I want to do that! (be a photographer)

[3142photography]

Since I have discoverd digital photography in about 1999 (I think) I have been wanting to get more serious. The more a I shoot the more I want to shoot. So here's the question...where does one go for some hands on help? I'm good but I want to be better but all this stuff about apature and shutter speed is enough to make your head spin when your starting out! I have looked into Henry's school of imaging and some college courses. Anyone know of any good courses? I am in the Kitchener Waterloo area of Ontario. I know most of the tenique comes from experience and it's not the creativitiy I need help with, only the techinical stuff.

Also, I want to get the Canon Rebel XT. I figure this camera is a good start for a digital SLR. I just don't want to outgrow this camera too quickly like the last one (canon Si2, I've had it since May and I am ready to move on, only becuase I want to start a business and you can't show up as a photographer with that camera, it's a great camera but not for a 'pro')

I don't want to spend $1000 (plus lens) and then in 3 months want something better. Are there pros out there using this camera. Are there any limitations to what you can accomplish with it (and the right lens)

Thanks!

[dave13]

At the studio I work at, we just bought 8 XT's for underclass/middle school and elementary school portraits. However, you also need a hot-shoe pc adapter to use a monolight.

I own one myself. I'm not too fond of shooting sports/action with it ( only 3 fps) Other than that I love my XT and plan on keeping it for quite sometime.

[DocFrankenstein]

The XT is a consumer camera. Shooting paid work is possible but you'll want a better body fast.

20D 30D is the minimum which I would consider for doing actual paid assignments where you want to get the shots. 1D is much better yet.

The XT is limited in AF ability, viewfinder and interface.

As far as lenses go... you need the L glass, because it has the features which allow you to shoot fast.

And you're better off getting XT from the states. The price is unreasonably high from henrys.

[liza]

The thing you really need to do is take some business courses. Most successful photographers know how to market themselves and learn all the ins and outs of the business of photography. Many small photography businesses fail due to this very thing.

And if you're going to start a business, you need to invest in appropriate professional equipment. Just purchasing a consumer DSLR isn't going to cut it. You need lenses (plural), lighting, tripods, computers, software, hard drives, etc, etc. It's an expensive proposition that you should fully research to better ensure success.

[BThunderW]

I'm also in KW Area. I've recently seriously jumped into photography. Been lurking around this message board a little.

There is a photography club here in Waterloo, I've been thinking of joining. I think it's a great way to meet people and learn new techniques.

http://www.waterloocameraclub.ca/

I'm still at the stage where I'm not sure what it is I want to shoot. I don't want to go in "all directions" because that could prove costly.

Cheers,

Tom

[ssim]

There is a huge difference in enjoying photography and actually making a career out of it. Make sure that this is a career path that you truly want. Photographing the same thing over and over can make it lose its appeal. Do you know what type of shooting you want to do. What is it that you enjoy doing now.

Liza is correct in her advice to you. I've seen so many businesses fail (not only photography ones) because the person did not have much of a business accumen. Being good at your trade is one thing, but you have to know how to manage that business so that it stays in business. The business does not just fall into your lap you have to have the type of personality that you can go out and knock on doors and sell yourself and your service.

You are starting out correctly trying to get yourself up to speed on the technical side by taking some courses. I don't want to sound harsh but if you have been doing this since 1999 the concept of aperature and shutter speed should not be making your head spin some 6 or 7 years later.

The rebel XT is a fine camera. Is it a camera that you want to use for daily commercial use. Probably not, in my opinion. As already pointed out you are going to need a wide selection of other gear, and probably most importantly another body. If you are doing this commercially you need to have a backup body. I've got around 100K invested in photo equipment, computers and accessories and I only feel now that I am in a position to do this properly.

Good luck in whichever direction you choose to go.

[3142photography]

I think I should have clarified...I am not expecting to do this as a full time career for at least 10 years. Basically I want to take a hobby and turn it into some cash on the side (for now)
I am talking a few weddings, engagements, portraits the regular stuff for now... That's why I thought the Rebel XT would be a good place to start. Does that change your opinion/advice?

ssim: Yeah, I've been stuck on 'auto' modes for many years now and finally moving up in the world.

[DocFrankenstein]

Let's welcome photographer #3142 to the club official club of "rebel wedding shooters".

Good business to you. It's gonna be fun.

And the technical stuff isn't that important. It's the vision and creativity that matters.

