Ever suffered from discrimination/restrain because of your photo gear?

[franksterstein]

Argh... even if it was a nice weekend filled with lots of great music, this year's Osheaga festival in Montreal will leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Actually had to go back, and leave the stuff back in the car...

Just go to: http://www.osheaga.com/en/faqs/ and click "What can I bring, not bring to Osheaga" and read just before the end of the first and second paragraphs, and you'll see THIS:

Not Allowed:
"Professional photo equipment (SLR cameras, i.e. removable lens cameras)"
Allowed:
Digital Camera (non-professional)

So the whole weekend was an invasion of small point and shoots, and cellular-phone cameras that kept flashing and flashing (!) in the dark over our heads, adding to the frustration of not being able to take some pictures for myself with the XT and my so-called professionnal removable lens. :rolleyes:

Which brings me that question "Have you ever been refused access to a location because of the nature of your photo gear, even if you're just passionnate about it and do non-commercial stuff?"

Cheers,
Frank

[stupot]

did you read the website before you went? their guidelines are pretty clear...

[nitschke65]

Wow! Lumped right in with illegal drugs and megaphones:rolleyes: I believe I would have walked right in with my 20D (maybe I'd take off the grip) and told them that a camera having a removable lens doesn't mean it's professional gear. How irritating:evil: No SLR cameras at a festival of me music and ARTS!?!?!? It's never happened to me, and I hope it never does.

[Steve Parr]

It's hardly discrimination, as they're not telling you that you can't attend the concert.

I work with a group that puts on a blues festival every year. We don't allow coolers or pets.

Are we "discriminating"?

I think not...

[franksterstein]

Yup, stupot, I did just before we left, and exactly for that reason... that's why I actually took the chance to bring a very-reduced amount of gear, in the optics of "What's the point of having a great camera if you don't have it to take pictures". (And I was totally aware of that, by the way.)

(That's my little way of tresspassing. I think my camera is less damageable than all that grass almost half of the crowd was smoking... maybe they didn't read the guidelines before they left :) (no offense here!))

The thing I'm wondering seriously about here, is more about the "form factor" of the camera. With the improvement of technologies and miniaturisation; some point and shoots now have IS, long range telephoto, 8-10megapixel that can still take great usable/sellable/enjoyable pictures. Can someone shed some light on that? Why would they refuse SLR (even if it's film), and allow P&S and non-removable lens digital cameras.

[nitschke65]

It's hardly discrimination, as they're not telling you that you can't attend the concert.

I work with a group that puts on a blues festival every year. We don't allow coolers or pets.

Are we "discriminating"?

I think not...

You don't allow coolers or pets. Fine, a rule's a rule. This festival said you can't bring in a RebelXT with a nifty fifty (because it's professional:shock: ) but you can bring in your point-and-shoot digital. That's like allowing people to bring in cats, but not dogs.

[franksterstein]

Thanks everybody for the input, and thanks nitschke65 for sharing my "perception" about the first comment. :)

Steve: Maybe "discriminating" is not the right term, (I must apologize to everybody, English is not my first language, and sometimes I lack the proper terms to express my ideas)...

I totally understand the interdiction regarding cooler and pets, but I see the "camera thing" that way...

"Can: " You can bring round water bottles that contain water."
"Can't" You can't bring oval water bottles that contain water."

They were not interdicting the "picture taking activity"...

Well, I'll continue saving money and buy a 2nd smaller camera that I'll keep in a car. :cry:

[dmp]

buying a higher-end Point-n-shoot can help in those situations. One reason I like my S2 IS :)

But to one question: It IS discrimination. And there's nothing wrong with it. We discriminate ALL the time over many things. People today are SO afraid of that word. lol :)

[Steve Parr]

You don't allow coolers or pets. Fine, a rule's a rule. This festival said you can't bring in a RebelXT with a nifty fifty (because it's professional:shock: ) but you can bring in your point-and-shoot digital. That's like allowing people to bring in cats, but not dogs.

