Repetitive strain injury using the 10D and heavy lenses

[maderito]

Anyone having pain in the hands, forearms and/or elbows from shooting thousands of pics with heavy lenses and spending hours on at your CPU, hand on keyboard and mouse, getting those shots ready for your gallery?

I'm sure I'm having a form of "repetitive strain injury" (RSI) since purchasing the 10D and working with a few medium weight zoom lenses. I'm doing some simple forearm strengthening exercises, which maybe are beginning to help.

Anyone else having these problems? Any advice?

[robertwgross]

You should not get any RSI from doing so many different manual tasks. If you spent eight hours per day only at the keyboard, then that would be different. If you keep mixing up your tasks, then there should not be a problem. On the other hand, I've seen lots of computer users that had a hideously bad ergonomic setup at their computer. The keyboard should be at the same height as your elbows when your arms hang down from the shoulders. The center of the monitor should be at about a 10 degree down angle from your eyes.

I lug my monster wildlife lens around (that is a monster lens, not a lens for shooting monster wildlife), and about the only problem I get is a groove cut into the back of my neck from the weight on the damned neck strap, or the groove cut in my shoulder from the shoulder bag strap.

If it gets really bad, you need to do some exercises. I recommend the standard 12-ounce arm curls.

---Bob Gross---

[maderito]

Bob - Thanks for your comments. I've worked at computers for years and spend a lot of time with sports activities that involve forearm and elbow strain (baseball, tennis, etc.). I'm familiar with sports-related injuries and RSI from improper position and posture during computer use. What's changed my life is the 10D (and associated new lenses) - which I use much more frequently than my former Elan system.

I'm experiencing pain in the flexor muscles & tendons of the upper forearm. I don't use a neck strap but instead work always with the BG-ED3 grip and strap. At the end of a few hours of shooting, my right forearm hurts.

You're right - it will probably improve with exercises and more photo shoots. I suspected that my problem was not so unique -- perhaps it is.

[Andy_T]

Maybe it's just your muscles growing from the amount of 10D exercise you get...

Regards,
Andy

[defordphoto]

When I shoot the Jet Sprint Boats, they run pretty much all day with a 40 minute break for lunch. The start about 10am and run until 3-5pm. I'm there shooting all day with my 10D and 3.X pounder 100-400L IS and/or 70-200L f2.8 IS.

How do I (we, actually, my wife shoots too) get through the day? Stretching between boat runs. I don't get much time, but constantly stretching helps a lot and I don't end up too sore the next day.

I do not use a monopod at all. I tried it once and that lasted for about 34 seconds. For what I shoot, and how I shoot, the monopod is way too restrictive.

I don't use the 12-ounce training methods that Bob does, but some type of excercise would be helpful.

[robertwgross]

maderito wrote:
I'm experiencing pain in the flexor muscles & tendons of the upper forearm. I don't use a neck strap but instead work always with the BG-ED3 grip and strap. At the end of a few hours of shooting, my right forearm hurts.


There is an innovative new camera product that you might try for the sake of variety. It's called a tripod.

---Bob Gross---

[oceantan]

maderito

Pain arising from the flexors tendons of the upper forearm sounds like you have 'Golfer's Elbow'. As the name implies, pain usually occurs in golfers' right forearm as a result of excessive and repetitive force arising from the golf shalf when the club hits the ball and being absorbed at the flexors tendons.

From your account, it sounds like you carry your 10D with the forearm supinated (Forearm and palm facing out in front of you) and elbow straighten. As a result, a lot of force is being taken up by the flexor tendons. Try pronating your arm (Keeping elbow straight) when carrying your 10D (ie palm facing your body). But then again, you may develop 'tennis elbow pain' if you pronate too much.

Remember, you have already strained it. So, go slow on your stretches and strengthening exercises. Ice it if it is painful still. A bit of anti-inflammatory topical gel might be helpful. Just don't mix ice with the gel.

[mjordan]

I used the hand grip on my RB67 camera (and that with a 300mm lens was not light) but I also used a wide neck strap. That way if I had a chance I could rest my left arm by letting the strap (and my neck) take up the weight.

Maybe the addition of a neck strap with your setup will help relieve some of thw work your arm does. I have also used a tripod with a quick release. That way I can set the camera on the tripod and then quickly take it off when I'm shooting. I almost never take my camera bag or camera off and set them down. There are just too many ways they can be gone in a blink of an eye.

Mike

[robertwgross]

mjordan wrote:
There are just too many ways they can be gone in a blink of an eye.


About 1/30 of a second.


