Rebel vs 10D

[focusnclick]

I am trying to compare the Digital Rebel to the 10D and then the 10D to the Nikon D100. I use a Rebel in M mode now for some of the time and a Nikon N8008 the rest of the time. But I want to venture into the digital realm and I am getting lost in all of the literature and am hoping someone can help me do a quick compare.

focusnclick

[agit-prop]

Have you looked at the comparison chart on the first page of the dpreview 300D (AKA Digital Rebel) page?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/

[eric1]

I have a DRebel. I wish I had a 10D. I bought the DR
to have more money left for lenses. I will most likely
buy the 10D's successor. If your a somewhat
accomplished photographer buy the 10D, or you
will miss the extra features. That said the DR is a \nice camera capable of great photos. I think both Canon's
surpass the Nikon in picture quality. If you need to save
the $600 for lenses buy the DR. If you don't, by all means get the 10D. Either way it's a prudent choice.
Oh yeah, forget about the Nikon D100, it costs more,
and gets out performed.

eric1

[Canuck]

Agit-Prop wrote:
Have you looked at the comparison chart on the first page of the dpreview 300D (AKA Digital Rebel) page?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/

Have you looked back thru this forum? I have mentioned this link: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page6.asp
There is also www.dpreview.com, www.steves-digicams.com, and www.dcresource.com to look at for info on the camera. I have been around this forum and am getting of the same old stuff. When I was in the market for a new camera, a digital type I went to www.google.com and searched for digital camera reviews and wow, I got hits of like 3,100,000! I'll make it simple here's the link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%2Bdigital%2Bcamera%2Breviews and next time please do a little homework. We have no idea what kind of knowledge you have regarding digital cameras and photography at all. We are willing to help, as we can but if you're like "What's a DSLR, or aperature, or totally clueless as to the world of higher end of photography" we have some work to be done. Just put yourself in my shoes...I've been on this forum since the beginning of May, 03 and can't begin to tell you how many people have asked the same type question. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. This is NOT a personal bash, but for yours and our sanity, do a little research and be more specific when posting!

[Sockfilter]

I am also in the same boat, however my choices are between the 10D and D100. I have done tons of homework, to the point of my eyes hurting from reading via the monitor and gas tank empty from going to the camera stores.

I have a minor in photography from a university, and am knowledgeable on film camera's with my preferences being Nikon for 35 and Mamiya for medium format.

Digital has tossed me for a loop though. Normally I would have no second guesses on the D100, however Canon does put up a good fight, if not the victor.

It is nice to hear from people that are open minded on the different brands, and the positive attributes that they have, instead of hearing from the one sided people who can say no more than the 10D is the best.

My thoughts:

10D has a starting ISO of 100, I like that versus the starting ISO 200 of the D100. How much that truly relates to digital, I don’t know (how much noise difference is there really when shooting RAW?). Enlighten me..:)

10D has PC on board, I shoot 50% studio so that is good, however is not the selling point as I own hot shoe to pc for Nikon that will work on the D100.

BG-ED3 is only $169 versus the Nikon MB-D100 $239.

You can update the firmware on the 10D yourself, D100 seems to be a service center only upgrade.

However all of Canons good L lenses are in the $1000 range, Nikon is a little better in that area.

I already have a few Nikon lenses, no Canon lenses...:(

Nikon has the new 10.5 fish eye designed for the DSLR, Canon?

Canon lens multiplication factor is 1.6 versus Nikon's 1.5, those .1's add up. Great for distance, not so good for close wide angle.

I am comfortable with the D100 layout and controls of the body, as it is 99% of the N80, however I am willing to learn Canon 10D if the image is truly better.

Canon seems to be on the cutting edge of technology, which is good, but sometimes jumps the gun too soon. When Nikon releases a camera, it's 99% bulletproof.

Nikon announced the D70 which will compete with the 300D, does not matter though as I will not buy anything below the 10D or D100 standard.

Just as Canuck is tired of the same old questions, I on the other hand am tired of the same old answers such as Canon is way better, Canon rocks, Nikon sucks. I want to know why, details… I have taken the time to write out my concerns on choice, anyone else willing to give it a go and to throw out some specs?

[focusnclick]

Sorry, didn't want to repeat what has already been asked. I did look around the forum, but didn't seem to find what I was looking for. I am an ameature photographer, photgraphing mostly landscapes in B&W and developing my own film. I am interested in venturing into digital and I have read the advertisements on the cameras and talked to several sales people, but sales people have a way of trying to sell you what they can make the most money on. I was hoping for an opinion from someone who has used one or both of the canons. I have lenses for noth nikon & canon so the comment of buying the camera for the one you have the best lenses for doesn't help me.

[focusnclick]

Thank you very much for your reply. I started out trying to decide between the 10D & the D100, but them someone said the Rebel had all of the same features as the 10D. It really through me for loop.

