battery grip giving you 5400 shots! I could shoot for weeks on that much.

++ Interesting conditions for the battery life:

"*Achieved under the following test conditions: Fully charged EN-EL3e battery; temperature of 20°C/68°F; Zoom-Nikkor AF-S DX 18-135mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED lens; continuous shooting mode: continuous-servo autofocus; image quality set to JPEG BASIC; image size set to Medium; shutter speed 1/250 second; shutter release pressed halfway for three seconds and focus cycled from infinity to minimum range three times with each shot; monitor turned on for five seconds after six shots and then turned off; cycle repeated once exposure meters turned off."

I wonder how much having it on basic as opposed to the highest will alter it.. on the flip side I don't know how often you cycle through the full focus range three times per shot :p

[metoyou]

Megapixel madness strikes again!
Just take picures and be damned!

[stupot]

In-Camera Image Editing with Retouching Menu: Highly versatile in-camera editing features include Nikon D-lighting, Red-eye Correction, Image Trimming, Image Overlay, Monochrome Black and White, Sepia and Cyanotype along with Skylight, Warm Tone and Custom Color filter effects.

I worry when the put this crap in-camera:)

[Doctor Diesel]

all the in-camera crap is probably to entice the p&s owners...hopefully when they discover more they will realise thats what photoshop is for!

[mR_CaESaR]

looks like a very good camera, i guess we'll have to wait and see how the image quality is like. Wonder if there's ever going to be an answer for canon's high ISO sensors.

All i can say is, Canon have their work cut out for them and if they don't release anything "earth shattering" this october, a lot of sales will be lost.

if only canon release a "3D" at 30d price then every canon fanboy will be happy :) :D

I know i won't jump ship anytime soon though :)

I'm canon for life!! lol

[chris clements]

Either Sony are letting Nikon have their sensor at a cut-down price, or Nikon are taking a big margin cut to get down to this price point.

Now Sony have their own bodies to exploit in-house chips, I'd expected Nikon to be squeezed or made to pay a premium. Even if the relationship continues, I'd bet that when Sony next upgrade their sensor, it'll appear first in the Alpha 200/300 rather than the D300/400.

[Carzee]

I would be using a Noink only if my fav lens, the 135L, said Noink instead of Canon.

[grego]

I would be using a Noink only if my fav lens, the 135L, said Noink instead of Canon.

Don't they have like a 200 f/2 VR though?

[ron chappel]

Another very interesting release.
I haven't checked out all the features yet but aren't they undercutting canon on price?
This is something i've noticing abit lately -everyone is less expensive than canon :(. Quite a change from several years ago when canon ALLWAYS had the best performance as well as the lowest price.

[chris clements]

Quite a change from several years ago when canon ALLWAYS had the best performance as well as the lowest price.
... but that was before they gained something like a 70% stranglehold on the sector.
Hopefully, the D80 and Sony's arrival will end Canon's specification complacency and bring their margins back down.

[Lightstream]

Interesting. A Nikon-using friend was eyeing a good telephoto zoom and I could not find him an equivalent of our EF 70-300 IS USM. Sure, it may not be an L, but it is a superb lens.

Interesting enough that Nikon has now released an AF-S (SWM/USM) 70-300 VR to compete with this zoom. As an additional plus, they seem to have one-upped us with true ring USM, instead of micro USM. AFAIK, Nikon has no micro-USM equivalent, so it is either full ring SWM/USM or conventional DC drive.

Good developments and incentive for Canon to upgrade.

[grego]

Another very interesting release.
I haven't checked out all the features yet but aren't they undercutting canon on price?
This is something i've noticing abit lately -everyone is less expensive than canon :(. Quite a change from several years ago when canon ALLWAYS had the best performance as well as the lowest price.

How? Isn't it supposed to be 999 USD (body only)?

The XT, is like about 650
The 30D is like 1250. The D200 is like 1600.

Feature wise, I wish Canon would keep up, and put more into their lower end, but price wise, Canon is actually better priced. Albeit, this D80 should kill the XT in performance now(being the newer camera).

