Canon 10D Red Eye Problem

[mmtrask]

I am noticing that my new 10D produces alot of red eye with the built in flash. I will be buying a 550 EX asap but this is troubling. My 35mm Minolta Maxxum 5 did not produce red-eye at all. I am using the 70-200 2.8 IS. Is this unavoidable? Can a different lens (i.e. 25-135) produce different results? What factors other than large pupils contribute to red-eye? Any feedback woul be greatly appreciated. Mike Trask

[PacAce]

mmtrask wrote:
I am noticing that my new 10D produces alot of red eye with the built in flash. I will be buying a 550 EX asap but this is troubling. My 35mm Minolta Maxxum 5 did not produce red-eye at all. I am using the 70-200 2.8 IS. Is this unavoidable? Can a different lens (i.e. 25-135) produce different results? What factors other than large pupils contribute to red-eye? Any feedback woul be greatly appreciated. Mike Trask

Do you get red-eyes even with the red-eye reduction feature turned on?

[mmtrask]

Even with the red-eye strobe it still has red-eye.

[agit-prop]

Try pressing the * button (FE lock) a second or so before you press the shutter. The preflash may help close your subjects pupils if you shoot soon enough after the preflash.

[EXA1a]

mmtrask wrote:
I am noticing that my new 10D produces alot of red eye with the built in flash. I will be buying a 550 EX asap but this is troubling. My 35mm Minolta Maxxum 5 did not produce red-eye at all. I am using the 70-200 2.8 IS. Is this unavoidable? Can a different lens (i.e. 25-135) produce different results? What factors other than large pupils contribute to red-eye? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Mike Trask
There are two factors (provided one person looks straight into the camera):
1. the pupils size. it is depending on ambient light and preflash. keep room light high to avoid large pupils.
2. the angle between the two lines flash-eye and eye-lens. the smaller the angle the redder the eyes (like a deer or cat in the headlights). simply increase lens and flash distance. the 300D has a higher up popping built-in flash. use external flash (420EX or 550EX) with more distance between flash head and lens.

--Jens--

[WestFalcon]

I am a wedding photographer. I use the 550ex flash and found out many years ago that anything over about 135 mm creates a lot of red eye at dark receptions. So, I never use anything over 135 indoors with flash. It has to do with focal length. I use a bracket with the flash about a foot above the lens and that doesn't even help. I use the 28-135 IS lens and do not have a red eye problem. The lens you are using is ok if you stay zoomed to no more than 135 or less and use a bracket like a stroboframe to minimize the effect. I get a lot of red eye with the built in flash especially if the room is dark and the subject is looking right at camera.

[EXA1a]

WestFalcon wrote:
I am a wedding photographer. I use the 550ex flash and found out many years ago that anything over about 135 mm creates a lot of red eye at dark receptions. So, I never use anything over 135 indoors with flash. It has to do with focal length. I use a bracket with the flash about a foot above the lens and that doesn't even help. I use the 28-135 IS lens and do not have a red eye problem. The lens you are using is ok if you stay zoomed to no more than 135 or less and use a bracket like a stroboframe to minimize the effect. I get a lot of red eye with the built in flash especially if the room is dark and the subject is looking right at camera.
I said it has to do with the angle between flash-eye and eye-lens. with a given distance between flash and lens you decrease this angle with object distance. furthermore the red-eye-reduction preflash effect decreases with distance. thus there's an indirect effect of focal length.
--Jens--

[PacAce]

mmtrask wrote:
Even with the red-eye strobe it still has red-eye.

Red-eye strobe???? Are you talking about the little white light beside the lens on the camera body (this is the red-eye reductionlight) or are you talking about the preflash or FA flash bursts emitted by the internal flash (the preflash is for flash exposure and the FA flash bursts are for focus assist).

[DaveG]

WestFalcon wrote:
I am a wedding photographer. I use the 550ex flash and found out many years ago that anything over about 135 mm creates a lot of red eye at dark receptions. So, I never use anything over 135 indoors with flash. It has to do with focal length. I use a bracket with the flash about a foot above the lens and that doesn't even help. I use the 28-135 IS lens and do not have a red eye problem. The lens you are using is ok if you stay zoomed to no more than 135 or less and use a bracket like a stroboframe to minimize the effect. I get a lot of red eye with the built in flash especially if the room is dark and the subject is looking right at camera.