I have taken a few Photo classes, but for my own pleaseure. I do mostly landscapes in B&W and develope my own film. I have both Canon & Nikon Lenses, but not the very high end ones.

It is an expensive purchase and I want to make sure I will be happy with it. I felt that some one who has used either one would be a good source of information rather then a salesman.

Thanks again,

[Canuck]

Hi!
You want hard facts as to why Canon or N-word is better than the other? Simple, go to the respective websites and compare them. Alternatively, you can go to any of the websites I mentioned in the earlier post and read about it and draw your own conclusions. For me, Canon was better, as I had Canon lenses and it is daft to invest in another set of lenses if you already have a working set. For me I was marrried to Canon, but only to the tune of about $300. Now for the 300D vs 10D bit, then it really depends on if you plan on outgrowing the 300D. Best bet is to pop to local camera shop and see how they feel, sid by side. You will no doubt notice that the 10D is much more manly! However, the cost is a fair bit more. When I got the 10D, the 300D wasn't around. I, personally would not have gotten it anyway. That's just me. From what I have seen with posts on this forum, it takes pics much like the 10D. You have much more flexibility with the 10D and that is what equals more $$$. It would also seem to me that the 10D is entry level pro; the 300D is still (I really hate this word) pro-sumer. It is like asking is it hot or cold outside? You can't be both like pro and consumer. You see what I'm getting at? So that said, Idunno. What was I saying? Right, well, the end of the day it is your money and your choice ultimately, and that is something you will have to do for yourself. We can only be of so much assitance, then you have to go do the homework. IMHO it seems like you have some homework to do if not already. In some ways it seems like the 10D is way more pro then the 300D. How many pro cameras do u know of that have silver on them? Not that it effects shooting performance, but to illustrate a point. The choice is yours...

[kabell]

focusnclick wrote:
Sorry, didn't want to repeat what has already been asked. I did look around the forum, but didn't seem to find what I was looking for. I am an ameature photographer, photgraphing mostly landscapes in B&W and developing my own film. I am interested in venturing into digital and I have read the advertisements on the cameras and talked to several sales people, but sales people have a way of trying to sell you what they can make the most money on. I was hoping for an opinion from someone who has used one or both of the canons. I have lenses for noth nikon & canon so the comment of buying the camera for the one you have the best lenses for doesn't help me.

Hi focusnclick!

I asked the same question a couple of months ago, and got some good answers. Here is the link:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18042

I chose the 10D, as the camera is going to serve me at least the next 3 years or maybe even longer, and I didn't wanted a camera that I would outgrow to soon.

[Sockfilter]

I agree that ultimately the choice is your own, and regardless of all the reviews that I read and look at, I cannot help to wonder how bias the reviews really are. Heck even the digital photo can be manipulated to persuade a consumer.

To be honest, if I had 10K invested in equipment I would stick with and promote the manufacture or would say nothing at all, as one would look silly for investing that kind of money on something that they are bashing publicly.

So the bottom line for me is that I will not be able to make a choice until I can physically compare the 2 side by side and have a print out of both of my own doings, from start to finish. I have exhausted my research on the web, now it’s out to the photo groups in my area to get what I really need, A finally product of a digitally produced image from start to finish.

[Canuck]

Sockfilter,
Got to a local camera shop that has both and see what they are like feeling them and mounting the lenses and whatever you plan on putting on it. I can't bash the N-word, as I have never shot with it. I will however say that I am really pleased w/ the 10D and kit I have. I don't know how the 300D does w/ monster lenses, like the 120-300 Sigma that weighs 5 3/4 lbs. At one point the 35mm rebel had a palstic lens mount. That was no good for bigger lenses. This was beginning 2000. I don't know if this has changed or not, having gone digital. I know the 10D lens mount is metal. Try a few lenses on both and say that you're considering and/or pricing it. I've been to Jessops a few times to see what stuff looks like before buying. I have bought stuff there too.

Just a few pence thrown out there...

[Ballen Photo]

I too have faced this dilema a couple months back. I knew I was going EOS because I had a good start on Canon EOS lenses from my film days(This choice was made after a simmiliar quandry and research in the late 80's). In the end I chose to spend the extra money on the 10D because it has more features to help give you more control, it is also supposed to be the hands down winner of long exposure capable DSLR's, and, heavier build quality is important to me since I tend to like keeping my photographic gear for quite a few years after purchase.
............Bruce

[Sockfilter]

Canuck,

Even more so than holding them and mounting lenses, I need to shoot several pics from both and run them head to head via Photoshop and Print a hard copy.

I already have a preference for the Nikon when it comes to feel and controlling as that is my primary film 35.

Since I am not biased, I want the Digital that will give the output that I am looking for, less noise, saturated colors, etc.

