I really like the new EOS 400D. Am I alone?

[Micleg]

Noone here seems to give the new EOS 400D some slack.

I find it to be a very good update of the 350D! I have already put my name on the list.

Pros and cons of the EOS 400D from my point of view (I have no digital EOS but was close to buy the 30D or 5D this summer):

+ New large display (with better brightness than the 30D and 5D)
+ Only one display (the small one on top is too hard to read on the 30D/5D)
+ Sensor shuts off LCD when you look through the eye-piece
+ Sensor cleaning
+ Better AF system than the 350D
+ New menu system and potentially better image processing than the 350D

- Too small
- 1.6X sensor
- (No sealing)
- (Fragile?)

I plan to buy a full format sensor EOS when there is one worth the money or at least not as "dull" as the 5D. That one is too slow and lacks sealing.

I think I will stay away from EF-S lenses (well, maybe one general EF-S) and put my money in as much "L" lenses as possible even though I buy a "crappy" 400D. I will probably notice that I will get better pictures than with a 30D and non-"L"-lenses.

[grego]

Well, if you are considering the 30D or 5D, get one of those. You are losing out on extra features if you get the 400D. Remember, the 400D is the entry level camera.

You can turn off your LCD screen by pushing the shutter button, by the way. You will only get sealing in a 1D or 1Ds camera.

It has better AF than the 350, but not better than the 30D or 5D. I'd venture to bet on that.

The 400D is missing the top LCD, btw.

BTW, for 1200(final price), you can basically have the 30D body only kit.

[bidimagic]

Well, if you are considering the 30D or 5D, get one of those. You are losing out on extra features if you get the 400D. Remember, the 400D is the entry level camera.

You can turn off your LCD screen by pushing the shutter button, by the way. You will only get sealing in a 1D or 1Ds camera.

It has better AF than the 350, but not better than the 30D or 5D. I'd venture to bet on that.

The 400D is missing the top LCD, btw.

BTW, for 1200(final price), you can basically have the 30D body only kit.

I agree with you. Once I upgraded from 300D to 20D, I would never look back to entry level cameras!
Other, 350D ant 400D are too small and light.

[05Xrunner]

the thing that really bothers me is everthing is now on one LCD screen...makes it more like a point and shoot. That is one reason I would never want it. the self cleaning and having the 20d/30d focus system is very nice though

[bidimagic]

the thing that really bothers me is everthing is now on one LCD screen...makes it more like a point and shoot. That is one reason I would never want it. the self cleaning and having the 20d/30d focus system is very nice though

Yeah, sensor self-cleaning is a thing I would like to have on my 20D too !!!

[SuzyView]

Another thread is going around about the possibility of a 40D. That's what I'm more interested in, or the upgrade to the 5D. Canon did kick back butt putting this one out. Hopefully, people will respond by buying the 400D so Canon can use the new improvements for their other pro-sumer lines.

[Micleg]

Well, if you are considering the 30D or 5D, get one of those. You are losing out on extra features if you get the 400D. Remember, the 400D is the entry level camera...
What are those extra features, not counting those I put down as negative?

The main problem is that it is not FF. The 30D is not FF either. If the 400D has the same AF, the same LCD, the same sensor size, the same sealing, the same Digic II what else is there except size? Forget about the feeling you get when you know you have spent more money!

This will not be the last EOS I buy. Heck, I need one now and I don't want to buy the 350D with its small screens on the back and I don't want to pay for the 5D now. In a year I might be owning a 5DMkII or 6D, then I will be glad I didn't pay for more than a (probably) excellent 400D. I know one person who has a 300D and an EF-L 400/5.6 and is very happy with that combo. Gives him great pictures.

[bidimagic]

What are those extra features, not counting those I put down as negative?

The main problem is that it is not FF. The 30D is not FF either. If the 400D has the same AF, the same LCD, the same sensor size, the same sealing, the same Digic II what else is there except size? Forget about the feeling you get when you know you have spent more money!

