Whoever I gave advice to earlier...

[KasiaFan]

...ignore it. I obviously have no clue what I'm doing, as my photos from tonight will attest to.

Ok, this is Laura Cheadle at the Swedes Inn in New Jersey. I was using my XT with the 50mm 1.4 lens, no flash, 1.4 apeture, ISO 800-1600. In PP I adjusted white balance and brightness, cropped, sized, sharpened.

One problem I had was that she was wearing black and only had some low lights on her, while everthing behind her was white with a bright light on it.
She also had the mic stand from hell... it was a horizontal bar running out to the left, blocking any good shots from that side.

Whatever I try I don't seem to be able to get sharp shots. I used the center focus point and aimed it at her face, but most of them look out of focus, there's no detail in the hair, I think the guy next to me taking pictures with his cell phone probably did better. I can't figure out if it's me, my settings, the lens, do I need to use flash, should I find a new hobby?

Anyway, these are some of the better shots. the third one was when they were about to start and I was taking a couple of test shots, would have been a good one if she was in focus. The drummer didn't turn out too bad, but then he was lit better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ssbob/LC_0571_8x6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ssbob/LC_0528_8x6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ssbob/LC_0515_8x6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ssbob/LC_0566_8x6.jpg

[cdifoto]

Looks like your shutter speed was just way too slow and/or you missed focus completely. In the 3rd one, for example, you focused on the band and not her.

Low light/action-ish stuff is always a challenge.

[johnstoy]

KasiaFan,

Any way to retrieve the lens properties of each shot from the camera's memory if available? I use spot metering when ever there is time to set up for same ...or just keep it on spot metering....the 50.1.4 is pretty good for me so far. Even with the other 50 1.8 lens, i got an awsome protrait of an entertainer last month.

Otherwise, Evaluative Metering takes over too often with peripheral distractions. :o

Mine problem is retaining one manual metering feature set while trying to set the other two or three variables. I did not have these problems before with the Canon 35mm SLR's. :rolleyes:

Hopefully other readers will respond with your solution suggestions.:D

John Stoy

Mine Equip. (all Canon): 30D Body, 50mm 1.4 USM, 50mm 1.8, 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 not USM kit stock, 28-135mm 3.5-5.6 IS USM Wide Angle Telezoom, 75-300mm 4.0-5.6 Telezoom, RS-80N3, several tripods, mono pod, no flash yet, dozens of filters/close up lenses.

[KasiaFan]

I got a couple of shots before they turned on the lights behind her, including the 3rd one here, that's why her skin tone is closer to the people in the background on that one. When the lights went on and I saw that it was going to be a problem I tried the XT's other two metering settings for a couple of shots.. they didn't seem to make much difference.

I printed out some test patterns and tried some test shots.. from 5 feet away in a reasonably well lit room I got some awfully soft shots. I think the best I got was when I switched to basic no-flash mode and let the camera figure the settings.

I think I'm going to hit the stores and pick up a couple of photography books... I'm getting to old for this steep of a learning curve ;)

[johnstoy]

KasiaFan,

Hang in there young lady....it's just a matter of trial and error with the dial once...then again while the previous fixed settings are expected to stay in place...these setting variables must fall into place after just a few tries. :rolleyes:

How's that for an answer from a newbee. It was all on the lens rings of the old 35mm film camera once and the ASA/ISO had a dial.....It still shouldn't be such a big deal....:rolleyes:

Try Amazon.com for books or even Walmart.com...you'll get Walmart's books a few day's sooner. (I'd shoot around the house first in all the different settings offered and combinations of settings in manual first.) You'd be done with it in hours while the books won't get to you for a while.

From a newbee to the digital SLR,

John Stoy

(PS: this is from a family member/owner of several book stores, for over 3 decades, now retired.)

Mine Equip. (all Canon): 30D Body, 50mm 1.4 USM, 50mm 1.8, 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 not USM kit stock, 28-135mm 3.5-5.6 IS USM Wide Angle Telezoom, 75-300mm 4.0-5.6 Telezoom, RS-80N3, several tripods, mono pod, no flash yet, dozens of filters/close up lenses.

[Dellboy]

Hi,
IMO the only thing wrong with these shots is that they're not in focus and in low light this is always going to be a problem. There are a few options too help you overcome these issues.

Use manual focus - not easy on on XT and you'll probably only have a few keepers.