[lmelendez]

Just read the preview of the camera in dpreview. IMHO, it looks like a better camera than the 30D. Price, MP, Focus points. In camera wireless flash is something I always liked too, but that was already in the D70.

Not sure about the noise handling, but it would be interesting to see some tests, since the image processor is supposed to be very good.

I wouldn't switch over since I'm very happy with my current gear, but I gotta admit that the D80 looks really really good.

Leo.

[basroil]

d80 actually looks worse than the 30d by it's specs. nikon just added 10mp sensor and 1/3rd ev iso steps (same as 30d), and added a few things the 30d already has as well (larger 230k pixel screen). doesn't look too great for 1k nowadays...

[SuzyView]

Very good price, I'd be tempted to go that way if I was comparing features and price. The in camera editing is actually very useful to those who don't want to do more than eliminate red eye. But layering in camera is quite interesting since the LCD is only 2.5 inches. I'd like to see it in action. Now Canon must respond and get something good out, but not rushed. I'm watching. That battery life is amazing!

[marctwo]

I think it looks pretty good. Not sure about the in-camera effects thing but auto ISO would be very useful. Come on Canon, where's that firmware upgrade for my 30D?

[Steve Parr]

That's true. Point taken on the con for the SD card in terms of longetivity.

Are SD cards going away?

[muscleflex]

just seen this...but why are you all discussing nikon? this is a canon only forum...and unless you guys are thinking of moving to nikon...(which i will never understand!)..then canon all the way folks! :P

and no way are SD cards going away...

[DDA]

Although it's a Canon only forum, I think that new cameras from the competitors may have an impact on future Canon release.. So, they are always interesting to discuss (at least just a bit ;-) )

[Steve Parr]

all the in-camera crap is probably to entice the p&s owners...hopefully when they discover more they will realise thats what photoshop is for!

Doesn't the Canon 20D have some of this "in camera" stuff? I know I can shoot monochrome, give it different hues, etc. Boy, my camera must suck, since it was made only to entice P&S owners.

The Nikon looks good...

[Steve Parr]

just seen this...but why are you all discussing nikon? this is a canon only forum...and unless you guys are thinking of moving to nikon...(which i will never understand!)..then canon all the way folks! :P

and no way are SD cards going away...

You should look at the Sony Alpha thread. This one here is downright civil.

In large part, you'll see die-hard Canon fans who have nothing but blanket dismissal of anything that doesn't say "Canon" on it. It's kinda' funny...

[Wilt]

You should look at the Sony Alpha thread. This one here is downright civil.

In large part, you'll see die-hard Canon fans who have nothing but blanket dismissal of anything that doesn't say "Canon" on it. It's kinda' funny...

It's kinda pathetic, actually. Canon finally surpassed Nikon after DECADES of being number two. One day, another brand will surpass Canon and the brand name loyalists will be forced to eat crow.

You buy the brand and model that meets your feature needs...and for me that means four brands of cameras.

[jj1987]

SD cards? Make fun of nikon party at my house, someone bring the beer!

[picturecrazy]

The D50 and D80 is more of a consumer and entry-level SLR.
Nikon is packing a zillion features into the D80 and selling it for a low price (even if it means minimal profit) to attract the first time SLR buyer. They're investing in the future. I'm sure many of you here bought/inherited/was given a canon as your first SLR, and have stuck with it since just because that's the brand you chose and the accessories you have. Same with Nikon users. All Nikon is trying to do is attract that first time buyer in order to gain a lifetime commitment. Because really, not THAT many people jump ship.

And they probably use SD because most point n shoot cams use SD. That can be up to an additional $100 savings. These factors are usually important for first time SLR buyers.

[Coco-Puffs]

whats the advantage of SD cards over CFs?

[Andy_T]

just seen this...but why are you all discussing nikon? this is a canon only forum...and unless you guys are thinking of moving to nikon...(which i will never understand!)..then canon all the way folks! :P


Well, also those who are not considering a change will certainly be delighted to hear that NOINK finally has some interesting competition product on the market.

