Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

[79TAKid]

Just wanted to share my experience at the track the other day.

So ive been going over to the track for the past TWO years taking pictures (around the starting line, to 60' mark, or sometimes burnouts, which are OK places to be).

So this Saturday I was there, I go over with my dad every Saturday, know all the racers, and take pictures to learn, and possibly sell. Mainly to learn and have fun while im there instead of sitting around all day waiting for my dad to race.. Thats how I got into photography and bought my XT.
I'm up there taking pictures like normal, the only photographer up there, and once of the starters (throws switch for tree to come down) just switched spots with the other guy I know whos usually up there. I know the other guy sort of because hes been there a long time, but never really talked to him.
So he sees me and is like "HEY, GET OVER HERE!"
I walk over and hes like "You Dont have permission to be up here anymore because of what your doing in the pits!"

I was pretty surprised at that and didnt think to ask WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!? The only thing I could think of is giving out a few pictures to my friends and people who do stuff in return for us.

I thought I "POed" the track manager or someone, so I go find him and ask him "Why Cant I take Pictures anymore?" and he had no clue what I was talking about.
I told him my story, and he was pretty busy but is a nice guy so he said he'd go talk to Ace (the starter) when he had time.

The only other reason I could think of why he would say anything is because the "Track Photographer" who is employed there (doesnt get paid) showed up for the 1st time in 5 months. I was pretty mad that I had only gotten 90 pictures in and was bored the rest of the day. I didnt even get to try out my new 4GB Transcend card or battery.

Well, thats my story, the guys just a big @sshole. Went and talked to the announcer for awhile (I know just about everyone there) and he said that the dude never shows up for work and is a big prick and that I should be able to be up there since that guys just the starter and doesnt have any say in anything.


:rolleyes::evil:

[liza]

So, outbid him for the job. That would be justice, to say the least.

[MikeMcL]

heck yes. put together a small portfolio of your work, explain to him that you are excited and capable to do the work, and emphasize that you will actually show up and do a good job. im sure that they will entertain the offer.

if they have an unpaid "track photog", and he only shows up once every 5 months, what is he even doing for them.

PS. dont kill them with 100 shots, just get 10 or so really sharp ones printed about 8x10 and talk to them about what you can do...
keep in mind what you want... if you just want to take pics for fun you may not want the responsibility. if you become the track photographer, will that hinder your ability to do your own thing, probably not.

[tim]

You say to him "Are you an offical of this event?" If he says no tell him he can stick his opinion up his a***. Make sure you have offical permission before trying this line.

[Steve Parr]

It sounds like you're in a pretty favorable position to negotiate the rights to shoot. You've been shooting there a while, you continue to go on a regular basis, and you intend to continue. Add to that the fact that the "official" track photographer rarely shows up, and you're standing on pretty solid ground.

Tim's advice of telling him to stick his opinion is, well, bad advice. The guy may not be a "track official", but it's probably a safe bet that he's good friends with the guys who are.

If you're already acquainted with the people who work there, use that to your advantage. Use that along with your portfolio and the fact that the "official" guy never shows up, and you may well find yourself trackside...

[tim]

Tim's advice of telling him to stick his opinion is, well, bad advice. The guy may not be a "track official", but it's probably a safe bet that he's good friends with the guys who are.

Fair call. That was my 2nd thought, my first thought was to... well... you don't need to know that ;)

[SuzyView]

Always check with the "official" official. My husband is a lawyer and I never want to have to ask him to get involved in anything I shoot. I usually e-mail the people who are in charge of an events, if I am not asked specifically to shoot it. It's an easy way to have a written response that you have permission or that you communicated already with the highest power.

[deadpass]

I'm sorry that had to happen to you man, I know how upsetting it can get when someone oversteps their bounds. I think you did the right thing. As soon as someone tells me I can't do something, the first thing I think is "does this M/Fer have any right to tell me this?" If I can't tell by just looking, I'll ask him, then I ask him who his boss is and how I can get ahold of him, or her. Then I will confirm the information. Typically I'm shooting in places that are in the grey area of law so I don't have much of a foot to stand on legally, but they don't know that. Good luck, I hope you can take that dudes "job" if you want it that is.

[Steve Parr]

As soon as someone tells me I can't do something, the first thing I think is "does this M/Fer have any right to tell me this?"

Probably a safe bet that you don't ask yourself the same thing if someone tells you that you can do something, though, right?

[79TAKid]

Talked to the Track manager again last night and he still hadnt called the guy:rolleyes:

I asked him if I could get an application to be a track photographer and he said I can probably be one next year:) (no schedual, no pay, can do just about anything) Sounds good to me :D

[Jon, The Elder]

Yup - A few words to the right 'official' in the right way can really smooth out the path. A freeby now and then ain't bad either. Then, when or if you are challenged, start dropping names.

If you are serious about making a buck with an organization, start at the very TOP level - after that things fall into place. Starting anywhere else will mean a long climb up.

[LBaldwin]

Actually, the best course is to back off until you can talk to the person in charge. An unpaid photographer is not a "track photographer". Is the property privte or public. If it is public then you can go where ever you want to.

If it is private talk to the OWNER or the manager of the track well in advance of your next planned arrival. Send him a letter on your letter head, and explain that you would like to take pictures for your own use (non commercial applications only for now. See if you can get the track to get you a photo pass or create one your self. It is legal. That way if anyone sees you from a distance you can flash your (home made) badge Put RACE PHOTOGRAPHER on it and a small image of you. On the reverse put a thuimb print and contact info. I know it is stupid but it works. Also make some photo business cards for advertise. It's funny but cards lend a sense of professionilism and lets them know that you are serious.