Heck if this was choice between Ektachrome or Provia, it would be easily solved at $4 bucks a roll, but in this case we are talking $1500 a sensor, so it requires a little more finesse in the comparison department, you cant just toss out the sensor when 36 shots are up go get a different brand…..:) Not yet anyways…hehe

Some people like to buy prime real-estate swap land in Florida via the phone, I need to see it first. That is what I need to do to make a decision, so that is what I will do.

Thanks…:)

[FotoPhreak]

To those tossing up between the 300D & the 10D ...

I was (am) in the same dilemma, but slightly beat you to the post in asking these questions.

I was fortunate enough to enlist the help of some of the more experienced users on this forum, and their help has been extremely beneficial.

However, I can understand where they are coming from in being slightly annoyed with you having asked this question, when there are many posts not that long ago that should at least provide some answers as to the questions you are asking.

Hopefully some will be found in the following:

As those of you who have been frequenting this site and posting replies/comments will know, I have recently included several different topics relating to choices over the 300D & the 10D.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20593

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20828

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20828

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20786

and of course

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20599


Let us all know how you go.

BTW, I had 3 options

1. Save money, no camera, maybe buy later -> pros more money in the meantime, cons start taking photos later and miss out on once-in-a-lifetime opportunities

2. 300D

3. 10D

I am now 95% certain that it will either be options 1 or 3, and am 70/30 leaning towards the camera.

Why?

Well as close as the 300D is to the 10D, I'm one of those people (hence why all the posts) that is constantly reading/involved in technology ... so nothing much annoys me more than buying an item and having it superceded within a short period of time, or purchasing something then wishing had the extra functionality later.

So the 10D's extra features listed below swayed me towards it:

*Much stronger body (con is that it is heavier)
*Can view ISO through viewfinder
*Scroll wheel on back
*Can shoot RAW on pre-set modes (cannot with 300D)
*And of course the biggest drawcard the AF issue (the 300D has been programmed so that it cannot access certain areas, as it is the same chip as the 10D).

Well I hope the above helps those in a similar position to myself.

And as I said, if you have made your decision are have any more comments make sure you keep us all updated.

To those experienced Canon users, if I have made a mistake in any of the '*' points above can you make sure you make me aware as I would be bitterly disappointed if I buy under false pretences.

Thanks.

[defordphoto]

FotoPhreak wrote:

*Can shoot RAW on pre-set modes (cannot with 300D)



10D cannot either, but my D60 can. But, it's definitely NOT a defining option to accept or reject a camera. You will not be using the preset modes very often, or ANY at all.

[ilya]

FotoPhreak wrote:
So the 10D's extra features listed below swayed me towards it:

*Much stronger body (con is that it is heavier)
*Can view ISO through viewfinder
*Scroll wheel on back
*Can shoot RAW on pre-set modes (cannot with 300D)
*And of course the biggest drawcard the AF issue (the 300D has been programmed so that it cannot access certain areas, as it is the same chip as the 10D).
Thanks.

Stronger body - once you're beyond the shirt-pocket size, I believe that size becomes a good thing. You'll see folks adding on the Big Ed for reasons beyond power management.

Scroll Wheel - YES

Some others
Not as good as 10D on automatic white balance performance
'Dumbed down' feature set (forced AI Focus, forced Evaluative metering, etc.)
Louder shutter sound than EOS 10D, more physical 'slap' from the mirror
No flash exposure compensation
No Kelvin white balance selection in-camera
AF area red dot indicator isn't ideal and has a slight halo
Reduced continuous shooting rate and buffer size (2.5 fps for max 4 images)
Viewfinder view slightly darker than EOS 10D
No parameter adjustment with Adobe RGB color space selected
White balance not fine-tunable
Lots of features lost due to removal of custom functions
ISO sensitivity not displayed on viewfinder status bar while being changed

However, those are things I think a lot of people can and are willing to learn to live without with the 300D. Its an incredible deal considering the engine is essentially the same as the 10D, and its a whole lot less money.

[Canuck]

Sockfilter wrote:
Canuck,

Even more so than holding them and mounting lenses, I need to shoot several pics from both and run them head to head via Photoshop and Print a hard copy.

I already have a preference for the Nikon when it comes to feel and controlling as that is my primary film 35.

Since I am not biased, I want the Digital that will give the output that I am looking for, less noise, saturated colors, etc.

Heck if this was choice between Ektachrome or Provia, it would be easily solved at $4 bucks a roll, but in this case we are talking $1500 a sensor, so it requires a little more finesse in the comparison department, you cant just toss out the sensor when 36 shots are up go get a different brand…..:) Not yet anyways…hehe

Some people like to buy prime real-estate swap land in Florida via the phone, I need to see it first. That is what I need to do to make a decision, so that is what I will do.

Thanks…:)


That was a start to see if you even like the feel of them. If so then bring a CF card, take some pics, if they will let you. You might enquire if they have a 7 day, no quibble return. They might have a display model for just that. I already had Canon lenses, so for me the decision to stay Canon was effortless.