This will not be the last EOS I buy. Heck, I need one now and I don't want to buy the 350D with its small screens on the back and I don't want to pay for the 5D now. In a year I might be owning a 5DMkII or 6D, then I will be glad I didn't pay for more than a (probably) excellent 400D. I know one person who has a 300D and an EF-L 400/5.6 and is very happy with that combo. Gives him great pictures.

It's difficult to say why one would prefer a 30D over a 350D/400D, mainly because each one looks for features that he would prefer over other's.
I don't try to convince you that 30D is better than 400D, but I would like
to share why I prefer a 20D (that currently own) over a 350/400D.
Mainly, it is the handling, the controls, the construction.
I would say other features but I know (e.g. speed, accurate focusing), they are all things that when you told another, he can says "it's not important for me".
Also, it seems that some of them are addressed by this new 400D, that seems a very powerful camera, with very impressive features for the cost.
But the "feel" you have when holding 20D/30D cameras is somewhat different.

[Micleg]

Yes, the physical feeling of holding the 400D will probably be the biggest problem. It's just so small. I will try to compensate with the battery grip, but I'm used to an EOS 100 or 50 with grips so I might still find it too small. But I will have to live with that and maybe I will find the size practical for some situations.

[bidimagic]

Yes, the physical feeling of holding the 400D will probably be the biggest problem. It's just so small. I will try to compensate with the battery grip, but I'm used to an EOS 100 or 50 with grips so I might still find it too small. But I will have to live with that and maybe I will find the size practical for some situations.

I owned a 300D before and I enjoyed it for 2 years very much.
Then I decided to recently upgrade to an used 20D w/grip, at less price of a new 400D; but this was my choice, because I still prefer to have a better "hold & feel" over than more megapixels or new features.
Money for me is a matter, so I cannot think to a MKII or even to a new
30D, I prefer to use the savings in better glass!!!

[In2Photos]

Well, if you are considering the 30D or 5D, get one of those. You are losing out on extra features if you get the 400D. Remember, the 400D is the entry level camera.

You can turn off your LCD screen by pushing the shutter button, by the way. You will only get sealing in a 1D or 1Ds camera.

It has better AF than the 350, but not better than the 30D or 5D. I'd venture to bet on that.

The 400D is missing the top LCD, btw.

BTW, for 1200(final price), you can basically have the 30D body only kit.

According to Rob Gailbrath the final price is $799. Sound like a better deal now?


I think it is funny how people always bash the new products and talk about how they are not much of an upgrade. Do you think Canon makes ugrades to the cameras for people that already own one of their cameras? No! They make the changes to stay competitive ion the NEW market. They figure that once you have a camera and lenses you are in. If you decide to upgrade it usually isn't from a 350D to a 400D for example. It usually is from a 350D to a 30D or 5D or 1D series cameras.

[OpticNein]

No, you're not alone. I just bought my rebel xt 3 weeks ago. And I am going to get the 400D/rebel XTi in a few months.

i like the big lcd, sensor cleaning, 10.1mp, and SMALL size. it's worth the $799. So, watch out here on POTN bec i will be selling my rebel xt kit!

then off to the 40D for 2008.

[Lightstream]

If the 400D has 30D-class AF I would consider it. I need a crop camera to act as my telephoto extender camera, but I need good AF to go with the tele. We'll see...

It's possible that the 400D can match the 30D because the 30's going to be retired soon, in the next six months if my predictions are right, so sales of the 400D will not cannibalize the 30D's sales too much. Things gotta move on yaknow. ;)

[Micleg]

Some more pictures of the 400D:

http://canon.com.au/products/cameras/digital_slr/eos400dblackbody_image_library.html

[Tom W]

You are not alone. It's a significant step up from the already-good 350D/XT. Canon did well, and it'll play well in the marketplace.

[grego]

According to Rob Gailbrath the final price is $799. Sound like a better deal now?


I think it is funny how people always bash the new products and talk about how they are not much of an upgrade. Do you think Canon makes ugrades to the cameras for people that already own one of their cameras? No! They make the changes to stay competitive ion the NEW market. They figure that once you have a camera and lenses you are in. If you decide to upgrade it usually isn't from a 350D to a 400D for example. It usually is from a 350D to a 30D or 5D or 1D series cameras.

