automatically change ISO?

[gordeaux]

It occured to me that there might be a way to shoot with a 10D defining the aperture + the shutter speed and have the camera figure out what the ISO setting should be.

I was trying to get seagull pictures late in the day from the stern of a boat and realized that in low light, my only tool to get the picture was to keep changing the ISO. For film cameras there is no way to change the ISO on every group of shots. But shouldn't there be a way to do it on a digital camera like the 10D?

Anybody else thought of this? Know of a way to do it? Think of why it wouldn't help in this kind of situation? Know if it's coming on a future model?

[defordphoto]

There is no auto-ISO mode on these cameras.

[iwatkins]

I reckon we should set up a petition..... http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smile4.gif

I think we have discussed this before. i.e. the option to have the ISO change automatically inline with Av, Tv and M modes. I.e. if you are in Av mode it sees what aperture you have selected. It then reads the metered shutter speed required. It compares this with the current focal length. If focal length is greater than the inverse of the the shutter speed, then to automatically bump the ISO up to compensate. It would aim for the lowest ISO at all times though.

E.g. In Av mode you select an aperture of f8. The meter returns a shutter speed of 1/100th. It reads the focal length as 200mm. It then bumps up the ISO until the calculation gives a shutter speed of 1/200th or better (or some amount over).

I think this is a great idea (wasn't mine, maybe CDS's ?) and wouldn't be hard to implement. I think I'm right in saying it would be software only ?

Cheers

Ian

[PacAce]

iwatkins wrote:
I reckon we should set up a petition..... http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smile4.gif

I think we have discussed this before. i.e. the option to have the ISO change automatically inline with Av, Tv and M modes. I.e. if you are in Av mode it sees what aperture you have selected. It then reads the metered shutter speed required. It compares this with the current focal length. If focal length is greater than the inverse of the the shutter speed, then to automatically bump the ISO up to compensate. It would aim for the lowest ISO at all times though.

E.g. In Av mode you select an aperture of f8. The meter returns a shutter speed of 1/100th. It reads the focal length as 200mm. It then bumps up the ISO until the calculation gives a shutter speed of 1/200th or better (or some amount over).

I think this is a great idea (wasn't mine, maybe CDS's ?) and wouldn't be hard to implement. I think I'm right in saying it would be software only ?

Cheers

Ian


If I'm in Av mode and have my camera on a tripod, why would I care if the camera selects 1/100 instead of 1/200? I'll take a slow shutter with good "grain" over fast shutter and bad "grain".

However, I wouldn't mind a manual setting with auto ISO such as, say, Mi, where I would set the Av and the Tv and then the camera would set the ISO appropriately to get a good exposure. :)

[BrettD]

The newest Canon IS lenses don't need to have IS turned off when tripod mounted (unless I am mistaken), so does that mean the lense knows how steadily (or not) it is being held?

Now Minolta's A1 has IS built into the camera...

Put these 2 together, and the next Canon DSLR could have all lenses stabilized, AND use the current level of 'shake' to work out the required shutter speed and THEN bump ISO as needed.
(a custom function could let the user turn it on or off, and adjust the 'steadyness setting' up or down a few stops)

Now that's a camera I would sell my 10D for!

Brett D

[robertwgross]

pacace wrote:
If I'm in Av mode and have my camera on a tripod, why would I care if the camera selects 1/100 instead of 1/200? I'll take a slow shutter with good "grain" over fast shutter and bad "grain".


Somebody had mentioned that they were shooting seagulls from the stern of a boat. Even with a tripod, the faster shutter would be an advantage to offset the wave action rocking of the boat. Of course, a completely different pivot type head on the tripod could offset even more.

With a digital image, even if too much color noise shows, a great deal of it can be processed out with Neat Image. On the other hand, if you have motion blur, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate.

---Bob Gross---

[PacAce]

robertwgross wrote:
pacace wrote:
If I'm in Av mode and have my camera on a tripod, why would I care if the camera selects 1/100 instead of 1/200? I'll take a slow shutter with good "grain" over fast shutter and bad "grain".


Somebody had mentioned that they were shooting seagulls from the stern of a boat. Even with a tripod, the faster shutter would be an advantage to offset the wave action rocking of the boat. Of course, a completely different pivot type head on the tripod could offset even more.

With a digital image, even if too much color noise shows, a great deal of it can be processed out with Neat Image. On the other hand, if you have motion blur, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate.

---Bob Gross---


Hi, Bob,

I agree with every word you wrote. However, the point I was trying to make is if I'm in Av mode and have my camera on a tripod, my shutter speed would not be of primary concern to me. If it were, I would have put the camera in Tv mode.

:)

[robertwgross]

PacAce, I understand.

I'm sorry, but I come from the old, old school. My first SLR film camera had Tv only, and that was my only camera for 15 years. I got my head set that Tv was the only way to go. Even now, my mind reverts back to Tv mode.

---Bob Gross---

[samdring]

RFMSports wrote:
There is no auto-ISO mode on these cameras.
Is this quite right?
Auto mode on the 10D has auto-ISO and, therefore, a software upgrade would appear possible to permit the same in Av etc?

[Jim_T]

Yes.. When set to the green square, the ISO is completely up to the camera and the user has no input. The ISO selection disappears from the menu.

