2(430EX) + PocketWizards OR 550EX + 430EX OR ?

[Davis]

So... I know there are numerous threads about the flash subject... master/slave, etc. etc., but I'm really struggling with a specific issue and I need some input from the pros.

I already have a 430EX, and I want to have the ability to fire flashes remotely, which will be setup on stands, on the ground, etc. Thing is, if I get the 580EX or 550EX for use on the camera as a master, I'm limited to keeping the master on the camera, and only one remote firing flash, right? Whereas, if I buy another 430EX and some Pocket Wizards, I have the option of firing both of them remotely, but I can't use one as a master. There is of course the third option of buying a 550EX and some Pocket Wizards to have both capabilities. Here's the thing... I want to be able to fire at least two flashes remotely.

I dunno... what are your thoughts on it? Makes me covet Nikon's "Commander Mode" which is built into the cameras now.

I'm open to other routes as well, so gimme your best shot!

[Jon]

Pocket Wizards will run you at least as much as getting a third flash or the ST-E2. You'd need 3 PWs, I think - transmitter on the camera nad a receiver for each flash unit. (Plus you still need the other flash unit, and you won't have E-TTL; you'll have to figure exposure out either via flash meter or by empirical/calculation.) For the price of 3 PWs, you could have another 430EX and a 580EX or a 580EX and an ST-E2. Depending on how far off-camera you want the second flash to be, there's also the off-camera shoe assembly.

[PacAce]

The cheapest route that'll give you just about the same results as the other options is to get the 580EX attached to the camera via a off-shoe cord.

As Jon said, if the only purpose of the PW is to fire the flash(es) remotely, you're better off spending that money on a 580EX which will only cost your $30 more if bought from B&H and you end up with two light sources that work in ETTL mode to boot.

[Davis]

Thanks for the input guys. That's the way I was leaning most of the time.

How long of an off-shoe cord can I get? I think I saw a thread on here somewhere about modding/making your own cable.

[merrrrjig]

The cheapest way will be to go w/ the canon flashes, but you will miss 1/2 the shots and of the 1/2 you make 1/2 will be crap, pocketwizards are the only way to go for wireless stuff! I guess the all canon way would be good in a closed studio

[Faolan]

Have a read of this site, it goes into great detail about Pocket Wizards...

http://strobist.blogspot.com/

Also some great advice about using off shoe flash, note with the Pocket Wizards you will need an adaptor for each flash you tie a pocket wizard to.

http://www.paramountcords.com/pockwiz.asp

So factor in the extra cost.

The Canon infra red system is ok indoors I do a lot of shoots with this method (with a 420/580EX) but outdoors it can get a bit flakey.

[picturecrazy]

+1 for indoors.

My setup is 580 x2 and 430 x2. I use it indoors... it is GREAT. It fires quite reliably, and is convenient to adjust power right on the back of the 580EX.

But as soon as you take it outdoors... it SUCKS. It seriously sucks. I couldn't even get reliable triggering with the slave less than 2 metres away from the master! This is where I break out the pocketwizards... they have been very reliable for me.

so really, it all depends on WHERE you are using it. If you are all indoors, go canon speedlite all the way. If you are always outdoors... go pocketwizards and cheaper but equally effective manual flashes like Vivitar 283 or nikon sb-24. If you do both indoors and outdoors, which is what I do, then go for manual speedlites (580, 550, 430) + pocketwizards... which is very painful on the pocketbook... :cry:

[Davis]

+1 for indoors.

My setup is 580 x2 and 430 x2. I use it indoors... it is GREAT. It fires quite reliably, and is convenient to adjust power right on the back of the 580EX.

But as soon as you take it outdoors... it SUCKS. It seriously sucks. I couldn't even get reliable triggering with the slave less than 2 metres away from the master! This is where I break out the pocketwizards... they have been very reliable for me.

so really, it all depends on WHERE you are using it. If you are all indoors, go canon speedlite all the way. If you are always outdoors... go pocketwizards and cheaper but equally effective manual flashes like Vivitar 283 or nikon sb-24. If you do both indoors and outdoors, which is what I do, then go for manual speedlites (580, 550, 430) + pocketwizards... which is very painful on the pocketbook... :cry:

Thanks picturecrazy, that's valuable advice. I had a feeling that the best way to go would end up being flashes AND pocketwizards, unfortunately. Thing is, I will be shooting some outside, and need them to be reliable over an extended distance.

Well, time to start saving!!!!

[FlashZebra]

If you are going to be using radio slaves that do not allow the E-TTL function, why insist on the extremely expensive Canon Speedlights, since the radio slaves negate all E-TTL function anyway.

Get your self a couple of battery powered, high output, manual control, flash units like the Sunpak 383 (or other capable unit) and the radio sync units, and just forget the Canon 580EX. With the radio slaves you will be using manual mode on the 580EX anyway, so why throw all that cash for function you will not be able to use with radio slaves.

The Sunpak 383 is just $80.00 new, this is 20% of the cost of a Canon 580EX.

So get your pocket wizards and a Sunpak 383 (or three) and have at it, no need to save for that $400.00 Canon 580EX.

See:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52799&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Enjoy! Lon

[Davis]

Very interesting Lon, that's a good way to approach it. I forgot about the fact that you lose the E-TTL functionality with the pocketwizards. I guess the only way to keep that functionality would be the ST-E2. And, if I'm going to get an ST-E2, then why not just get a 550EX because the ST-E2 is just a 550EX with no flash on it, basically.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here. I will definitely look into doing that instead though, Lon. Thanks for the input!

[FlashZebra]

Very interesting Lon, that's a good way to approach it. I forgot about the fact that you lose the E-TTL functionality with the pocketwizards. I guess the only way to keep that functionality would be the ST-E2. And, if I'm going to get an ST-E2, then why not just get a 550EX because the ST-E2 is just a 550EX with no flash on it, basically.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here. I will definitely look into doing that instead though, Lon. Thanks for the input!
The cost to preserve the E-TTL function of a two or three light setup using Canon Speedlights will exceed the cost of just purchasing very capable set of dedicated studio lights. Two 580EX units and one ST-2E unit cost about $1000.00.

From scratch ad hoc studios based on Canon Speedlights are not efforts to save cash, they are exercises in spending cash. There may be very distinct advantages to the all Canon approach, but minimizing cash spent is not on the attribute list.

If you already have the flash units, then it might be a lot easier on the pocket.

Enjoy! Lon

[picturecrazy]

Yes, that is why I mentioned in my last post that if you are going to be using this primarily outdoors with pocketwizards... use some cheaper flashes... there is no benefit in getting speedlites unless you do a lot of indoor work too and want to preserve ETTL-2.

[Davis]

Thanks guys... this is all valuable input. I think what I will end up doing is getting a 580EX, as I was planning to get that anyway, and then play with using that and my 430EX. Then, I may go pick up one of those Sunpacks and play with it. I think I will start getting a better idea of what I want to get and the direction I want to go once I start playing around :D

For what it's worth, I was thinking against Alien Bees or something similar just because of the portability factor. Flashes are something you can take anywhere, and I'm not sure I'm ready for a dedicated studio light setup.

[FlashZebra]

Thanks guys... this is all valuable input. I think what I will end up doing is getting a 580EX, as I was planning to get that anyway, and then play with using that and my 430EX. Then, I may go pick up one of those Sunpacks and play with it. I think I will start getting a better idea of what I want to get and the direction I want to go once I start playing around :D

For what it's worth, I was thinking against Alien Bees or something similar just because of the portability factor. Flashes are something you can take anywhere, and I'm not sure I'm ready for a dedicated studio light setup.
Not having battery power is a big issue.

But, do not overlook that by passing on flash units specifically designed for studio use you are giving up many very tangible attributes. Including:


Much greater light output (this is a very important issue)
Loss of modeling lights
Easy (and relatively inexpensive) accommodation of a wide variety of light modifiers
Easy AC power use (batteries have an upside, but so does that AC wall outlet)
Flash design focused on studio use, not as "make do" function.
No clunky afterthought mechanical and electrical adapters needed
Remember that the price of a Canon 580EX plus the cost of a Canon 430EX is about the same cost as a set of two Alien Bee studio flash heads. In fact, I suspect the Alien Bee units would be less expensive.

Enjoy! Lon

[Davis]

Hey Lon, thanks for the input.

I went by the local ProPhoto Connection here in Irvine, CA (I'm sure many of you have been there), and saw some Pro Photo dual flash-head kits that looked extremely attractive. Rechargeable, etc. etc. Very nice.

I think I'm going to rent some stuff and see how I like it.

[merrrrjig]

pocketwizards or bust, the canon infared system outdoors is a joke

[KRM]

Using it outdoors depends upon the situation. I've used it outdoors with success with my 580EX and ST-E2. If you don't want to give up your ETTL outdoors in tricky situations, try some radio poppers.

[pmk]

me covet Nikon's "Commander Mode" which is built into the cameras now.


Pretty stupid of Canon to put us this this position. I'm in the same boat as you. Will Canon get it together to offer off camera flash control in next year's models? I hope so.

Personally, I'm going to use the $30 rebate to pick up a 580EX II. However, I'm a bit bummed that over the last couple of days Amazon has raised their price by about $30, basically negating any rebates.

pmk

[unforgettablefaces]

Elinchrome Skyports are the way to go. Do whatever you like with the flashes, but instead of spending $180.00 a piece for Pocketwizards spend substantially less for the Skyports. They're very reliable indoors and out. Skyports transmit less distance than Pocketwizards but are awesome.

[splitfyre]

What's the difference in distance between a Skyport and a PW?

[splitfyre]

I am tempted to just sell off my 430EX and buy a second 580 EXII.

[FlashZebra]

Using it outdoors depends upon the situation. I've used it outdoors with success with my 580EX and ST-E2. If you don't want to give up your ETTL outdoors in tricky situations, try some radio poppers.
Do you realize this is a thread that is almost 2 years old?

Enjoy! Lon

[KRM]

Do you realize this is a thread that is almost 2 years old?

Enjoy! Lon

Nope, I sure didn't, but it's still interesting information!