I'd be impressed if the Rebel starts that low. The XT/350D started at 1k(now its in what, the 5-700 range), and dropped fast, but it still started high. The D80 is starting around 1k. So they don't have to drop it too low too fast, because well, as long as its low enough...

As I said before, this is for entry level, to draw in customers from point and shoot high end. And of course its 10mp's is not concidence with the D80's recent announcement with 10mp's and good amount of AF points.

My biggest complaint is the loss of the top LCD screen. I still think its a good job for Canon at what they release to pair up with the D80 because the 350D would get its ass handed to them if it went up against the D80, because newbees usually look at the megapixels and think its best if its higher.

[In2Photos]

I'd be impressed if the Rebel starts that low. The XT/350D started at 1k(now its in what, the 5-700 range), and dropped fast, but it still started high. The D80 is starting around 1k. So they don't have to drop it too low too fast, because well, as long as its low enough...

As I said before, this is for entry level, to draw in customers from point and shoot high end. And of course its 10mp's is not concidence with the D80's recent announcement with 10mp's and good amount of AF points.

My biggest complaint is the loss of the top LCD screen. I still think its a good job for Canon at what they release to pair up with the D80 because the 350D would get its ass handed to them if it went up against the D80, because newbees usually look at the megapixels and think its best if its higher.

Per Rob Gailbrath's site:


The Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi/400D (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256) is slated to ship in mid-September 2006 in the U.S. at an estimated street price of US$799, or US$899 in a kit with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II. The body will be available in both silver and black. The EOS Digital Rebel XT will remain in the lineup, in the U.S. and perhaps other Canon regions too, for at least the rest of 2006. In the U.S. the Rebel XT will have an estimated street price going forward of US$699 for the body and US$799 with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II.


The top LCD might be an issu for some. I really think it comes down to how each person uses it. I don't use it that much. The large LCD has an auto shut off when your face goes up to the VF so I don't think battery life will be affected that much.

BTW congrats on your 5000th.

[grego]

Per Rob Gailbrath's site:



The top LCD might be an issu for some. I really think it comes down to how each person uses it. I don't use it that much. The large LCD has an auto shut off when your face goes up to the VF so I don't think battery life will be affected that much.

BTW congrats on your 5000th.

Yeah, I have seen that price. Hey, for the consummer, its great if it stays at that estimate. It'll defintely beat out Nikon's starting price for the D80(starting body only at around 1k).

Well the thing about the top LCD, is even the G series for instance has it. Its like you get used to it, then lose it, then go back. I think they upgraded it well to compete, but I still find it weary.

That's good about the auto shut off, but turning it on and off all the time, still seems kind of weird. Maybe its just me, even though I came from a Canon AE-1 in my first days.

But regardless of what I think, it'll sell fine. The one thing I do like about Nikon though, is in their lower end(up to the D100/200 series included) is how they don't skimp out. That's my biggest complaint on Canon(but I still love them).

[Feudal1]

Pricing is interesting... $799 for the 400D and $699 for the 350D. Is anyone really going to buy a 350D when just $100 more will buy them a much better camera? I would think $599 would be a better price to get rid of existing 350D inventory.

[ShutterBugL]

Conspicuously absent from Canon's official press release are: larger viewfinder and spot metering. These are my two main complaints about the 350D but Canon does not seem to have addressed this with the 400D. What a pity.

[OpticNein]

they will not address those bec those features are reserved for the upper models. i think the viewfinder fits ths APS-C sensor. Remember, 400D is marketed towards the entry level dslr enthusiast. the features you are looking for are not for entry level.

[Micleg]

Conspicuously absent from Canon's official press release are: larger viewfinder and spot metering. These are my two main complaints about the 350D but Canon does not seem to have addressed this with the 400D. What a pity.

I guess the small body prevents a big viewfinder? Just take a look at the "tower" on top of the flash-less 5D!

