DVD/CD burning restriction

[NatsRoses]

Hi! I want to make a DVD slideshow for a client, but I don't want her making multiplpe reproductions of it (I"m hoping grandmas and such might want a copy too). How do I go about making the DVD "unburnable". I'm sure it's probably through the use of some software, but have no idea which one. Thanks for your help!

[ssim]

I think that there is software that can make it difficult but in todays world of technology as fast as it comes out someone finds a way around it. I personally wouldn't bother with the software. I would place a sticker on the jewel case that had wording something to the effect that by breaking this seal that they agree to abide by the terms of the agreement. Make sure you have it detailed that you do not want further copies burnt.

[tim]

Once something's digital it can be copied no matter what you do. There may be technologies to make it harder, but I don't think they're worth the bother.

[dgcorner]

I agree with Sheldon -- DVD Decrypter or DVD Shrink or some other software will just cut through it... If the person you are selling to has techno-phobia then you might get away with protecting your DVD...

[NatsRoses]

Thanks for your input guys!! I read up aliitle more about it and you are right, maybe it's not worth the bother.

[peterdoomen]

You can also make a DVD show, but not include the original pics in the DVD. That way, they can view the pics but not print them. Especially when you include transition effects. I use MemoriesOnTV for that, but there is other software available like ProShow.

P.

[Wilt]

I just thought up a possible tactic...

Put each of the photos into Powerpoint slides. The export the PPT into PDF form. The disk could be copied, but no useful individual images can be printed.

[stupot]

i think most non photographers wont know the difference between a photo nicked and printed off a pdf and the real thing:)

[Wilt]

i think most non photographers wont know the difference between a photo nicked and printed off a pdf and the real thing:)

The output PDF is 'just pixels' on screen with NO ability to right-click any single image so that it can be stored to disk. That was the reason for my initial idea. My idea sucks, though, because you can PRINT andy PDF to any printer you want!

[bcap]

unless you lock it ... most peopel can't get past that

[Jon, The Elder]

Hey bcap - open the .pdf file and do a 'save-as'. Unless its pW protected.

[bcap]

That's what I mean - password protect it

[Greg_C]

Although I've never tried it, I think Proshow Gold has a feature that will lock out after a certain period. Doesn't do you any good if you want the original sale to have it and be able to run forever.

5min search with google will turn up heaps of pdf password crackers. I've even heard of people taking screen caputures within adobe reader to get past password protection. Probably gives very bad quality but they must not mind. In reality most security measure can be circumvented by a determined person.

[tim]

Although I've never tried it, I think Proshow Gold has a feature that will lock out after a certain period. Doesn't do you any good if you want the original sale to have it and be able to run forever.

I don't think that's for DVDs, as most DVD players don't know the date.

[deadpass]

i've never found a picture displayed on my computer that I couldn't instantly copy with the print screen button.

[artisticexpressions]

I use ProShow Gold and it does have options for protecting the CD/DVD's from being copied. We did a shoot with my neice and gave her a CD which my sister-in-law tried to copy for some friends that were interested in using us, but she could not get it work - and she works with computers. most end-users wont know how to go about breaking a 'code' to be able to burn a cd that is protected - I would think they would probably have to be VERY good at computers.
I would reccomend ProShow - i've used it for about a year and half and really like the features it has - but that's just my opinion. Hope this helped!

[grego]

Just make sure your info is the DVD, so if they were theoretically to copy it and other people would see it, you'd have free advertising. :)

[Phil V]

gave her a CD which my sister-in-law tried to copy for some friends that were interested in using us, but she could not get it work - and she works with computers. most end-users wont know how to go about breaking a 'code' to be able to burn a cd that is protected - I would think they would probably have to be VERY good at computers.

They don't need to be good with computers, try a free download of DVD shrink, or one of many other programs. If Hollywoods billions can't make it anything more than tricky, then we as photographers should just accept that we can't make copy proof DVDs.
As others have said, sell them cheap enough so that they don't need to make copies. Ensure that it's a professional looking product and it has your name emblazoned across it.