Now Canon won't get away with another 'upgrade' like the 30D, they will rather have to offer something substantial next...

Best regards,
Andy

[Andy_T]

whats the advantage of SD cards over CFs?

They are smaller and user less space in the camera.

Best regards,
Andy

[picturecrazy]

Wow, just noticed the 1/200 max sync speed. That's a downgrade from the D70 1/500 I was so jealous of. And 1/4000 instead of 1/8000? That's also a downgrade. I actually go over 1/4000 a lot taking sky and cloud shots.

[davidfig]

Great camera. Definitely a good upgrade from the D70 as it's pretty much a downgraded D200 (actually the AF system is refined).

*touche*

I would disagree. This is a disappointing release to me. The D70 had several advantages over Canon (sort of). 1) 1/500 flash sync, 2) ability to disable pre-flash, 3) exposure compensation of 5 stops (I think I remember this right). The D80 has a flash sync of 1/200 and a SD card. This is a show stopper for me. 2GB is max SD size.

Nikon has release a camera that is only 2mp better then my year old XT. Sorry but I am not impressed. I'm not saying its a bad camera, I'm saying Nikon is piddling away some technical advantages which they are known for.

One more thing, noise will be disappointing. my 2cents

[tbrasington]

For people wised up on specs it maybe not that impressive but first time buyer is going to love it. 10.2mp, it takes the same cards as his or her p&s, they recognise the brand Nikon. Could work out nicely for Nikon getting lifetime buyers as mentioned earlier.

[Andy_T]

2GB is max SD size.

Actually, Sandisk (and others) already have a 4 GB SD-HC card (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1982)-SDSDBR-4096-SanDisk_Standard_SDHC_Card_4GB.aspx)
(D80 can use SD-HC (http://www.sandisk.com/sdhc/SDHC.pdf) cards that are designed to allow up to 32 GB capacity).

Best regards,
Andy

[chris clements]

Interesting timing* ; why didn't Noink hold off a month 'till Photokina, as is traditional? Do they have info on rivals' releases ( = Canon??) that would've stolen their thunder?

* the Alpha 100 launch now makes sense- to keep the customer (lens) base, Sony had to show continuity with KM ASAP.

[condyk]

I believe that I personally would be able to take some very good pictures with it. I believe I could do the same with Pentax, Olympus and Sony DSLR's.

[Andy_T]

Haha,

I would be happy if I could do that with my Canon...

Best regards,
Andy

[Doctor Diesel]

after ruminating for a while, It seems to me that there are loads of features in the D80 that are aimed at winning over the advanced p&s and bridge camera brigade...If nikon do this and the punters invest in a lens or two, the owner gets 'Tied-in' to the nikon system and they can hopefully keep them for life

I think it might be like the D50...now under £400 with kit lens....a "LOSS LEADER" product

[arg245]

For people wised up on specs it maybe not that impressive but first time buyer is going to love it. 10.2mp, it takes the same cards as his or her p&s, they recognise the brand Nikon. Could work out nicely for Nikon getting lifetime buyers as mentioned earlier.

Yep, definitely agree there. I think this is an excellent marketing coup by Nikon for upgraders that have P&S's. Also, did you notice the size? A bit smaller and lighter than the D70s. I think what we have here is direct XT competitor. Nikon is simply getting a jump on Canon when the XT replacement this fall.

I really hope Canon comes up with some inovative features for it's next lineup, and I don't mean things like in camera tweaks. Let's hope for some serious improvements like auto ISO, intervalometer, etc. Even better noise performance, that would really place them at the top for a good long time.

Regards,

[Digitalwave]

Is the D80 going to take the place of the D70s in the Nikon lineup?

[grego]

whats the advantage of SD cards over CFs?

Usually cheaper in price. But the big disadvantage, is most camera makers in the higher end cameras(If you upgrade) don't have the SD capability. So you are stuck with memory you have to sell if you trade up. The logical trade up would be the D200, and it doesn't have the SD slot.

