Patronize your Local stores or online purchases

[Fuzzleak]

I'm planning on purchasing the D10 body. It's pretty much $1499.99 everywhere you look. I normally would consider online purchasing this body, but if something goes wrong within the first 14 days, I'd have to ship it back to the online store. The hassle of shipping it back on my expense, getting a rma number, waiting for the new on to arrive etc... Or if I bought it locally, I simply bring it back to the store purchased and exchange it. Is it really worth saving from paying local taxes by ordering it online or would you just pay the taxes and take it home today ? What do the majority of you do ?

[vvizard]

For me, in Norway, the price-difference between our cheapest online-store having it in stock, to the local store was ~ $400. I took the chance on RMA-hell =) Don't regret it so far.

[Scottes]

Given reputable dealers either way, I'd certainly go local for the savings in shipping, the ability to get it NOW and not wait for shipping, and the ease of return just in case something went wrong.

I go online for selection and pricing and ease of shopping. That is, I don't want to drive around to 5 stores to find a specific item that I know I can get at Adorama or B&H.

[CoolToolGuy]

Getting it right away certainly is an issue, but it also depends on what type of local store you are talking about. If it is the local branch of a chain, your purchase won't make much difference. But if it is a single store or a local chain, it may.
But perhaps the biggest factor may be whether they give you service and advice. I patronize the locally-owned camera store (Cooper's Camera Mart - Baltimore, MD USA) because they have knowledgable folks that I can talk to, and equipment in stock (lenses, etc.) that I can try in the store before I buy. I am certainly willing to pay them the same price as someone else to help keep them in business, and I am willing to pay a premium for the same reason.
Just one man's opinion

Have Fun

[Belmondo]

Where I live, we have no large camera stores. Moreover, we have a 7.75% sales tax which can be avoided by buying out-of-state. These are fairly compelling arguments for not purchasing locally, at least on the big-ticket items. It is far more convenient for me to buy something online from one of the big stores like B&H than it is to make the 6-hour round trip into Los Angeles to a store like Samy’s or Canoga Camera.

On the other hand, I’d much rather buy locally if at all possible. If we don’t support our local camera stores, they will eventually disappear, and we will end up with no choice but to do all our shopping on the internet. I occasionally buy equipment at a local shop nearby, but he really has a hard time being competitive and I usually end up paying more for the privilege. The sad fact is, you and I can buy cameras and lenses from places like B&H and Adorama for just about what he has to pay through Canon’s authorized distributors. It doesn’t seem fair, but it’s the real world. I’m not sure that customer loyalty alone can save these folks if they’re not allowed to compete.

Business stinks.

Oh, and the other problem is availability. Even the big chains like Circuit City and Best Buy don’t stock much of anything, and they don’t offer the complete Canon lineup, even through their online stores. If you need a $20 eyepiece extender, you’re probably only going to find it online, and you’re going to spend another $5 on postage/shipping just getting it sent if you want it in any reasonable time.

There are no easy answers.

[ssim]

When I started to put my collection together I was either phoning around locally or driving from store to store. I found that the local retailers were a tad bit high on their pricing.

I found an online camera store here in Canada that had very good pricing and very good service. I've only had to return one item and it was creditied to my credit card within days of my sending back. They have made followup calls to make sure that I was happy with the service and product.

I've made many purchases with them and am very happy with what I get from them. For me, I will be staying with the online purchasing until I am convinced otherwise which, given my recent experiences, will take some doing.

[BobbyC]

I've had conversations with Canon about this and if a local store is an Authorized Canon dealer the price difference for what they pay and B&H pays is not that much, unless they just want to buy one to put on the shelf. I've tried hard to stay local with my purchases but am not going to pay ridiculous markups, because as some of them say "We have a storefront with people that can help you". (Have you ever seen or been to B&H?) Which most of the time equates to "I work in a camera store and I know more than anyone about anything to do with photography" ie Primadonna syndrome. They are not all this way, but most are.

Business does not stink when you take away petty jealousy and small minded attitudes and learn what it's really all about. When you do, it's awesome.

[Belmondo]

BobbyC wrote:Business does not stink when you take away petty jealousy and small minded attitudes and learn what it's really all about. When you do, it's awesome.

Maybe not from where your nose is poking out the window, but here are some real-world situations the small independent faces:
1. They do have rent to pay. They have utilities, advertising, business licenses, cost of merchandise, shrinkage (loss from theft), insurance, maintenance, and a million other expenses involved with just keeping their doors open.
2. They can't do the volume that the large discount bombers do, so they pay more at the wholesale level.
3. They can't always justify buying things in quantity because there isn't always a demand.
4. They can't always get the merchandise when they want or need it. Orders to larger companies seem to get filled first.