As for buying land in Florida, that can be a realy money making orddeal. Me, I'd never live there, even if it was the last place on earth. I have my reasons, like it's too flipping hot most of the year and other reasons that are plaguing the rest of the US. I'm not going into it here. You might get an idea why if you look thru my previous posts. I'll leave it at that.

[arthurb]

I just think it is funny that the 300d 10d debate continues.

Since the 300d has a subset of the 10d features, the only reason to buy the 10d is if those extra features are worth $500 to you. PLus the price of a lens if you don't have Canon EF lenses.

I found that yes the extra features are nice, but they were not worth the price difference to me. IMHO the features that are missing (except for FEC) are not used very often. And with the freeware FEC program available its even better.

The Bottom Line is the Bottom Line :-) If you have the money, buy the 10d Otherwise, the 300d will do a great job for 99% of all your photography.

[FotoPhreak]

arthurb wrote:
I just think it is funny that the 300d 10d debate continues.

Since the 300d has a subset of the 10d features, the only reason to buy the 10d is if those extra features are worth $500 to you. PLus the price of a lens if you don't have Canon EF lenses.

I found that yes the extra features are nice, but they were not worth the price difference to me. IMHO the features that are missing (except for FEC) are not used very often. And with the freeware FEC program available its even better.

The Bottom Line is the Bottom Line :-) If you have the money, buy the 10d Otherwise, the 300d will do a great job for 99% of all your photography.

Ahhh don't do this to me ....

Now you've got me thinking again.

I had pretty much convinced myself that the 10D was so much better than the 300D, and what have you done ... gone and crushed all my self-convincing efforts! =P

Anyone else care to get me back on the 10D bandwagon ... PLEASE!

[Sockfilter]

Now that you mention it, I have never had a problem returning equipment to B+H...:) Although I have never tried to return a $1500 piece of equipment, but do not think it would be a problem. With the higher price tag I just assumed it was a done deal, much like buying that swap land. haha

Yeah I can’t figure Florida out either, like you said too hot, men/women running around with next to nothing on...;) I think a pre-req for dying is visiting Orlando, with a lay over in Atlanta...:(

Up-side is not much need for a fast lens with all that sun.haha

Thanks for the help Canuck, I was trapped in my own paradigm with the answer right in front of me.

[arthurb]

Canuck wrote:
As for buying land in Florida, that can be a realy money making orddeal. Me, I'd never live there, even if it was the last place on earth. I have my reasons, like it's too flipping hot most of the year and other reasons that are plaguing the rest of the US. I'm not going into it here. You might get an idea why if you look thru my previous posts. I'll leave it at that.

I own land in Florida, (my house sits on it).

I have read many of your posts Canuk, but I guess I missed the political ones.

Most people's view of Florida is tainted by the 2000 election. Remember that debacle was cause by retired liberals who moved to Florida, these folks who can keep track of 40 bingo cards at once, were confused by clearly marked ballots, and a system that had been used in many previous elections with no complaints.

To put a little relevance in this post here is my picture (from a Florida Beach) that shows the viefinder coverage of the (or at least my) Digital Rebel.
http://www.ajb.com/eos/view.htm

[dtrayers]

Socks.

It appears that with your film background that you are well versed in photography and as such would have no problem with a D-SLR. But is this your first foray into digital? If it is, consider your investment will go way beyond the cost of a D-SLR body and lenses.

How is your computer setup and operating system? If you don't already have a good computer, photo editor, printer, and card reader, you'll soon need them. Also with a D-SLR the image sizes will require at least a 512MB card (or several). And since your at the D-SLR level, probably calibration software/hardware and a good monitor are in order. If you get into Photoshop, then several books on the subject are also a good idea.

Then there's the external flash (if you don't already have one), and the remote release.

My point is, that you should consider the total investment, and that the price difference between the 10D and a decent lens and D-Rebel with the kit lens could pay for a good printer and Photoshop Elements and a couple of CF cards.

I faced the same dilemma as you, and I decided that for the price of the D-Rebel with the kit lens I was able to invest the extra money in my photography infrastructure. For me, that was more important than the lacking features of the D-Rebel. Sure, somday I'll upgrade when I can't stand that I can't select the focus more anymore, but when I do my investment in the computer and software will remain.

Of course, you have to decide what's right for you, and the suggestions of handling both cameras and comparing the results are spot on.

[Canuck]

Sockfilter wrote:

Yeah I can’t figure Florida out either, like you said too hot, men/women running around with next to nothing on...;) I think a pre-req for dying is visiting Orlando, with a lay over in Atlanta...:(

Up-side is not much need for a fast lens with all that sun.haha


This has absolutely nothing to do with photograhy, but...

It is a mega rant about why I am not struck on the US. Some of this you may find offensive, but it is the world as I see it, you wanted to know and this is only one of many problems I had there! Don't say I didn't warn you! I've been to DisneyWorld/Orlando, but that was between 15 amd 20 yrs ago!