---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

robertwgross wrote:
There is an innovative new camera product that you might try for the sake of variety. It's called a tripod.

---Bob Gross---


Score one point for Bob's insightful use of brutal (albeit arguably irrelevant for this discussion) logic.

Tripods sound really great, Bob. Where can I get one? Do monopods cost one-third as much. Can I use a gastropod to support my Cannon D10, or will it just go ‘squish?’

RFMSports wrote:I do not use a monopod at all. I tried it once and that lasted for about 34 seconds. For what I shoot, and how I shoot, the monopod is way too restrictive.

There are just some situations where any kind of support device is going to be way too cumbersome. Motorsports are a perfect example; things usually happen quickly, and generally where you’re not looking. One’s ability to react with a tripod or a monopod is severely hampered by the simple presence of all that hardware dangling down below the camera. Moreover, it just adds weight to the amount of gear one has to carry around when the camera isn’t being used. That’s one of the advantages to big, fast, heavy lenses. If we could shoot everything off a support device, a good part of the challenge of spontaneous photography would be eliminated.

That having been said, I think the combination of the hand strap on the battery grip and a good, well padded neck strap, combined with a regimen of occasional stretching and resting, will get most everyone through a strenuous day of shooting.

Tom

[maderito]

robertwgross wrote:
There is an innovative new camera product that you might try for the sake of variety. It's called a tripod.

---Bob Gross---


Sympathy and advice always appreciated, Bob. Currently I'm using my tripod to do the 12 lb arm curls you suggested. (One suggestion at a time, please).

oceantan wrote:
From your account, it sounds like you carry your 10D with the forearm supinated (Forearm and palm facing out in front of you) and elbow straighten.


I think you're on the right track ... but actually, I walk with my forearm pronated and wrist extended slightly while gripping the BG-ED3. I'm now realizing that I inaccurately characterized my pain as involving the forearm flexors; it's actually the extensors. So after inverting your argument, it turns out to be correct. So I think I'll try your treatment suggestions -- instead of Bob's. :)

[robertwgross]

A heavy tripod might work for a 12-pound exercise. I had referred to a 12-ounce arm curl, which is a male codeword for drinking from a 12-ounce can of beer.

---Bob Gross---

[maderito]

robertwgross wrote:
I had referred to a 12-ounce arm curl, which is a male codeword for drinking from a 12-ounce can of beer.
---Bob Gross---

In my neighborhood, the guys tend to hang out sipping 40-ounce malts, perhaps explaining why I missed your reference. They also have pretty big muscles!

[CyberDyneSystems]

I swear by a Monopod with quick release for all medium to long lenses. I find it much easier. I am sure there are times that even a well trained monopod will be cumbersome.. but I have not experienced it yet myself.

[Belmondo]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I swear by a Monopod.

Well, there's a difference of opinion....you swear by yours, Jim swears at his.

I just swear.......a lot!

Tom

[CoolToolGuy]

I hoisted the 70-200 2.8 IS for the first time on Saturday (Canon Day at Cooper's Camera Mart), and I fully understand the concern. I'm not sure it would stop me from buying the lens (if I get there, it will probably be the 2.8 without the IS), but the point is well taken. Toting that baby all day could get tiring, the RSI issue notwithstanding. So how about we lobby Canon to replace all or most of the metal with lightweight carbon fiber! Ooh boy, then it would be a $2000 lens! ($2500 with IS). Perhaps it would start a new class of Canon lenses - LL (Light Luxury).
Seriously, another tangent - motorsports photography was discussed earlier in this thread, and tripods and monopods were rejected. Many years ago, in the days before EOS, I had similar concerns. I had a couple of opportunities with photo credentials, but most of the time I was behind the fences with the other paying customers. I made a 'chain pod' from a 1/4-20 eye bolt and 7 feet of light chain, and stowed it in a prescription bottle in my bag. Screw the eye bolt into the tripod socket and drop the chain, then step on it to get the height you need. You can even steady the camera over your head to get above the crowd. When you're done, you gather up the chain and you're off. It has always been one of my favorite items. But it certainly won't solve the RSI issue.
Have Fun
P.S. I do my best with the spelling and grammar, but I must advise that this post has not yet been proofed by Bob G.

[defordphoto]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I swear by a Monopod with quick release for all medium to long lenses. I find it much easier. I am sure there are times that even a well trained monopod will be cumbersome.. but I have not experienced it yet myself.

Ahhh! Maybe that's the problem. Where do I send my monopod for training? Obviously it has never been (probably why it was so cheap) as it's so unruly and yes, cumbersome.