Do that for awhile gather some great images that rival what is being published in magazines. Then submit the images to the magazines first and don't stop until they use one. Then take that to the track officials show them the PUBLISHED image and get the track gig. BUT do not ever sign over the rights to the images to anyone, period.

Sell or make large prints, get some wall space on or near the track so that others can see your work and go from there. You may have to make a few freebies to get the ball rolling but if someone can afford thousands of dollars to make and run a dragster they can afford good images.

Good luck,

Les Baldwin

[79TAKid]

there arent any photographers getting stuff published there, just others like me and one guy that is 'hired' by the track, but is there once every 5 months.:rolleyes:

I am friends with the track manager and most of the employees there. The track manager doenst mind that I go take pictures. We dont really have passes there, you just need a little armband that you get with your entry ticket to be up by the starting line.

[LBaldwin]

Hey Aaron,

I know what you mean, but having written permission and a credential of some kind will usually takes the wind out of any blowhard, that appoints themselves an authority. It happens to me every once in a while where a well meaning parent tries to keep me from taking pictures at a HS football game or other event. I have been rousted by all manner of cops, security officers and just plain knuckleheads. Oddly enough when I am shooting bikini stuff in the middle of downtown San Jose I get lots of helpers...... and an occasional assistant director :-). Try the letter thing, make your own badge to ID yourself if nothing else put Hagen Race Team Official Photographer. People are usually loud and often fooled.

Have fun and be safe at the track.

Les

[coreypolis]

read this http://www.rcfp.org/photoguide/

[Gnomo727]

I'm very used to this afirmation and some kinds of variation, like "who are you and what are you doing? " "Who gave you permissition to be here?" and something like that.

My hobby (and sometimes work) is making aviation photography. After the September 11th, the security guys gone insane, thinking that us - aviation spotters - are terrorists...

But one thing is take photos inside the apron or near the runway in a secure area, another thing is to make shots in the public area ou in the street... But today when some kind of security guy comes talk to me I show some pictures I take and show that I'm a pilot also.. 99% works fine (and some time I even meet a new friend)

[John Nicholas]

If the manager already told you that you can be there what more do you need? If someone questions you again just tell them you have authorization from management.

[gcobb]

The guy starting the cars no doubt has his people there but I'm sure he isn't the variable in whether you can do that. In Memphis when I go there are probably 10 people down by the staging area with cameras and no telling how many others. They're never said anything to anyone. That guy must have been having a bad day. One thing to consider though, is to avoid using a flash while they're staging or before they start moving.

[<AkulA>]

I'm sure its not completely accurate for all states, but check out some of the info in this post! Photographers have rights too! (As long as we aren't terrorists!)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=247481

[davidfig]

Is this a public event? Is so, I don't see how they can tell you this.

[nevilleb]

Oh yes, I keep getting told that, and it's happening with increasing frequency. To the point that the next security guard who walks up to me while I'm doing some street photography is going to get a earfull! They'll probably end up having to take me to their supervisor, who'll get a earfull too! It's not like I'm in their property / premises shooting!

It's getting so bad that I may end up writing to the papers about it - these new fangled security paranoia is going too far!

nevilleb

[rhys]

I was the official photographer at one event and the guys on the gate demanded that I paid the entry fee so I told them "If I pay then I don't take photos for the event. If I get in free then I do take photos as requested by the organisers" and suggested he brought the event organiser over to which the security guy replied "he's not here" so I pointed at the guy and said "who's that then?" The security guy pretended he didn't know him from adam so I called out to him and the security guy quickly let me through. Security guys tend in general to be on power trips. Heck, when I had a bodyguard one time even he was on a power trip!

[CanonXTuser]

I was the official photographer at one event and the guys on the gate demanded that I paid the entry fee so I told them "If I pay then I don't take photos for the event. If I get in free then I do take photos as requested by the organisers" and suggested he brought the event organiser over to which the security guy replied "he's not here" so I pointed at the guy and said "who's that then?" The security guy pretended he didn't know him from adam so I called out to him and the security guy quickly let me through. Security guys tend in general to be on power trips. Heck, when I had a bodyguard one time even he was on a power trip!


Did you let the organizer know what happened and the way the security guy acted?

That's not just a power trip ... that is just plain unprofessional and dishonest behavior.

You should let the organizer know and say he ought to know what his security are doing as it reflects on him and if they are going to be dishonest and evasive on what should have been a "no brainer" to resolve in the first place, how will they act in other situations.

[rhys]

Did you let the organizer know what happened and the way the security guy acted?

That's not just a power trip ... that is just plain unprofessional and dishonest behavior.

You should let the organizer know and say he ought to know what his security are doing as it reflects on him and if they are going to be dishonest and evasive on what should have been a "no brainer" to resolve in the first place, how will they act in other situations.

I did mention it and he said he'd have a word with them.

That reminds me of another couple of encounters. I was with a friend who was photographing the city fair. He was the "official" press photographer. When it came time to enter he said he'd talk me in. It turned out that the guys on the gate wouldn't let either of us in without paying a rather large entrance fee. In the end we walked around the back and climbed over the fence and got the photos that way. His paper complained to the council but got nowhere. Subsequently the head of the council had a series of articles written about him in that newspaper including photos of him with his mistress. He was never re-elected.

On another occasion, there was a photographer working at some tourist railway in North Carolina. I forget totally what the name of the railway is. I think it's the one running through Nantahala gorge.

She was taking photos of people standing on the front of the railway engine and when she ran out of people and the engine was vacant I stepped up to take a photo of the engine. She was most obnoxious and unprofessional, screaming insults and leaping in front of my lens while uttering curses and threats. I was flaberghasted by such a juvenille performance. It transpired that she had a studio just opposite the railway station. Anyway, I took a photo of the engine in defiance of her although it wasn't a good photo. I got a better photo later when the engine was at the top of the gorge.