I've used the 550EX in a Stroboframe Pro-T bracket with the 70-200 f.28L lens a lot at commercial assignments and have never gotten red eye. Even when the lens is at 200 (effectively 320 mm). Maybe my 550 just sits higher in the Pro-T bracket than your does.

[PacAce]

WestFalcon wrote:
I am a wedding photographer. I use the 550ex flash and found out many years ago that anything over about 135 mm creates a lot of red eye at dark receptions. So, I never use anything over 135 indoors with flash. It has to do with focal length. I use a bracket with the flash about a foot above the lens and that doesn't even help. I use the 28-135 IS lens and do not have a red eye problem. The lens you are using is ok if you stay zoomed to no more than 135 or less and use a bracket like a stroboframe to minimize the effect. I get a lot of red eye with the built in flash especially if the room is dark and the subject is looking right at camera.

Don't mean to start a controversy but red-eye has nothing directly to do with a lens' focal length. As EXA1a mentioned earlier, it has to do with the angle of the flash and the camera relative to the subject. The narrower that angle, the higher the chances of having red-eyes with the subject looking at the camera.

Ordinarily, a flash bracket takes care of this by increasing the distance between the flash and the lens and hence increasing the angle, assuming one is staying within a "normal" lens range. However, the farther you go away from the subject, the smaller this angle becomes. And when you're using a lenses with higher focal lengths, the tendency is to move away from the subject and that decreases the angle between the flash and camera relative to the subject.

[EXA1a]

Do you guys read other people's replies before you enter a reply? Or is it just that you don't try to understand non-native English speaker's posts like mine?

[PacAce]

EXA1a wrote:
Do you guys read other people's replies before you enter a reply? Or is it just that you don't try to understand non-native English speaker's posts like mine?

I guess I could ask you the exact same question, huh?

[EXA1a]

PacAce wrote:
EXA1a wrote:
Do you guys read other people's replies before you enter a reply? Or is it just that you don't try to understand non-native English speaker's posts like mine?

I guess I could ask you the exact same question, huh?
Sorry, wasn't a reply to your post (look at the time, I sent my message before I read yours) but to the others!

[PacAce]

EXA1a wrote:
PacAce wrote:
EXA1a wrote:
Do you guys read other people's replies before you enter a reply? Or is it just that you don't try to understand non-native English speaker's posts like mine?

I guess I could ask you the exact same question, huh?
Sorry, wasn't a reply to your post (look at the time, I sent my message before I read yours) but to the others!

:D No harm done.

[WestFalcon]

DaveG wrote:
WestFalcon wrote:
I am a wedding photographer. I use the 550ex flash and found out many years ago that anything over about 135 mm creates a lot of red eye at dark receptions. So, I never use anything over 135 indoors with flash. It has to do with focal length. I use a bracket with the flash about a foot above the lens and that doesn't even help. I use the 28-135 IS lens and do not have a red eye problem. The lens you are using is ok if you stay zoomed to no more than 135 or less and use a bracket like a stroboframe to minimize the effect. I get a lot of red eye with the built in flash especially if the room is dark and the subject is looking right at camera.

I've used the 550EX in a Stroboframe Pro-T bracket with the 70-200 f.28L lens a lot at commercial assignments and have never gotten red eye. Even when the lens is at 200 (effectively 320 mm). Maybe my 550 just sits higher in the Pro-T bracket than your does.


DAVEG
My assignments are often in very dark rooms whereas most commercial assignments are in brighter rooms. Pupil size is smaller and that lessons the effect. Some of you on the forum may be correct on flash angle etc but I speak not from theoretical ideas but from actual practice during 30 years of photography. I get so much red eye at 200 mm that I don't use this focal length in dark rooms unless the subject is not looking toward the camera. Whatever the cause, I am not sure of but the final outcome is almost always the same. If my flash were a couple of feet over the camera, I may be able to eliminate the effect but my bracket doesn't reach that high.

[robertwgross]

When I hand-hold my camera, I used to get the red eye problem once in a while, no matter which flash unit I used. Then for weddings, I got a flash bracket to hold the flash unit out off-axis. I've never had a red eye problem since.

---Bob Gross---