[Longwatcher]

One possible suggesting, that may or may not work.

Neck strap and an angle finder C, then you can hang it by the neck and strain you neck and shoulders instead.

I suspect this is not practical though, but I would try it if I had to hold the 10D, BG-ED3 w/batteries, and my 70-200/2.8 IS for more then a couple of hours at a time.


I use the hand strap with the above setup and with my left hand cradling the lens around the zoom ring. Two hours is my limit at this time before my arms starts complaining.

Just my experience and a wild suggestion.

[LegMaker]

Maderito,
If your arm is becoming chronically symptomatic, it might benefit you to contact a local Physiatrist ( Rehab MD), get evaluated and possibly get a prescription for Physical Therapy. Some mild injuries when left untreated may require more extensive medical attention. Just don't let it get out of control.
Although this is a great place for photography questions and everyone here is always helpfull, it may not be the best place to seek medical advice.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to come off so serious..but I've rambled enough.
Take care of that arm and get back to taking shots so we can see some of them posted on the board. 8)

Take care...

[KarlJones]

robertwgross wrote:I lug my monster wildlife lens around (that is a monster lens, not a lens for shooting monster wildlife)...
Lucky you caught yourself, Bob! I was ready to run with the ball on that one. :D

[maderito]

LegMaker wrote:
Maderito,
If your arm is becoming chronically symptomatic, it might benefit you to contact a local Physiatrist ( Rehab MD), get evaluated and possibly get a prescription for Physical Therapy. Some mild injuries when left untreated may require more extensive medical attention. Just don't let it get out of control...

Take care...


LegMaker - after 18 previous posts, finally a wise and welcomed suggestion from you.

But . . . I've talked to the doc and he suggested that I consult the Forum.

Although the research is less than 100% complete, there is no published medical literature on this particular RSI - so we do have a chance to give it a name and write up the case report. "Photographer's forearm" doesn't quite do it for me. Jim suggested "70-200IS f2.8-itis" (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19950#115281) which ain't bad.

Rehab specialists and orthopedists see this kind of injury all the time. It's part of the weekend warrior syndrome -- those aging males who self-inflict bodily harm trying to emulate the days of their youth. My post was simply a query to determine if I had the first documented case of an amateur photographer falling victim to this otherwise well-described ailment.

[mjordan]

maderito wrote:

Rehab specialists and orthopedists see this kind of injury all the time. It's part of the weekend warrior syndrome -- those aging males who self-inflict bodily harm trying to emulate the days of their youth. My post was simply a query to determine if I had the first documented case of an amateur photographer falling victim to this otherwise well-described ailment.


Well, remember you still have one option that might take care of the problem. Litagation (that's part of the "L" family isn't it?). If someone can sue McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in their lap and theives can sue home owners because they were protecting their property, you could sue Canon for making such a heavy lens and camera combination. Then when you won millions, you can hire someone else to carry all your equipment for you... until they sued you for workman's comp. ;D


Note: no lawyers were consulted during the posting of the message.

Mike

[BearSummer]

Hi Maderito,

You are not alone, I was quite happy lugging the D60 with grip and 100-400/70-200 around just as you describe. Then got the 1DS and 85 1.2 and tried the same thing... lugging that around for a couple of hours and it gets hard to hold it steady cos your forearm aches. What I do now is cup it in the crook of my other arm to spread the load. Before you kind souls offer to help me out by looking after it for me, thanks but I will struggle through

All the best

BearSummer

[Belmondo]

BearSummer wrote:
Before you kind souls offer to help me out by looking after it for me, thanks but I will struggle through

How many people would love to have our problems?

My Bentley uses so much petrol.
My Gulfstream needs new upholstery.
A diamond is missing from the bezel on my Rolex.

We all have problems, and the weight of the big L lenses is our little cross to bear. We'll all be just fine, I'm sure.

Tom

[CoachP8]

Hey you guys... Photography captures and embraces all human experience. Consequently, some photagraphers will be required by the nature of veiws they chose to record to be physically fit.

Beyond our knowledge and technical expertise, comes our own personal limitations.

Photography requires physical as well as intellectual & esthetic abilities.

What we photographers do is a mind/body/spirit thing...

[CyberDyneSystems]

Wow,. I can't believe some of you are complaining that a lightweight lens like the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS is heavy! :eyes

What you needed to do was to buy your first SLR and a Sigma 50-500mm lens as your only lens for 2 weeks (while the other lens is stuck in mail order hell)

...after those two weeks every lens you pick up will seem light as a feather!