My Saddest Day, Ever

[mwinog2777]

Yesterday was my saddest day, ever. I've been the proud owner of a 10D since 4/03. With great hubris I lord it over all my friends; I'm special, I own a SLR digital camera, and you don't. Then I was watching a football game on Sunday, and Canon was adveritising the 300D. I realized that digital SLR's are now just a consumer item, available to anybody. I'm no longer special and different. How sad. Pretty soon this forum will be overrun with beginning photographers, asking how to use a camera. Maybe we should have a special forum, limited to those of us who preceded the consumer era.

[defordphoto]

Pretty soon? Heh. Just look at some of the thread titles.

They're here...

But, it the long run it should make lenses cheaper for us when Bobbie Sue and Billy Joe are getting cool L lenses for their Kiss cameras. At least that would be one benefit.

Nevertheless, just like there was always high-end film cameras, there will be always be high-end digital cameras. Not to worry.

[KarlJones]

Jim's right. A review of some of the topic titles is enough to send you screaming into the night. But it happens in anything with an element of trend and pop. It just tends to be the most painful at the place where you are. Don't sweat it.

[tannoy]

Relax guys it is just a camera not a way of life.

Perhaps you could take a different angle and choose to enlighten and educate the "ametuers" and increase the prosumer user numbers. This in turn will bring you satisfaction for being humble and helping your fellow photographer and also for bringing critical mass to higher quality cameras and, maybe just maybe, an affordable full frame sensor.

Or you could just be like the star bellied sneeches and remain snobbish, your choice...

Darrin

[defordphoto]

But, grasshopper, they rarely listen and only want to hack their cameras into something they are not.

And they have no sense of humor! LOL! :)

Geeze, people takes things way, WAY too seriously around here. Sheesh.

[tannoy]

Hence the Dr Seuss reference:)

Darrin

[defordphoto]

And the beat goes on...

[Belmondo]

We could turn this forum over to the new DSLR owners and start a new one for L glass owners. The motto could be:

Let's get the L out of there!

Respectfully submitted,
Tom

[defordphoto]

ROOFLE! I love it!

[James01]

tannoy wrote:

Or you could just be like the star bellied sneeches and remain snobbish, your choice...



To funny... Great line.


Though this is a funny thread it reminds me of when computers were my ‘REALM’ and it was only occupied by a small handful of people hacking BBS's and what not. I protested the internet but eventually learned to embrace it. I still wish sometimes that computers were like days of old but that aint gonna happen. So here I have 2 choices: 1) Grab my VIC20 and dial up to a BBS in which I'm totally alone. 2) Surf the net and get paid to do it…. Hmmm ok Option 2 will have to do.

Same goes for Cameras… (though I'm a lot newer in cameras than computers) I remember buying my EOS 620 from a local camera dealer… Try that now and they tell you to go mail order :/

Anyway have fun and don’t look at it so grim… it’s the photographer that takes the pictures not the camera.

[jwkramer]

tannoy wrote:

I remember buying my EOS 620

I miss my 620... it was a fine SLR! (for it's day). :)

[PacAce]

james01 wrote:
...So here I have 2 choices: 1) Grab my VIC20 and dial up to a BBS in which I'm totally alone...


And speaking of the VIC20, I did some "snooping" around in my 10D (i.e. took the lens off, locked the mirror up so I could access the sensors and what-not that's in there) after being motivated by a thread I read here last night and I saw stuff in there that reminds me of what my old VIC20 looked like when I opened up it up. You know, I swear there's a VIC20 operating system in there running my gosh-darn 10D. :D

Sorry, I just couldn't resist the awful temptation. But, for the record, I, for one, welcome all photographer no matter what their skill levels (and no matter what their camera equipment). Heck, I used to be a newbie at one time, too. (And, in some eyes, I still am one :D ) I've seen active members come and go and some just lurking around and speaking up every once in a blue moon, others speaking their minds at every opportunity and then others just keeping a tight lipped about controversial topics. But one thing's for sure, I'm hooked on this forum because there are a lot of useful information here and, yes, I do get thoroughly entertained every once in a while when I read some of the threads that get posted here. :)

[Belmondo]

Maybe this is how the 1D, 1Ds, D30, and D60 owners felt when the 10D buyers started drifting into the forum. Perhaps they were more tolerant because the 10D was at least black.

Maybe this forum should be renamed "Black Canon EOS-D(igital) cameras."



Going back to threads in this forum from a couple years ago, you'll find:

OK...What did I do?????

I must be blind....

Images hidden on disks?

Patience Please.

It's here, now what?

New Convert

digitally serving the client (I was afraid to read this one)

may I join you guys?

Seeking Advice About An Initial Lens for EOS D30 on a Limited Budget

Help for new owners (started by Roger Cavanagh)

Help me pick a bag

Smudge on viewfinder

crw files won't open...

And on, and on. What's my point?

I haven't a clue.

[imago57]

the beauty of it is that those with more patience and time will be of incredible help to the new kids on the block, whom in turn will help someone else in the future. On the other hand, those too snob to lower themselves to the level of those new to the field of digital photography don't have any obbligation to reply to those threads they find offensive in their simplicity. It works just fine for everyone involved.

Can't we just all get along?

Max

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tom,.. you are right on the money,.

I am one of the 10D generation and remember taking quite a brow beating in my first few posts in the EOS forum,.. I remember I even ran crying to the G3 forum because they were nicer! :D Much sympathy was offered!

I had no idea that I was now a member of an "elitist" group???

That's no fun at all!

I for one am having fun interacting with the new wave of 300D owners as they show up. Aside from the odd troll that may creep in.. IMHO the more the merrier! :D

[karusel]

mwinog2777 stop whining and bitching, the n00bs are not at all that bad:
-they make prices drop, due to mass production, you know economy...

on the evil side:

-if they make a good shot they know and you know they were just lucky
-good shots are made as often as... something that is not made often, like, me scoring with a hot chick
-they THINK they are good, you KNOW you are
-you buy L zooms, they consider a $300 lens 'a bit expensive'
-you buy L primes, they don't understand why they have no zoom and are intrigued by the funny price tag
-they'll never impress chicks with their mincy fagg*t $89,99 28-80 lens regardless what camera it's on

:) :) :)

[martcol]

I still think my 10D is way cooler than a Rebel; hey, its Black!

[Longwatcher]

If we are going to do the elitist manly man thing, then
D30, D60 and 10D owners would at least have to have the BG-ED3 to compete in the 1D, 1Ds class since only the Big Ed makes look like you have a proper 35mm camera :)

Then who ever has the biggest white lens wins (large black lenses don't count).

And then you have to have the "have actually made money on my photography" forum followed by the "have actually made enough money from photography to pay for my camera" forum
and the "I have been published" forum.

But all that doesn't beat the final one.
"I have worked with the really big lenses" forum.

If we had that I would never be able to post with all but maybe one or two of you. Speaking as a former USAF imagery analyst who has worked with NRO (you get to guess how big them camera and lenses are - although they are not Canon. 8)

Luckily, this forum is much better then that. I get information when I need it and I get to give out advice and information when I have it (hopefully correct information). I like a few others, I suspect, like providing information to others (it is known as teaching) and if our information is good and valid then that is all that is important. It doesn't bother me much to answer over and over again as long as it is not the same person.

This is probably the only forum I have stuck with (other then weekly checks of Luminous landscapes) for over a year. It is only because this is a friendly forum with very few evil people on it (and they tend to stay off, I note)

Have Fun, take pictures, it is only a camera.

Just my opinions,


BTW: I only compete in the 10D w/BG-ED3 and 70-200/2.8 IS class (other then the really big camera class). I have a 100-400, but it is technically 3/8" shorter then the 70-200/2.8 IS, except when extended. The 70-200 IS is also a much more useful lens with cooler IS capability (that and it is my newest lens) :)

[ohenry]

As being one of the "they", I can only shake my head at the comments of some in this thread. And kudos to those whose sarcasm rang through :)

Although I am a "they", I'm hardly new to SLR cameras having learned on a AE-1 and moved on to a Nikon 8008.

I'll have to be careful to whom I ask questions, lest they belittle me for being such a loser.

[karusel]

Longwatcher, LOL, thanx for going on where I stopped :) :)

[Belmondo]

Although I'm one of the older people in this forum, I'm also one of the more inexperienced members having only jumped back into the SLR(digital) scene a few months ago.

This forum, unlike a couple others I poked around in, has been consistently more helpful, friendlier, and a truly fun place in which to 'hang out.' I feel I've actually made some friends here.

I've yet to be 'flamed' for any question that was deemed 'too dumb,' although a few have taken me on for spelling, grammar, and syntax errors. Another few have indicated occasional distress at some of my wit, which admittedly often falls short of my expectations.

I guess this is analogous to the 'corner bar.' When you come in, you never know who's going to be there, but you know it will be someone you like.

Let's not change the flavor.

And to the Drebel owners, remember these days... Eventually you will be one of the old dogs, and sooner or later a new member is going to ask a question that you think is unworthy of your time or attention. A kindly pat on the head and a gentle shove in the right direction will be an investment in your future as well as repayment for the time the experienced users are devoting to answering your questions right now.

[sheesh]

Tom,

I have neither a d300 or a 10d, but I frequent the forum for the wealth of knowledge that can be found here. I hope to someday own a dslr and to badger you unmercifully with questions about how to turn it on and take a picture. Then, when I am an 'old dog' I hope that I am able to respond to such innocent questions without looking down my nose and snickering with my similarly-socially-challenged friends in 'the corner bar'. Finally, when someone calls me out for my sarcasm I hope I can resond with something more adult than 'can't you take a joke?'

[tannoy]

I am not certain, but I think Tom is not being seriously sarcastic but tongue and cheek, I might cut him some slack on this thread.

Cheers,

Darrin

[MrKickalot]

mwinog2777 wrote:
Yesterday was my saddest day, ever. I've been the proud owner of a 10D since 4/03. With great hubris I lord it over all my friends; I'm special, I own a SLR digital camera, and you don't. Then I was watching a football game on Sunday, and Canon was adveritising the 300D. I realized that digital SLR's are now just a consumer item, available to anybody. I'm no longer special and different. How sad. Pretty soon this forum will be overrun with beginning photographers, asking how to use a camera. Maybe we should have a special forum, limited to those of us who preceded the consumer era.