[grego]

Is the D80 going to take the place of the D70s in the Nikon lineup?

Somewhat of a mix of the D100/200 series and the D50. It's slated at 1k(body only), which should drop soon.

[grego]

Just read the preview of the camera in dpreview. IMHO, it looks like a better camera than the 30D. Price, MP, Focus points. In camera wireless flash is something I always liked too, but that was already in the D70.

Not sure about the noise handling, but it would be interesting to see some tests, since the image processor is supposed to be very good.

I wouldn't switch over since I'm very happy with my current gear, but I gotta admit that the D80 looks really really good.

Leo.

Dude, there's no real difference between 8.2mp's and 10. Hell, the 1D can still take great photos at 4mp's and outdo the 10D/300D's/D100 6 megapixels. Price? The D200 is the rival with the 30D. Look at the specs, they are more on task with each other. The 30D is a much better action/sports camera than the D80. The D80 is supposed to be that entry level XT. Remember the XT started out at 1K as well.

Noise, shouldn't change. Nikon is still using the same chips. You should get sharper out of the camera images, but you scarifice noise ability.

[grego]

I believe that I personally would be able to take some very good pictures with it. I believe I could do the same with Pentax, Olympus and Sony DSLR's.

Exactly. In the end, its the photographer. Then good glass.

[cjm]

Canon should offer more of this: spot metering to all their cameras, 11 focusing points. They at least pack full of features for a lower end model.Canon should of but people were whining so much about "When is the replacement for the 20D coming out!?!" that Canon basically released the 20D MKII aka 30D to shut us up. So now because of this we'll have to wait even longer for a true upgrade instead of probably this new years. :(

[Tom W]

Canon should of but people were whining so much about "When is the replacement for the 20D coming out!?!" that Canon basically released the 20D MKII aka 30D to shut us up. So now because of this we'll have to wait even longer for a true upgrade instead of probably this new years. :(

Actually, I think that's more likely that Canon introduced the 30D because the next technology wasn't quite ready yet. The market demands "new" whether it is a big new or a little one. Canon couldn't sit and watch the competition introduce new bodies without sweetening the pot on their own model, but they also couldn't bring a new sensor out that wasn't superior to the old one. So they tweaked a winning design, but kept the good sensor.

[Chris1le]

Usually cheaper in price. But the big disadvantage, is most camera makers in the higher end cameras(If you upgrade) don't have the SD capability. So you are stuck with memory you have to sell if you trade up. The logical trade up would be the D200, and it doesn't have the SD slot.

Canon 1D MkII has an SD slot. Last I heard is that is considered a "higher end" camera. Just sayin' ;)

[grego]

Canon 1D MkII has an SD slot. Last I heard is that is considered a "higher end" camera. Just sayin' ;)

I know, I was refering to the Nikon side. But even then, Canon's side is limited with respect to SD cards. That's why it can be a con, especially if you move up.

[Tom W]

Canon 1D MkII has an SD slot. Last I heard is that is considered a "higher end" camera. Just sayin' ;)

And a CF slot. Multilingual. :)

[Steve Parr]

So they tweaked a winning design, but kept the good sensor.

And, for their efforts, they got a lot of Canon faithful shrugging their shoulders...

[Tom W]

And, for their efforts, they got a lot of Canon faithful shrugging their shoulders...

I shrugged mine along with many. But I still managed to get hold of a 30D. :)

[Steve Parr]

I shrugged mine along with many. But I still managed to get hold of a 30D. :)

I shrugged mine, and my 20D is doin' just fine.

Had I still been shooting with the 300D, I probably would've gone with the 30D, but it was being touted as a logical upgrade from the 20D, and it just isn't...

[grego]

And, for their efforts, they got a lot of Canon faithful shrugging their shoulders...

because a lot of people just look at megapixels.

But Canon does cheap out on the features end compared to Nikon. That's one thing I like about Nikon. They stick a lot of features even in their low end bodies.