Buy an ST-E2 unit, this gives you the red focusing grid that you find on most camera flashs but with the added advantage of not having to use flash. This is the only method ( known to me at least ) of being able to use a red grid focusing aid and not emmitting any flash.

Use flash with a diffuser and /or bounce it. Not ideal if available light shots are what you want but it will certainly help with your % of keepers if you don't have an St-E2 unit. Use it as a fill in to insure that its output is kept to a minimum The vibe of the gig and most of the ambient lighting should then be retained.

Hope this helps you some, Dellboy.

[KasiaFan]

I guess I should point out that I'm neither young, nor a lady. No, my new avatar is not me, lol.


What's the advantage of the ST-E2 over the normal auto focus?

[Dellboy]

The ST-E2 emits a red grid patterned light which lands on your subject and gives the camera a "contrasty" image on which your camera can focus. This can be found in exactly the same form as the Canon 550EX flash. Of couse once focus has been found it stops emitting and there is no sign of it on your pix.

It works very well and fast focus can be acheived even in complete darkness and on a plain featureless wall.

As stated in my previous post this is the only way, that I know of, to use this aid and use absolutely no flash what-so-ever. The only draw back this unit is that on non 1 series cameras the top and bottom focusing points ( in landscape mode ) do not activate the red grid ( same as the 550EX ) but of you can live with that it is excellent.

[johnstoy]

[quote=Dellboy]The ST-E2 emits a red grid patterned light which lands on your subject and gives the camera a "contrasty" image on which your camera can focus.

How is this item made abailable on the retail level? I tried to search for it at Adorama.com, a major NYC retailer, didn't find it.

Approx. how much is it?

John

[Dellboy]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/st-e2.shtml

This is a link to a full review and the functions of the ST-E2

I bought mine from Hong Kong on eBay as I too didn't find it readily available. I payed ( from memory ) about £110 ( $200 ) inc delivery.

Here's a link on Ebay Uk for one at £95 ( $180 )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Speedlite-Transmitter-ST-E2-STE2-fr-430EX-580EX_W0QQitemZ190025515185QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2998 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Hope this helps, Dellboy.

[johnstoy]

[quote=Dellboy]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/st-e2.shtml
This is a link to a full review and the functions of the ST-E2


Thanks Dellboy,
Great response from you....I'm totally impressed that you have your act so totally together.....

I saved the web page for future reference as needs arise. It's a beautiful pc. of technology....

Why flash when you can use this for precission...I like it...:)

John

[Sam]

I don't think it was said, but my 50mm lens has a tough time with autofocus in low light. Try another lens... it may help your shots. I always thought it was funny that a fast lens couldn't autofocus in low light.

Maybe it's my copy?

[René Damkot]

A few points: - The ST-E2 (or a ETTL flash) will only emit the AF assist light when the camera is on One Shot AF. That makes it a lot less usefull IMO.
- The AF sensors are actually quite a bit bigger then the red rectangles in the VF, that's why the camera probabely focussed on the (well lit, cotrasty) background on #3 instead of on the (darker) singer.

I see no EXIF, but it looks like the shutterspeeds were high enough. It's just the focus thats off. Did you use One Shot or AI Servo AF?
In One Shot you can't release the shutter unless the camera thinks focus is achieved. That might be helpfull, but you can also get an OoF image, because either you or the subject moved between aquiring AF and firing the shutter....

On AI Servo you can expose anytime you want, but that also means you can take a picture when AF is not possible (blinking green dot in the VF) or when the camera has not yet achieved focus...
Lastly, the 50/1.4 is not the best lens for AF in low light IMO. (Allthough it's a lot better then the 50/1.8 )

[narlus]

Rene, what lens do you reckon works the best for AF in lowlight?

i had a humbling experience last night...1st show to shoot w/ 30D, loads of light, hot band (sonic youth). the rate of keepers was less than shooting w/ my 350D i think. not sure what's up but focus was an issue for sure. also, my 30D sensor seems WAY noiser than the 350D; is that possible?

[KasiaFan]

I loked at the EXIF in the RAW files, all were done at F/1.4, the first three were at ISO 800, last one ISO 200, and the shutter speeds were 1/50, 1/30/ 1/20, and 1/50 top to bottom. Do those sound pretty normal? Should I try a smaller apeture to get more depth of focus?