[399Retouch]

This topic goes under the generic term "Digital Rights Management," or DRM. It's a cat and mouse game, with the mice usually winning.

I wonder if a solution would be to distribute the slide show over the internet as streaming video, rather than on DVDs. Streaming video isn't immune to capture, but I've heard it's harder to do.

[Mathiau]

turn it into a exe file program or something that places all files into a single locked file :D

[tim]

Customers want DVDs, so customers get DVDs. EXE and streaming video aren't practical for most people who want to watch it on their TV, or their Grandma's TV, etc.

[MulderMan]

I put togeather alot of slideshows togeather in dvd studio pro on the mac. When burning the disk(s) it gives you a few options for copyright restrictions. Yes, the end-user can rip the disk to their harddrive to copy it, but they will never have the origional image files (unless you add them to a folder on the disk), just a video track that was produced by the software.

I would recommend that you add copy restrictions, it doesnt nesesarily stop them duplicating the disk, but is a good precuation for the average person!

[Mathiau]

Customers want DVDs, so customers get DVDs. EXE and streaming video aren't practical for most people who want to watch it on their TV, or their Grandma's TV, etc.

Good point, i was thinking PC for some reason.

[cecil]

One strange way would be to record an additional black video and make sure its the last track, then, if you know roughly where it is, scratch it and nobody can copy it as it'll show error in copying.

[Jaymz]

One strange way would be to record an additional black video and make sure its the last track, then, if you know roughly where it is, scratch it and nobody can copy it as it'll show error in copying.

There is software for ripping disc that can ignore bad spots, some even copy the bad spots as they are, so the disc can still be copied.

[artisticexpressions]

Just make sure your info is the DVD, so if they were theoretically to copy it and other people would see it, you'd have free advertising. :)

that is another thing i do - the first and last slides in my DVD have our studio information on them - i.e. usually something like "A Slideshow presentation by Artistic Expressions Photography" followed by our web address and/or other information, and a copyright notice, and then i do another slide at the end with our name and contact information as well and that slide stays on the screen until they click something or hit escape.

I guess if people truly want to make a copy, they're going to find a way to do it.

[MikeMcL]

i recently did a "documentary" of a trip we took to guam. i am in the military and i got a pass to shoot the jets, candids of people at work, and things like that.

I collected ONE dollar from about 135 people to make a disc of the images. Even at ONE dollar, i still had people trying to pirate it. ridiculous. I knew this was going to happen, so i got the last laugh. i gave them about 750 images of the small 640x480 pixel images.

i put a small note in each envelope letting people know that the images were compressed to fit, and if they wanted a higher quality image, contact me personally.

I did get a few calls, so that was good. but i wasnt really doing it for a paycheck. i got plenty of recognition, and got a shot in the airforce paper, and on the airforce website... that was more than i hoped for...

the point is, even at $1, people were trying to steal it. making it HARD to steal will only keep honest people honest. the crooks will always steal no matter the difficulty. either give then low quality images, or just do your best and let the people know that you would like them to make no additional copies, they are your property, and you can sell them a copy very reasonably.

That will keep the honest ones honest.

[Mathiau]

THe issue is people dont feel "copying" a disk is stealing because they are not denying the owner of their content.

amazing how many people have this mentality, and frankly alot of people always will, untill they have somthing "copied" from them.

[Franko515]

I think you should put some protection on the dvd. While it can be by-passed easily, MOST computer users dont know how. (I know because I get paid to show people how) Most computer users dont have a clue (excluding people on board such as this, but even then most people dont care to wade through forum topics to find info). How do you guys think the GeekSquad is in business? (most things they do and charge $100 for could be done in 10min at home, while they will take your computer for 1 day) You guys give people too much credit ;)

Oh and by the way, it is within your legal right to make a copy of anything you own. While your not supposed to sell the copies, there is nothing to stop you from selling the original ;) Just something else to think about. Though I still think you guys give the average computer user too much credit.

[Jaymz]

Oh and by the way, it is within your legal right to make a copy of anything you own. While your not supposed to sell the copies, there is nothing to stop you from selling the original ;) Just something else to think about. Though I still think you guys give the average computer user too much credit.

hmmm, as I understand it; It is legal to make one backup copy of whatever media you own, provided you keep the original.