I spent 3+ yrs in Tucson, Arizona. I had no intention of going there, ever, but Uncle Sam sent me there anyway and was the most miserable 3+ years of my life thus far. Yes there is eyecandy there for days, but I grew up in a 4 season world and I really like the 4 seasons.
Speaking of which, I was with a friend getting some petrol, and we both noticed a hot chick. Ok, so we were doing the logical guy thing, checking her out and commenting. A few min later a mexican, being extremely confrontational asked us why we were looking at "his girl"? Mind you to us there was no conceivable way that we could correlate the 2. She was just walking in the parking lot of the petrol station, and the mexican was pumping petrol. Anyway, so he asks us and my friend got irate and he chickened out, and paid for the petrol. When said person returned, my friend asked what his problem was and the mexican pulled out a gun! Yes, a .357 magnum. My friend was about to rock him. There is the law that in cases where you are in fear of your life, all bets are off. Hmm... doesn't get much worse than having a gun pulled on you, does it? Yep, that was about a week before I left. I have been to Florida several times and am not stuck. It is ok for holiday but not to live. I can tolerate it for short amounts of time.

I have had my fill of 110 degree days, sunshine, and scum of the earth to last me the rest of my life. Thankfully, I left Tucson! I have no desire to see it ever again! That's why I like England, it is cool weather and rarely sunny. My favourite weather is completely overcast and no rain. That's how it is a lot of the time here I am in England. This is great! When I got here for the first time in I can't remmeber how long, I could open my eyes and look around without squinting! There is also the fact that I am not bothered if I don't see the sun for weeks or months. It seems like almost everyone would go off the deepend if there wasn't any sun for 3 days. I got really nasty with someone that said that they couldn't live without the sun. That may be something for another time. I was definitely not a nice person there. As it worked out I was extreemely irritable there and kinda like Seasonal Affective Disorder, but was needing a real winter. There wasn't a winter gone by that I didn't go North for the cold. One winter, I went to Western Washington State and loved it! It took 3 days, but after that I felt like I could run a marathon. I can't explain it, it just was. The docs there were perplexed. The other problem I had was I found out I'm very allergic to Oleander. No way of cold ever having a real frost and killing it, reason 1,000 to like the cold. Another thing about the cold. What about colds/Flu, do you know of any strain that can take -40?
I don't. Also, your odds of surviving an accident vehicular of otherwise are a ton better in cold. You get stuck in the desert, and you're toast, literally; in cold, your body slows down.

The other bit I was eluding to is that we (the US) are getting invaded from the south (cuba and mexico) and that isn't cool at all and no one is doing jack about it! The bleeding heart liberals I had to deal with in Tucsom made me about as anti-American as one could ever be and I am American! I just chose Canuck because where I come from is not too far from the US/Canadian border (in the US) and I get called a Canuck over here a lot. Not a Yank or American, but ask me if I'm Canadian. It makes me want to puke! I don't feel one bit sorry for those in countries to the south of the US. Another think, it will be a winter like I'm used to (well below zero (like -50 for a few days and not go above freezing for a month or so) and 12 ft of snow in Tucson, Arizona before I even think of learning spanish. Not to mention seeing it all over the place on packages makes me want to sort it my way! It is absolutely ludicris that this is happening. Ok, what would the founding Fathers say? Was the American Revolution in vain? What we gaind out independence to give it away to some 3rd wold countries some 200odd year. The way it is going, I'm flat out disgusted and may change citizenship. I can see the US going to hell in the next 20-40 years. If spanish is made another language, we might as well write off the US. They are fleecing the US gov't for millions if not billions annually! I really hate having to pay into the US heath care (which I work damn hard for and get taxes taken out of my hard earned paycheck) system to see someone like the aforementioned take out of it with no intention of ever contribting. There were those that made the trip to the US border, had the kid and then the kid was a US citizen by birth. That's crap! Now like the US is gonna deport them; I would in a heartbeat and make an example of them! That's about what happens to people in my job when they screw up seriously, they get made an example of. Is it going to take another revolution to sort it? I'd just hate to see such a great country that fought so hard to get England out be ruined by this. England has a similar problem with Asylum Seekers as they are known here. Most of these are of Middle Eastern or African type. Il se peut que la France soit le seul endroit que je vivrai. (It may be that France is the only place that I will live.) Yes I can speak French decently, too. There isn't enough IMHO, going for the southern US to make me live there. The end of the day, I'll be back up north having a great time with my ton of snow!

[Canuck]

arthurb wrote:
Canuck wrote:
As for buying land in Florida, that can be a realy money making orddeal. Me, I'd never live there, even if it was the last place on earth. I have my reasons, like it's too flipping hot most of the year and other reasons that are plaguing the rest of the US. I'm not going into it here. You might get an idea why if you look thru my previous posts. I'll leave it at that.