[MikeMcL]

3142, dont be put off by the people that are making millions per month in this hobby/profession. They will always tell you that you can't sell pictures unless you have a $3500.00 body, $10,000.00 worth of glass, and a full studio to work from.
I think that for your situation, the rebel XT would be a good camera. you didnt mention taking shots of race photo finishes, or professional sports photographt, where the frames per second will matter much, and iso is easy to sacrifice.
The rebel XT is a capable camera, when combined with a bit of imagination and skill. You need to read and experiment ALOT.
Spend a bit now, and do a little "work on the side" and see if you like it. don't quit your day job, or whatever. call a pro wedding photographer in your area and offer a free day of work being an assistant. you might get lucky. (you wont be taking a camera, just helping setup, corral people and breakdown, mostly menial type tasks) If you see what being a photographer is about, you may or may not decide to continue.
I have produced many stunning shots, and made a bit of money on the side with my meager gear. i do it as a hobby, and make a few dollars. i dont want to do it as a job, nor do i rely on the cash. I like the practice and the recognition i get from it. In a couple years when i get back to the states, i might do a bit of "2nd camera" wedding stuff, depending on my location... but we all take what we want to from this.

Get the XT, take 10,000 or so shots to get a hold on lighting, aperature and iso, etc... you have some practice to get out of the way before you can just open up shop and be a millionaire like all the pros here.

Will the XT shoot a Portrait fantastically? yes
Will the XT shoot a Flower well? yes
Will the XT shoot a Sunset? yes
Will the XT shoot a Wedding? yes
Will the XT shoot a Bug? yes
Will the XT shoot a Bird? yes

You already seem to know the value of glass, and that the XT is not the cadillac of cameras, so i need not emphasize that but it is a good camera that can do a great job... if you have an unlimited budget, then just go ahead and spend $100k on gear like ssim did, and you'll magically become an awesome photographer...seriously...no, really...

enjoy learning, i know i do.

[cassarilda]

I personally think, that for learning the basics of photography, such as aperture and shutter speed, exposure, composition, lighting etc etc, then the camera youve suggested sounds fine...

Keep an ear out though for any news from Canon... They are constantly bringing out new cameras, so in 3months it might not be the best for your money... alternatively, try looking for pros selling their cameras due to upgrades... If youre in Australia I can recommend a site.

[liza]

I think I should have clarified...I am not expecting to do this as a full time career for at least 10 years. Basically I want to take a hobby and turn it into some cash on the side (for now)
I am talking a few weddings, engagements, portraits the regular stuff for now... That's why I thought the Rebel XT would be a good place to start. Does that change your opinion/advice?

ssim: Yeah, I've been stuck on 'auto' modes for many years now and finally moving up in the world.

No, it doesn't change my opinion. You should still consider upgrading your gear to include two camera bodies and flash units, a flash bracket, a good tripod, a wide angle f/2.8 zoom, a telephoto f/2.8 zoom, and a 50mm f/1.4 prime. If you're going to accept payment for shooting someone's wedding as a professional, then you need to be equipped to do the job accordingly. That's all Sheldon is trying to say, and that's all I'm trying to say. I realize there are a lot of sensitive XT users out there, but this isn't about slamming a particular camera. This is about being a professional and conducting business accordingly. Also keep in mind that when you start doing this for money, it isn't that much fun anymore because of the obligation. I rarely shoot for fun these days.

[Wilt]

No, it doesn't change my opinion. You should still consider upgrading your gear to include two camera bodies and flash units, a flash bracket, a good tripod, a wide angle f/2.8 zoom, a telephoto f/2.8 zoom, and a 50mm f/1.4 prime. If you're going to accept payment for shooting someone's wedding as a professional, then you need to be equipped to do the job accordingly. That's all Sheldon is trying to say, and that's all I'm trying to say. I realize there are a lot of sensitive XT users out there, but this isn't about slamming a particular camera. This is about being a professional and conducting business accordingly. Also keep in mind that when you start doing this for money, it isn't that much fun anymore because of the obligation. I rarely shoot for fun these days.

Hear! hear!

3142, dont be put off by the people that are making millions per month in this hobby/profession.

Note Mike's location...I think he meant to write "3142, dont be put off by the people that are making millions of YEN per year in this hobby/profession." I don't think photographers are even making tens of thousands of dollars per month, unless the CD's they are sending out are high grade narotics disguised to look like polycarbonate!

[DocFrankenstein]

Let me ask a cynical question to the repliers:
Do you think the "advice" will change anything?

[PixelChick78]

I am in the same boat. I want to make some money and get a good starter camera. I looked at the rebel and it seems like good value and a good place to start. I don't think it would be wise to get a $4000 camera to start. I wouldn't know how to make the most of it's features.