[miloskinner]

My favorite anti-copying technique has been a good relationship with the customer, a friendly and easy-to-read explaination of their rights and mine (that we go over lightly face-to-face before the project), and an easy way for them to order more replications from me. I've found that the copying issue isn't usually about cash, it's about convenience. If it's a piece of cake for them to get another copy shipped off to grandma, they'll do it the right way. If it's a hassle and will require them to make a trip or two to the post office, you'll never hear from them.

[lakiluno]

Just tell them not to copy it. I have absolutely no time for people who think they can put programs that cripple your computer or even worse - its just wrong. If the people are trustworthy, and you explain that your an independant photographer who can't afford to have their images copied, they won't copy it. Most people will only copy something produced by huge multinational corporations, because they think they don't need the money or are evil. Remember, most people are good people :D

[Franko515]

hmmm, as I understand it; It is legal to make one backup copy of whatever media you own, provided you keep the original.

No law can may you keep something you own ;) If that were true if you sell the oringinal then you have to throw away the copy and this isnt the case.

[Jaymz]

No law can may you keep something you own ;) If that were true if you sell the oringinal then you have to throw away the copy and this isnt the case.

Ok, Then whats the difference between this? I purchase a CD from my local record store, copy it, and then sell the original. OR Just download the album from any of the popular file sharing networks.

Yes I know the steps in aquiring the music is different but the end result is you have a copied album with no original.

I don't know enough about this, so this is just random thoughts.

[Wilt]

Ok, Then whats the difference between this? I purchase a CD from my local record store, copy it, and then sell the original. OR Just download the album from any of the popular file sharing networks.

Yes I know the steps in aquiring the music is different but the end result is you have a copied album with no original.

I don't know enough about this, so this is just random thoughts.

Nothing different...in all cases you ought to throw the copy away, or turn yourself into the cops :p

[Jaymz]

Nothing different...in all cases you ought to throw the copy away, or turn yourself into the cops :p

Thats how I understand it to be.

[Franko515]

Nothing different...in all cases you ought to throw the copy away, or turn yourself into the cops :p

There is no language in the fair use law that says this. You are entitled to make a copy of anything you own. You also have the right to sell anything you own (excluding the copied disc) ;)


Ok, Then whats the difference between this? I purchase a CD from my local record store, copy it, and then sell the original. OR Just download the album from any of the popular file sharing networks.

Yes I know the steps in aquiring the music is different but the end result is you have a copied album with no original.

I don't know enough about this, so this is just random thoughts.


You are correct the steps are different to get the music, and in the end if you buy the cd then copy it and sell the original you have in fact copied from the original which you did own ;) Copying from the file sharing network is staright stealing. I know this may sound iffie but it is well within your rights :cool:

[Wilt]

There is no language in the fair use law that says this. You are entitled to make a copy of anything you own. You also have the right to sell anything you own (excluding the copied disc) ;)



You are correct the steps are different to get the music, and in the end if you buy the cd then copy it and sell the original you have in fact copied from the original which you did own ;) Copying from the file sharing network is staright stealing. I know this may sound iffie but it is well within your rights :cool:

You obviously contstrued my previous reply as having sincerity! :rolleyes:

[lakiluno]

but once you have sold it, you now own a backup of something you don't own, which is the same as the person you sold it too giving you a copy...

[Franko515]

You obviously contstrued my previous reply as having sincerity! :rolleyes:

no sir I didnt (hence the wink, and hence your :p ) comment was more for info than anything else. Sorry for the confusion :oops:

[Franko515]

but once you have sold it, you now own a backup of something you don't own, which is the same as the person you sold it too giving you a copy...