My 'local' shop is suffering all these problems. He's had three 10D's and 6 Drebels on order from Canon for weeks. It now looks like he will not have them for Christmas. Even though he has a waiting list, many of the people on it are actively looking for a camera and will go elsewhere to get it. When the cameras finally arrive, he could end up looking at them on his shelf for a long time.

We're not talking about some kid working in the camera department at Best Buy. This man is a professional. He is knowledgeable, friendly, and trying very hard to earn a living in a business that is growing increasingly hostile to small entrepreneurs. His life’s blood is wrapped up in the store, and it’s sad to see the obstacles he faces on a daily basis.

Business does not stink when you take away petty jealousy and small minded attitudes and learn what it's really all about. When you do, it's awesome.

On the first part of this statement, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. On the second part, I’m missing something here. Who’s petty, jealous, and small-minded? I’d love to see you expand on this statement just to make sure I’m not misinterpreting what you’re saying.

Tom

[ThePhantomsGirlfriend]

Hey...

And some of us do not have a whole lot of choice. I do have a local camera shop but they don't even carry most cameras. They carry the supplies and do photo processing. There was no one for me to give my business TO.

I went to B&H because they have a good reputation and they had the 10D in stock. Even if I drove to Phoenix -- two hours away -- none of the camera shops there had one in stock.

I'm all for supporting local and small business, but I also have to look at other factors. Sufice it to say - when I can use them - I do. When it's not feasible then I don't.

All I know - which has nothing to do with this thread - is that I am truly enjoying my 10D and the 70-200L IS! I'm like a little kid - and I can't wait to learn more (and ore and more and more)

Smiles,

Holly

[Belmondo]

I buy from B&H. I also have bought from 17th Street. I've bought from Samy's, and Canoga Camera.

I also buy from my local guy whenever feasible. He also understands I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars more for something purely in the name of loyalty (although I have done that on at least two occasions).

My whole point is, if we don't support our local shops -----





Aw, heck. I'm just repeating myself.

Holly:
I'm really happy to hear you're enjoying the camera. It's an amazing combination (10D + 70-200 f/2.8L IS)

Tom

[agit-prop]

Well, I bought mine locally in Canada for $2500 Cdn including taxes. I could have ordered mail-order from the US for $1500 USD but I would have to deal with exchange rates, duties, GST, and shipping costs

$1500 USD = 1,957 CAD

Duties (~20%)= $391

GST= 7% - $137

Shipping = $40 Cdn

Total for mail-order ~$2525 CDN

So on price it's a wash. However, if something happens to the camera I have a local store to go to and I don't have to pay to ship it back to the dealer

[sds4kst8]

I just purchased my 10d from the local camera store after looking at all the purchase options. I actually bid on a couple of cameras on eBay and lost out on what appeared to be pretty good deals (not those "deals" from the guy who's in Italy on businesses!). All the while I had my name on a list at the local store so when they came in I'd have one I could purchase if I wanted.

Those guys, for the most part, have been very friendly and helpful. IMHO I felt comfortable paying sales tax (even at 7.8%) rather than shipping and knowing I had a group of live, knowledgeable guys I could talk one-on-one with if I had a problem or question.

I used to work at Best Buy and when they found out I didn't buy from them they scrambled to make me an "offer". Well, that "offer" was only $100 less than the local store and I didnt' think it was worth the hassle (nor would that have been fair to the local store).

I work in small-business development for a living and see the affects the internet and big-box retail is having on the local shops. However, I look for VALUE in my purchases and that doesn't always mean the lowest price (could ya guess I haven't stepped foot in a Wal-Mart in 2 years! Ha!).

[BobbyC]

Tom,

I'll admit my statement was maybe too strong. I get so sick of broad statements such as yours about business in general. I do know all the things you've pionted out because I've been in business for many years, as have many of my family members. Such broad statements just hit me the wrong way and I apologize for lumping you in.

Business does NOT stink. Most of the charity in this country comes from business. Most of the business people in this country are good decent people that take many risks and are punished by high taxes and attitudes such as your statement. Since 80% of all businesses in this country are small family business, these are the ones I refer to. Big business is another topic altogether, but it still comes down to the people running them.

There are bad people in the world and because some of them use a business as thier means to be bad, it does not make all businesses bad.

