10D Autofocus for Sports vs. D60

[GenEOS]

OK 10D owners, gotta question for you....

I am currently shooting a D60, that I picked up before the 10D's made their debut. At the time I was shooting mostly stills and spot news. Now, my assignments have shifted to mostly sports, night & indoor sports, to be more accurate.

I love my D60, it takes great pictures and does a good job, generally speaking. But, as many D60 owners know, it is not that great in the focusing department. For most my sports, I find I am at the right place and moment for a good shot, but the camera cannot focus fast enough to get it. So I end up with many blurred shots, because the camera focussed on the background and not the subject.

I have found some techniques that help with this, but it is getting aggrivating to deal with.

If I can get my hands on a 10D and test it, I am. But in the mean time, I would like some opinions on whether or not, the improvements in the 10D help in the field of sports photogrpahy. If not, I am going to pass, until I can afford the 1D or it's soon to appear replacement.

Any opinions from owners of D30/D60/10D owners is greatly appreciated. Any sample image galleries would be even better!

Thanks in advance,

[Motorsports Photo]

GenEOS wrote:
I love my D60, it takes great pictures and does a good job, generally speaking. But, as many D60 owners know, it is not that great in the focusing department. For most my sports, I find I am at the right place and moment for a good shot, but the camera cannot focus fast enough to get it. So I end up with many blurred shots, because the camera focussed on the background and not the subject.


Ahh if only they would put the eye controlled autofocus of the A2E in our cameras!

D30 and 10D owner- While the 10D does do beter at autofocus that the D30, my experience with sports is the 10D isnt THAT much better! I had hoped it would be.

I can say that if you are shooting ANYTHING that moves, switch to ai Servo.

-Pete

[GenEOS]

Is the Servo mode better than the D30/60 with the 7-point focus system?

[GenEOS]

Does anyone have anything to add to this thread? It got lost, I am really looking forward to other D60/10D users input...

Thanks

[IndyJeff]

GenEos my suggestion would be to stay away from the Al Servo, it will slow down the burst rate. I don't know what type of sports you are shooting but I do racing. I foucus on the base of the wall or a point on the track then pan left until I hear the focus shift. Go back and focus on the original point now pan right until you hear the focus activate. I now have a range which will be in focus for anything that happens in that range.
When I have done basketball games I focus on a point on the floor and use the same principal. You have to anticipate where the action will be.
With the Al Servo in active mode the camera is evaluating between every frame.
Let me give an example here.....during a crash in a race, I can get a burst of 8 frames without AlServo on. With it on I might get 4 or 5 during the same amount of time.
Now I know someone will follow this and say I am wrong but at one race this year I got 5 frames on a crash that another guy had 8 on with his D60 and the same lens I had. He was right next to me and had basically the same angle but he had the explosion of parts that my images didn't have because the camera was evaluating.

[defordphoto]

Actually you are right Jeff. I have also noticed that. AI has some advantages, but you do give a little in frame bursts.

[defordphoto]

GenEOS: I have both cameras but have not tested the two to see if there is any AF difference in full light. The D60 low-light weakness is well known. Not sure about full-light. Any test would be subjective anyway. I have no way to time it other than just play with it and say yes-or-no it's faster/slower.

If you can afford to buy and/or wait for the 1D and/or its replacement, that's the cat's meow when it comes to a pro sports cam. Hands down. The D60 and 10D are good and you see a ton of both cameras in the hands of pro sports shooters, but the 1D is Rolls Royce material by a long shot.

[GenEOS]

I guess I am going to have to try one out somehow. If it acts a little better in low light and I can make it work, I will probably get one and use the D60 as a back up or for sideline shots.

My main problem is getting the darn thing to focus on the players faast enough to get the shots. I normally set the camera to focus with the ae-lock button and trigger the shots with the shutter. That helps a lot for soccer/football. Basketball is another story.

I have a 70-200 f2.8 IS at that is my primary lens. Problem is, most everything I hoot is in poorly lit fields or buildings. If the 10D would focus in these conditions like a D60 does in well lit conditions, I would lean towards getting on. That way I keep all the same accessories and batteries.

I am going to see how long it takes me to get totally fed up with it, before I jump into a new one. I would love to get a 1D, but I don't want to pour out $3000 and then 2 weeks later its replacement come out for 2000 and kicks its butt in performance...

We will see. Thanks for the input.

[defordphoto]

In low-light focusing the 10D blows the D60 off the planet. I've shot nighttime soccer and indoor -- also with the 70-200L f2.8 and have had zero focusing issues with the 10D.

[That One Guy]

Motorsports Photo wrote:

Ahh if only they would put the eye controlled autofocus of the A2E in our cameras!