[Steve Parr]

because a lot of people just look at megapixels.

But Canon does cheap out on the features end compared to Nikon. That's one thing I like about Nikon. They stick a lot of features even in their low end bodies.

I looked at a lot more than megapixels.

For the "improvements", I didn't see it being worth the extra expense...

[grego]

I looked at a lot more than megapixels.

For the "improvements", I didn't see it being worth the extra expense...

I said a lot Steve, not everyone. If Canon put 10MP's in that camera, a lot of others would say it is an improvement, which it wouldn't be.

To me, 1/3 ISO and spot metering and faster buffer are very valuable. But I shoot sports and a lot of PJ stuff, so for me, the 30D is significantly better than the 20D. But it isn't for everyone. like anything, its always how valuable the features are to the particular user which gets a lost from time to time in recomendations for users.

[chris clements]

Canon 1D MkII has an SD slot.
Supposedly included on the request of Law Enforcement agencies:- the SD's anti-tamper technology makes pix less prone to be challenged in court.

[BryanP]

I would disagree. This is a disappointing release to me. The D70 had several advantages over Canon (sort of). 1) 1/500 flash sync, 2) ability to disable pre-flash, 3) exposure compensation of 5 stops (I think I remember this right). The D80 has a flash sync of 1/200 and a SD card. This is a show stopper for me. 2GB is max SD size.

Nikon has release a camera that is only 2mp better then my year old XT. Sorry but I am not impressed. I'm not saying its a bad camera, I'm saying Nikon is piddling away some technical advantages which they are known for.

One more thing, noise will be disappointing. my 2cents

I completely respect your views towards this camera, but let me address some issues from the way I see it:

Noise is already a given disappointment, nothing new there.

Yes you do lose those features on a D80 from the D70, but theres some things I guess that need to be sacrificed in order to incorporate the more "important" (relatively speaking for upgrading P+S shooters) features such as a much more advanced AF system than what the D70 had. Not to mention all the "trash" features that a usual consumer would probably like. Either way, its still good marketing. It's kind like the incorporation of Picture Style into the Canons now being released.

Now about the issue regarding flash sync. How about the D200, the D2x, or even the the 1Ds Mark II or 1D Mark II? Can you tell me the flash sync on those please? I know it's a bummer to lose that speed, but I don't see the 1D mark II being a failure when they decided to slow down the sync speed opposed to the 1D classic (even though the D80 has a sync actually 1/50th slower, exactly the same as a rebel XT).

As far as megapixels is concerned, it definitely has more than D70 or D50 has, so I don't get what the problem is. I'd still take the AFing of this camera over any Rebel XT than worrying about the lack of MP advantage it has over the Rebel. It's funny how megapixels is brought up now as a factor, when people rant all day about how megapixels nowadays is no long a priority in cameras, and that high ISO noise handling is the way to go. I can almost safely say that if they kept it as a 6MP camera, people would be wondering how its "an upgrade" to the D70, and if it were brought up to an 8MP camera, people would probably complain about how miniscule of an upgrade that is compared to 6MP. It's pretty much a lose-lose situation in terms of the logic that seems to be employed.

It is also somewhat implied in this thread that the 1/4000 max shutter of this camera is "disappointing". We have to realize that it may not be an important factor for entry level cameras. I'm sure the Canon team also thought the same when they incorporated that maximum shutter in their Rebel XT. However, regardless of that limitation, theres still TONS of 350D owners in this forum who are perfectly happy with their cameras. I guess if you're just an upgrading P+S user, or someone just wanting to get a good first DSLR, and know that 1/4000 is just really "not fast enough" for you (which I can probably say is most likely not the case), then don't get the camera then.

Now, regarding SD cards, again from the perspective of an upgrading P+S user, I don't see how this poses a problem. As said above, a lot of P+S nowadays use SD cards. It's more of a question regarding why they should even get a CF platform camera (to upgrade to) if they already have a leftover SD(s). 2GB limit to an average user is probably "a lot" anyways. I would assume its safe to say that this camera is not targeted towards the user who shoots RAW+JPEG all day long.

