Why is the A620 the only camera with the swivel LCD?

[TMR Design]

I own an A620 and can't even imagine having a camera without the tilt/swivel LCD. I can't help by wonder why Canon and other manufacturers have not incorporated this into more cameras. It would seem that if nothing else they would have built it into some of their own DSLR's. It is so useful for great angles and macro shots. It saves your back and knees sometimes and lets you get above the crowd at events and show.

For something that is such a great feature I don't understand why it's not in every camera and it should definitely be in DSLR. Anyone have inside information or an explanation?

[coreypolis]

they have, my g6 has it, nikon has it on some, olympus has some that are height adjustable

it wouldn't be worth the cost or damage factor on a dslr as you are using the viewfinder for almost everything, except quick menu options or chimping

[TMR Design]

Oh wow, I never realized it was in so many other cameras.
I guess what you are saying about the DSLR's makes sense and since an SLR viewfinder sees what the lens sees it makes much more sense.

[saravrose]

My Pro 1 had it and it was my least favorite feature.. I definately would NOT want it on my DSLR..

[coreypolis]

i think its a great feature on P&S, if nothing more than for protection. I did use to it get underneith some flowers and shoot up where I couldn't have gone with my dslr, so there is a time and purpose for everything.

[Jon]

It's also on the A610, in addition to the others named. It has its uses, but it adds a weak link (because of the flexing of the contacts as you fold, tilt, and swivel), so represents another potential point of failure. That said, it almost makes up for not having a TTL viewfinder. Almost - the SLR viewfinder is still preferable most of the time.

[Stefan A]

I guess what you are saying about the DSLR's makes sense and since an SLR viewfinder sees what the lens sees it makes much more sense.


That's true. But the main reason is that none of the canon slr's have live preview. The live preview is the only reason why I love having the swivel out lcd on my S2. I wouldn't care about looking at pictures or the menu on a swivel screen.

Stefan

[Dynamic Aperture]

My Canon S3 IS has it and it is definately one of my favorite features. As you mentioned it helps you get to places your eyes and a SLR cannot. It comes in real handy at events and parades where there are taller people in front of you. I just raise it over my held, swivel the screen toward me, and I use it like a periscope and get the shots I need. :)

[RossW]

I also find it very handy to "see around the corner" when taking pictures in awkward positions. I've never understood why it isn't available on DSLRs. Yes, yes, I know all about the optical path in an SLR camera, but I still don't see why you couldn't bleed some of the image off of the mirror, and direct it to a low-res sensor for previewing purposes on an LCD screen. Beam-splitting, after all, isn't exactly rocket science. It doesn't have to be as high quality as the focusing image, or even the picture review mode.

[Moppie]

Putting live preview into SLR's comes up quite a lot in these forums, and there is always a back lash against it by a lot of SLR owners.
None of it is ever rational, it always sounds like old people defending dead technology.
Like horse and carriage users at the turn of last century, or peoples reaction to turbo charging small capacity engines in cars, or the back lash against digitil by die hard film users.

The technology exists however, and is even production. I think the main stream manufactors are just holding of on doing it because it means a redesign of thier current bodys, which means large R&D expenses, and they are worried about an unfavourable backlash by the average DSLR user.
However, once DSLR's become as popular as old Film SLR's used to be, and used by a much larger less fussy consumer base I think live preview will be very, very common amongst all the manufactors.

Untill then those of us who want the optical performance and speed of a DSLR are just going to have to put with useing old technology to get it.

[Stefan A]

Moppie - I am sure there is some truth to what you are saying - about the older generation resisting change. But I think there might be a few other reasons. The idea of taking a picture while holding a camera at arms length in front of you is a very funny thing to some slr users. It's like a joke amongst the slr owners - another thing to make fun of compact camera users. Some SLR users (of which I am now one) like to think that they are in an exclusive club and that they are part of the "real" photography world. They don't want their cameras to resemble a P&S cameras(which seems to be such a derogatory term around here). And I am not saying that having a live preview on an slr would neccesitate using it. But some would use it like a P&S and I think slr users would feel like their hobby or profession has been brought down.