I own land in Florida, (my house sits on it).

I have read many of your posts Canuk, but I guess I missed the political ones.

Most people's view of Florida is tainted by the 2000 election. Remember that debacle was cause by retired liberals who moved to Florida, these folks who can keep track of 40 bingo cards at once, were confused by clearly marked ballots, and a system that had been used in many previous elections with no complaints.

To put a little relevance in this post here is my picture (from a Florida Beach) that shows the viefinder coverage of the (or at least my) Digital Rebel.
http://www.ajb.com/eos/view.htm


I try to stay away from politics as I have really radical ideas, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Last I checked, this was a Photography type forum. My previous post sums it up. Enough said.

[defordphoto]

arthurb wrote:
I just think it is funny that the 300d 10d debate continues.

Since the 300d has a subset of the 10d features, the only reason to buy the 10d is if those extra features are worth $500 to you. PLus the price of a lens if you don't have Canon EF lenses.

I found that yes the extra features are nice, but they were not worth the price difference to me. IMHO the features that are missing (except for FEC) are not used very often. And with the freeware FEC program available its even better.

The Bottom Line is the Bottom Line :-) If you have the money, buy the 10d Otherwise, the 300d will do a great job for 99% of all your photography.

Maybe so, but people also need to understand that the only thing similar between a 10D and a Rebel (and even they are not exactly the same) is the 6.3mp sensor.

They are not built the same and are not constructed the same. The reflex mirror system is less advanced as are the internal electronics.

So, comparing the 10D to the Rebel is about the same as comparing the 10D to the 1D.

They are not the same camera.

[Canuck]

Sockfilter wrote:

Thanks for the help Canuck, I was trapped in my own paradigm with the answer right in front of me.



Ok, now that I've finished my ranting and probably pissed off a few people, glad we could help you towards answering your own question. That is what we're here for, right? Which one are you going for, the 10D or 300D? I was just wondering, and probably others are interested too. You know, soemtimes it takes us to ask you a few questions to really think about it. It's really tough and I've seen this time and time again, similar posts and we have no clue about the ablility of the poster and what the intended use of the camera will be.
We also have no clue if that person is financially well off, or going to have to pinch pennies or somewhere in the middle. That can influence the decision on our part to reccommend Sigma EX glass or, Canon L glass. Making reccomendations is a lot like as we call it blowing hot air. We can only do so much, especially when it comes to people that jump from the p&s type to the DSLRs. Well, Idunno...It is 0330 here, and it's time for me to go horizontal (to sleep).

[Belmondo]

Canuck wrote:I try to stay away from politics as I have really radical ideas, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Last I checked, this was a Photography type forum. My previous post sums it up. Enough said.


Probably a good idea, especially with your strident attitudes towards Spanish-speaking people. Just remember: in their eyes, we're the interlopers. After all, they were here first.

Aside from the question of 'why did they make the Drebel silver?', this is one of the biggest issues we face in this country.

[focusnclick]

Thanks for the understanding and the links to your questions and answers. They really summed up the delimina I am going through. I am really leaning towards the 10D. I have decided that I won't be happy with the DR. Now I a just need to do some research on the "N" ...

[Sockfilter]

Canuck,

Wow you really unloaded there. Hope you feel better after getting all that off your chest..:) Hope you don’t have any bad dreams after bringing up the past...:(

I worked for Uncle same for a few years, he wouldn’t let me go anywhere. I tried for Guam and Turkey with no luck. Spent some time in Australia on my own and if I could move, that would be the place, nice blokes over there.

For me the 300d was never a consideration, I just jump on this thread as the original poster was comparing the 300d-10D-D100. I'm only interested in the 10D or D100.

Lucky for me I have a friend that has every piece of Nikon equipment known to man, but he is Nikon biased...:( So it looks like I will go the 10D route for a comparison before my own eyes, with an opportunity to return it.

Dtrayers,

Yes I am very knowledgeable about film photography, actually own a medium format outfit that cost as much as the 1D or D2H, not to mention all my 35mm equipment. They are all investments…:) I just don’t like making these kinds of investments without some hands on proof. Thanks for the advice on the computer equipment, However computer’s I do know, along with my minor in Photography, I have a B.S. degree in Computer Info Science, whole house is wired. I wish I would have gotten a photography major, but that is how things go. Still thinking of getting my Master in Photography, just need the time and funds.

Now just because I know computers and I know film photography, does not make me knowledgeable about Digital photography, however the learning curve will be minimal compared to those who have neither or only 1 of these backgrounds.

I will be the first to tell you that I don’t know everything, I wish I did sometimes. My theory is if I can learn at least one new thing a day, then the day was not a total waste.

Thanks for everyone’s help and I hope the original poster (FocusnClick) has learned something out of this thread, if not digital photography related, maybe where to or not to visit/travel….:)

Que te vaya bien.
(Have a good one)

[arthurb]

RFMSports wrote:
... people also need to understand that the only thing similar between a 10D and a Rebel (and even they are not exactly the same) is the 6.3mp sensor.