Rather than a camera variable ISO, I'd just like to see the setting easier to adjust. It would be nice to be able to set the ISO just like you do now with aperture/shutter speed and see it in the viewfinder display.

Maybe one more small thumbwheel. :)

[gordeaux]

samdring wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
There is no auto-ISO mode on these cameras.
Is this quite right?
Auto mode on the 10D has auto-ISO and, therefore, a software upgrade would appear possible to permit the same in Av etc?



Somehow I'd stopped looking at the "auto" modes, but you're right about the ISO switching to "auto" there. Thanks for the idea.

However, the "auto" modes only generate JPG files, not raw. Is there a way to get raw files from these "auto" modes? Is there any way to get raw files with ISO operating in "auto" mode?

[defordphoto]

gordeaux wrote:
samdring wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
There is no auto-ISO mode on these cameras.
Is this quite right?
Auto mode on the 10D has auto-ISO and, therefore, a software upgrade would appear possible to permit the same in Av etc?



Somehow I'd stopped looking at the "auto" modes, but you're right about the ISO switching to "auto" there. Thanks for the idea.

However, the "auto" modes only generate JPG files, not raw. Is there a way to get raw files from these "auto" modes? Is there any way to get raw files with ISO operating in "auto" mode?

Ahh yeah in those pre-programmed modes it does pick ISO. Seems whenever I used them it's always picked 400, so that's why I said no.

But, no there is not a way to get auto-ISO and shoot RAW. BTW, no one has asked: What's the point of this?

[gordeaux]

The point is this:

I'm trying to take pictures of seagulls floating at the stern of a fishing boat. It's dusk. I want to be able to set the shutter speed + set the aperture, then have the camera pick the ISO to make the shot expose properly.

Film couldn't do this, but the digital camera should be able to. That's the point. Use the ISO that works with the preset shutter speed and aperture.

[defordphoto]

gordeaux wrote:
The point is this:

I'm trying to take pictures of seagulls floating at the stern of a fishing boat. It's dusk. I want to be able to set the shutter speed + set the aperture, then have the camera pick the ISO to make the shot expose properly.

Film couldn't do this, but the digital camera should be able to. That's the point. Use the ISO that works with the preset shutter speed and aperture.

Okay. That's just an odd request. I had never heard that before. The pre-programmed modes will do that, I guess, but I'm not sure how well it works. Most of use set the ISO manually and then use TV/AV/P or whatever to make the shot.

Interesting approach though. I'll have to experiment with it and see how well it does. Doesn't sound like anyone else has played with this much either.

[Belmondo]

It's not such a bad idea when you think about it. You can manually control shutter speed and depth of field for specific effects, and let the ISO adjust for exposure. Do I feel a petition coming on?

[defordphoto]

belmondo wrote:
It's not such a bad idea when you think about it. You can manually control shutter speed and depth of field for specific effects, and let the ISO adjust for exposure. Do I feel a petition coming on?

ROFLMAO! Actually, I had never thought about it before. Don't know how much of use it'd be for me as I don't get quite that picky when I'm shooting, but it's a kind of a sideways approach to how everone else seems to have been trained to shoot.

And that's all a rollover from film really. You set the ISO (insert different roll of film if using film, or just push it when processing) and THEN set the aperture and shutter.

There's no reason why it can't be the other way around. Once the manufacturers (and us too) get past the old ways of shooting, we're going to see some pretty cool features coming out on these new cameras.

We'll then be shopping for features instead of sensors.

This is a great subject. Now that I see what Gordeaux's goals are, I'm kinda liking this approach.

Now I want to experiment!

[DaveG]

I'm not sure what the problem is. You can change the ISO right now to maintain the shutterspeed/aperture combination. I'd be very leary of letting the camera automatically pick the ISO. Say I was doing a shoot. The camera could pick any number of different ISO's and then I'd have no consistency etween "noise/grain" in these shots.

A bride and groom for example wouldn't understand why THIS shot (ISO 100) could be made into an 11x14 but THAT shot (ISO3200) should be kept smaller. I could sell the idea and defects of an ISO 3200 shot if it was done under very low light levels, but I how do I explain the difference in the quality of group shots that are done at the same time, but under changing cloud conditions?

I know that with all automatic exposure controls you still need to have your head inside of the camera, so YOU make the final decisions, not the equipment. But I also think that letting the camera choose 1/1000 @ f8 to 1/500 @ f11 inadvertantly wouldn't have the same effect of going from ISO 400 to 800.

I'm sure that it's not all that difficult for Canon to have one more program setting but I don't think that I'd every use it.

[CyberDyneSystems]

A lot of Digicams do offer an auto iso function.. my ole Olymous had it.

Obviously,. the 10D and most DSLRs do not.
I assume this is to prevent a sudden jump to 1600 ISO when unexpected ??

I think it might be a handy setting under some situations.. in fact it would have saved a few of my own photos.. I tend to forget to switch the ISO back down to a reasonable level... often after bumping up the ISO the evening prior as it gets darker...

So I have a number of images taken the following days in strong sunlight where I had left the ISO up at 800-1600 :(

What I really need to do though is just engrave a big sign on the back of my 10D saying "CHECK ISO"!!!