So you just picked up a camera and instantly were a pro?? We all are/were beginners at some point in life, and I would bet that all of you that are "good at this" have asked questions of people who are better then you were!! This gives more people like myself to get into this more!! When I bought my film camera I wanted to learn how to take good pictures!! I soon found out that having two kids and a house payment I wouldn't afford to "play" with the camera, film was too expensive!! I've taken almost 1500 pictures since I got my Rebel 3 weeks ago and have learned TONS!! And a lot of that I owe to the people on here generous enough to help the noobie!!

As for the Rebel vs. 10D thing, here the quote I got from a review of Canon 70-200/2.8 vs. Sigma 70-200/2.8. He is a professional nauture photographer. His last lines of the artical were "Photography is about taking great pictures, and it is the ability of the person behind the camera that makes great things happen! Yes, the right equipment is important, but don't buy expensive equipment just because it will make you look like a pro ... it is more important to work on your skills, not on your look."

[Belmondo]

sheesh wrote:
Tom,

I have neither a d300 or a 10d, but I frequent the forum for the wealth of knowledge that can be found here. I hope to someday own a dslr and to badger you unmercifully with questions about how to turn it on and take a picture. Then, when I am an 'old dog' I hope that I am able to respond to such innocent questions without looking down my nose and snickering with my similarly-socially-challenged friends in 'the corner bar'. Finally, when someone calls me out for my sarcasm I hope I can resond with something more adult than 'can't you take a joke?'

tannoy wrote:
I am not certain, but I think Tom is not being seriously sarcastic but tongue and cheek, I might cut him some slack on this thread.

Cheers,

Darrin


Okay. I admit I wasn't being sarcastic. I wasn't even being tongue-in-cheek. I guess I was just being too darned serious for the general tenor of the thread. Read it again, but this time, imagine me wearing a clown suit as I write it. Maybe that will help. (Don’t forget the red rubber nose!)

For the record: I do not hang out in corner bars; that was a euphemism for this forum. We don't have corner bars where I live, and even if we did, I wouldn't hang out in one. (But if I did, I wouldn’t do it for the purpose of being with ‘similarly-socially-challenged’ people. I would use the opportunity to drink. Right now I could use one.)

I really do believe everyone here is a friend --- even those people (god forbid) that don't yet own a DSLR. Even you. Heck, especially you.

From the standpoint of experience and knowledge, I am definitely not one of the ‘good old boys.’ Again for the record: I am old, and in a few irrelevant respects, possibly even good. Sadly, I’m one of the people that still have trouble with much of the esoteric terminology that gets bandied about so freely in these threads by the more experienced souls. In many areas, I’m not just behind the curve, I’m floundering. AND, I still take crappy pictures, so I don’t lord my experience over anyone.

I really don’t understand what I said to elicit your response(s). I am very much in favor of new (and not-quite-yet) users asking their questions. They’re valuable to the future of the board, and they deserve considered, polite responses to those questions.

Can I be any clearer than that?

[sjprg]

Always remember! The first hundred years are the hardest. After that we have it made.
Paul

[CyberDyneSystems]

It is amazing how type written notions can be interpreted in soo many ways :D

Folks,. if we are going to circle the wagons and lynch anyone.. the obvious threat is this....

Ohenry wrote
Although I am a "they", I'm hardly new to SLR cameras having learned on a AE-1 and moved on to a Nikon 8008.


I mean folks,..we have one of them in our midst,. and he doesn't even have the forsight to hide his ..icky-Nikon-ness... !!!!!!!!!!!

We need to band together as brothers and expell the blasphemer!
ROFLMAO :D

//and if ANYONE take this seriously.... never mind, I'm grabbing a drink regardless!

[Canuck]

RFMSports wrote:
Pretty soon? Heh. Just look at some of the thread titles.

They're here...

But, it the long run it should make lenses cheaper for us when Bobbie Sue and Billy Joe are getting cool L lenses for their Kiss cameras. At least that would be one benefit.

Nevertheless, just like there was always high-end film cameras, there will be always be high-end digital cameras. Not to worry.

Is that to say we who have 10Ds now will have to jump to the D1S to keep the beginners away? I have nothing against beginners, but is is rather annoying having absolutely no clue about (D)SLRs and jumping head first into it and then asking questions that you should know the answer to going into it, the common knowledge stuff.

A price reduction on L glass, that I'm all for and know all of us can benefit from it. Although truth be told, it can flood the market if Joe off the street who has the cash gets a 10D and some L glass and starts posting the pics. It kinda takes the fun out of it. It is cool being a part of an elite group of people and that is the main attraction now that I can actually take insanely good pics! Although, sometime the attention I get from the camera I don't like. If I'm in a lot of other photogs then it's cool or if someone is genuinely interested; but like earlier today in Colchester, I was minding my own business taking some pics of St Boltoph's Priory ruins, I was encountered by some really drunk people. I was just taking pics for myself and to sent to friends in the US and they were really getting on my nerves. These people were really obnoxious! It was built around 1100 and sacked in the seige of Colchester, 1648 and is in ruins as I saw. I cut that photo op short, and returned to the main part of the city. Then it was on to Colchester Castle. This site has about 2000 years of history of it! It was originally a temple. It was later sacked by Boudicca, and the town and castle were totally destroyed. The Castle that stands today on top of what was the temple is Norman from 1076. That's the extremely compressed version. If anyone is interested, I can do the whole story. It is long, but very interesting.

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[Canuck]

karusel wrote:
mwinog2777 stop whining and bitching, the n00bs are not at all that bad:
-they make prices drop, due to mass production, you know economy...

on the evil side:

-if they make a good shot they know and you know they were just lucky
-good shots are made as often as... something that is not made often, like, me scoring with a hot chick
-they THINK they are good, you KNOW you are
-you buy L zooms, they consider a $300 lens 'a bit expensive'
-you buy L primes, they don't understand why they have no zoom and are intrigued by the funny price tag
-they'll never impress chicks with their mincy fagg*t $89,99 28-80 lens regardless what camera it's on

:) :) :)

Holy crap that is funny, the bit about the $89.99 28-80 lens! I can and others can probably vouch for this that like, I found at many locations, that a monster lens can make all the difference. I call it a magnet. One of my British friends, upon seeing the 120-300 F2.8 lens I have, asked if I'd like some digital camera with the lens?
It was about a good minute or two as he looke don in awe at it on the 10D. I handed it to hime and he said that is one hell of a (edit) camera set-up! I said that it wwas and that he was holding over $4500 in his hands. I need not mention the magnet effect again at Heathrow, on the last flight of Concorde. There is one real problem, I'm not an extrovert kind of person so it makes it really hard for me. It makes it a little easier like when I found another person shooting w/ a 10D and I think the Canon 100-400L lens and had some common ground. We chatted about the 10D and compared pics. The main difference was that he was shooting without Big Ed. I highly reccommended it. The rest is history as they say.

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[ohenry]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
It is amazing how type written notions can be interpreted in soo many ways :D

Folks,. if we are going to circle the wagons and lynch anyone.. the obvious threat is this....

Ohenry wrote
Although I am a "they", I'm hardly new to SLR cameras having learned on a AE-1 and moved on to a Nikon 8008.


I mean folks,..we have one of them in our midst,. and he doesn't even have the forsight to hide his ..icky-Nikon-ness... !!!!!!!!!!!

We need to band together as brothers and expell the blasphemer!
ROFLMAO :D

//and if ANYONE take this seriously.... never mind, I'm grabbing a drink regardless!



ahhhh, but CDS...I did trade in that blasphemous other product in on a Canon :)

[Belmondo]

What’s really scary about some of these guys is that according to them, I’m supposed to be the one lacking a sense of humor. ROFTHO**

(**Rolling On Floor Tearing Hair Out)

Anyway, I’ve come up with a list of standard answers for questions they ask that the ‘power users’ deign beneath their dignity to respond to. We can write them out completely, or just post them once and refer to them by number thereafter. I invite other suggestions.

1. That’s already been answered, you imbecile. Use the search engine at the top of the page.
2. Look at page XX of your user’s manual, moron.
3. You’re kidding, right? Was that really a serious question?
4. You’re new around here, aren’t you?
5. Maybe you should go back to the G1 forum for a while. You’re not really one of us yet.
6. Is this your first real camera?
7. I’m really sorry about your focusing issues, but I’m too busy taking pictures of rulers to discuss your problems right now. I suggest you send the camera back to Canon with all your lenses and have them tested.
8. Set the mode dial to the little green box. Turn the camera on. Point it in the general direction of the subject you’re shooting. Press the button. If it doesn’t work, try sending the camera back and see if you can get your money refunded.
9. Maybe you forgot to put film in. ROFLMAO!!
10. It’s a 10D, not a D10. Learn its proper name. (var.: ‘It’s a Canon, not a Cannon. Learn its proper name.)
11. Don’t they require literacy tests for DSLR buyers?

And so on.

[Canuck]

belmondo wrote:
What’s really scary about some of these guys is that according to them, I’m supposed to be the one lacking a sense of humor. ROFTHO**

(**Rolling On Floor Tearing Hair Out)

Anyway, I’ve come up with a list of standard answers for questions they ask that the ‘power users’ deign beneath their dignity to respond to. We can write them out completely, or just post them once and refer to them by number thereafter. I invite other suggestions.

1. That’s already been answered, you imbecile. Use the search engine at the top of the page.
2. Look at page XX of your user’s manual, moron.
3. You’re kidding, right? Was that really a serious question?
4. You’re new around here, aren’t you?
5. Maybe you should go back to the G1 forum for a while. You’re not really one of us yet.
6. Is this your first real camera?
7. I’m really sorry about your focusing issues, but I’m too busy taking pictures of rulers to discuss your problems right now. I suggest you send the camera back to Canon with all your lenses and have them tested.
8. Set the mode dial to the little green box. Turn the camera on. Point it in the general direction of the subject you’re shooting. Press the button. If it doesn’t work, try sending the camera back and see if you can get your money refunded.
9. Maybe you forgot to put film in. ROFLMAO!!
10. It’s a 10D, not a D10. Learn its proper name. (var.: ‘It’s a Canon, not a Cannon. Learn its proper name.)
11. Don’t they require literacy tests for DSLR buyers?