I know this forum is about photography, so I'll just say this, your broad statement must mean that you feel the same way about photography businesses and I take issue with that.

Nuff' Said.

[Belmondo]

BobbyC wrote:Nuff' Said.

Not quite.

I think you and I agree substantially on this. I do feel you're being a little hyper-sensitive to my 'business stinks' comment, however.

It's intended only as a characterization that being in a business ---any business--- is at best difficult, carries risks, and doesn't always end up happily for the business person. There are no guarantees or protections against being swallowed whole by competitors or destroyed slowly and painfully by ever-changing market conditions over which we have no control.

My wife and I were in business for ourselves for over thirty years, and managed to retire with some of our money and ALL of our integrity. And despite the never-ending hassles, sleepless nights, financial worries, and legal hassles, we wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

But I beg to differ: there are aspects of being in business for yourself that do stink. One is the 'you owe me' mentality that's become so prevalent in this age of consumerism. Another is the government's practice of insinuating themselves into just about every aspect of your business, including profit sharing by taxation. And then there are lawyers…..I’ll skip that discussion altogether.

I’ll admit that my attitude might appear to be a bit cynical---I assure it is not. It’s just that I have long since come to the realization that hard work, devotion, intelligence, and the willingness to accept risk, cannot together always guarantee that a person will be successful. In a system that’s supposed to reward hard work, that stinks.

Tom

[Mikesht]

I agree with you (although still will be bying online) if that person is indeed knowlegable and friendly at the same time. We have 2 stores that I know of in Metro Detroit area. Both are exactly the same. You go there and an attitude is "you will not buy this, why are you waisting my time?" Now, mind that I am 38 years old and between me and wife we are pulling more than $130K a year. Yes, I am not a pro photographer and my questions may be stupid, so what?
So I just go there, handle the camera, look at it and than go and by online cheaper from reputable sources (resellerrating.com will tell you that). Screw them snobs!
Mike

[Belmondo]

mikesht wrote:
So I just go there, handle the camera, look at it and than go and by online cheaper from reputable sources (resellerrating.com will tell you that). Screw them snobs!
Mike

You're talking about a very different kind of operation than I am. I watched the gentleman in our local shop spend over an hour one day paitently explaining the operation of a small digital P&S to a woman that had actually bought it somewhere else. He scored lots of PR points, but didn't do a thing for his bottom line. Would you go into his store, handle his camera, then go home and buy it online?

If so, that puts you into a very special class of people, at least to my way of thinking.

[BobbyC]

belmondo wrote:
I think you and I agree substantially on this. I do feel you're being a little hyper-sensitive to my 'business stinks' comment, however.

Exactly why I apologized.

belmondo wrote:
But I beg to differ: there are aspects of being in business for yourself that do stink. One is the 'you owe me' mentality that's become so prevalent in this age of consumerism. Another is the government's practice of insinuating themselves into just about every aspect of your business, including profit sharing by taxation. And then there are lawyers…..I’ll skip that discussion altogether.

See, I took it as meaning that businesses stink, not that it stinks to be in business. The fact is we probably agree on just about everything.

belmondo wrote:
I’ll admit that my attitude might appear to be a bit cynical---I assure it is not. It’s just that I have long since come to the realization that hard work, devotion, intelligence, and the willingness to accept risk, cannot together always guarantee that a person will be successful. In a system that’s supposed to reward hard work, that stinks.

I understand completely and many times feel cynical myself, but unfortunately there never will be any guarantees, to me that's what I love about the challenge of being in business.

Sorry again for taking you the wrong way.

[Mikesht]

You took just a portion from my responce, which is not fair. I thought I expalined why I do what I do.
And who are those "very special class of people"? Do I break any laws, or fraud anybody? Do I steal from anybody? Do you steal from american textile industry when you buy a shirt made in China? You can go far with this.
If the price was the same and they handled me with a respect like you would think they should handle the person who about to drop $1500, of course I would buy from them. Instead they sell higher and give me s...t for service, because I happen to not know exactly the name of a filter or a strobe I want...
Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion like I am to mine. :-))

[jboyd]

I learned an expensive lesson - that is to buy online!