Of course, I should say that I realize that many slr users don't feel this way. But I have noticed often on this forum slr owners downright insulting users of P&S cameras - as well as the cameras themselves. Now that I own an slr, I can see the ways that it is superior to my S2. But I am certainly not going to put it down. One only has to check out one of our contests to realize it has a whole lot more to do than the camera.

Stefan

[Jon]

Well, generally I prefer to use the viewfinder over the screen even on the A620. It's much easier to hold the camera stable that way. I really only find limited times when I want to use the flip-out screen - unobtrusive candids,overhead (cockpit) shots, self-portraits and dogs in pens, where I'd need to be working around some obstacle. I really couldn't see trying to use a DSLR with the 100-400 held at arms length and trying to frame with the LCD, and with 12 MP, I've got a lot of crop room from the 24-70 for point and pray candids. Really, if my choice is between an external screen that I can pivot and one that won't, I'll take the one that pivots for those odd occasions when it comes in handy. But I really prefer the higher resolution and faster response of a true optical finder.

[johnthebaptist]

I have an S1IS and find myself using the viewfinder most of the time unless I'm in a peculiar position (shooting over a crowd, under something else, low to the ground, etc.) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but with a P&S what you are essentially doing with the screen is viewing a digitally converted image of what the lens is seeing and not actually viewing "through the lens" as in an SLR. My S1IS has the electronic viewfinder where I can actually go through the menu, etc. just like I can with the flip out screen. The S2IS and S3IS are that way as well. I guess in order to incorporate that into an SLR it would actually be seeing what has already been written to the memory?

[RadAL]

most DSLRs are what? 8-10 MP? The A620 is 7.1MP and has its limitations but for the normal static shot (no macro or panning) the A620 is as good as a DSLR, if not better for the screen fact and being lighter.

[Doom1701e]

I think my dads A80 has the swivel too.

[Moppie]

Well my A80 has a swivel, so I your dads does as well :)


Iv gotten very used to the freedom of being able to compose with out having to get my eye lined up with the lens.
Iv also used a DSLR enough times now to know that looking through a viewfinder is a superior way of composing an image.
But Iv also felt very, very restricted by it.
On our last GKPE I borrowed a 20D from a member who couldn't make it, unfortunatly didn't get much of a chance to make much use of it as the weather failed us.
However, there as one shot, on a beach, that I could see being perfect, making good use of the overcast light and choppy water.
But while I could see the shot in my head, I couldn't see the shot through the camera with out laying down in cold damp sand to compose it.
If I had my A80 on me (instead of leaving it in the car) I would have got the shot by simply crouching down and flipping out the LCD.

I had a similar problem trying to shoot portraits of my g/f. Shes a lot taller than i am, so to get the camera to her eye level required me standing on tip toes to see through the view finder.
As the camera was on a tripod, and she was standing in one spot, being able to compose in a flip out LCD would have been much, much easier.

[lakiluno]

While I can see uses for a flip out LCD, I am greatly oposed to introducing live preview viewfinders in DSLRs. I hardly think its becauseI'm too old - I'm 16 and the only SLR I've ever had is a DSLR. The main reason is that current technology in the live preview arena is, to put it bluntly, crap. Using the LCD screen has its uses (a flip out screen has the potential to be very useful), however when shooting shots at long range (300mm+) its tricky to hold the camera away from you, and you resort to using the viewfinder.

and this is when the problem starts. Current LCD screens just aren't quick enough (refreshing) and high enough resolution to make you feel like your really there. Add in the issue of light - what you see through a DSLR is really what you get, and it allows you to be at one with the scene more than an electronic screen, and you realise that live preview for DSLR's, in its current state, isn't really very good.

However, the Zigview series, while expensive, is really an alternative.

http://www.zigview.co.uk/prdzigs2.htm
the new S2 is very compact (There are a lot of times when I wish I had one :D), and it would make itself very useful for crowds and macro.

Leo

[eccles]

I have the swivel screen on my S3, but you need the swivel more often than with other makes because the viewing angle is so poor compared to them. It's also difficult to see clearly in very bright sunlight. The Canon's EVF is so much better. That said, the swivel IS handy for the occasional ground level and overhead shots.