And so on.


Tom,
I can see a new topic, on the funny side!

I have to agree, RTFM (Read The Flipping Manual) before inserting batteries and turning on, especially if it is your first 'real camera'!

Here's another idea or few on the lighter side:
"I'm too busy playing with astrophotography and several thousand dollar lenses finding out what this camera is really capable of." Enter Canon L glass, or Sigma EX series.

I'm out enjoying/learning how/using it works and does it very well, especially with expensive glass.

Ok, seriously, I realise that people have valid questions, and just cuz a neophite isn't patient enough to RTFM, that is no excuse. Clarification is one thing, but like the ones explained in Canon EOS 10D/300D manual, that can be extrememly frustrating.

Haven't we beaten an already long dead horse?

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tom,

# 10!!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO! :D

but it's more like,.

"Since Canon doesnt have any D10 in their line-up.

Seems that about ½ the worlds population cant get this name right."

"NO...................you should buy a 10D "

"I'm not sure what a D10 is but with the 10D you'll need either a hack/edited version of the Adobe Camera Raw Plug-in or the newest version which is supposed to support the 10D or D10 as you like to call it. "

"Do you mean 10D? I have not heard of a D10... "




And as allways, the sole of tact and diplomacy,.. your friend and mine,. :D

.....the man who needs the optional trailer to help carry his soft spoken nature.... (o-kay and his knowledge base)


Red, did you get the D10, or the 10d?

---Bob Gross---


There are NO Canon D10 cameras in Brooklyn!

On the other hand, you might find a lot of Canon 10D cameras.

---Bob Gross---

Are you trying to buy the D10 or the 10D?

---Bob Gross---

Is it the D10, or the 10d?

---Bob Gross---

If you aren't sure which camera you have, then advice gets very complicated.

---Bob Gross---



I'm gonna wet myself........ :D

....then of course there was this one....

I'm debating whether to purchase the Nikon 100D or the Canon D10.


DOH!

Double DD Damage!
ROFL

//for the record,. I have NEVER taken the time to actually correct someone on this typo! :D :D

[Belmondo]

Don't think I didn't have Bob in mind when I wrote a couple of those. He's a treasure, and I hope to meet him in person some day.

Thanks for all your research!

Tom

[KarlJones]

How about a little equal time here: forget about taking the easy way out and chastising those who have put in the effort, sweat and as someone else put it, the patience and time to become competent.

First, there’s nothing wrong (inherently) with being a Newbie. Being a Newbie is not a crime. Nor is being uninformed, or just simply not knowing . At the same time, being a Newbie, like ignorance, shouldn’t be an absolute excuse. So my question is this: does the Newbie hold any responsibility beyond being ignorant? Certainly they could still learn if there were no forums. Even if it were only they and their camera, they could still progress further by infusing some of their own effort than if they just stood there doing nothing… especially if all the while their owner’s manuals are still wrapped in cellophane.

[CyberDyneSystems]

KarlJones wrote:
How about a little equal time here: forget about taking the easy way out and chastising those who have put in the effort, sweat and as someone else put it, the patience and time to become competent.

First, there’s nothing wrong (inherently) with being a Newbie. Being a Newbie is not a crime. Nor is being uninformed, or just simply not knowing . At the same time, being a Newbie, like ignorance, shouldn’t be an absolute excuse. So my question is this: does the Newbie hold any responsibility beyond being ignorant? Certainly they could still learn if there were no forums. Even if it were only they and their camera, they could still progress further by infusing some of their own effort than if they just stood there doing nothing… especially if all the while their owner’s manuals are still wrapped in cellophane.



Good point KarlJones.

I would not argue with any of your statement or questions.

But there is just one matter that disturbs me about the question posed, and the inherent nature of being one of those who has "put in the effort, sweat and as someone else put it, the patience and time to become competent" who frequents a forum such as this.

/scratches head

The matter that dumbfounds me is this...

Why then frequent the forum if it is too much burden to answer the questions?

And more to the point,.. why respond to the specific question at all if the question does not intrigue the mentor enough to post a message that would offer some guidance?

It just seems a self defeating course of action to log onto a forum that is essentally here to help newcomers find the answers they need, and then to resent the question.

Sure I can see running out of patience on the repeat questions.. so don't answer the ones that don't intrigue you.

Have you noticed how many newcomers are eager to answer the mundane questions, and help out in the basics that our best experts are not needed for there wisdom to answer?

At first I only answered questions related to Computers as I had been doing that for years.... if I grow board of posting a link to a good deal on Falsh Memory.. I don't need to sweat it as there are six others who have just bought flash cards at good privces who can answer that question this week.

Likewise... if a photo posted in the share forum holds no interest to you.. then don't reply. Even in Critque corner,.. we don't need to love all the posted images,. but to reply just by saying.. "it doesn't work" is not worth the reply at all,. we need to say why it deosn't work. Otherwise we can simply not post.

(o-kay I sound like my Grandmother :D "if you don't have something nice to say...." )

Anyway,. I'm not saying I disagree with you about responsibilty, but I just wonder why any of us let it get to us, when we are volunteering to be here and share what we know.. presumably because we enjoy it.

[Belmondo]

Karl:
I'm very sorry, but you're not allowed to get serious on this thread. I did, and got hammered.

You're points are valid, of course.

Just as a personal preference, however, I would still prefer that a newby ask a dumb question than to ever feel he/she was unwelcome in the forum. (I realize I'm edging dangerously close to being serious again.)

By the way, does anyone know where the B&W setting is on my D10?

Tom

[ilya]

First - I have nothing smart to say here.

Though I really really want to think of something.

This is one of those threads that really makes it fun to hang out here.

Soooo much material, so little time!!!

Ok, think think think, //bangs head with fist//
//sips some wine// //scratches head//

Ok got one - there are several different kind of nubies?
Good nubies
Bad nubies
Nubies that are just passing through town

I'm one, kind of, still -- hopefully good.

I try to be polite...respect my elders (TOM!) .... Listen and learn ... Try to be helpful within my feeble abilities ... Don't ask too many stupid questions.

Though it sounds like that's the issue - if you haven't taken the time to read the manual, learn to spell 10D, and do not show respect, then its hard to get respect.

Maybe we should have FAQs for how to be a good nubie.

That's what we mean, right? Its not cause a bunch of people got a silver colored camera? Say it ain't so, we just had a Third Reich thread about G-enocide ... P&S-emitism and DSLR-ian race :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

ilya wrote:

....That's what we mean, right? Its not cause a bunch of people got a silver colored camera?

Say it ain't so, we just had a Third Reich thread about G-enocide ... P&S-emitism and DSLR-ian race :D



Zoiks she's on to us!

Quick! Hide the stockpiled ammo and white sheets!

[ilya]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
ilya wrote:

....That's what we mean, right? Its not cause a bunch of people got a silver colored camera?

Say it ain't so, we just had a Third Reich thread about G-enocide ... P&S-emitism and DSLR-ian race :D



Zoiks she's on to us!

Quick! Hide the stockpiled ammo and white sheets!

Er, ehem ... -- "He's" on to us.

[defordphoto]

ilya wrote:
CyberDyneSystems wrote:
ilya wrote:

....That's what we mean, right? Its not cause a bunch of people got a silver colored camera?

Say it ain't so, we just had a Third Reich thread about G-enocide ... P&S-emitism and DSLR-ian race :D



Zoiks she's on to us!

Quick! Hide the stockpiled ammo and white sheets!

Er, ehem ... -- "He's" on to us.

And now "he" knows the secret code!

[Belmondo]

ilya wrote:
Er, ehem ... -- "He's" on to us.

You could have cleared this up in your earlier post if you had referred to scratching something other than your head.

Please be more careful in the future. Try to make your posts 'gender specific.'

Tom

[PacAce]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:

//for the record,. I have NEVER taken the time to actually correct someone on this typo! :D :D


CDS, I would say that you've more than made up for that deficiency many times over! :D

[Canuck]

ilya wrote:


Ok, think think think, //bangs head with fist//
//sips some wine// //scratches head//

Ok got one - there are several different kind of nubies?
Good nubies
Bad nubies
Nubies that are just passing through town

Though it sounds like that's the issue - if you haven't taken the time to read the manual, learn to spell 10D, and do not show respect, then its hard to get respect.

Maybe we should have FAQs for how to be a good nubie.

That's what we mean, right? Its not cause a bunch of people got a silver colored camera? Say it ain't so, we just had a Third Reich thread about G-enocide ... P&S-emitism and DSLR-ian race :D





Oh man, where to start??

First, you forgot bang head on desk/wall it is a great stress relief! You need proper posh wine too to sip, or take a bug slug. They say red wind is good to clean ur arteries with regular moderated use.

Next, you forgot FNGs (Flipping New Guys/Gals) they are so new that they wonder what SLR stands for, much less have a clue you have to turn it on. Forget about the need for batteries, this is way past their comprehension.

The next point you made what exactly what I was getting at and said that the longwinded way.

FAQs for a newbie, now there is a good idea. Let us start that topic...

What do you have against silver cameras? > My redundant 35mm > Canon EOS 50E is silver on top!

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[CyberDyneSystems]

belmondo wrote:
ilya wrote:
Er, ehem ... -- "He's" on to us.

You could have cleared this up in your earlier post if you had referred to scratching something other than your head.

Please be more careful in the future. Try to make your posts 'gender specific.'

Tom

Hmmm exactly.. I read "sipping wine" not downing a brew...

My mistake. :D :D :D :D

[ilya]

Soooo what was it? Sipping the wine? The smily faces? My forum decorum? Help me out here, am I really effeminate or is it just the name? Do I HAVE TO to go see Bob Gross for manly-man lessons???

[Belmondo]

Actually, it was the correct spelling, proper use of grammar, and complete lack of guttural sound effects.

You’ll improve.

[PacAce]

BTW, anybody take any good pictures lately? I've been so busy reading the forum and the every growing threads that I haven't touched my 10D in over 2 weeks! :( OK, I lied, I did have it out of the bag for a minute last night so that I could take the battery out and recharge it.

[gsmx2]

And now it is my saddest day ever.