I got my 10D last month from B & H, mainly because no one locally had them in stock. I need to mention that I had lenses for it from my Canon film camera - a 28-80 and 75-300 - so I didn't need to buy lenses right away. But, then I decided I wanted a macro lens, because I love shooting macros. I did some shopping online and decided I wanted to look locally so I could put the lens on my camera and see if I really liked it. I went into a local store, camera specialty store, and told them what I was looking for - a macro, and would like the Canon 100mm, but didn't really want to spend that much. He showed me a 90mm Tamron. I liked it, and thought, ok, just go for it! So I bought it! It is a nice lens, don't get me wrong, but I was quite irritated when at work the next day I went online (B & H) only to find the Canon lens there was $70 less than I paid for the Tamron locally. I called the camera store to inquire about a return, only to have the sales person say "didn't he explain our return policy to you?" No! He didn't! They only offer an in store credit on returns. So, fine. I will now shop locally, and buy online!

Just my opinion.

Jackie

[ilya]

jboyd wrote:
I learned an expensive lesson - that is to buy online!

I got my 10D last month from B & H, mainly because no one locally had them in stock. I need to mention that I had lenses for it from my Canon film camera - a 28-80 and 75-300 - so I didn't need to buy lenses right away. But, then I decided I wanted a macro lens, because I love shooting macros. I did some shopping online and decided I wanted to look locally so I could put the lens on my camera and see if I really liked it. I went into a local store, camera specialty store, and told them what I was looking for - a macro, and would like the Canon 100mm, but didn't really want to spend that much. He showed me a 90mm Tamron. I liked it, and thought, ok, just go for it! So I bought it! It is a nice lens, don't get me wrong, but I was quite irritated when at work the next day I went online (B & H) only to find the Canon lens there was $70 less than I paid for the Tamron locally. I called the camera store to inquire about a return, only to have the sales person say "didn't he explain our return policy to you?" No! He didn't! They only offer an in store credit on returns. So, fine. I will now shop locally, and buy online!

Just my opinion.

Jackie

Did they pull a bait and switch on you? Did they mark up the price just for you? Did they mistreat you in any way? Doesn't sound like it. I'm sure they spent time with you and you got to try the lens on for size. Why then do you expect them to act like a Walmart? Why do you blame their return policy when you didn't do enough homework on how much lenses cost?

I'm fortunate enough to have a small store close to where I live. (I'm also a ground overnight delivery away from B&H). They know my name, and they sold me my 10D, and 3 of my 4 lenses, plus my EX flash. Even though I paid more, I got the service, I got to try things out, download the sample pics to their PC, and really have a nice experience which is what you want to have when parting with lots of money. Not to mention they are knowledgeable and really helped me understand what I'm getting into with the 10D, having only P&S experience. I don't buy everything from them, but usually if they have it in stock, I'll go with them. I do point out to them what the B&H price is, and they will try to bridge the gap, if they can.

So forgive me for reacting like this, but I have an affinity to the ma and pa shops. And I agree with belmondo, it does take a "special" kind of person to use the shop and turn around and buy elsewhere to save a few bucks.

[Mikesht]

I guess from now on I will not express mu opinion on forums like that, so that I will not become a "special kind" of a criminal, who does not want to pay $150-300 and to be treated like sh..t for the sake of this wonderfull myth of "local" "around the corner" mom and pop shop.
Sorry for my lost reputation here, I will have to learn to live with it.
How about buying a computer from Dell instead of paying twice to a local guy who puts it together in a basement? How about those steel import taxes for a foreighn suppliers that Bush just introduced? Are you onlu buying shirts that's tailored in USA?
Let's grow up, guys, seriously.
Mike

[ilya]

Mikesht wrote:
I guess from now on I will not express mu opinion on forums like that, so that I will not become a "special kind" of a criminal, who does not want to pay $150-300 and to be treated like sh..t for the sake of this wonderfull myth of "local" "around the corner" mom and pop shop.
Sorry for my lost reputation here, I will have to learn to live with it.
How about buying a computer from Dell instead of paying twice to a local guy who puts it together in a basement? How about those steel import taxes for a foreighn suppliers that Bush just introduced? Are you onlu buying shirts that's tailored in USA?
Let's grow up, guys, seriously.
Mike

Not about you, if you're treated like s**t that's a diff ballgame. Its about if people treated you with respect and kindness, you don't turn around and shaft them.