D30 and 10D owner- While the 10D does do beter at autofocus that the D30, my experience with sports is the 10D isnt THAT much better! I had hoped it would be.

I can say that if you are shooting ANYTHING that moves, switch to ai Servo.

-Pete





I disagree.

The 10D is a lot better than the D30. I came from using the D30 for soccer, bike, football, baseball, and basketball sports....and somehow I managed to barely keep my job. Today, there is no problem becaue for the sports and 99% of my other work, I use my 10D. The shot I include was imposible to shoot with my D30......there was no cropping on the hight but just a little on the right to crop it to an 8x10. Look for yourself to see the other galleries of sports which were taken with the 10D.

http://www.pbase.com/image/19308384.jpg

[GenEOS]

" ....and somehow I managed to barely keep my job. "

I can truley appreciate this comment......

[BobbyC]

These were shot with the 10D - AI Servo:

This was panned with the lowly 75-300 3.5-5.6:

http://gulfimagesphoto.com/bsm/crw_0920_std.jpg

These are with the 70-200L f4:

http://gulfimagesphoto.com/bsm/crw_0957_std.jpg

http://gulfimagesphoto.com/bsm/crw_0955_std.jpg

I've used AI-Servo with great success on both a D30 and 10D, here's a D30 shot:

http://gulfimagesphoto.com/pictures/racing/car/4467.jpg

[KennyG]

GenEOS wrote:
Does anyone have anything to add to this thread? It got lost, I am really looking forward to other D60/10D users input...

Thanks

I'll give you comments on running a couple of 10D's for motorsport over six months.

Comparing them with a D60 I borrowed back in April for a couple of shoots I find the 10D AF much faster. AI does work BUT only use the centre focus point. Any more and its too slow. You do sometimes find yourself re-composing on-the-fly with AI, but I do it with the 1D as well.

One thing not to be overlooked is the 10D's ability to crank up the ISO beyond what the D60 could handle and still get a clean image. This gives you better control over shutter speed.

Nearly all the shots in my gallery (sorry, it is under development so back-buttons etc. not added yet) were with a 10D and a 100-400L. The majority used AI.

[GenEOS]

So which do you shoot the most? 1D or 10D?

[KennyG]

GenEOS wrote:
So which do you shoot the most? 1D or 10D?


The 1D is a relatively recent edition so everything on my site is with the 10D until I get round to updating it.

The 1D is in a different league when it comes to action shots. I am not a 'spray and pray' shooter, so ultra fast continuous shooting isn't the big thing for me, its the weatherproofing, faultless AF and big buffer that I picked it for.

I nearly always shoot with two bodies. One with either the 500L F4IS or the 300L F2.8IS and the other with the 100-400L. The 10D is my preference in the pit lane and for portraits. It has a better noise performance in low light, and I use it with the 70-200L F2.8 or the 85 F1.8. I need both, so they would get about equal use at most circuits.

Strange as it may sound, but if I had to pick one all-round camera to do motorsport photography, some portrait work and the odd indoor event, it would be the 10D rather than the 1D.

[andrej]

I have the same experience with my D60. I shoot a loot of soccer matches and a lot of images are out of focus. And I mean a lot! I also find D60 too slow. Sometimes the camera doesn’t focus fast enough so when I press the shutter nothing happens. At other times the camera takes the image almost a second later that I press the shutter.

Once I was at an event that took place in a room with really bad lighting. No matter what I did my D60 couldn’t focus. At first I thought it was my lens, but then I used the same lens as on 10D. 10D focused immediately, D60 never. I had to use manual focus to get the photo.

I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to sell D60 really cheap and upgrade to 10D. Apart from low light focus 10D isn’t that much better. I also don’t want to buy 1D right now, just to find out new, cheaper and better camera is released in few months time… If I knew the price and the time frame for the next 1D this decision would be much easier….

Oh, you can take a look at my, mainly sports gallery here (http://www.budja.net/gallery).

[defordphoto]

Actually there is a fix for the D60's low light focus problem. It's the ST-E2 Speedlite transmitter. I've never used it, so I am only going by what I read, but the ST-E2 will basically provide the camera with infra-red focus-assist and cure most of the low-light focus situations -- within limits of course:

Read more here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/st-e2.shtml

[andrej]

Hm, 420EX should do the same, but it's not working for me. Am I doing something wrong? I tried all the settings for custom Fn. 5 but nothing happens. The flash just doesn't emit... Any ideas?

[andrej]

okay, I found the answer:

"
An important thing to remember is that the AF assist light works only if your camera is in One-shot mode - it will not illuminate in AI Servo or in any icon AE mode which employs AI Servo, such as the Sports mode.
"

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index3.html#bounce

I printed and read this guide before, but I guess I missed this information... ;)