Well, however you slice it, the guidelines are clear.

If I want to go someplace, but don't like their rules, I don't go; pretty simple stuff.

As to whether or not it's "right", well, that doesn't matter. They're free to restrict as they deem appropriate...

[Steve Parr]

That's like allowing people to bring in cats, but not dogs.

Well, see, that would be different. A dog is a pet, and a cat tastes like chicken...

:lol:

[dmp]

Well, however you slice it, the guidelines are clear.

If I want to go someplace, but don't like their rules, I don't go; pretty simple stuff.

As to whether or not it's "right", well, that doesn't matter. They're free to restrict as they deem appropriate...

Exactly - it's like joining a forum. By 'entering' you agree to THEIR rules. :) Nobody has the RIGHT to tell a business how to operate within the law. Restricting photography (to consumer-level) helps protect THEIR property (musicians, labels, whatever...)

[franksterstein]

Well, see, that would be different. A dog is a pet, and a cat tastes like chicken...

Steve: That, I'll have to agree! :) (speaking of animals, you have to view the small video at the top of the rules pages. it's craking... we used to have about 20 differents like that back in the days!)

Actually, I was trying to express the "symbolic frustration" about the difference between P'n'S/dSLR, but I see that maybe that was not well expressed. I'm still very new at events and public photography, so I just wanted to practice reading the action.

[nitschke65]

Well, see, that would be different. A dog is a pet, and a cat tastes like chicken...

:lol:

Okay, if you're going to be this funny, I'm going to have a very hard time arguing with you! My next point might take a few minutes, I have to clean up the coffee I just spit on my laptop:lol:

[Steve Parr]

Okay, if you're going to be this funny, I'm going to have a very hard time arguing with you! My next point might take a few minutes, I have to clean up the coffee I just spit on my laptop:lol:

Hehehehe... Glad I could be there for you, bro...

:lol:

[nitschke65]

Well, however you slice it, the guidelines are clear.

If I want to go someplace, but don't like their rules, I don't go; pretty simple stuff.


It's a good thing Rosa Parks didn't have the same attitude.

I think it would be appropriate to suggest to the organizers of this festival that they allow attendees to bring a camera with a single lens with a focal length no longer than 100mm. I have to believe that they just don't want people draging out their 300 f/2.8. They obviously don't have a problem with photography.

[Steve Parr]

It's a good thing Rosa Parks didn't have the same attitude.

I can't even believe you're going to try to compare the two...

:rolleyes:

[MikeMcL]

I was at a small chinese circus in an average movie theatre sized auditorium recently. I had to put away my XT/zoom lens after the announcement that flash photography was not allowed (i was not flashing, and explained that to the ushers). No sooner do i get my junk stashed below my seat, then all the stupid locals with their P&S's and camera phones are flashing at about 75 times a minute (front 10 rows total) and no one ever said a word to them as they flashed away from the front rows in the face of acrobats doing death-defying feats of balance and strength.

They had no restriction on "pro" or anything like that just "no flash" because i follow rules i lost out, and all the idiots with bogus gear broke the rules anyways.

I guess my take on this is... take a modest kit... wait to get asked to put it away.
I normally take the xt/tammy 17-35 and a spare battery in the pocket to this type of stuff. i have limited options for shots, but i almost never get tossed out of a place.

of course, if you try to walk in there with 2 bodies, flashes, lenses galore... you are a pro, and will get thrown out.. lol.

[nitschke65]

I'm just saying that just because someone has a "rule" that doesn't mean that you can't make an inquiry, involve yourself in the process, invest some time, and possibly make a change that helps people.

This is a photography forum, and no one but me seems interested in trying to get this festival to let in a guy with a Rebel XT and a nifty fifty. He should go out and drop $700 for a powershot G6. That's a great solution.