Just last month I had my little Canon stolen out of my car and was thrilled and excited when my wife suggested (almost demanded) that I get the Canon Digital Rebel. It's much more than we should have purchased, but we still had two weeks of vacation, so we were going to buy something, so might as well get the best we could somewhat afford.

And when we finally located one, not an easy task on a Sunday in Kalamazoo, I fell in love with it IMMEDIATELY out of the box....oh to have the feel of a REAL CAMERA in my hand again...with digital capabilities. I was in HEAVEN.

Now I wonder into this thread and see that I might as well have purchased a Kodak Easy Shot system ... I don't have a REAL CAMERA.

Oh, sad sad sad days.

gsm x2

[Belmondo]

pacace wrote:
BTW, anybody take any good pictures lately? I've been so busy reading the forum and the every growing threads that I haven't touched my 10D in over 2 weeks! :( OK, I lied, I did have it out of the bag for a minute last night so that I could take the battery out and recharge it.


Actually, I took my 10D for a walk tonight, but the sun was just too low to get anything interesting. We are surrounded on three sides by mountains (the tallest ones are to the west), so everything was in shade. I had the new lens on (70-200 f/2.8L IS) and got the 'thumbs up' from a couple of neighbors, but no pictures.

Does that count?

[ilya]

[/quote]

Hmmm exactly.. I read "sipping wine" not downing a brew...

My mistake. :D :D :D :D
[/quote]

You may be forgiven if you hand over your big new Sigma. That's the sure-fire way of proving manhood, I need a big man's lens now // feel like on shaky ground // whole world watching and wondering // :D

[Belmondo]

gsmx2 wrote:Now I wonder into this thread and see that I might as well have purchased a Kodak Easy Shot system ... I don't have a REAL CAMERA.

Okay, here's what you do:
1. Don't feel bad. You have a really great camera, but we're not supposed to say so because it's silver.
2. Tell everyone that knows anything about it that you've written a programming hack that turns it into a 1Ds. (In this case, it's okay to lie.)
3. Take some 'killer' pictures on your vacation and post them so we can all enjoy them too. Make us guess what kind of camera you used. We won't be able to tell the difference.
4. Try not to laugh and point at those of use who spent $500 more than you did for cameras that aren't any better for your purposes than the one you bought.
5. Stay in touch with the 'group' and tell us what you're doing with your Rebel.

Welcome aboard.

Tom

[ilya]

belmondo wrote:
Actually, it was the correct spelling, proper use of grammar, and complete lack of guttural sound effects.

You’ll improve.


My wife would disagree with that assessment. (further proof of manhood, yes a wife. ) :D

[mwinog2777]

belmondo wrote:
gsmx2 wrote:Now I wonder into this thread and see that I might as well have purchased a Kodak Easy Shot system ... I don't have a REAL CAMERA.

Okay, here's what you do:
1. Don't feel bad. You have a really great camera, but we're not supposed to say so because it's silver.
2. Tell everyone that knows anything about it that you've written a programming hack that turns it into a 1Ds. (In this case, it's okay to lie.)
3. Take some 'killer' pictures on your vacation and post them so we can all enjoy them too. Make us guess what kind of camera you used. We won't be able to tell the difference.
4. Try not to laugh and point at those of use who spent $500 more than you did for cameras that aren't any better for your purposes than the one you bought.
5. Stay in touch with the 'group' and tell us what you're doing with your Rebel.

Welcome aboard.

Tom



I don't agree with Belmondo. gsmx2 is simply trying to ingratiate himself with us true afficionados, acting meek and humble. But, there remains this unmistable chasm in SLR digital photography. Those of us why plied the craft when it was hard, and those who got on the bandwagon only after it became a consumer item. The chasm is wide and permanent, and can't be crossed. One must ask why did gsmx2 wait until the consumer era to go SLR? Its a matter of character and pride. Reminds me of the Marine motto: "The few, the proud". We were there, we were there at the beginning; "they" can't take that away from us.

I will email Pekka about this, and try to get a seperate forum for the consumers.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Don't sweat it ilya,..

No one knows my gender in the forums I frequent...

It is one of the hazards of being on line and using a name other than "Neo" or "Viper"

P.S.... My other online name is CanDySweet-4u

lol

[CyberDyneSystems]

What if we make an elite forum that you can only gain entry to based on your post count???


:eyes :p

//insert twiddlingthumbsbecauseIamallalonesmiley here.....

[Belmondo]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
What if we make an elite forum that you can only gain entry to based on your post count???


Too simple, and potentially unfair. Using your system, unqualified, but long-winded people (such as myself) could actually qualify. Unacceptable.

We need a couple more tests to determine if someone is serious enough for this forum:

1. Color of camera....black okay, silver, no good.
2. Price of camera...$1499 okay, $999, no good.
3. Necessary attributes of camera....must have mirror lockup.
4. Cameras with alpha-numeric names (such as 10D, D60, D30, 1D, and 1Ds)....okay. Cameras with actual names (such as Rebel).....no good.
5. Minimum term of ownership....at least as long as mwinog2777.... okay. Anything less....no good.
6. Quality of photographs, knowledge, experience, enthusiasm, eagerness to learn...irrelevant.

Anyone not meeting the first five criteria will be permanently banished to the proposed 'Consumer SLR Forum.'

Guess I’ll see you there.

[OhioRick]

Crap!! I'd be eliminated at #1.
The only black Canon I ever had was the A-1. My FT-B ( which was my first SLR, and was manual-everything ) was silver. My AE-1 was silver. And now the D-Rebel is silver.

[KarlJones]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
Good point KarlJones.

I would not argue with any of your statement or questions.

But there is just one matter that disturbs me about the question posed, and the inherent nature of being one of those who has "put in the effort, sweat and as someone else put it, the patience and time to become competent" who frequents a forum such as this.

The matter that dumbfounds me is this... Why then frequent the forum if it is too much burden to answer the questions?
I’d submit that different folks have different purposes for using the forum. The very existence of lurkers is testament to that. Bystanding viewers who are not a direct party to the discussion can still benefit greatly from the information that’s circulated in the answers and discussions. They have the ability to further research on their own and even learn to draw their own conclusions. I think a person could peruse the search feature and probably find many questions without ever putting the question to post. But to clarify my contention, realize that I look at the forum as being more for discussion, than hard lesson plans. It’s real value comes in a great many forms. Not just questions and answers.
And more to the point,.. why respond to the specific question at all if the question does not intrigue the mentor enough to post a message that would offer some guidance?
That’s a little harder to pinpoint. But I’ll say that I’ve seen questions so vague and ill conceived and presented that the best of intentions to guide the plebes is futile. That itself is what makes such questions unintriguing. But to be fair, I have no problem with the notion that some find the clueless ness in some as empowering to themselves.
It just seems a self defeating course of action to log onto a forum that is essentally here to help newcomers find the answers they need, and then to resent the question.
I could agree with that if the sole intent for anyone visiting the forum were to be either a teacher or a student. I may be wrong, but my belief is that this forum is only essentially here to help newcomers because that’s what it has become. When I first came upon the forum by way of Pekka’s early G1 gallery, it wasn’t showing signs of being “your one-stop source for the beginner.” In fact, had it not been for the considerable experience I already had, I might have just passed on it altogether. For me, those early topics of discussion, techniques and examples raised and set the bar for us to get out and see what is possible.
Sure I can see running out of patience on the repeat questions.. so don't answer the ones that don't intrigue you.
Now you know that there’s been no shortage of mundane and repeat questions that have gone ignored and unanswered, so it’s not that any isn’t following that advice. Hopefully, the deafening silence in those instances is enough to provoke more thought before putting the question out there. If so, then we’ve accomplished something. The answer and the delivery doesn’t always have to be coated in sugar and honey. We all know that. Better questions illicit better answers. Otherwise, it isn’t the end of the world if an answer has a splash of “in your face” in it.
Have you noticed how many newcomers are eager to answer the mundane questions, and help out in the basics that our best experts are not needed for there wisdom to answer?
Yes, it happens is just about every forum for every topic imaginable. But that’s just as well for the mundane questions are often better addressed by those closer to the skill level being discussed. For example, a great many topics do revolve around very basic elements. Should these basics have been embraced at some point earlier on? That’s a separate and probably lengthy debate by itself. But the RTFM-related questions don’t typically require the more seasoned members attention. That would be counter-productive. Is it not mundane to mull over the virtues of RAW vs JPEG when ‘White Balance’ and ‘Exposure’ and ‘Histogram’ are only words? That goes back to support why some topics do go unanswered. You and I both know that it isn’t because no one knows the answer.
Anyway,. I'm not saying I disagree with you about responsibilty, but I just wonder why any of us let it get to us, when we are volunteering to be here and share what we know.. presumably because we enjoy it.

Oh I understand your points and you've reminded me of a few things I'll try to take to heart. The least I can do, you know.

[KarlJones]

belmondo wrote:
Karl:
I'm very sorry, but you're not allowed to get serious on this thread. I did, and got hammered.

You're points are valid, of course.

Just as a personal preference, however, I would still prefer that a newby ask a dumb question than to ever feel he/she was unwelcome in the forum. (I realize I'm edging dangerously close to being serious again.)
Thanks Tom. In my experience, you take your lumps where you can get ‘em. This place is as good as any since I genuinely enjoy everybody here. Like you, I know that not too deep down under my occasionally laced-with-vinegar reply that I’d muster the extra energy to help someone along rather than see them simply walk away. Of course we’d have to exclude that recent chap who berated us because he never got his question answered in less than six hours. Or some such to that effect.

[RichardtheSane]

I would like to say this, and anyone else can join in.

My DSLR is Black, and I do not feel threatened by the new fangled silver ones (even if they have a firmware hack)
There, I said it. I'm cured! (of that, at least, I still have L addiction) :D

Now here's another idea for a forum, and it would have to be a secret forum that only open for two hours on a thursday night. You MUST only use your first name when logging in.
Threatened DSLR Owners Anonymous
Even 300D owners are welcome, as some damn fool was trying to undermine the superior nature of DSLR's by suggesting a P&S could be as good recently.
:D

[karusel]

Now that you've mentioned it, while were at new sections suggestions, there has to be an 'L-addicts anonymous' section... :D

[defordphoto]

In all seriousness and not meaning to separate the masses, but I think we should have the following forums:

1D/1Ds

D30/D60/10D

Rebel

Or:

Canon SLR Pro

Canon SLR SemiPro

Canon SLR Amateur

The reason being is that for the most part peoples heads are in a different spot when it come to ownership of these totally different cameras and mixing total professionals, semi-pros and amateurs into the same room is causing a bit of a stir. The results have been pretty obvious.