They are not built the same and are not constructed the same. The reflex mirror system is less advanced as are the internal electronics.

So, comparing the 10D to the Rebel is about the same as comparing the 10D to the 1D.

They are not the same camera.

Actually, the 300d is a newer design and may have some technological improvements over the 10d .

They are not constructed the same, but the 300d does not deserve the slaps that some reviewers have made about a "Plastic Feel" It feels fine in your hands and with the less weight, is actually easier to steady for handheld shots.

The step between the 10d and 1d is very large while the step between the 300d and 10d is fairly small.

For most people who don't make a living from their photography, the 300d will do an excellent job.

[Andy_T]

Hi Focusnclick,

coming back to Part II your original question - stay with Nikon or jump on the Canon bandwagon?

Of course, an important issue here is lenses for the Nikon system that you already own. However, you should observe that a 'good' lens on a film camera does not have to be a good lens on digital.

The general advice on the forum here is that if you want to get out of your high-end digital SLR what you pay for (as opposed to a simpler camera), you really *have* to invest in good lenses - be it L, EX, XR or - most likely also Nikon ED.

Canon 'Consumer' lenses (with the exception of primes and some very good zoom lenses) are reported not to provide the quality necessary for a 6 MP digital SLR to get top sharp photographs. I assume this will be similar with Nikon cameras/lenses.

So what's the result of this? If you have 'average' lenses in your Nikon set, be sure to either test them out on the Digital SLR you want to buy or ask people who have experience with that lens on the camera.

My sugestion for you would be - if you have access to a place lending cameras - to borrow both cameras (D100 / 10D) over a weekend and do your own tests. There just is no better way to find out for sure.

Regards,
Andy

[defordphoto]

arthurb wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
... people also need to understand that the only thing similar between a 10D and a Rebel (and even they are not exactly the same) is the 6.3mp sensor.

They are not built the same and are not constructed the same. The reflex mirror system is less advanced as are the internal electronics.

So, comparing the 10D to the Rebel is about the same as comparing the 10D to the 1D.

They are not the same camera.

Actually, the 300d is a newer design and may have some technological improvements over the 10d .

RFMSports writes:Simple answer: No. The build of the Drebel is actually a backwards step in technology to keep costs down with the split circuit board designs, mirror system and the fact that it's built in Taiwan and not Japan to save money. There is more and more coming out about how the Drebel is built

They are not constructed the same, but the 300d does not deserve the slaps that some reviewers have made about a "Plastic Feel" It feels fine in your hands and with the less weight, is actually easier to steady for handheld shots.

RFMSports writes:That's subjective but I'll agree with that for the most part. My D60 also has a plastic body and it's just a little lighter is all. It doesn't feel any less or more plastic that any other camera I have shot. As we know there are some plastics that are stronger than steel so the use of plastics doesn't bother me one bit.

The step between the 10d and 1d is very large while the step between the 300d and 10d is fairly small.

RFMSports writes:Not really all that much between the 10D and 1D. Faster AF, larger buffer, more frames per second, better build. Sound familiar? :)

For most people who don't make a living from their photography, the 300d will do an excellent job.

RFMSports writes:I agree with that statement 100%.

[defordphoto]

Focusnclick: Canon vs. Nikon - Well I have not used Nikon, but there's a simple fact out there that's well known: Canon makes better glass.

[Derek Smith]

I do not have the D100 nor the DR neither have I ever used one, however, should you manage to engineer the oportunity to directly compare either of these with the 10D then I would make one comment that you should consider.

The 10D is a bugger for bringing out the weaknesses of a lens. If you have a lens which is a little soft on an EOS body, it will be SOFT on the 10D. If you have a lens prone to flare, then watch out and use the biggest 'flowerpot' hood you can find. Likewise, any weakness in contrast and the 10D will pick it up. This critical sensitivity to lens weaknesses is why serious 10D users are running to the Lglass.

While using 'good' lenses with the 10D can have you relying on every ounce of experience to get good images, when the 10D is married to excellent glass the Wow factor seems to come for free.

So - when you do your comparison, remember - The quality of the results you get out of the 10D will be biased by lens quality to a far greater degree than you will have ever experienced with their use on a film body. Your comparisons will be of the body/lens ensemble, not just the bodies.

I do not know if the D100 has the same lens issue - you will have to research this for yourself.

[Sockfilter]

Derek Smith,

Those are the un-biased insider answers that I am looking for, Heck I can train a monkey to compare spec sheets...:) But those things that you mention are the things that one will never find in any spec sheet.

Good on ya Derek..;)

[Sockfilter]

Oh yeah I forgot to praise ANDY as well....:)

As I sit here and try to wake up, getting my thoughts in order for the day, I¡¦m starting to pinpoint what it is I need to do to make a decision.