I had the auto-focus set to just the center point, I'd put that dot right on her face, let it focus, and then reframe the shot, I was hoping this way I would get her face in focus instead of her arm or guitar. I tried to make sure she didn't move closer or further from the time it focused till the time I shot, if she did I refocused.

The camera didn't seem to have any trouble focusing, it wasn't doing a lot of seeking, the little dot would blink almost right away every time.

Also you can't judge the focus by the third pic, I wasn't trying to focus on her on that one, I included it to show the difference in lighting.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[René Damkot]

Rene, what lens do you reckon works the best for AF in lowlight?

i had a humbling experience last night...1st show to shoot w/ 30D, loads of light, hot band (sonic youth). the rate of keepers was less than shooting w/ my 350D i think. not sure what's up but focus was an issue for sure. also, my 30D sensor seems WAY noiser than the 350D; is that possible?
The SY shots you posted look good...
Of my lenses, I think the 80-200L is the best focussing, closely followed by the 100/2.0. (The last one is more critical obviously, since it is a stop faster)
The 50/1.4 is decent with slow moving targets, but has a hard time otherwise sometimes.
Often when AF is off, it turns out to be something I did wrong however ;)
I think it always takes a little time to get to know a camera inside out. Take a look at *why* images are OoF, so you can avoid it next time...

About the 30D beeing noisier then the 350D; I don't think that should be the case...

I loked at the EXIF in the RAW files, all were done at F/1.4, the first three were at ISO 800, last one ISO 200, and the shutter speeds were 1/50, 1/30/ 1/20, and 1/50 top to bottom. Do those sound pretty normal? Should I try a smaller apeture to get more depth of focus?

I had the auto-focus set to just the center point, I'd put that dot right on her face, let it focus, and then reframe the shot, I was hoping this way I would get her face in focus instead of her arm or guitar. I tried to make sure she didn't move closer or further from the time it focused till the time I shot, if she did I refocused.

First off: Why use ISO 200??? Set the camera on ISO 800 *at least*, and use a faster shutterspeed and/or stop down... I never go below ISO 1600 unless I'm at f/2.8 or slower and 1/320 very often.
Try to stay at 1/60 and faster if possible, stop down to around f/2 if possible. The 50/1.4 is not at it's best (http://www.moonglade.net/~rene/POTN/50mm.jpg) fully opened. (Usable if you have to, but avoid it unless you need to / want very shallow DoF)
Second: Focus-recompose is not a good technique (http://www.outbackphoto.com/workshop/phototechnique/essay06/essay.html) in any case, specially not when shooting at f/1.4 with moving subjects. This might easily get you OoF shots.

[Philco]

My first lens for my 20D was the 50 1.4 and my first outing was to a music club with awful lighting. I've had no focusing problems compared to either the 24-70 2.8 or the 70-200 2.8. I always ride my focus point joystick so that I have a point on the subject, which I think is harder to to w/ the Rebel. I almost always have the focus point selector all the way to one side or the other, which is especially usefull if you compose vertically and have the face under the red square.

I've found that anthing 1/60th or under has more to do with luck or catching the right moment without too much motion blur. I try to keep it at 1/80th if at all possible. ISO is always 800-1600.

I've had luck metering on faces, then switching to manual with that reading. If lighting changes a lot, I use exposure lock below the subject and recompose, but the goal is to get 1/60th or better.

This is from my first outing, IS0 1600, 1/60th @ F 1.8. At 1/80th, it would've been a better shot, but as it happens the band really liked this one, so go figure. A bit of USM would probably help some too.
http://www.defalcophoto.com/truckees/Truckees%20(24).jpg

[johnstoy]

Great info regarding the metering and settings...

John

Mine Equip. (all Canon): 30D Body, 50mm 1.4 USM, 50mm 1.8, 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 kit stock-not USM, 28-135mm 3.5-5.6 IS USM Wide Angle Telezoom, 75-300mm III 4.0-5.6 Telezoom, RS-80N3, several CF SanDisk Ultra II 1.0GB cards, several tripods, mono pod, no flash yet, dozens of filters/close up lenses.

[Schipperke]

On third shot looks like she moved, along with keyboard players hand. Drummer is still
?

[narlus]

About the 30D beeing noisier then the 350D; I don't think that should be the case...

true; i was freaking out at first but later found out that the reason is that somehow the "auto" correct feature had been re-established in ACR, so some of the RAW images looked insanely noisy at first. once i sorted that out, my heart rate returned to normal. ;)

thanks for your comments, very helpful as usual.