[ilya]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
Don't sweat it ilya,..

No one knows my gender in the forums I frequent...

It is one of the hazards of being on line and using a name other than "Neo" or "Viper"

P.S.... My other online name is CanDySweet-4u

lol

Now that's just gay (as in happy) :D

[karusel]

Yea, that's super gay... :D Anyways, RFM I think this wouldn't work like this... beginners giving advice to beginners? So they get crappy advice and go post in the PRO section. Nah...

Surely enuff there is a section missing - Lens. :) Maybe there could also be a 'pro corner' for those with, say, at least 5 years of experience.

[RichardtheSane]

karusel wrote:
Now that you've mentioned it, while were at new sections suggestions, there has to be an 'L-addicts anonymous' section... :D

hmmmm how about 'ellglass anonymous' - a nice discreet name (say it to yourself :D )

[defordphoto]

karusel wrote:
Yea, that's super gay... :D Anyways, RFM I think this wouldn't work like this... beginners giving advice to beginners? So they get crappy advice and go post in the PRO section. Nah...

Surely enuff there is a section missing - Lens. :) Maybe there could also be a 'pro corner' for those with, say, at least 5 years of experience.

Actually it works quite well over at Miranda. Not that we need to clone what he's done over there. Just tossing out ideas. As you have seen many times the mix here turns to conflict.

[PacAce]

OhioRick wrote:
Crap!! I'd be eliminated at #1.
The only black Canon I ever had was the A-1. My FT-B ( which was my first SLR, and was manual-everything ) was silver. My AE-1 was silver. And now the D-Rebel is silver.



I beg to differ. The FT-B and the AE-1 were black (body) with silver trims (bottom and top). I have (had) both of these cameras and I don't want you labeling me as a "silver" person! :(

:D

Actually, I think they were more like brushed aluminum (that's aluminium to all you foreigners) than silver.

BTW, does anybody know what the trim color of the Elan II is? I know it's not silver. Maybe more like brushed gold? Now that color along with a name like Digital Elan (instead of Digital Rebel) would probably have done more for it's image. Yes, no?

[Belmondo]

RFMSports wrote:
In all seriousness and not meaning to separate the masses, but I think we should have the following forums:
1D/1Ds
D30/D60/10D
Rebel
Or:
Canon SLR Pro
Canon SLR SemiPro
Canon SLR Amateur

Jim:
I see where you're going with this, and to an extent, it makes some sense. The problem is, if you break it down by hardware, especially in the manner you propose, it infers that it you haven’t spent enough money on your camera, you’re not qualified to rub elbows with those that did. Moreover, assuming that newer users are the ones buying the less expensive cameras (not always the case), you're separating the people that really need the most help from those best able to give it. There’s enough common ground between all Canon DSLR’s that it shouldn’t be necessary to split them into sub-groups. We all use the same lenses (with just two exceptions), principles of photography, and basic camera functions. If people take reasonable care to make their threads ‘model specific’ in the title when appropriate, they’re easy enough to ignore if there’s no interest.

As far as breaking down the users by level of experience, that makes somewhat more sense, but with one caveat: only new users should have a forum entirely their own for the posting of their most basic questions; perhaps even an FAQ area for them to refer to. Beyond that, I don’t believe in caste systems as being an answer to anything. They actually tend to be divisive and run counter to the general spirit upon which an open bulletin board is conceived and operated.

Using the three categories you propose, I expect I really belong in the bottom tier. I’m an amateur in every sense of the term. No, make that rank amateur. By rights, I should not be on the same board as you, CDS, and others. Yet it seems that every time I log on, I learn something valuable, so I choose to hang out with the people that know more than I do. As long as you and others put up with me, I hope to continue to learning and eventually become more on a par with you.

Continuing this line of reason…..Pros are not gods. They are just people who’ve chosen to make money with their photography, and among those professionals, there is a vast range of talent and ability. It’s also possible that there are serious amateurs who have more technical knowledge and artistry than many working professionals, but in a system like you propose, they would be isolated from each other by a label.

I think all this discussion puts us on thin ice. Clearly, some members are disenchanted with things the way they’re going, and maybe the answer is to give first-time SLR users a place to go where they can get their more basic questions answered. Beyond that, we really need to be careful not to fragment the group. There’s real, honest-to-goodness synergy going on here, and to kill the spirit by categorizing people, either by expertise or by hardware, can only be harmful.

I could go on, but think this is a good point at which to stop this tirade.

Thanks for listening.

Tom

[PacAce]

RFMSports wrote:
In all seriousness and not meaning to separate the masses, but I think we should have the following forums:

1D/1Ds

D30/D60/10D

Rebel

Or:

Canon SLR Pro

Canon SLR SemiPro

Canon SLR Amateur

The reason being is that for the most part peoples heads are in a different spot when it come to ownership of these totally different cameras and mixing total professionals, semi-pros and amateurs into the same room is causing a bit of a stir. The results have been pretty obvious.

A section just for the pros (Canon Pro) while keeping everything else the same might work. However, how do you keep the non-pros from posting on the pro forum. If I, being a non pro, have a question a pro would most like have an answer to, I would be prone to post the question on the pro forum instead of on the "amateur" forum. Will that be forbidden or allowed? If allowed, where do you draw the line on the type of questions that can be asked? Etc., etc.

[Belmondo]

pacace wrote:A section just for the pros (Canon Pro) while keeping everything else the same might work. However, how do you keep the non-pros from posting on the pro forum. If I, being a non pro, have a question a pro would most like have an answer to, I would be prone to post the question on the pro forum instead of on the "amateur" forum. Will that be forbidden or allowed? If allowed, where do you draw the line on the type of questions that can be asked? Etc., etc.


I agree with your premise, but not your conclusion. I think the line is much less blurred between brand new users and amateurs than it is between amateurs and professionals. There are serious hobbyists with professional-level skills and equipment....they're just not doing it for money. By the proposed definitions, they belong in the amateur group. That doesn't work in my mind.

Tom

[CyberDyneSystems]

As far as actual discussion of altering the forum sections, First I would merge the "G" sections into one "G" series forum.

I would leave the EOS/SLR section as one section... any camera that will take the same accesories/flashes/and lenses means very common ground for a lot of discussion...

A "pro" section seems a good idea to hopefully discuss things beyond gear specific issues.. and thus I would make sure the pro section had no mention of gear in its title...


But the one section I would want to add is a "getting started" section. Perhaps a section like this with basic (non gear specific) FAQs would help. And then a FAQ in the other sections that are gear specific?

[Belmondo]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
As far as actual discussion of altering the forum sections, First I would merge the "G" sections into one "G" series forum.

This has been proposed before, as recently as a month ago, and seems a 'no-brainer' to me.

I would leave the EOS/SLR section as one section... any camera that will take the same accesories/flashes/and lenses means very common ground for a lot of discussion...

We agree on this, also.

A "pro" section seems a good idea to hopefully discuss things beyond gear specific issues.. and thus I would make sure the pro section had no mention of gear in its title...

This could get 'sticky.' It's a reasonable presumption that pros will be using DSLR's, but not an absolue necessity or certainty. Still, the fact is that most of their gear questions/comments would rightfully belong in a DSLR discussion and would be of interest to all DSLR users. I believe the only topics that a pro would be concerned with that aren't relevant to the rest of the group (but could still be of interest) might be those dealing with legal/business issues (i.e. model releases, fee structures, copyrights, and so forth).


But the one section I would want to add is a "getting started" section. Perhaps a section like this with basic (non gear specific) FAQs would help. And then a FAQ in the other sections that are gear specific?

This would be very useful.

Good points.

---Tom---

[barnold999]

Well... I just read the original post (finally after millions of responses)

But, yah ok...

300D = consumer
10D = prosumer
1D and 1Ds = pro

see... it is all different... at a time only professional had cameras... not digital... but reguluar cameras... and now everyone does, but there are still all diferent "levels"

...yeah... that made sense, right?

[okteh18]

I do not understand why so much fuss about who owning 300D or 10D?Aren't we all here to learn and enjoy photography? I'm sure not all pros use 1Ds or 10Ds and not all beginners use 300Ds. I've seen pros using 300D shooting portrait in shopping mall so why all these arguements. Brothers and sisters, just enjoy what gears you've got and get on with getting out and taking nice photos... Just my 2 cents

[karusel]

Good point.

Now I believe the only and best and only best solution to this problem we've created is to make a big freaking f.a.q. consisting of links to gear testing sites such as http://www.pcphotoreview.com , http://www.dpreview.com , http://www.stevesdigicams.com and to certain threads in this forum and similar, whatever makes sense. The first line in faq being: before you post use Search option above. Also the first (sticky) thread in every section should contain f.a.q..

That's all I have to say.

[OhioRick]

Black , Silver, Plastic composite, Magnesium alloy , Aluminum ....... wayyyyyyyyyy too many materials/divisions.
I guess what it boils down too, is that "it isn't what you have".......It's "what you DO with what you've got!"

And THAT , I believe, is the ultimate goal, in photography.

[mwinog2777]

okteh18 wrote:
I do not understand why so much fuss about who owning 300D or 10D?Aren't we all here to learn and enjoy photography? I'm sure not all pros use 1Ds or 10Ds and not all beginners use 300Ds. I've seen pros using 300D shooting portrait in shopping mall so why all these arguements. Brothers and sisters, just enjoy what gears you've got and get on with getting out and taking nice photos... Just my 2 cents


And from OhioRick: "Black , Silver, Plastic composite, Magnesium alloy , Aluminum ....... wayyyyyyyyyy too many materials/divisions.
I guess what it boils down too, is that "it isn't what you have".......It's "what you DO with what you've got!"

And THAT , I believe, is the ultimate goal, in photography."
______________________________

You two are missing the point. This has been a board of, by and for the photography elitists. We are now being threatened by the rabble, the hoardes. Reminds me of the barbarians at the gates of Rome. There must be some way we can hold them off. Then again, maybe not.