[franksterstein]

nitschke65: hey!!! go easy on my student budget! :) but thanks for backing the fact that I just want to have fun taking pictures, learn what I do right, what I do wrong, what to improve and keep basically just keep great memories! I actually had the chance to chat a little bit with one of the accredited photographers, and told him the story, and he was mesmerized. The only "reason" he saw was "damaged gear" and things like that. Got to try his 1D and 16-35 as a consolation. :)

MikeMcL: Thanks for the input... I thing the "respect" notion here is raised with reason, flashing in the faces of performers... the funny thing (not mean at all, btw); flash in the middle of a crowd, 80 feet away from the band, humm i wonder... *thinking* ho yeah, greensquare. :lol:

[Steve Parr]

I'm just saying that just because someone has a "rule" that doesn't mean that you can't make an inquiry, involve yourself in the process, invest some time, and possibly make a change that helps people.

This is a photography forum, and no one but me seems interested in trying to get this festival to let in a guy with a Rebel XT and a nifty fifty. He should go out and drop $700 for a powershot G6. That's a great solution.

You're onto something here.

Make the inquiry, and follow it up with an offer of some shots.

Did they have official event photographers there?

Man, this could be the type of situation which is ripe for grabbing a credential...

[nitschke65]

You're onto something here.

Make the inquiry, and follow it up with an offer of some shots.

Did they have official event photographers there?

Man, this could be the type of situation which is ripe for grabbing a credential...


Now you're talking my language!!!!:lol:

Have a great Labor Day! I'm off for fun and frolic in the drunkest city in America!

[Permagrin]

I am surprised they did allow photography at all (instead of a moratorium). Especially in this day and age. I bought an S3-IS, just for those types of moments...I don't use it much but sometimes that 12x zoom comes in handy ;)

[SuzyView]

I think it's all liability and coverage. Large cameras can be big and expensive and if you dropped one because you stepped on a crack, then you may just sue somebody there. If you have a P&S and drop it through the stadium stairs, it's only going to cost $500 max. So, the organizers think "Okay, let's band all expensive camera equipment that can injure someone or cost too much to replace." It makes sense, even if it is not very fair to us. The hired pros are allowed in because they have insurance and supposedly, know how to use their equipment. If you really want to get into places with your gear, maybe a letter stating your purpose and that you have insurance or you are working for a company (and actually work for that company) that may help. If not, then you've got to stay within the rules.

[jfrancho]

At least "The Rules" were published, and available before the event. Too often, they made up on the spot, and you have no choice but to follow them, or leave. Sounds like you arrived unprepaired. Next time bring an S3 IS.

[ssim]

I am always surprised that serious photography hobbiests tend to think that the rules should apply to everyone except them. Take a read through many of the threads about this type of thing to traveling with your camera gear to being questioned by the police for photographing in a restaurant. The them that I take from allot of these, I have my camera and it is my god given right to take them and use them anywhere I choose.

What is being listed on the website in question is not all that uncommon for events. There are a variety of reasons for this but at the end of the day it is their event and they do have the right to make the rules. In some cases it is those that provide the professional coverage of the event that urge that rules of this nature be included. I agree entirely that you can get some great shots with some of todays' point and shoot cameras. That is why I have a couple of different point and shoots that I can carry with me.

It is always worth a try to send the organizers an email to try and get an exemption from these rules. It does happen. In some cases though you may get asked to sign an agreement and provide proof of liability insurance. I had asked for an exemption to a concert last year and was going to have it granted but when I read the agreement that they sent me I decided that it just wasn't worth it. It basically said that I could take pictures for my own personal enjoyment but that they could not be displayed on any type of website without their express written permission, they could not be shared via email and they could definitely not be sold.

I would bet that somewhere there is a forum for people that enjoy do remote sound recordings and they are undoubtedly having this same debate. We are not singled out and I certainly agree that it is frustrating to have our DSLR's outlawed while the dude beside is shooting with a high end P&S. They do however, have to draw the line somewhere.

[NickSimcheck]

I attended the event (which was AWESOME) and I bought an LX3, a Fisheye camera, and an HD Video camera with some lenses.