[monter]

Let me ask a cynical question to the repliers:
Do you think the "advice" will change anything?

I think thats the wrong attitude to have. We all ask for advice for a reason. Whether it be to solidify our position or whether we are up for some mind changing. I don't think it's right for you to discount the question becuase you don't think the OP will take any of the advice given. And if you really felt that way... why did you respond in the first place???


to the OP. I think you should read read read. go to your library and get (or go buy) books on lighting, exposure, etc. I learned more from reading material from the pros than I did in my photography classes. (and no I'm not a pro...yet) I did choose to get the 30D, but that was a personal choice. I decided to get the best camera I could afford at the time. When I get more into it, I'll get a second body and another flash and more lenses, but for now.. it does me just fine. good luck!

[liza]

I think once the OP has a better grasp of photography as a whole, he should also work as a second shooter for a professional photographer to learn what it's all about, including the business aspect of photography.

[DocFrankenstein]

And if you really felt that way... why did you respond in the first place???
Cause I'm a beleiver. ;)

[MikeMcL]

The Op said nothing about wedding photography.. are we to believe that wedding photographer is a synonym for pro photographer... i would say that 99% of the images i see everyday are the result of photography other than wedding.

That said, he also didn't say this wasnt his goal, so we'll leave it at that. maybe his wife is a clown, and they want to do kids' birthday parties together... or maybe his neighbor is a santa at the mall, and he wants to make $10,000.00 one month per year shooting kids on santa's lap.

No, the xt and kit lens are not a good pro wedding kit, but he did say that he wants to learn the basics, and have a camera that wont get laughed at when he finally does show up for work.

My comment about the "millions of dollars per month" was a fun jab at all the elitist pros that, instead of giving advice, say "blah blah blah, i am sooo awesome, and i have tons of gear, and you cant make money until you have the same kit as me"

I think that we should encourage a beginner, and actually read the OP to see what the person needs help with. Hopefully, then you can tailor your "perfect setup" advice to the situation as much as possible.

a guy mentions a $1000.00 budget to learn the basics, and immediately he is bombarded with pros telling him that he needs 2 bodies, 2 flashes, a full kit (including all the big 10 lenses).

Let's take time to remember the first 3 items we bought and actually help this person, not just blow him away with "big kit" suggestions.

an XT is perfect for this guy. If he said $4,000.00 then the XT may not be the camera for him, but... i read the OP.

BTW i am not one of the sensitive XT users that was suggested above. just trying to be helpful. :-}

[liza]

I think I should have clarified...I am not expecting to do this as a full time career for at least 10 years. Basically I want to take a hobby and turn it into some cash on the side (for now)
I am talking a few weddings, engagements, portraits the regular stuff for now... That's why I thought the Rebel XT would be a good place to start. Does that change your opinion/advice?


This is where he mentioned weddings, thus the advice to upgrade equipment.

[monter]

Cause I'm a beleiver. ;)

LOL well good to know! :)

[PixelChick78]

pssstt...3142 is a woman.

[Jon, The Elder]

Doc F. - you are not just a 'voice-in-the-widerness', I'm with ya' all the way and have the scars to prove it.

[verT]

if you have a grand to spend get a rebel XT. there will be a time when you outgrow it but when depends on you. I went from a G3 to an XT and it was a great move for me.

Infact I was approached this past wednesday while shooting my neice playing a soccer game at night I had my 70-200 Sigma on and a few parents were asking me what paper the photos would be in, I had to laugh and just said they are only of my neice :). A camera is a camera sure some have some really cool features but in the end does it take a picture? They all do and yes you need to work in the limitations of those cameras and when you learn to work in those limitations when you finally upgrade you'll get even better photos. I would get a cheaper body and spend more on lenses down the road if I were in your shoes.

So in my humble XT user (who knows there are much better camera bodies out there and sure I'd like to have one or two of them) opinion get what you want if it's what is in your budget now then buy it if it isn't save but if you wait you'll always be waiting because there will always be something better just around the corner and you'll also miss out on a lot of fun because a DSLR is that much more fun than a P&S.

[hufffoto]

3142Photo.

I'm coming to this thread a bit late, but here's my $.02.

Shoot. Shoot. Shoot! If you ultimately want to go digital, then the XT isn't a bad start. No, it's not a 'pro' rig, but I know that wasn't your original question. It fits your budget, and from an education standpoint- you can learn the process and it will lend itself almost seamlessly to finding your way around a larger rig down the line. I agree with the others that have commented- read books, take a class (but do some research first), shoot like mad, experiment, join a group of like minded shooters, utilize forums such as this, and shoot some more.