Someday there will be a book written: "The Rise and Fall of the Elitist Photographer"

[robertwgross]

I'll have you know that my ancient ancestors were among the barbarians at the gates of Rome!

They had a hard time affording L lenses then also.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

robertwgross wrote:
I'll have you know that my ancient ancestors were among the barbarians at the gates of Rome!

They had a hard time affording L lenses then also.

---Bob Gross---

My ancestors painted their faces blue and danced around large piles of rocks. They couldn't even spell L lens.

[OhioRick]

mwinog2777 : You two are missing the point. This has been a board of, by and for the photography elitists. We are now being threatened by the rabble, the hoardes. Reminds me of the barbarians at the gates of Rome. There must be some way we can hold them off. Then again, maybe not.


OOppsss......My mistake Please accept my apology.

I don't know how it happened....But, Somehow I started out in the other Forum. (( Announcement: Welcome! This is a forum for digital camera enthusiasts using Canon cameras. ))) ........ and was suddenly transformed from the "enthusiasts" section to the "elitists" section.
I'm not sure how it happened, but I'll try to be more aware of this in the future.

[mwinog2777]

OhioRick wrote:

mwinog2777 : You two are missing the point. This has been a board of, by and for the photography elitists. We are now being threatened by the rabble, the hoardes. Reminds me of the barbarians at the gates of Rome. There must be some way we can hold them off. Then again, maybe not.


OOppsss......My mistake Please accept my apology.

I don't know how it happened....But, Somehow I started out in the other Forum. (( Announcement: Welcome! This is a forum for digital camera enthusiasts using Canon cameras. ))) ........ and was suddenly transformed from the "enthusiasts" section to the "elitists" section.
I'm not sure how it happened, but I'll try to be more aware of this in the future.


I promise this will be almost my last comment in this thread. You are right, and I am wrong. I apologize. This is a section for enthusiasts.

Somehow, along the way, I lost sight of my priorities, I lost sight of what brought me here in the first place, of what is important to me. I got caught up in the hubris of being one of the first kids on the block with a digital SLR, and couldn't take it when, well, you know what happened. But after reading all the posts on this thread, I have seen the error of my ways. I will try to be a team player. I will work with all the 300D enthusiasts who need help, regardless of the color of their camera, regardless of their level of experience. I will treat each person as an individual, not by the weight of their lenses.

I have sinned, and my sin was that of hubris. The color of a man's camera in no more important than the color of his eyes. It took approximately 70 responses to this thread before I understood that.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ouch ,.. the sarcasm is getting so think we could cut it with an axe! :D

I have an idea forming in my mind (yes it's true,. it's been about a decadxe since that happened..)

Be right back! :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

O-kay,...

see this here;

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20580

[rdenney]

RFMSports wrote:
In all seriousness and not meaning to separate the masses, but I think we should have the following forums:

1D/1Ds

D30/D60/10D

Rebel

Or:

Canon SLR Pro

Canon SLR SemiPro

Canon SLR Amateur

The reason being is that for the most part peoples heads are in a different spot when it come to ownership of these totally different cameras and mixing total professionals, semi-pros and amateurs into the same room is causing a bit of a stir. The results have been pretty obvious.

Here are the problems as I see them:

Experienced photographers who are new to digital seem to ask the same sorts of questions without doing any research in the archives. Their questions have to do with things like resolution, RAW format, Photoshop tricks, and sharpness.

Inexperienced photographers whose digital camera is their first serious camera ask the same sorts of questions without doing any research in the archives. Note that their questions are different from those in the first group. They seem to be variations of basic photography questions, including depth of field, focus, aperture, shutter speed, and (yes) sharpness.

Experienced digital photographers have answered these questions a zillion times and understandably get tired at times of doing so.

Guess what? This happens in all forums. The cadre of experienced forum contributors will be rotating as time goes on, just as the newbies are rotating through the newbie ranks on their way to becoming experienced. And, as with all forums, readers must show a lot of discernment to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I don't like any distinction between professional and amateur. I'm an amateur. I've been a professional at times, but I prefer to be an amateur. As an amateur, I'm free to explore my own objectives. Commercial photographers are bound by the objectives of their clients, and by the commercial needs of their business. I prefer not to have those constraints. Does that make me any less serious? No. Does that make me any less competent? Not in and of itself.

The interchange between serious and competent photographers with newbies is why there are forums. Newbies want to learn, and those with experience want to teach. Separating them ruins it for both groups.

I'm a member of another forum where on long-time contributor feels compelled to distinguish everything--equipment, people, everything--by whether it is "professional". He buys lens shades that look professional. He suggests multicoated UV filters for lens protection because it is professional (though I don't know many pros who use lens-protection filters). He never displays his photographs.

The last wedding I did I refused any form of payment. Why? I already have a job that pays better than I'd ever get as a photographer, and I'd rather give my friends the photography than take their money. That is exceedingly UN-professional. But the photographs end up the same if I'm competent.

Thus, any distinction between professional and non-professional is likely to draw lines through groups of people in silly ways. Plus, it will offend anybody who is a very serious AMATEUR photographer.

But it would be nice if folks would do a bit of searching in the archives before complaining that their 10D pictures don't seem sharp when they view them at actual pixels.

Rick "who has both black and chrome cameras" Denney

[swamprot]

Well I am new. I have a new "D10". But you don't have to worry about me asking dumb questions. Since I already know everything.

I was ignorant before I came here but thanks to this topic.

And this post.

Quote:
"1. That’s already been answered, you imbecile. Use the search engine at the top of the page.
2. Look at page XX of your user’s manual, moron.
3. You’re kidding, right? Was that really a serious question?
4. You’re new around here, aren’t you?
5. Maybe you should go back to the G1 forum for a while. You’re not really one of us yet.
6. Is this your first real camera?
7. I’m really sorry about your focusing issues, but I’m too busy taking pictures of rulers to discuss your problems right now. I suggest you send the camera back to Canon with all your lenses and have them tested.
8. Set the mode dial to the little green box. Turn the camera on. Point it in the general direction of the subject you’re shooting. Press the button. If it doesn’t work, try sending the camera back and see if you can get your money refunded.
9. Maybe you forgot to put film in. ROFLMAO!!
10. It’s a 10D, not a D10. Learn its proper name. (var.: ‘It’s a Canon, not a Cannon. Learn its proper name.)
11. Don’t they require literacy tests for DSLR buyers?"


Thanks guys now I can go take staggeringly impressive award winning pictures on my first roll of digital film.

Maybe one question. How do you wind this thing? Well maybe one more question. How do you open the back? Ah, Um. Maybe if someone could tell me or give me a hint or two, What should I take pictures of.
Sorry I didn't get a chance to research these things in the archive

To think I almost didn't buy this thing cuz it is so basic black I thought most all quality camera's had expensive silver finish. Goes to show even I with my vast knowledge (which I just now learned right here) can learn even more.

[LEC_D30]

Check this link:

http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/articles/article.jsp?article.articleId=60003

Thanks,

lec_eos

[ilya]

The only thing I can add to the various opinions here is my take on structure of another forum. The entire forum is positioned as "Professional Digital Photography".

Specific to Canon, they have:
Canon EOS 300D, 10D and D30/D60
Canon EOS-1D/EOS-1Ds
(no P&S's, though this is not what I'm advocating at all)

The 1D / 1Ds forum is very much for Pros, in the purest sense - commercial photographers. There is no shingle that says you have to be a pro. But the discussion is very dry and work-related. While I'll lurk there to get a sense of what's going on in the "high-end", I don't stick around because its not fun and its not for me.

The 10D/300D forum is more like this one, and that's much more enjoyable. Its applicable to my experience with my 10D, and no one minds the occasional newbie.

My point is I would not want to see this particular board broken up into pieces, because you dilute the spirit (and at times the outright stupidity which is also fun).

In general though, I think we're overengineering this thing. Its fine as it is.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I agree ilya. We are 90% (or more) 10D and 300D owners in this forum,. and the Silver is really all that seperates us,. that and the fact that by owning a 10D .. which was released 9 months earlier,. we have owned our cameras a few months longer...

That is all that seperates many of us (me for instance.. the 10D was my first SLR...)

So, if someone really feels that the 9 month difference is palpable...? well I don't know what to say to that.

[MediaMagic]

can NE 1 tell my wot lense 2 by??

[defordphoto]

Again just tossing out ideas for discussion. I'm not in any way saying that someone can post in one section and not the other. A Pro Section though might be in order and leave the rest the same as suggested in an earlier post -- I forget who. Sorry, I'm out of town on business and on a motel's computer and it's very weird.

Anyway, as usual, there are some taking this wrong that I'm suggesting that amateurs could not post on the proposed pro section or visa-versa. That is not my intention in these suggestions. Not to mention that these suggestions probably fall on deaf ears anyway as splitting the dSLR group has been suggested before. I think Pekka wants to Keep It Simple. And that's okay too.

[MediaMagic]

RFMSports wrote:
Again just tossing out ideas for discussion. I'm not in any way saying that someone can post in one section and not the other. A Pro Section though might be in order and leave the rest the same as suggested in an earlier post -- I forget who. Sorry, I'm out of town on business and on a motel's computer and it's very weird.

Anyway, as usual, there are some taking this wrong that I'm suggesting that amateurs could not post on the proposed pro section or visa-versa. That is not my intention in these suggestions. Not to mention that these suggestions probably fall on deaf ears anyway as splitting the dSLR group has been suggested before. I think Pekka wants to Keep It Simple. And that's okay too.

People always seem to get a bit more tightly wound over certain suggestions (or whatever for that matter) than is warranted. I thought this was a pretty good thread all the way around.

I agree that a split could be a good thing. What I find frustrating sometimes is when it is quite obvious someone (usually the 10th person this week) hasn't bothered to look down the page much less try a search before asking "what lens do I think about buying because I'm thinking about buying a 10D".

Perhaps a split into EOS Digital Beginner Advice and EOS Digital Advanced Techniques (or something silimar), same kind of thing, just a different moniker. Dropping the "pro" title on the theoretical new area would make things user friendly while not seeming "exclusive" from those who don't make a living with their cameras but take photography more seriously.