No it is not the same sir. You dont have to own it for the rest of your life ;) If the person you sold it to gave you a copy, they and you would be stealing. It all has to do with the language of the fair use act :D

[SimonG]

There is no language in the fair use law that says this. You are entitled to make a copy of anything you own. You also have the right to sell anything you own (excluding the copied disc) ;) You need to brush up on your copyright law. From the U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/) website (emphasis mine):
Can I backup my computer software?
Yes, under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. Although the precise term used under section 117 is “archival” copy, not “backup” copy, these terms today are used interchangeably. This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works. Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if:
the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only;
you are the legal owner of the copy; and
any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred.You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films).
It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies.
Also, remember that the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent any form of copy protection for any purpose, thereby making it illegal to backup all retail DVDs and many software CDs. Like it or lump it, but unfortunately that's how it is in the US.

[Jaymz]

Simon, I had just read that exact paragraph before you posted it, so it seems my understanding of it was partially correct.

[SimonG]

Yes, I think that you and Wilt are on the right track. Unfortunately this is a very complex situation, particularly since the DMCA came into existance. It's quite hard to understand what can and cannot be done these days, which is bad for consumers.

I'd share my own thoughts on the topic, but I'd then be crossing a line in terms of starting a political discussion. ;)

[Franko515]

You need to brush up on your copyright law. From the U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/) website (emphasis mine):

Also, remember that the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent any form of copy protection for any purpose, thereby making it illegal to backup all retail DVDs and many software CDs. Like it or lump it, but unfortunately that's how it is in the US.

Actually its not illegal to copy your movies or cds, its just illegal to circumvent any form of copy protection (DMCA, If that makes any sense) Right now the fair use act and the DMCA are bumping heads as the fair use act hasnt caught up legally (YET) which all makes for interesting disscussion. In a sense everyone is right, which as you say is bad for the consumer :( It is not, I repeat not illegal to backup or archive (I believe this is the termonology used) your dvds or music. But by making it illegal to by-pass encryption (DMCA) we have this ongoing debate.

Does this make sense to anybody but me :oops: ?
If not look up the fair use act for even further confusion :p

[Wilt]

To paraphrase, "To 'backup' or 'archive' is legal ; but if something prevents you from making a copy it is illegal to circumvent that protection device." You can copy VCR tapes that don't have MacroVision protection, you can copy DVDs as long as you don't mind the screen going dark and light every 10 seconds while you watch the copy. You can copy music on an LP to digital once.

I can comprehend that.

[SimonG]

Franko515, I was specifically responding to the idea that it's fine to retain a backup after selling or giving away your original copy - this is clearly not allowed under the copyright act.

While it is commonly accepted practice, making copies or format-shifting one's media is not expressly allowed under the U.S. Copyright Act. This link (http://www.eff.org/cafe/drmgame/copyright-faq.html) has a good discussion on the topic. However, this is getting OT for a photography forum, so that's my last word on the topic.

[Franko515]

Franko515, I was specifically responding to the idea that it's fine to retain a backup after selling or giving away your original copy - this is clearly not allowed under the copyright act.

While it is commonly accepted practice, making copies or format-shifting one's media is not expressly allowed under the U.S. Copyright Act. This link (http://www.eff.org/cafe/drmgame/copyright-faq.html) has a good discussion on the topic. However, this is getting OT for a photography forum, so that's my last word on the topic.

Ok we just have to agree to disagree ;)

[SimonG]

Ok we just have to agree to disagree ;)
:neutral:

[rhys]

Hi! I want to make a DVD slideshow for a client, but I don't want her making multiplpe reproductions of it (I"m hoping grandmas and such might want a copy too). How do I go about making the DVD "unburnable". I'm sure it's probably through the use of some software, but have no idea which one. Thanks for your help!


Technically it's as difficult as making a cassette uncopiable. There is no way. Produce a lock that's unbreakable and somebody will break it. I used to write software and used to use a key that I used to sell. It wasn't so long before people were producing cracks for the software. Generally within a few weeks of release after having spent months writing the software. Basically, I gave up writing software - too much of a mugs game.

[lilbill08]

I personally think DRM is annoying. It is just a step extra to go through. Assuming it wasn't free. If they buy it, let them control the media that they bought. Just my thought.

[rhys]

I personally think DRM is annoying. It is just a step extra to go through. Assuming it wasn't free. If they buy it, let them control the media that they bought. Just my thought.

DRM is a piece of cake to crack anyway.