420 EX Flash

[FramerPDX]

Hello everyone...

I went to a annual banquet last night and decided to bring along the 10D with the 420ex mounted on top...

I had new batteries in it and the battery grip for the camera... my question is this how can I get the flash to fire in a more rapid speed it seemed like I had to wait for ever for the flash to fire again any help for a newbie would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance...


-Ty

[PacAce]

FramerPDX wrote:
Hello everyone...

I went to a annual banquet last night and decided to bring along the 10D with the 420ex mounted on top...

I had new batteries in it and the battery grip for the camera... my question is this how can I get the flash to fire in a more rapid speed it seemed like I had to wait for ever for the flash to fire again any help for a newbie would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance...


-Ty

If you were using alkaline batteries, you might want to consider switching to rechargeable batteries. I had the same problem myself when I was using my 10D with a 420EX to shoot my wife's graduation pictures. I missed a couple of "grad receiving diploma" shots because the 420EX was taking too long to recharge after a full discharge.

I bought 2 sets of rechargeables and they seem to recharge in almost half the time it takes the alkaline to charge up.

If you are already using rechargeable batteries and it's still not fast enough for you, then I guess the only other option is to upgrade to a flash that will take external high voltages sources.

[FramerPDX]

so I might have had a bad set of batteries then could that have been what was causing it?

thanks for the help


-Ty

[DonCoon]

I find that I can fire off three shots in succession using freshly charged 1800mah NiMhs. I assume I could do even better with the latest 2200mahs.

[robertwgross]

As a general rule a *new* alkaline battery set will supply more instantaneous power than a rechargeable battery set, such as NiMH.

You probably refer to the flash cycling rate, rather than the recharge rate. Turn on the 420EX with fresh batteries, let it "wind up" until the ready light is on. Fire it. Then see how long it takes for the ready light to come on a second time. Some call this the flash recovery time.

I use my 550EX more than my 420EX, but the principle is the same. You will get the least expensive operation by using NiMH battery sets, but you will get the quicker flash recovery time with fresh alkaline sets.

When I shoot weddings, I go with one fresh alkaline set in the flash unit. Then I have two more fresh alkaline sets in my pockets. We shoot 5-10 shots in one location, and then we move to a second location. I move out the slightly used batteries and move in the fresh ones, and I keep alternating them until all have been used.

For me, it is better to be able to get the flash shot regardless of whether it costs me a few extra pennies.

Between weddings, I shop around the large electronics stores and purchase large packages of name-brand AA alkalines at cheap prices.

---Bob Gross---

[EXA1a]

The firing frequency of an automatic flash depends on what percentage of full blast you use per shot. And this depends on the ISO and aperture settings.
When you use for instance ISO100 and f11 or f16, the flash will put out full blast and takes long time to recharge.
With a moderate setting like ISO 400 and f4 or f5.6 only a small portion of the full charge is being used and recharged in a split-second. With these settings you could flashwise shoot faster than your camera allows.

--Jens--

[scottbergerphoto]

To further reduce recycle time, you can buy the 550EX, a Quantum Turbo or Turbo Z battery pack and Quantum CZ Turbo Cable. The external battery pack will give you about 2.5 sec. recycle time at full power. At lower power it's virtually instantaneous. Unfortunately the 420Ex doesn't allow for an external high voltage cable.
http://www.qtm.com/
Scott

[DonCoon]

robertwgross wrote:
As a general rule a *new* alkaline battery set will supply more instantaneous power than a rechargeable battery set, such as NiMH.

You probably refer to the flash cycling rate, rather than the recharge rate. Turn on the 420EX with fresh batteries, let it "wind up" until the ready light is on. Fire it. Then see how long it takes for the ready light to come on a second time. Some call this the flash recovery time.

---Bob Gross---

Canon's Specs for the 430EX

"Recycle Time

7 Seconds (based on alkaline batteries & full power)
4 Seconds (based on NiCd batteries & full power)"

I assume NiMhs perform as well or better than NiCds. My 430EX definitely recycles faster on NiMh than with alkalines. YMMV

[FramerPDX]

can someone tell me what the settings are for the flash I mean

there are like a little green circle and a lighting bolt with a H can someone explain this to me...

thanks..

oh yeah can someone tell me where I can down load a manual I lost mine...


thanks again...


-Ty

[FramerPDX]

bump

I just want to see if anyone will respond to the last post on this thread that I put up...

[toddb]

Since the recycle time gets longer as the battery gets lower in juice, I switched to reachargables. If there starts to be more lag then I want, I just pull them out and replace them. This to me is acceptable and is a good alt to getting one of the external power sources for now. The new 2200mA recharchables do pretty good and pay for themselves pretty fast if you use flash like I do allot.

[robertwgross]

In general, you don't want to confuse NiMH batteries with NiCd batteries. They have rather different voltage-current discharge curves, so when you use them indiscriminantly in the wrong device, you might get unexpected results.

Also, I don't believe that the Canon 430EX is the same as the 420EX, so I wouldn't expect the specifications to match.

(from the Canon 420EX manual)

battery type recycling time flash count
size AA alkaline approx. 0.1-7.5 sec approx.200-1400

Note: Using size AA NiMH batteries will yield only about 70-80% of these flashes (1550 mAh at full output) obtainable with size AA alkaline batteries. The recycling time will also be about half the time with size AA alkaline batteries.

(That is the way that it is printed. I wonder if it meant to state twice the time, not half the time.)

