Large format Canon printers - water and smear proof?

[Cordell]

Hello all,

Okay, I've heard a lot about the archival qualities (possibilities) of the Epson 2200, but I'm really not to worried about that. Any print that last 25+ years is a good print to me. My baby pictures are only 35 years old and look only okay.

Anyway, I haven't read anything about Canon inks regarding water and smear resistance. Everyone speaks and writes of longevity and fading. Although there should be some concerns for paid work, but my question is once the prints come off the printer and dries after a couple of minutes, is how is the resistance to water and smearing along with longevity? I guess I am refereing to something like the 9000S. Or can someone point me in the direction of anyother large format for 11x17 prints, in the less than $400.00 USD range?

I prefer Canon because of all the speed I read about and especially the fact that it uses seperate cartridges. I really don't like HP because of the throw-away so much ink thinking they use.

How about the Epson 1280 too? Any recommendations are very much appreciated.

My prints will be primarily for weddings and portraits. Some I may use for the walls of my home.

Thanks

[Belmondo]

cordell wrote:
My baby pictures are only 35 years old and look only okay.

I must be a lot older than you. My baby pictures are painted on the walls of caves.

I think this whole business of archival quality prints is something of a tempest in a teapot. I really haven't been aware that there was widespread dissatisfaction with print durability before someone coined the phrase, and I suspect that just maybe we're being 'had' a little bit by some marketing types. The inability of inkjet prints to handle moisture and/or handling has been and remains an issue.

I have some inkjet prints hanging on my wall that are a few years old; they were printed on an old HP 870cse (I think --- I’ve had several inkjet printers at various times, but that was the one I used most often back then). Anyway, they’re still almost as good as the day I printed them, and are primarily limited by the quality of the printer and the paper I used back then. I don’t think there’s been any wholesale deterioration of quality on these prints due to fading.

I now use the Canon 950i and find that if I let the prints dry overnight, they don't smear. However, they are susceptible to moisture no matter how long they've cured, so handling (as one might expect) is discouraged.

I’m planning on investigating the dye-sub printers; I see much to like with them.

To me, the beauty of digital imaging is that the file will never deteriorate. Favorite pictures can be reproduced over and over. At the first signs of fading, be it in five years or twenty, we only have to dredge up the old file and print it again. By then, who know what medium we’ll be using?

As a general opinion: if you're selling your work, it should be on lab prints, and not ink jet prints anyway. At present, there are practical reasons for saying that, but as inks improve, that might not be the case in the future. I just don't think the technology is there yet, regardless of what the marketing people say. For now, and the foreseeable future, my really important photos get printed at a lab.

Tom.

[robertwgross]

Whether it is Canon or Epson that you get, in either case the situation is the same. The only way to get great life out of an inkjet print is to put it behind glass in a frame, and then to keep it out of sunlight. UV light and air are the two things that make them fade the worst.

Therefore, the whole discussion about waterproofness gets off the point. My old Epson 1270 (forerunner of the 1280) is 3.5 years old now, and works fine. If I understand it correctly, the ink is actually dry by the time it hits the paper. Among the non-photographic stuff that I print are lots of custom topographic maps. I learned early on to avoid plain papers, and I use mostly Epson Premium Glossy, Semiglossy, and Luster. Due to the paper's plastic finish, they are all relatively waterproof to the occasional rainwater drop or snowflake.

---Bob Gross---

[boBquincy]

Waterfastness seems to be more an issue of the paper rather than the ink.

Swellable polymer paper somewhat encapsulates the ink and provides better resistance to fading but is not good at shedding water. This type of paper also remains somewhat soft and almost tacky.

Nanoceramic paper leaves the ink open to fading from gas exposure but does a good job of protecting the image from water. S9000 prints on Office Depot glossy photo paper can be immersed without much of a problem. I also use this type of paper for prints that go in plastic sleeves as it will not stick.

Ilford's website has some good explanations of the different types of paper.


boB

[Cordell]

Thanks for the replies.

I suppose in some sense I should rephrase what I'm thinking about when I purchase. If I wipe or dab a print from a lab because there is a droplet of water, there is no issue. If I do the same with an inkjet print depending on the printer, ink, paper, what is the outcome? I know for a fact that prints from the Epson 2200 (using Epson papers and archival ink) will not smear, smudge, etc.

What Canon printer can do that which is large format?

As for fading, I never bought into the argument that it is an issue anyway. I have a couple of prints that I did a couple of years back that still look good. No glass, no dark room. Just sitting in my basement amongst junk on a table.

Now, how about those recommendations please.

[Longwatcher]

I have the S9000.
My experience.

After drying for 5 minutes, You can touch it and it won't smear, smudge or otherwise distort (except HP paper which takes about 15 minutes to dry) as long as it is not an extremely humid environment. Note with Matte paper, this time appears to be 30 seconds, Satin finish about 2 minutes and glossy takes the 5 minutes.

After drying for 24 hours, you can do almost anything you want except get it wet. If you get it wet, some (but not all colors will run a bit after while. The longer it drys the longer it takes for the colors to run if at all.

After drying for 24 hours and spray coating, You can just about wash it in water (I don't recommend this however for the paper's sake).

Please note that I have used T-shirt transfers with the Canon S9000 Ink set and the T-shirt looks the same as any other professionally printed silk screened T-shirt would, and I have been wearing it once every other week for 4 months now (washed about 10 times)

So the inks must be somewhat moisture and water resistant.

As to fading:
I have S9000 prints sitting in my living room for over 15 months now with no fading, same paper/ink/image taken to work (floresent light) faded very noticeably in less then 6 weeks, which is why I don't use Canon paper unless I spray coat it, which seems to prevent the rapid fading.