I have only been using the old cameras EOS 100 and 50QD and I don't think they have spot metering. I guess I won't miss that part. If they have to sacrifice something to make it cheap I would say they found good selection of functionality and had to drop the rest.

Noone is saying that the entrylevel 400D is going to compete with the more expensive models. Heck, they have to save something for the bodies that cost two, three times or more the money!

I find the one-LCD design rather interesting! Good to have everything at one place and the back, that's where I look since that's where the picture is previewed and the histograms displayed. (The top-LCD:s are usually hard to read due to their limited size and "resolution".) Perhaps one could use some kind of auto-brightness for the LCD so no to lighten up a dark room completely just to change the shutter speed or so.

[Tee Why]

I think it's a nice camera and puts the camera right back into the competition with the Sony alpha and the D80. Now they all have 10MP, 3ps, dust remover, 2.5inch LCD, a large 10RAW buffer....

[pianomatrix]

Does anybody know what date the new Canon stuff is actually going to be released into the market? I need to sell my 70-200mm F4 on ebay before it depreciates :)

[Poco]

There is nothing wrong with the 400D, it seems like a fine new model.

What I don't understand on this forum is why everyone thinks that the newest model of a camera has to be significantly better than the previous one?

When Ford announces the new model of Focus each year I don't hear people saying "Oh, that's hardly worth the upgrade", or "I'll keep my current model a few more years". It is just a new model - they are not specifically trying to get people who bought last year's model to get the new one, they are trying to get people who are buying a new car to choose that one.

Canon could continue to make 350D or they can make the new 400D. There is nothing in the 400D (that I can see) that would make me prefer the 350D. Why not make a new model? If I was purchasing a new camera next year I wouldn't mind buying the 400D instead of the 350D.

[Lightstream]

I guess the small body prevents a big viewfinder? Just take a look at the "tower" on top of the flash-less 5D!

Correct.. I once spoke to a very experienced photographer who's shot just about every format available, and he explained to me that we traded our popup flash on the 5D to make room for the larger prism. So it is not only the prism, it's the size and quality of the prism. Most people think the 5D is all about the full frame sensor, not many realize we paid a premium for a big hunk of polished and coated glass that's not visible till we look through the viewfinder. This is the reason why there are differences even between full frame cameras, I've seen film cameras with a viewfinder that isn't anywhere near as nice as the 5D. It's prism quality. Of course I'm comparing an entry level Rebel film SLR to a higher-end FF DSLR, but the point's pretty much that.

Also, I noticed myself that the 350D and 400D use a pentamirror, not a pentaprism. This has been pointed out by dpreview but just how much difference it made did not strike me until later.

[Micleg]

Yes, I also noticed that the specs said "pentamirror" instead of "pentaprism".

What does this mean? I know what i prism is, but I can't understand how a prism can be better than a mirror? Is it that a mirror can't make the image larger? I guess they could make the prism not only reflect the image 90 degrees but also make it larger. A mirror could not do this.

[tbrasington]

Does anybody know what date the new Canon stuff is actually going to be released into the market? I need to sell my 70-200mm F4 on ebay before it depreciates :)

The Canon Australia site says the 400d will be out for September the 8th, http://www.canon.com.au/eos400d/, so the lenses may appear around then?

[Lightstream]

Was just reading some material that the 50 may be available in September, and the 70-200 in November.

EDIT: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-7897-8529 -- November for both.


I'd give 'em an extra few weeks after their stated introduction times just in case.

[grego]

Correct.. I once spoke to a very experienced photographer who's shot just about every format available, and he explained to me that we traded our popup flash on the 5D to make room for the larger prism. So it is not only the prism, it's the size and quality of the prism. Most people think the 5D is all about the full frame sensor, not many realize we paid a premium for a big hunk of polished and coated glass that's not visible till we look through the viewfinder. This is the reason why there are differences even between full frame cameras, I've seen film cameras with a viewfinder that isn't anywhere near as nice as the 5D. It's prism quality. Of course I'm comparing an entry level Rebel film SLR to a higher-end FF DSLR, but the point's pretty much that.