However, I think the main problem here is that people are kinda asking for too much from a camera that is still entry-level based. I would say that the improved AF system is far more important to the average user than things like "flash sync." It's also even better when it comes to marketing to an entry-level user than saying "HEY GUYS, LOOK AT THIS SYNC SPEED." You also get a bonus of a 2.5" LCD instead of the puny 1.8" that the D70 had. This is similar to the bonus of the 30D over the 20D.

If you want something that doesn't seem so "elementary" to a more advanced user, then thats what D200 is for. If you'd rather settle with a 1/500 sync and a significantly slower AF system, then by all means get the D70.

[picturecrazy]

BryanP, yes most of what you say is true.
This *IS* an entry level camera after all.
But the current D70 owners I know all see the D80 as a DOWNGRADE because of some of those reasons you mention. To a new user, they probably don't care, but to someone who wants to 'upgrade' is a different story.

I know the 30D was a very minor upgrade from the 20D, but how would us 20D owners feel if the 30D changed to SD from CF, lowered our x-sync speed and lowered our faster shutter speed? I would feel it's a downgrade too.

As for the battery life expectancy... I don't expect it will be anywhere close to 2700 shots per charge. Remember the D200 battery fiasco? Their 'test conditions' were the same as the D200 test conditions. (For those who don't know, Nikon stated D200 to get 1800 shots per charge. Most were lucky to reach 400, some even as low as 180 per charge)

[BryanP]

BryanP, yes most of what you say is true.
This *IS* an entry level camera after all.
But the current D70 owners I know all see the D80 as a DOWNGRADE because of some of those reasons you mention. To a new user, they probably don't care, but to someone who wants to 'upgrade' is a different story.

I know the 30D was a very minor upgrade from the 20D, but how would us 20D owners feel if the 30D changed to SD from CF, lowered our x-sync speed and lowered our faster shutter speed? I would feel it's a downgrade too.

As for the battery life expectancy... I don't expect it will be anywhere close to 2700 shots per charge. Remember the D200 battery fiasco? Their 'test conditions' were the same as the D200 test conditions. (For those who don't know, Nikon stated D200 to get 1800 shots per charge. Most were lucky to reach 400, some even as low as 180 per charge)

I definitely agree with you there.

In my post above, I tried to somewhat justify why the the D80 does appear to be a good camera for it's target group.

I do somewhat retract my reasoning about it being "an upgrade" to the D70 though based on what you said and some of the responses above addressed.

Technically speaking, a major component in the camera has definitely been "upgraded." The MultiCAM1000 employed into the D200 and refined and used in the D80 (if anything like the D200's AF system) is undoubtedly /much/ better than whatever the D70/D70s has. The D70 IMO (being an owner sometime last year for quite a period of time) has a slow AF system with a mere 5 points of versatility. Jumping from that to a significantly faster system with 11 points is pretty much a night and day difference.

Now for the other downgraded features, it does start to somewhat scratch areas that probably had practical use. We do recall in the 1D that they did also lower the flash sync (and pretty much have that standard with the other cameras now) on the Mark II as well as halve the shutter speed from 1/16000 to 1/8000. However, what's been done on the D80 from the D70 does affect some practical use. 1/16000 IMO has very little use in practical photography so going from that to 1/8000 isn't really considered "bad." Someone already stated that they do sometimes shoot over 1/4000, so I see where the "downgrade" does factor in.

Now, if one owned a D70, the SD change would definitely be disappointing, giving more of an incentive to buy a D200 instead. Maybe this was Nikon's plan after all, who knows?

However, I agree with pretty much what you said.

[CoolToolGuy]

I don't see the change to SD cards as a downgrade - I think we will all be there in a couple years due to size and performance.

The one thing that I noticed on the D80 specs is that the FPS spec is 3 FPS for 100 images, but it specifies for a "medium" sized image. I think I remember Ni*on doing this before, but it is a bit of a underhanded attempt to make the specs look good.