Yes I need to try them both out and do my own comparison.

Just the same, I do need to trust others thoughts/opinions/advice, although the weeding process can be difficult at times. Since I may be able to test both cameras, the truth is I may not be able to test a portion of the High-End Glass genera¡K..:(

As Derek mentioned the marriage of the 10D to its L glass, the avid/semi-pro/pro photographer should be married to their camera. As in a real-life relationship, over time you learn how to make your partner laugh, smile, cry and above all else, how to make them PURR. Those are the dirty little secrets that I want to know. How to make the 10D PURR¡K...:)

Can you relate????

[Andy_T]

Sockfilter wrote:
As in a real-life relationship, over time you learn how to make your partner laugh, smile, cry and above all else, how to make them PURR. Those are the dirty little secrets that I want to know. How to make the 10D PURR¡K...:)




Hmmm. Instead, I can tell you how you make your REAL LIVE WIFE cry :)

It has something to do with leaving the bill for L glass open on your kitchen table...

Regards,
Andy

[Canuck]

belmondo wrote:
Canuck wrote:I try to stay away from politics as I have really radical ideas, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Last I checked, this was a Photography type forum. My previous post sums it up. Enough said.


Probably a good idea, especially with your strident attitudes towards Spanish-speaking people. Just remember: in their eyes, we're the interlopers. After all, they were here first.

Aside from the question of 'why did they make the Drebel silver?', this is one of the biggest issues we face in this country.


Tom,
Idunno if I feel any better or not. I guess time will tell. Was the Spanish-American war for nothing? Didn't we kick their butt? The word royally comes to mind!

Some British history:
Look at the history of England...do you know how many times it has changed hands so to speak? Each successor has brought their influence to it. There were many people in the beginning fighting for this land including, Vikings, Danes, Saxons and others. Then it was the Romans figiting with the natives, being Iceini and others (Boudicca ring the bell?) in the extremely late BC, and early AD years. Then it was the Saxons and others after the Roman empire fell. Next it was the Normans that invaded and William the Conqueror in Oct, 1066. And now it is a hodge-podge. Now the controversy is over immigration by asylum seekers. Most of these are fleeing political/religious prosecution. There are a lot of places to mention from where they are coming to include the Middle East, Africa, Eastern Europe, and a lot more. Each successful invasion has resulted in the adaptation of the winning party's way of life.

Back to photography...
The DR might be a rehash of the Elan IIE, the retro look? Could it be to discern between the 10D and DR crowd? Could it be a trend setting type deal? I could think of a lot of other questions! Idunno.

Man this is getting expensive chucking a few more pence out for the lot...

[focusnclick]

thanks to everyone for putting their 2 cents into the mix.

I did take the advice of many and checked out the web sites and read each and every one of your replies.

I also spent this afternoon at the "camera store" looking, feeling, and discussing the 10D & the D100. I felt much more educated thanks to all fo you. We went through each feature and compared both cameras. It is amazing how much more alike they are than different. Each has a few different features, but nothing major that could easily sway you easily either way.
I think I am going to take up the salesman offer to bring in my lens and try both cameras. Then he said if I wanted to I could purchase memory for both cameras. That way I could take identical pictures run them through photoshop and print.

and so the quest continues....

focusnclick

[mjryan67]

I went through this same system decision Nikon vs. Canon a few months ago, at that time having an aged Minolta Maxim system. There was a couple of things that pushed me over the edge for Canon, the first one was low light performance, I viewed alot of samples from both cameras and the 10D had much better image quality and less noise at higher ISO.

From what I saw ISO 800 was about as high as you could go on the D100 with good results whereas the 10D was very acceptable at ISO 1600. Now for me my main purpose is Weddings and portraits so low light was a consideration for me.

The second major reason was the selection and quality of the Canon lens line.

I have shot 3 wedding with it so far and have been very happy, but I have see great work from a D100 as well.

Good luck with your decision.

MJR

[defordphoto]

focusnclick wrote:
thanks to everyone for putting their 2 cents into the mix.

I did take the advice of many and checked out the web sites and read each and every one of your replies.

I also spent this afternoon at the "camera store" looking, feeling, and discussing the 10D & the D100. I felt much more educated thanks to all fo you. We went through each feature and compared both cameras. It is amazing how much more alike they are than different. Each has a few different features, but nothing major that could easily sway you easily either way.
I think I am going to take up the salesman offer to bring in my lens and try both cameras. Then he said if I wanted to I could purchase memory for both cameras. That way I could take identical pictures run them through photoshop and print.

and so the quest continues....

focusnclick



It's so refreshing to see someone make a major purchase like this in the proper sequence. The majority dive off the dSLR cliff and then come flying into here posting a thread like: "Now tell me what the hell I bought and why did I do it?"

You've just given me and idea for the FAQ we're working on.