Personally, I have learned a lot (and more important, continue to learn) by viewing other photog's work. I have several sites bookmarked of photographers that I am very impressed with, and I view them often to see their progression. One thing I have found is the diverse avenues all of them have taken to get to the professional level that they are- and mind you this is a very small cross section of the entire industry.

Now, having said that I must make one last point. Although everyone, including myself, must start somewhere- I feel there is a grave danger in taking any paying job too lightly. Too often I hear people new to photography say "I'm just going to shoot this wedding to see what it's all about". Whether it's a wedding, portrait, sports, whatever- if you are getting paid you must act and perform accordingly. Whether you plan on making it a career or not, your reputation depends on it. Lessons are a bitch (I have found out the hard way) when you are new to the game and a client is counting on you. No job is a small job. Now, the big pros will scoff at this, and my intention is not to put every job on a level field, as they certainly are not, but every job must be taken seriously. Photography is an interesting profession as there is not a required degree or 'certificate'. This is one of the industries greatest advantages, but also one of it's greatest pitfalls.

So, have fun. Learn. Shoot. Learn. Shoot. Repeat as needed:)

[XTlent]

Here you go. Don't say I haven't contributed anything on this forum:)!

www.photoworkshop.com/canon

I am a poor, sensitive, XT user and have read through these tutorials several times and plan to read them a hundred or so more times as well as the owners manual and whatever else I can get my hands on. I am far, far from a pro but have gotten a couple paying side gigs with this stuff just cause people know I have a camera. In eight months I've taken @5000 pics (not even half of which I would show to somebody) and I'm getting better at it. The "auto" side of the dial has not been used since about pic #200; AV, TV,P, A-DEP get the most use now (in that order). Still nothing but the kit lenses for now just waiting for 25k to fall in my lap lol or to save up for one or two at a time. In my sights for near future are the 50mm f1.4 and the 70-200 F2.8 IS since I don't have to rob a bank to afford. After that, if more time shooting turns into more money, then another body etc...does anyone else feel like their in quicksand when talking about this "hobby"?

[lakiluno]

As someone who has been observing on these boards for almost a year, and reading almost everything, I feel I have some sort of understanding of photography, and the equipment required to do things.

The XT/350D is a great camera. Although I would of bought a 20/30D if I could afford it, I have a 350D because that was all I could afford. I have taken thousands of pictures with my camera, but I've never sold any.

I see a lot of people coming on here with an XT, or perhaps even a 30D, but often they have a great body, but lack in everything else. From what I know of wedding photography, the XT would be great. The main thing that would make me want to use a better body would be the 2.8 AF sensor in the 30D+, which would help with hunting in low light at weddings. Apart from that, the XT would make a good wedding body (as far as I know). However, shooting a wedding, from what I've read, is about much more than just the body. Because its such an important time, you need 2 bodies - not just for the ease of use (50 1.4 on one, 24-70 on the other...) but also because if one fails, you need to be able to continue taking photos.

To go with the 2 bodies, you need two fast lenses - mostly for DOF control, but also because you might come across a church where you can't shoot with flash, which would require fast lenses. As well as that, an external flash unit for each body is necessary, as the popup flash just isn't sufficient. A flash bracket puts the flash above the lens in portrait mode to stop such bad shadows. You need loads of memory, and the knowledge of shooting in RAW and post processing to be able to get a good result even if you accidentally turn the flash to manual, or leave the camera on ISO 1600. You need to completely understand DOF, aperture, and how you can take photos that are pleasing. To add to all that, you need to have a good sense of portraits - how to take good ones, how to get people to smile, and of course you need to have a good business sense.

People aren't saying you need $100k of photography gear. What they are saying is that its not something you do lightly. You can't pick up an XT and the kit lens and say "I'm a photographer" - there was a thread on here a while ago about someone getting married who bought an XT and gave it to their friend to take the photos. Although the results weren't terrible, you could see that it was taken by an amateur. Being a professional wedding photographer requires you to be competant, and to be able to fulfil your side of the deal. From what I've read, its very hard work, and even some of the most knowledgable and best photographers on this board can make little money from it.

not to mention the fact that when people who have no clue, (not saying that you necessarily have no clue), or when people with very little money invested think they can take peoples wedding photos, and charge very low prices, they essentially push the higher end (and more experienced photographers) out the market, or force them to lower their prices to compete, even if they are much better.