So I did strech the rules (no video allowed) however the point I am trying to make is; the vibe people receive from you makes the difference of getting in or not. Because I was very nice, friendly, open, smiley, etc. I was able shoot video at the base of one of the stages, shooting with the event photographers and videographers, security never even said a word. And I made damn sure I didn't get in the way of anybody else, so I was accepted by everyone.

I just made a good effort to make it look like I belong, and that I didn't appear to be doing something that was not allowed. I made eye contact, moved, smiled, whatever seemed to be the right thing to do at that time.

Oh yeah - don't let me foget to say; there is no point in getting upset if you try to bend the rules and it doesn't happen for you. They are legit rules, and you are agreeing to the terms when setting foot on the property.

[shaun raney]

I think that the other issue here is enforceability. A rule is only as effective as the enforcement, and by excluding cameras with removable lenses, you take out the "pro" photographer who may be using pictures he or she takes to make money off of the event and essentially compete with the venue.

Yes, the rule is hamfisted, but it was clearly explained.

[rklepper]

This year or in 2006? :lol:



I attended the event (which was AWESOME) and I bought an LX3, a Fisheye camera, and an HD Video camera with some lenses.

So I did strech the rules (no video allowed) however the point I am trying to make is; the vibe people receive from you makes the difference of getting in or not. Because I was very nice, friendly, open, smiley, etc. I was able shoot video at the base of one of the stages, shooting with the event photographers and videographers, security never even said a word. And I made damn sure I didn't get in the way of anybody else, so I was accepted by everyone.

I just made a good effort to make it look like I belong, and that I didn't appear to be doing something that was not allowed. I made eye contact, moved, smiled, whatever seemed to be the right thing to do at that time.

Oh yeah - don't let me foget to say; there is no point in getting upset if you try to bend the rules and it doesn't happen for you. They are legit rules, and you are agreeing to the terms when setting foot on the property.

[DennisW1]

Yup, stupot, I did just before we left, and exactly for that reason... that's why I actually took the chance to bring a very-reduced amount of gear, in the optics of "What's the point of having a great camera if you don't have it to take pictures". (And I was totally aware of that, by the way.)

(That's my little way of tresspassing. I think my camera is less damageable than all that grass almost half of the crowd was smoking... maybe they didn't read the guidelines before they left :) (no offense here!))

The thing I'm wondering seriously about here, is more about the "form factor" of the camera. With the improvement of technologies and miniaturisation; some point and shoots now have IS, long range telephoto, 8-10megapixel that can still take great usable/sellable/enjoyable pictures. Can someone shed some light on that? Why would they refuse SLR (even if it's film), and allow P&S and non-removable lens digital cameras.

So, you read the rules that said no SLR or removable-lens type cameras and are bitching because you couldn't sneak yours in despite the fact that you knew quite well in advance that it wasn't allowed?

Your gripe should be with the venue, and/or the performers, most of whom anymore demand such restrictions to make sure that high quality saleable photos of them aren't sold without the artists getting a cut of the profits.

I fear that the addition of video capability to some of the newer DSLR's is only going to make this worse, time will tell

[NickSimcheck]

This year or in 2006? :lol:

I don't get it :confused:

But to answer your question, yes this year.

Now I'll tell everybody that the dedication Jason Mraz & Toca made for Nick and Andrea, that was for us! We ate breakfast with them, and must have made an impression in order for them to do that for us.

We're still riding the high from it! :D:D

[mattograph]

We don't allow coolers.

Hey, who speaks for the coolers? No one. Where's the Lorax when you need him?

[T.D.]

I don't get it :confused:

But to answer your question, yes this year.

Now I'll tell everybody that the dedication Jason Mraz & Toca made for Nick and Andrea, that was for us! We ate breakfast with them, and must have made an impression in order for them to do that for us.

We're still riding the high from it! :D:D

You resurrected a thread from 2006. That's what he was referring to. :D