Have Fun,

[BryanP]

I don't see the change to SD cards as a downgrade - I think we will all be there in a couple years due to size and performance.

The one thing that I noticed on the D80 specs is that the FPS spec is 3 FPS for 100 images, but it specifies for a "medium" sized image. I think I remember Ni*on doing this before, but it is a bit of a underhanded attempt to make the specs look good.

Have Fun,

Of course it is. You wouldn't specify how it only shoots 23 consecutive shots at 3fps at large fine JPEG if you're trying to advertise this camera to its target crowd.

It's all marketing.

It's just like how Canon advertises the Mark II on being the fastest camera in the world with its 8.5fps shooting rate, but who in the hell goes off firing machine gun all day long.

[OceanView]

Nothing to get too excited about.

[BryanP]

Nothing to get too excited about.

Of course not with that camera you have :)

I'd be happy to "downgrade" my shutterspeed and flash sync to get your mark II n. I'll take 2 as well. :lol:

[grego]

I definitely agree with you there.

In my post above, I tried to somewhat justify why the the D80 does appear to be a good camera for it's target group.

I do somewhat retract my reasoning about it being "an upgrade" to the D70 though based on what you said and some of the responses above addressed.

Technically speaking, a major component in the camera has definitely been "upgraded." The MultiCAM1000 employed into the D200 and refined and used in the D80 (if anything like the D200's AF system) is undoubtedly /much/ better than whatever the D70/D70s has. The D70 IMO (being an owner sometime last year for quite a period of time) has a slow AF system with a mere 5 points of versatility. Jumping from that to a significantly faster system with 11 points is pretty much a night and day difference.

Now for the other downgraded features, it does start to somewhat scratch areas that probably had practical use. We do recall in the 1D that they did also lower the flash sync (and pretty much have that standard with the other cameras now) on the Mark II as well as halve the shutter speed from 1/16000 to 1/8000. However, what's been done on the D80 from the D70 does affect some practical use. 1/16000 IMO has very little use in practical photography so going from that to 1/8000 isn't really considered "bad." Someone already stated that they do sometimes shoot over 1/4000, so I see where the "downgrade" does factor in.

Now, if one owned a D70, the SD change would definitely be disappointing, giving more of an incentive to buy a D200 instead. Maybe this was Nikon's plan after all, who knows?

However, I agree with pretty much what you said.

As time goes by, the D80, just like the XT will drop from it's 1k(body only price). The d70's remake is still in the works i would think, or maybe they will destroy that in favor of the D80, D200, D2h, D2x series.

Keep in mind the 1D wasn't made for the average user though, so those things defintely are on different levels. If you are doing sports, the higher shutter you can get, the better.

The biggest problem about the SD, is they didn't add it in on all their newest generation. So it doesn't really seem like a good transition. It's hard to see the plan of the D80 as pushing people to the D200. The D50 also had SD, which is disappointing. So it seems they are just keeping it at that level. Maybe the system is cheaper than the CF, and that's how they dumb it down. Who knows.


This is an upgrade for the entry line in Nikon. But then all the other bodies are beginning to be upgraded too. 5 FPS is becoming the standard speed these days for the midlevel for instance. 3 is becoming entry and of course anything higher gets the higher speeds.

As for the 8.5 fps, its useful to the photographer who does action. There's always a use for just about any feature. Might not fit the majority but there always at least is(at least it should-although the 30D with the print button is one of those questionable ones).

[BryanP]

As for the 8.5 fps, its useful to the photographer who does action. There's always a use for just about any feature. Might not fit the majority but there always at least is(at least it should-although the 30D with the print button is one of those questionable ones).

:lol: Yep. That print button features sure is a doozy.

I do agree with your points grego.

[CoolToolGuy]

:lol: Yep. That print button features sure is a doozy.


I think the print button is a nod to folks that may, for its entire life, have the camera set to "green box" mode. Its unfortunate, but they buy 30Ds too.

Have Fun,