Anyway. Thats my understanding on the matter, and how I feel about it.

Leo

[ssim]

Nice response lakiluno. You make alot of sense in some areas of your post.

I see some responses here that say, "Hey, I'm only doing this part time, why do I need that second body, or lens or whatever". To boil it right down, you don't. Mid-range and high end digital cameras are very much within the financial reach of allot of people these days. If you want to do your cousins wedding with a minimum of equipment just be sure to qualify to them that you are limited in your equipment.

What I do see is allot of people that want to turn this into a sideline business. I encourage them to do that but if you are, then treat it like a business and not anything less. If you take on a wedding with one body then you should beg, borrow, plead or rent a second body. Imagine yourself having to tell the bride and groom in the middle of a shoot that your body just gave up the ghost and you are not able to continue shooting. If you take on a customer then you are treating this as a business and it should be approached accordingly. This is the underlying theme that I am trying to get across. The chances are slim that your gear will fail you but it does happen. It happened to me shooting film on a Pentax 6X7 at a wedding years ago. I had a backup so the couple weren't the wiser about it.

The XT is a great camera and I don't see any reason why it can't be a good starter camera for weddings or a mulitude of other commercial jobs. I wish that I had saved the link, there was someone on here that posted his glamour shots using the XT and I was literally blown away by the quality. Granted some of the quality in his shots came into the post processing side of it but the XT was the starting point for the image.

I could certainly get away with allot less gear. There is a good portion of my gear that I bought for own personal enjoyment. I make no apologies for this. I enjoy my photography a great deal and it has been a godsend for me in my personal life.

So if you are going to take on customers, gear up appropriately that will give you and your customer peace of mind that the job can be done until the final click of the day is supposed to happen.

[verty]

i am a 350d shooter.. and im not pro or anything but ive had a few paying gigs...
i think the 350d is fine if you want to start out... get a feel for it and if you enjoy it upgrade the body from there.. just make sure you buy decent sorta lenses that can be used on future upgrades...

check out deviantart.com
i use that site ALOT to check out photography.. i am a memember and have all my fave photographers on my watch list.. so whenever they post a new pic i can see it instantly.. these pics give me ideas and inspriation...

goodluck :D

[MikeMcL]

i think a good progression after reading all of this, and my own personal preogression is...
xt, lens, lens, lens, accessory, accessory, accessory, flash, flash, etc... then sencond body to round out the pro kit, maybe a 5d by that time so you can have the benefit of both format sensors...

no point in having 2 bodies if you are shooting with junk glass, or if you are stuck lacking in another area. develop your kit in a way that makes sense to you. i think my way is working well for me. I heard of a guy on here that had 1 large CF card, and had problems because he was using it on 2 bodies in the same shoot. file numbering issue if i remember right. make sure you have enough accessories to justify the second body.

have fun, it is a big black hole that sucks up alot of money... but most hobbies (or professions) do.

[woffles]

Just remember when your only camera dies on you at a wedding and you are in court later facing a crying bride the judge won't care that some people told you on here that it was okay just to have one camera. Not putting anybody on here down just want you to be aware of the ramifications in case something did happen. I'm just getting into this myself and am making sure I have two of everything important before I commit to doing a wedding by myself. That will be next month.

Don't forget things like liability insurance, equipment insurance, taxes, lab fees, software costs, your time to process 700-1000 pictures, building a wedding album and any other things that come up. I'm just trying not to be overwhelmed myself.

[Wilt]

'two of everything' is stretching things a bit...two 24-70L lenses? Who could afford that! No , but another lens to use in case the 24-70L fails, like a 50mm, is a must. And to shoot with only a single body *is* risky...I *have* had a medium format film body fail on the job, and having the second body to fall back on saved me from the grief of telling the bride and her mother that I couldn't fulfill my end of the contract!

[amyb68]

I've been reading this thread and I also think at this point it is unrealistic to expect to have 2 of everything. I am in a similar postition (I am not a "professional" but have made some money doing headshots, portraits, etc.). I have a 20D and love it. If you can afford it, it may be a better choice than the Rebel because you will grow into it for awhile. It really is a good in between consumer and total pro camera. I think they have come down in price since the 5D was introduced. My lighting equipment may not be a fancy as the next photogs and I may not a Mark 1, but my clients have been happy. I would agree, however, with the post about weddings. If you can't afford a second camera body, try and have another photographer friend that you trust shoot as your second. It is good just to have a backup in case something goes wrong at a wedding.