tilt/shift lens for 10D

[u02bnpx]

Does anyone have experience using one of the relatively inexpensive Arsat tilt/shift lenses (from Kiev USA, I believe) with the 10D, or with any other Canon digital SLR? I've put what money I have into two "L" zooms and a 50 prime, but I'd love to be able to play with shooting architecture and/or landscape with the supposed advantages of tilt/shift. And I can't afford the $1,000+ Canon asks for these lenses.

[Yance]

Forget the lens. If you have Photoshop there are many plugins you can purchase for less than $100 which will do the same thing almost as well. I believe you can also do without the plugins with most photo editing programs. Just don't try to do much with images taken from a wide angle lens. Some distortion will be evident but even with the Canon lenses there is some distortion at the edges.

[GPR1]

I don't know anything about those lenses, but I don't agree with the assertion it is just as well to fix it in Photoshop. Having started in film, I'm a believer in getting the best image possible in the camera. You end up with the highest possible images this way.

That said, if the lenses you are considering are low quality, then you'll probably get better images with a better lens and photoshop work.

At one local camera store (Portland, OR) you can rent the Canon TS lenses for $25 a day. That might be another option for now, depending on your ussage and whether you have a store that will do the same thing.

Greg

[DaveG]

Yance wrote:
Forget the lens. If you have Photoshop there are many plugins you can purchase for less than $100 which will do the same thing almost as well. I believe you can also do without the plugins with most photo editing programs. Just don't try to do much with images taken from a wide angle lens. Some distortion will be evident but even with the Canon lenses there is some distortion at the edges.


In Photoshop (or any other imaging program) you may well be able to emulate the rise that a shift lens will give you. (Rise fixes the "buildings falling over backwards" problem) But I don't see how you can emulate the sharpness that tilt brings to the game.

The idea of tilt is that the plane of depth of field "lays down" and is no longer parallel with the back of the camera. Simply this means that the foreground of an image can be in focus along with everything from the foreground to infinity, while using a large aperture.

Think of a close up of flowers in an alpine meadow with the mountains sharp in the background.

My point is that if the flowers are grossly out of focus then the imaging program won't help much, no matter HOW much un-sharpen mask you crank in. Without tilt the depth of field - even at f32 - may not be enough. With tilt f5.6 might do it.

[u02bnpx]

Dave, Many thanks, to you and to the others who have responded. Re TS, I've decided to do nothing at present. I don't feel confident enough to "straighten" things in Photoshop. I can't rent a TS lens locally, and probably wouldn't even if I could. I'm only a serious hobbyist, semi-retired, and enjoy the luxury of spontaneously setting out for a couple of hours of shooting (when the snows aren't blowing, as they currently are in Erie, PA). Much as I'd love to shoot landscapes with DOF from, say two feet to infinity, while on vacations, I certainly don't have the thousand bucks to do so. And the Russian lens just doesn't have a solid reputation.

Floyd

[DaveG]

u02bnpx wrote:
Dave, Many thanks, to you and to the others who have responded. Re TS, I've decided to do nothing at present. I don't feel confident enough to "straighten" things in Photoshop. I can't rent a TS lens locally, and probably wouldn't even if I could. I'm only a serious hobbyist, semi-retired, and enjoy the luxury of spontaneously setting out for a couple of hours of shooting (when the snows aren't blowing, as they currently are in Erie, PA). Much as I'd love to shoot landscapes with DOF from, say two feet to infinity, while on vacations, I certainly don't have the thousand bucks to do so. And the Russian lens just doesn't have a solid reputation.

Floyd

I think that renting is a great idea.

I owned a Nikkor 35 mm f2.8 PC (Perspective Control) lens. I got it as part of a trade
and it seemed like a good idea at the time. These lenses (even the newest Canon tilt shift
lenses) are completely manual. That means that you have to close them down before you
can use them and it's a slow process.

Since I also owned a 35 mm f2, that extra speed, and the convenience meant that it was
my go-to lens and not the PC lens. After I realized that I had gone about a year without
touching the PC I decided to trade it for something else. Had it had tilt as well, I'm not so
sure I would have parted with it. But renting means that you could try it out very cheaply. If you LOVE it then you could
make plans to get one. But they can be inconvenient as I say and the shift only lenses are
something of a one trick pony.

[rdenney]

u02bnpx wrote:
Does anyone have experience using one of the relatively inexpensive Arsat tilt/shift lenses (from Kiev USA, I believe) with the 10D, or with any other Canon digital SLR? I've put what money I have into two "L" zooms and a 50 prime, but I'd love to be able to play with shooting architecture and/or landscape with the supposed advantages of tilt/shift. And I can't afford the $1,000+ Canon asks for these lenses.

There are several. One is the Hartblei 35mm tilt/shift lens, which comes in Nikon, Minolta, and M42 mounts only. No EOS, unfortunately. It's $600 at Kievcamera.com, but the Hartblei lenses are first-rate.

The Arsat lens is shift only, and is basically the same glass in a less sophisticated barrel. The optical quality is usually good, but the quality control isn't as good as Hartblei. That's why you get them with a warranty. Kiev Camera sells these for $259. (KievUSA is always the highest price on these units because they maintain a storefront. They want $375 for this lens. Plus, they only seem to list the Nikon mount version--and that lens won't work on a D-series Nikon.)

So, if you want tilt, the Canon lens is still the only choice.

But even for shift only, the big difference is focal length. The Canon tilt/shift lens is a 24, which is a bit longer than a 35mm on a full-frame camera. The 35mm Arsat will be a slight telephoto on the 10D. For architectural work on the 10D, it's just too long.

Using a shift lens on an SLR is a compromise. I have the Hartblei 45mm shift lens for medium format (equivalent to 24 on full frame 35mm), and it is an excellent lens, but it is still quite limited compared to a 47mm Super Angulon on my view camera with a 6x9 rollfilm back. Perspective correction in the camera is pretty demanding.

All in all, using software to make the correction is the way to go, but you will lose about half your usable resolution in the corners where the image is stretched.

Rick "who thinks the Arsat is a good lens and a good value but only on a full-frame camera" Denney

[DNHayashida]

DaveG wrote:

Think of a close up of flowers in an alpine meadow with the mountains sharp in the background.

My point is that if the flowers are grossly out of focus then the imaging program won't help much, no matter HOW much un-sharpen mask you crank in. Without tilt the depth of field - even at f32 - may not be enough. With tilt f5.6 might do it.



There is a neat PhotoShop trick to do this, but it does take some planning ahead. Take two pictures - one with the mountains in focus and one with the flowers in focus. Using Layers overlay the sharp focus portions of the two pictures.....
I'm sure you get the idea. Point is, if you already have PhotoShop you can do a lot of things that a specialty lens does. Not everything, I'll admit that, but a little creativity in PhotoShop goes a long way.
Darryl Hayashida

[jens1204@earthlink.net]

I have used the lens that you speak of and it is a fun lens but the problem that you may run into is that your camera may malfunction when put together with this lens. Mine did at one point and I had to send it in. Be careful what type of lense you put on your camera because the error fix usually runs 200 bucks.