Some of us, myself included, kinda fall in between skill levels. I'm above the skill level of most amateurs/hobbyists but not on par with most pros. We'll need to add "EOS Digital Cocoon Phase" for those of us who have gone beyond the catepillar but haven't sprouted butterfly wings yet.. heh

[Belmondo]

Years ago I read something about the 4 levels of competence. Supposedly they are:
1. Unconscious incompetence – This is where we don’t have a clue. In fact, we don’t even realize just how much we don’t yet know.
2. Conscious incompetence – We don’t know what we’re doing, but at least we now realize it.
3. Unconscious competence – We don’t realize it yet, but we now know what we’re doing.
4. Conscious competence – We know what we’re doing, and we know it.

Somehow, this seems relevant to this discussion. I like to think I'm in cagegory 2, but maybe not.

Tom

[Canuck]

I too have asked about lenses, but the pros and cons of said idea. What I was asking was the difference between the Sigma EX and Canon L series. This is only something that IMHO, could be answered from those who have the aforementiond lenses. I am not by any stretch of the imagination a FNG (Flipping New Guy) but it was more about the upgrade from budget lenses to serious lenses. I must admit, I really enjoy shooting with L glass/Sigma EX glass, best of all, my camera agrees too!

I must admit seeing the same old question week in, week out gets very tiring. I think we can sort this on the forum within a forum. This too should be a "read this before proceeding to real forum" type deal. This gets back to the idea CDS and a others entertained with many ideas being aired. It is something like "Suggestions for EOS..." I too would be happy to share ideas/suggestions/etc to put it all up there and keep the repetetive questions down. I have another idea for the EOS suggestions, and will post it on that thread...

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[Andy_T]

Actually, I'd propose a change in two forums:

- Canon digital photography forum

for thos who want to take photos and discuss them and

- Canon digital photography forum split discussion forum

for those who're more keen on discussing how the forums should be split up in the future and who - if any - should have access to which :)

Best wishes,
Andy

-------------
G2 owner

[NILOLIGIST]

mwinog2777,

Although, I hear how you feel it does sound a little like fear creeping in. I hope you can go back to remembering when you were new to photography...

If it were not for the HELP & UNDERSTANDING of the pros you may not have grown into the photographer you are today.

Although, I do respect your opinion I do not agree with you. I do feel that it is my responsibility to help the new people along as I have been helped, hence, the reason for this forum.

Thanks for sharing.

NiL,

[Longwatcher]

As long as the topic page does not have only one day's new topics on it, I say there is no need for a split.

When I consistantly have to go a page or two down to see all of the new topics (or posted to topics), then it is time to consider splitting topics, but not before then.

Last time I looked today's posts all stayed on the first page.

--------------Completely irelevant trivia-------------
My first camera was a Kodak, my second was a polaroid, my third was a KS-87 8)

I got to point (in a way) several other cameras and the first one I had to buy myself was a Canon AV-1 (I still hate this camera, but it worked and I still have it). My last film camera (short of maybe an emergency box camera) is a Hassleblad 500 EL/M (I expect to hear sounds of jealousy here :p

My first digital camera can't be mentioned here, however, the first one I could hold in my hands was a Kodak DVC-300, the second was a Kodak DC4800 (with the lens kit) and then I went Canon D60 and now I have a 10D.

---------------------End of Trivia------------------------

This week has really been bad, I have not had time to take any pictures :(

However, I have finally decided what to get me for Christmas (A set of alien bees 2xAB800, 2xAB1600 and accessories), which until Canon comes out with a FF camera I can afford, will be all of the camera gear I need.

Just had to write something for some reason, even I can't understand.

Have Fun, Take pictures.

[ohenry]

andythaler wrote:
Actually, I'd propose a change in two forums:

- Canon digital photography forum

for thos who want to take photos and discuss them and

- Canon digital photography forum split discussion forum

for those who're more keen on discussing how the forums should be split up in the future and who - if any - should have access to which :)

Best wishes,
Andy

-------------
G2 owner



Perhaps :

Canon digital photography forum
and
Canon digital photography forum for those with delusions of grandeur


:)

[John-M]

karusel wrote:
they'll never impress chicks with their mincy fagg*t $89,99 28-80 lens regardless what camera it's on




Not unless they spray paint it white ;)

John Meara

(Who has a serious case of L-glassitis)

[seanarmenta]

funny...how there are people out there who actually think that having a more expensive camera makes them 1) professional and 2)able to take better pictures.

these are the same people running around with a 1V or a 1D and couldn't take a decent picture if their lives depended on it.

snobs you may be, but photographers you ain't ;)

these shots taken with a EOS Rebel 2000 :)

http://seanarmenta.com/images/rachelnight.jpg
http://seanarmenta.com/images/heather1.jpg

[Belmondo]

This is supposed to be a digital forum, so unless those are self-portraits, they're of little relevance to the subject at hand, and even then, only for their prurient value.

Please re-take them with a digital camera and submit them again.

Tom

[defordphoto]

Even if they are self-portraits they still sit meaningless in our digital community.

[robertwgross]

I will not make this argument, but there are some people who will argue this point: They shoot film and then scan it into a digital image. Then they claim that this is digital imaging (as opposed to digital photography). I think we are splitting hairs now, and I haven't got enough left on the top of my head now.

---Bob Gross---

[Tom W]

John-M wrote:
karusel wrote:
they'll never impress chicks with their mincy fagg*t $89,99 28-80 lens regardless what camera it's on




Not unless they spray paint it white ;)

John Meara

(Who has a serious case of L-glassitis)

Do NOT forget the lens cap in that case.

[Tom W]

belmondo wrote:
This is supposed to be a digital forum, so unless those are self-portraits, they're of little relevance to the subject at hand, and even then, only for their prurient value.

Please re-take them with a digital camera and submit them again.

Tom



Better yet, send the subjects to me and I will skillfully photograph them with my S-400. It is digital!!

[Tom W]

RFMSports wrote:
Even if they are self-portraits they still sit meaningless in our digital community.

You're probably right on that issue, but I believe the poster was using the pictures to illustrate another point. The poster's belief seems to me to be that one need not break the bank to take decent pictures. That belief seems to be well illustrated by these pictures from the "lowly" Rebel 2000. The fact that it was a film camera will not dissuade me from investing in a digital SLR at some point in the future. My SLR's are both film at this time, but that's going to change. This forum and its members (yourself included) will help me make that change.

Plus, I find both photos to be very pleasing (which is not relevent to the digital community or the subject at hand, but it did catch my eye). :)

[ilya]

seanarmenta wrote:
funny...how there are people out there who actually think that having a more expensive camera makes them 1) professional and 2)able to take better pictures.

these are the same people running around with a 1V or a 1D and couldn't take a decent picture if their lives depended on it.

snobs you may be, but photographers you ain't ;)

these shots taken with a EOS Rebel 2000 :)



Sean

Nice shots

I see this thread touched you so deeply that you registered.

What is it that makes one a photographer?

ilya

[Belmondo]

seanarmenta wrote:snobs you may be, but photographers you ain't ;)

For a new guy, he sure picked up on that fact real quick (at least in my case).

[defordphoto]

Tom W wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
Even if they are self-portraits they still sit meaningless in our digital community.

You're probably right on that issue, but I believe the poster was using the pictures to illustrate another point. The poster's belief seems to me to be that one need not break the bank to take decent pictures.

Well then I guess you could take the same shots with a one-use 35mm then.

Point is that the camera is a useless box without an artist behind it.

Secondary point (newbie's point with his/her pictures) is that an artist the camera does not make.

Thirdly point is what the heck was this thread all about anyway? LOL :)

[MediaMagic]

seanarmenta wrote:

...snobs you may be, but photographers you ain't ;)



Hey now, I'm a professional snobographer. I'm still developing my snob skills and only half a photographer. ;)

[openspace]

We all started somewhere, sometime, with someone's help. I give back because so many gave to me. None of us should forget that.

[KarlJones]

seanarmenta wrote:
snobs you may be, but photographers you ain't
Oh, come now... there are plenty of snob photographers around. You'll probably find that the professionals are the most prevalent. Now isn't that funny?

[swamprot]

Nice prurient value.

[lziering]

Get a life.

[jwkramer]

One ***REALLY*** important question - how the hell do I turn off "E-Mail Notification"? This thread has gotten WAY-WAY-WAY out of hand. It's worse than the SPAM I get every day.

I figured this thread was going to get crazy when I saw it go up on day 1. You know, I have been shooting 35mm for about 20 years now. I consider myself to be a serious amatuer. Most of what I shoot I don't like, and I am always aspiring to be a better photographer. I have seen examples of some really great stuff here, and on other sites - and I am so glad the world wide web has given us a medium to share photographs like never before. I remember in the beginning when I first started shooting pictures, and discovering the amazing ways that light would be recorded on film. I thought that my first time lapsed shots of cars in traffic were some of the best photographs ever taken (by anyone! ). I see new photographers discovering these same things today, and I think to myself - "YAWN". Mind you, I don't SAY IT... I only think it. Discovery is all part of the photographic process. I think that every photographer is still at some point of the discovery process, and will be for as long as they can click a shutter. We never stop learning. The beauty of a forum like this is that the senior members can share their knowledge and experience to help the newer members aspire to be better photographers.

So everybody, take a deep breath... and remember - we were all NOOBIES - somewhere, at sometime. Practice patience, and be helpful. That is why people come here - FOR HELP. They are looking up to the senior members here for guidance. Take it as a compliment, because it is one.

One last thing... everybody, please post more examples of your work in the "Share Photos" section. I think this is a great place to get to see what some of the pros around here can do behind the lens!

Thanks for letting me ramble!
-Jim

[seanarmenta]

okay, fair enough...

the posted images were not shot on digital, but on film, which were then scanned. i'll post images i took digitally in the appropriate thread, but what does it matter how i took them, that wasn't the point.

and fine, this is not the thread to post images in, though my intention for posting the images were to illustrate a point -- and that point is, it's not the equipment that makes great pictures, it's the person using it. which alternatively can also mean that you may have the most expensive, top-of-the line gear, but it's not going to make you a better shooter.

and say what you will, and think what you may, and bitch and moan about how the peasants or peons are now able to afford digital SLR's and what not, and how one camera "looks" more pro than the other because of it's color...LOL

why not post some actual work you've done and not give a damn what camera you took the shot with? of perhaps you can take pictures of your equipment and post that :)

or maybe you're threatened by people with cheaper cameras because you can't for the life of you understand why they're taking better shots than you can with your more expensive gear? LOL

or maybe i'm just pulling everyone's leg, and the shots i posted were taken with my 1DS :)

[Belmondo]

seanarmenta wrote:or maybe i'm just pulling everyone's leg, and the shots i posted were taken with my 1DS :)

Guess we'll never know for sure. We really have to take your word for it.