Well, Canon doesn't think the subtraction of flash is really a comrpomise because most people who would at least buy a 5D(of course their are exceptions), will likely have speedlites or some more advanced lighting setup. It is marketed as a pro camera. :)

[Lightstream]

Well, Canon doesn't think the subtraction of flash is really a comrpomise because most people who would at least buy a 5D(of course their are exceptions), will likely have speedlites or some more advanced lighting setup. It is marketed as a pro camera. :)

Yup. I don't use the flash all the time, but I DO stare through the viewfinder all the time. My reply was "We gave up the flash for THAT awesome prism? HECK YEAH!!" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I love it. Stuff the flash, I'll carry the 430EX.

[rklepper]

Not sure how anyone could consider it anything until it has stood the test of time.


Noone here seems to give the new EOS 400D some slack.

I find it to be a very good update of the 350D! I have already put my name on the list.

Pros and cons of the EOS 400D from my point of view (I have no digital EOS but was close to buy the 30D or 5D this summer):

+ New large display (with better brightness than the 30D and 5D)
+ Only one display (the small one on top is too hard to read on the 30D/5D)
+ Sensor shuts off LCD when you look through the eye-piece
+ Sensor cleaning
+ Better AF system than the 350D
+ New menu system and potentially better image processing than the 350D

- Too small
- 1.6X sensor
- (No sealing)
- (Fragile?)

I plan to buy a full format sensor EOS when there is one worth the money or at least not as "dull" as the 5D. That one is too slow and lacks sealing.

I think I will stay away from EF-S lenses (well, maybe one general EF-S) and put my money in as much "L" lenses as possible even though I buy a "crappy" 400D. I will probably notice that I will get better pictures than with a 30D and non-"L"-lenses.

[Revolver]

I'll very likely be getting one. We will see :)

[ChopstickHero]

personally i like the 10.1mp and the 9 point AF. when i am using my 350D, i always wish there were more AF points in the viewfinder.

[OpticNein]

it's already available here at the local best buy in ohio! check your local best buys.

[AirBrontosaurus]

I am incredibly excited abotu the 400d! It's got a bigger sensor than the 30D, the same AF as the 30D, and costs about $400 less than the 30D!

Too light? I shoot macros on a flash bracket with a full set of extension tubes. Anything to make my setup weigh less is a plus for me.

Build quality? I'm not planning on dropping it anytime soon, and a more rigid frame just means that the force will be dissipated into the ocmponents instead of the shell.

Missing the top LCD? I shoot almost entirely in manual, so I set all the settings myself.

No ISO in the viewfinder? Seems like a very, very small inconvenince to me.

In conclusion: 400D rocks my socks! I can't wait!

[CoolToolGuy]

I am incredibly excited abotu the 400d! It's got a bigger sensor than the 30D, the same AF as the 30D, and costs about $400 less than the 30D!


I know this is not the first time someone has posted it, but let's be accurate: the sensor size is not changed, the 400D/XTi just crams more pixels into it. OMG, that would start a whole new round of crap factor threads.

Have Fun,

[AirBrontosaurus]

I know this is not the first time someone has posted it, but let's be accurate: the sensor size is not changed, the 400D/XTi just crams more pixels into it. OMG, that would start a whole new round of crap factor threads.

Have Fun,

OK, sorry. It's got the same physical size sensor, but has a higher mega-pixel count. Still, I call it a plus.

[CoolToolGuy]

Still, I call it a plus.

I do too, but if someone took the other meaning we could have a five-page thread over it!
:-)

Have Fun,

[AirBrontosaurus]

No, I understand completely. I should have been specific (lest I create another 5 page thread). Thanks for the correction :)!

[bidimagic]

OK, sorry. It's got the same physical size sensor, but has a higher mega-pixel count. Still, I call it a plus.

I'm not sure if an higher megapixel count is always a plus, having the same sensor physical size. Theoretically, it could negatively affect the dynamic range, but maybe this is not the case of 400D.
We'll see very soon !!!