[Fuzzleak]

I believe within the internet we have today, one can find just about everything about the product they're interested in. Forums like these enable you to ask about certain cameras as well as their experiences, good or bad. If you do your homework, many of the products have been reviewed by several reputable reviewers. I go to amazon or forums and read from the people that have them. My local photo shop sells the 10D for the MAP of $1499.99. When I can save the last part of the balance of the camera, I'll buy from them. They explained the features thoroughly and even let me take sample shots with some of their expensive lens. I don't mind paying the local taxes for good-hands on service. The price is onpar with B&H. Now some of their lens maybe $40-$50 dollars more, but at least if something does go wrong, they are there for me to return with no hassles. The small stores know they can't compete, so they compete with hands on customer service that an online company can never do. I want to experience, try, feel the camera, lens, etc...As long as I understand as a consumer that they have to put a minimal mark up to help pay for the store, I don't mind at all. I just dread the day when all the little stores will dissappear and all we will have is virtual shopping malls in 3-D!!!

[jboyd]

I'm with you Mike! Don't feel like you can not express our opinions, though. Please do. There is always someone who will disagree with you, and you just have to take it with a grain of salt. I have been on many different forums where flames occur often. You just learn to ignore it.

Ilya, I did not shaft them, they shafted me! I gave them a try, and, like I said, I learned my lesson. I wasn't expecting them to be like Wal-mart, but at least Wal-mart tells you what their return policy is. Problem is not many places around here do anything digital. The store I bought all my film camera equipment at is really quit ignorant about digital - at least in my experience with them. And I don't know about you, but my photography does not support me, or my purchases for it. It is a hobby that is getting more expensive all the time. And to me, $70 is a big deal. And you can't tell me you have never shopped around for something to get the best deal you can. Again, I need to agree with Mike here:

"How about buying a computer from Dell instead of paying twice to a local guy who puts it together in a basement? How about those steel import taxes for a foreighn suppliers that Bush just introduced? Are you onlu buying shirts that's tailored in USA?
Let's grow up, guys, seriously.
Mike"

As for being a "special" person, many people have told me before that I am a "special" person - I won't get into the reasons here. I guess that has just been re-affirmed here! I'm glad I'm special! I will start telling others I agree with them, instead of telling them "I'm not that special!"

Jackie

[Mikesht]

:-)))

[ilya]

Peace to all and to all a good night

http://icantor.home.comcast.net/135hand222.gif

[arthurb]

This is always tough for me, since I like to see a product before I make a purchase.

I would much rather buy from a local store with knowledgable folks who help. But what I often find is stores staffed by kids who are younger than some of my lesnses, and have little understanding of the basics.

Radio Shack is the worst. Their sales droids are on commision, so they are movated to sell you Something, and often have no practical knowledge of their products.

At least at Best Buy, the sales droids are hourly employees, so although they are helpful, they don't see your sale as adding to their paycheck.

As far as photo shops go, I wanted to buy an EP-EX15 eyepiece extender for my 300d. Now it happens that this Extender can be used on most EOS cameras, so it is not a brand new accessory. I called several local photo stores trying to buy it locally. None stocked it, and a couple offered to order it for me.

Why should a have the store order it for me if I can buy it over the internet faster and cheaper?

[swamprot]

I really don't like mail order much but I will do it if necessary. It's kind of nice to hold it in your hands and be able to say I'll take this one.

Concerning my 10D, I bought from Local (thirty miles local) camera store. I bought my first real camera (Canon F1) from them back in the 70's. From the same guy as a matter of fact.

I researched the web enough to decide I wanted 10D and what they are selling for. Called dealer They had one in stock, I jumped in my camera toteing machine went there and brought it home.

Damn glad I did. Considering my problems, They said bring it in we will take care of it.

[gsmx2]

Jackie wrote: So, fine. I will now shop locally, and buy online!

It's that action that will create the self-fullfilling profecy of "being treated like s**t". It will start the third or fourth time you go into a shop, have their people open their boxes and unwrap thier equipment so you can try it on a camera that you bought elsewhere and then you thank them for their time and walk out the door to order the item on-line.

Mike's created his own situation because he is recognized as a person who will not buy the equipment he is looking at. He is in fact wasting their time. He admits such when he says, "So I just go there, handle the camera, look at it and than go and by online cheaper from reputable sources."

Shop on-line/buy on-line
Shop local/buy local

Either of those are legitimate choices.

Shop local/buy on-line? Just a bad concept in my opinion.

Scott

[GPR1]

I'm one of the lucky ones who has a local camera store (Pro Photo Supply in Portland, OR) that is helpful, respectful, and competitively priced. I bought my 10D from them for $1499 -- what most reputable places on the web charged. A few might have charged less, but my local store was charging a fair price. I shop there regularly, knowing competitive prices when I go through the door, and they rarely disappoint me.

I have also purchased from KEH over the web, but I shop locally most of the time. I read on this thread that many people don't have that option because of attitude and price. That's too bad.

Greg