FWIW, most of the 'Rebel-bashing' has been good-natured. And many, like myself, don't pretend to be great artists/photographers. We here to learn what we can.

In that pursuit, do you suppose you'd mind sharing the phone numbers of some of your models?

Tom

[MediaMagic]

seanarmenta wrote:

why not post some actual work you've done and not give a damn what camera you took the shot with? of perhaps you can take pictures of your equipment and post that :)




I really doubt that anyone here cares a whole heck of a lot what camera equipment everyone else is using. I know I don't, unless I read something that I am attempting to accomplish and then I'll ask "what did you use for that?" or "how the hell did you pull THAT off?" something similar.

In the grand scheme of all things digital... it seems regardless of what digital body you use today, it's going to be scoffed at in a year as being "old and crappy" anyway. I have a 10D. It's a nice camera. I'd rather have it than the D-Rebel because there are more options open for me to use. The pictures taken though, will not be any better than an equally skilled individual can take with a D-Rebel.

What I really want is a 1Ds. I salivate every time I see those things. That's not in the cards at the moment for me but that doesn't mean I don't want one. I actually had the choice, I could forgo my new lens and studio lights and buy the 1Ds, or I could have the 10D with some great glass and lights. To me the choice was easy.. Glass and Light. Even the 1Ds will be old technology soon enough.

I do think it's a good *idea* to split the EOS digital forum into two sections, like I mentioned before, something like "Beginner Advice" and "Advanced Technique Discussion". The very fact that the dSLR entry level decrease in initial cost is bringing so many new participants would suggest this would be useful. I don't espouse this view because I'm being snobby to anyone who has just purchased a Digital Rebel; I really think it would be beneficial. Perhaps not. I'm also reasonably sure that it's not pratical enough to warrant it being brought to fruition. Even if it were, there is little doubt that there would be squabbles over what is or isn't a beginner question, etc.

Who really gives a damn? Just take pictures with whatever you have and enjoy it. Practice and always push yourself to learn something new. That's my reason for being here... to use these generous pros to scam all their tricks of the trade and then sell the information on a late night infomercial. ;)

[rockyc2]

I don't mean to be Snoobish, but is there room for me here?:D:D:D I'm a Pro90 IS user gettin ready to hit the DSLR Scene with a purchase of a 10D, and an 100-400L Lens. I hope my head doesn't go flyin out into Space. hahaha!
Rocky

[defordphoto]

rockyc2 wrote:
I don't mean to be Snoobish, but is there room for me here?:D:D:D I'm a Pro90 IS user gettin ready to hit the DSLR Scene with a purchase of a 10D, and an 100-400L Lens. I hope my head doesn't go flyin out into Space. hahaha!
Rocky


You'll fit right in with that setup. I also have the 100-400L and it's awesome for outdoor sports/wildlife. Big camera (you are getting BigEd right?) and big white lens. Doesn't get much better than that. Replace that stupid hood with one of the tougher, and yes, cooler looking, petal-hoods though.

[rockyc2]

RFMSports wrote:
rockyc2 wrote:
I don't mean to be Snoobish, but is there room for me here?:D:D:D I'm a Pro90 IS user gettin ready to hit the DSLR Scene with a purchase of a 10D, and an 100-400L Lens. I hope my head doesn't go flyin out into Space. hahaha!
Rocky


You'll fit right in with that setup. I also have the 100-400L and it's awesome for outdoor sports/wildlife. Big camera (you are getting BigEd right?) and big white lens. Doesn't get much better than that. Replace that stupid hood with one of the tougher, and yes, cooler looking, petal-hoods though.

Haha! Thanks, Jim. I'll remember that when I order them from (B&H). They sure are fast to deliver. I ordered a 1GB CF Card, and it only took 1 day to get here, and I didn't even have to order it overnight delivery.:D:D
Rocky
http://starbrighttwo.com/HTMLobj-1026/Felix_the_Cat.gif

[defordphoto]

Yeah, I get most of my stuff from B&H. They're awesome. I rate them a 10 for sure.

[rockyc2]

RFMSports wrote:
Yeah, I get most of my stuff from B&H. They're awesome. I rate them a 10 for sure.

Me three!! Maybe even a 10+
Rocky

[CyberDyneSystems]

Here's a relevent point...

I don't know the exact numbers,. but I have shot about 14,000 images with my 10D...

I started experimenting with the more advanced controls fairly earlt,. but when it mattered I used the 10D in P mode fairly regularly. There was only about a week of use befroe I implented my first custom function.. with a few more soon to follow..

These are functions that the 300D does not offer,. and this was my first SLR... one week and I had technically outgrown the limits of the 300D...


That said, ... why did the we climb Everest? Because it was there,.

if I hadn't had the CF features,. I might not have missed them for a while.. a long while.

To the best I can estimate,. in hindsite CF functions aside I would have been usiing the 10D pretty much as a 300d for about the first 4,000 shots.

At about the 4,000 shot point I do believe I would have really run into a wall with the limititaions in the CF settings and focus/exposure etc...

Not to mention that the birst rate would have effected my shooting from day one...

[RichardtheSane]

I love my 10D with a 100-400L attached, I frequenty use it to beat aside those who dare cross my path or get in my shot with their silver slr. How dare they! My equipment is black and white, no silver to be seen, therefore it muse be better and more important.
I am a snob :D :D :D

- and if you'll believe that.........

[rockyc2]

RichardtheSane wrote:
I love my 10D with a 100-400L attached, I frequenty use it to beat aside those who dare cross my path or get in my shot with their silver slr. How dare they! My equipment is black and white, no silver to be seen, therefore it muse be better and more important.
I am a snob :D :D :D

- and if you'll believe that.........

Haha! I'll drink to that, Richard.:D:D:D I can hardly wait to order my 10D, and that good ol 100-400L. Watch out Critters!!:D:D Rocky's got the half Big Gun after you!
Rocky

[Tom W]

RFMSports wrote:

Well then I guess you could take the same shots with a one-use 35mm then.

Me? Not likely.

Generally, a single use 35 mm would have trouble with these shots IMHO. But most SLR's are pretty capable if operated by the right person. I really don't profess to be that right person. Instead, I fall under the "blind squirrel finding a nut sometimes" catagory.

I was not meaning to say that very good equipment isn't worth buying - I've seen enough differences between "L" glass and more mainstream lenses to know that the capabilities are generally worth the price. But, not everybody can afford the price, nor is it worth spending top dollar if you aren't going to take advantage of the supreme quality.

Point is that the camera is a useless box without an artist behind it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just have a strange way of saying it sometimes.

Secondary point (newbie's point with his/her pictures) is that an artist the camera does not make.

I agree again!

Thirdly point is what the heck was this thread all about anyway? LOL :)

Heh Heh! I'm not sure I remember - the first post is nearly anchient history. But it has been an interesting and lively debate.

[PacAce]

rockyc2 wrote:
... I hope my head doesn't go flyin out into Space. hahaha!
Rocky


Rocky, that's one of the hazards of owning a 10D. And it gets even worse when you add an L lens on top of that! :D You'll just have to try extra hard not to let that happen...let your head go flying into outter space, that is. Some 10D owners have managed to cope with this big problem a lot better than others. :D :D

And the other hazard? Someone recently reported suffering from RSI (repetitive strain injury), also known as CTD (cummulative trauma disorder), from using the heavy 10D in conjunction with an even heavier L lens! Better start doing them arm curls with 20 pound dumbbells before your 10D arrives! :D :D :D

Welcome to the club.

[Belmondo]

RichardtheSane wrote.........no silver to be seen.........

If you're anything like me, there's no silver (or gold) to be seen because I've sent it all off to the dealers to pay for my black and white equipment.

Tom (the destitute) :(

[rockyc2]

PacAce wrote:
rockyc2 wrote:
... I hope my head doesn't go flyin out into Space. hahaha!
Rocky


Rocky, that's one of the hazards of owning a 10D. And it gets even worse when you add an L lens on top of that! :D You'll just have to try extra hard not to let that happen...let your head go flying into outter space, that is. Some 10D owners have managed to cope with this big problem a lot better than others. :D :D

And the other hazard? Someone recently reported suffering from RSI (repetitive strain injury), also known as CTD (cummulative trauma disorder), from using the heavy 10D in conjunction with an even heavier L lens! Better start doing them arm curls with 20 pound dumbbells before your 10D arrives! :D :D :D

Welcome to the club.

Haha! I work out everyday doing arm bends with a can of Beer.:D:D:D I'll try to not go into outter space. I'll just stay like I am now. (A funny down-to-earth Guy) :)
Rocky

[PacAce]

rockyc2 wrote:Haha! I work out everyday doing arm bends with a can of Beer.:D:D:D I'll try to not go into outter space. I'll just stay like I am now. (A funny down-to-earth Guy) :)
Rocky


Oh, I forgot to mention...you might want to tie both ends of a 2 ft. long a cord to a 6 pack, hang it around your neck and walk around with it like that for a couple of hours. That'll get your neck and shoulders conditions for the 10D and the 100-400 lens! :)

[rockyc2]

PacAce wrote:
rockyc2 wrote:Haha! I work out everyday doing arm bends with a can of Beer.:D:D:D I'll try to not go into outter space. I'll just stay like I am now. (A funny down-to-earth Guy) :)
Rocky


Oh, I forgot to mention...you might want to tie both ends of a 2 ft. long a cord to a 6 pack, hang it around your neck and walk around with it like that for a couple of hours. That'll get your neck and shoulders conditions for the 10D and the 100-400 lens! :)


I'll do that.:D:D With a sixpack hung around my neck, I'll be all set until the Beer runs out. Hahahaha!!
Rocky