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

Take this for what it's worth, coming from me not much, but since I have used my PowerEX 2200mAh NiMH batts, I don't seem to get that trail off towards the end as much as I did with Alkaline. What I mean, is that I notice that the recycle time is really good, then all of the sudden it just wont recycle to full (meaning on my 550EX, I get the green lamp but not the full power red light). For how I use them, these batts have been excellent! I also like the fact that they are more environment friendly because I'm not dumping so many used batts (makes me feel good). I do keep a spare set of alkalines with me, but don't expect to ever use them.

there are like a little green circle and a lighting bolt with a H can someone explain this to me...

You probably need to read the manual or download a new one (I'm sure it's out there somewhere). I'm still reading my 550EX and I still don't quite under stand all the features. I bet the lighting bolt with an H could mean high speed sync meaning you can use higher shutter speeds to capture faster moving targets (totally guessing).

[robertwgross]

toddb wrote:
I bet the lighting bolt with an H could mean high speed sync meaning you can use higher shutter speeds to capture faster moving targets (totally guessing).


Good guess. High speed sync.

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

Sometimes reading the book is better then experimenting. I was holding the 550 near my eyes when I found that pressing on the pilot lamp is not only an indicator light but a test flash button. Ouch. Now I know why it's also called a stun gun.

[maderito]

FramerPDX wrote:
oh yeah can someone tell me where I can down load a manual I lost mine...
-Ty

Seems that the manual is hard to come by. See previous discussion: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9310

[PacAce]

robertwgross wrote:
In general, you don't want to confuse NiMH batteries with NiCd batteries. They have rather different voltage-current discharge curves, so when you use them indiscriminantly in the wrong device, you might get unexpected results.

Also, I don't believe that the Canon 430EX is the same as the 420EX, so I wouldn't expect the specifications to match.

(from the Canon 420EX manual)

battery type recycling time flash count
size AA alkaline approx. 0.1-7.5 sec approx.200-1400

Note: Using size AA NiMH batteries will yield only about 70-80% of these flashes (1550 mAh at full output) obtainable with size AA alkaline batteries. The recycling time will also be about half the time with size AA alkaline batteries.

(That is the way that it is printed. I wonder if it meant to state twice the time, not half the time.)

---Bob Gross---

Bob, I'm inclined to agree with DonCoon. My experience has been that the recycle time with a NiMH battery is shorter than that of alkalines. AAMOF, if you reread your quote out of your flash manual, I think it says exactly that ("The recycling time will also be about half the time with size AA alkaline batteries.) Half the time is shorter than full time, no?

Now, if we're talking about home many full flashes one can get out of a rechargeable, then, yes, you get less out of the rechargeables than you do out of the alkalines. :)

[DonCoon]

robertwgross wrote:

Also, I don't believe that the Canon 430EX is the same as the 420EX, so I wouldn't expect the specifications to match.



My bad! AFAIK, there is no 430EX. My fingers simply found the "3" while searching for the "2".

And I'll add that I have yet to find an application where NiMhs couldn't be substituted for NiCds while giving better performance.

Now, that doesn't mean that NiMhs are best for all applications. For example, I'd never use them in a flashlight due to their poor shelf life.

So to clarify my earlier post. Page 11 (repeated on page 50) in the 420EX manual:

Size-AA alkaline batteries: 0.1-7.5 sec recycle time, 200-1400 flashes.
Size-AA Ni-Cd batteries: 0.1-4.5 sec recycle time, 80-600 flashes.

"Battery Cautions" (Bottom of page)
Size-AA nickel-hydride .... can also be used.

Keep in mind, the issue was recycle time not the number of flashes.

[robertwgross]

The complicating factor here is that the Canon manual does not distinguish between a NiMH battery of the older generation (maybe a year ago) and one of the newer generation (now). The newer ones have significantly more mAh capacity than the older ones, and we really don't know what Canon tested.

---Bob Gross---

[DonCoon]

robertwgross wrote:
The complicating factor here is that the Canon manual does not distinguish between a NiMH battery of the older generation (maybe a year ago) and one of the newer generation (now). The newer ones have significantly more mAh capacity than the older ones, and we really don't know what Canon tested.

---Bob Gross---

That's correct. Wouldn't you have to assume that the newer NiMHs would perform even better than the old?

I bought my first NiMHs in 1999 for my Nikon 950. They were rated 1300mah -- twice the capacity of 600mah NiCds! Now 1800mah batteries are common and 2300mah are available.

Is there any way the higher mah batteries can be a disadvantage? I'd assume they'd simply give you longer life. That's also my subjective experience.

[robertwgross]

I know that ham radio operators still swear by NiCd batteries for some applications. For certain high amperage tasks, that is the battery of choice. NiCd batteries have some big disadvantages (memory effect, environmental waste impact, etc.), so for applications with less amperage demand, NiMH has become the battery of choice if cost is a big issue.

For cameras like ours, Lithium ion batteries were chosen by Mister Canon, and I guess we are stuck with that. I've been using Lithium ion for only a little over one year now, so I would be interested to hear from another user how they hold up over longer time, like two or three years.

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

I think the Lithium Ion really depends on the battery design itself. Fore example, I've had my Sony DCP-PC100 DV camera and the original battery for years. I do use a spare as well when I use the light in the hot shoe. But after 3 years they are still working perfectly.

On the other foot, I have a Sony DSC-P1 3MP point and shoot for about the same time and I need to replace the battery about every 6 months. Been through 6 of them so far and pretty much stop using it because of it. I shot at least 3000 pictures a year with it (LOL, now I shoot that per month with the 10D), but I also used the DV camera quite a bit too, and still do. I have at least 45 tapes recoreded and I also use it as a DV deck for editing.

So I guess only time will tell if the 10D Lithiums will be winners or not.

As far as how I like them, I wish you could shove a couple regualar alkalines in the battery chamber when needed. Even though they recharge fast, you never know when you going to be stuck without power.