* * * Share Photos CHALLENGE * * *

[ilya]

The folks over at Share Photos have been talking about you all.

They say you're a bunch of measurebators who never take pictures. They also say that you perform devious sexual acts with your equipment. They say that unless its in a white dress or a tux you don't have a clue of what exposure to use.

I tried to tell them that this mostly isn't true. I told them that just because we sleep with our kit it does not mean we engage in sexual relations. I also told them that taking pictures of rulers is an art form if carried out with specific direction, precise measurements, and exact replication of settings between lenses.

They don't care. They want to see proof. They are throwing down the glove, the gauntlet, the challenge - prove yourself in a true test of skills.

The name of the skills challenge is Long Exposure.

Just as the name implies, you need to take a picture of something (no, not of your own equipment) with a slow shutter speed. How slow - you decide. The slower the better. This takes place between now and December 19th.

See further instructions at

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21322

Oh yea - they welcome all the newbies and even offer some constructive advice on how to actually take a picture, and promise no roasting, baking or flaming even if you do mention hacking a 300D.

:p

[GenEOS]

OK, I sent you one....

[defordphoto]

You'll just get pictures of rulers at 1-3 seconds.

[Belmondo]

RFMSports wrote:
You'll just get pictures of rulers at 1-3 seconds.

Jim:
You are wicked! Lightning will strike you.

Tom

[ilya]

Come to think of it, I've never ever seen a picture from Tom except one of Tom. Hmm. I'll expect a slow shutter of you holding a ruler then.

[Belmondo]

ilya wrote:
Come to think of it, I've never ever seen a picture from Tom except one of Tom. Hmm. I'll expect a slow shutter of you holding a ruler then.

I recall a recent incident in this very forum where someone assumed you were a female, and you politely set the record straight.

Allow me to do the same.

To wit: I am not a photographer. I cannot take a decent picture to save my soul. If I could take a picture of a ruler, I would happily do so.

I buy this stuff and carry it around to impress people. Occasionally I accidentally bump the shutter release thingamajig and a picture happens. They are never good and I won’t post them.

I have gravitated towards two ‘specialties’ within the general hobby of photography:
1. Buying stuff
2. Pretending to be knowledgeable.

I am very good at the first…..generally recognized as ‘pathetic’ at the second.

Any questions?

Tom

[ilya]

You are known for a) your subtle sense of humor; b) a pretty good knowledge of the gadgetry; and b) your unique ability to produce colorful renditions of the 10D. I'm sure that you are also very good at shopping, since you now have two 70-200's. However, I would guess that you are probably way too humble when it comes to your actual photographic abilities. No matter, maybe that's a sign that you're really an artist as defined by Ken Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm) to quote:

"...No one ever sees their work since they have crummy ability to promote themselves, and sadly, usually don't even appreciate their own excellent work. Those that do drop down to Whore, which sadly and paradoxically means you will never see the work of a true artist unless you know one personally. Good artists are usually too embarrassed to show their work to anyone unless you are intimate with them, since their work is their soul."

Or maybe not. Only you'd know

:)

[Belmondo]

Ilya:
Thank you; you're too kind.

The truth is, I'm here mainly to have fun, and you guys are all wonderful---even the crabby ones. I once made an analogy between this forum and the corner bar where you hang out with your friends. As I recall, I got jumped on for that one, but I really think it's apt.

Again, thanks for your sentiments.

Tom

P.S. Everyone knows who Norman Rockwell was, but I'm one of the few people in this group that actually remembers the Saturday Evening Post and all the wonderful covers he did for them. That was before paper had been invented, and they were printed on tree bark, and later, buckskin.

Damn, I'm old.

[defordphoto]

belmondo wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
You'll just get pictures of rulers at 1-3 seconds.

Jim:
You are wicked! Lightning will strike you.

Tom

Someone had to say it. If it wasn't me, it would have been you. :)

[Canuck]

Man I needed a good laugh, after that post I did on the person deciding between a 10D and 300D. I basically said that what this person is after is unknown as the post was way too vague and how irritated I am only seeing that type post for the millionth time it seems. I know those of us that have been around for awhile know what I'm talking about.

[defordphoto]

Canuck: Seems that people have become lazy -- yes, even lazier (if you can imagine that) with the popularity of the Internet.

A quick Google search would reveal hours of surfing for the ins and outs of the Canon line of digital SLR's, but some people need to be told what's hot and what's not and they'll surf right into a forum like this expecting free advice from the pros, semi-pros and amateur photographers that forums such a this attract.

The same questions will be rotated time and time and time and time and time again.

What lens do I choose
What's the difference between this lens/camera model and this lens/camera model
What's an f-stop?
What is THE proper settings for night shooting
RAW vs. JPEG

And on and on and on and on.

As Tom points out, we sometimes wonder if many of these people actually use their cameras as they were originally intended: To capture the world around you as you see it.

That, IMO, is the wonder of photography and with the advent of the digital age, many folks have been immersed with technical mumbo-jumbo and miss the art the lies right before their eyes daily.

[Canuck]

Jim,
That is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to doing your homework. How hard is it to type in a search engine waht you're looking for? How do you think I got to know the camera review sites? I went to google and typed "+digital+camera+reviews" that simple. It is cool that we have a really diverse lot here from pro to amateur. I completely understand making an informed decision too. I'm going to e-mail Pekka and see if we can't get an FAQ going for newbies and see if we can't get them to look at that before proceeding to the real forum. It will be like a newbies FAQ, or something like that. It would be rather easy to do as there is a ton if info here and the rest is cut, paste and clean up. Maybe that will clear up a lot of otherwise repetitive posts. Maybe, I too am ranting on a pet peeve of mine. What next? God forbid, "What's a camera (digital, or film not being hte issue)?"

BTW, I look forward to those ruler pics! :)

[ilya]

Dude, we just went through all that

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20580#121077

Pekka isn't going to help you. If you want to maintain a FAQ thread, you have to keep bumping.

[ron chappel]

While i'm not challenging you on your problems with people that don't do research,i would never turn away someone that askes what an f stop is.
To understand that shutter speed,film speed,etc,etc is all interchangable (+ the facts on how many stops a film can capture)is one of the magical breakthroughs of understanding how to photograph

[Canuck]

ilya wrote:
Dude, we just went through all that

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20580#121077

Pekka isn't going to help you. If you want to maintain a FAQ thread, you have to keep bumping.


I was doing more of a followup than anything else. Sri if if it seems repetitive. You have to admit is is really frustrating sometimes.

I guess if we have to bump, so be it.

[Canuck]

ron chappel wrote:
While i'm not challenging you on your problems with people that don't do research,i would never turn away someone that askes what an f stop is.
To understand that shutter speed,film speed,etc,etc is all interchangable (+ the facts on how many stops a film can capture)is one of the magical breakthroughs of understanding how to photograph


There's questions that can be answered w/o posting. I get hacked off with posts that can be answered by going to any seach engine and find out just as well, if not better than we can answer the question. Another one is that questions that were answered last week/month get asked again. Why else would there be an archive?

Then there are the technical marvels to this hobby. That is the cool bit, but still it can be answered by looking it up on the 'net thru any search engine. I know that we're all here to better ourselves the end of the day, but where does the line get crossed into insanity?
There are sites that break it down to understandable words that just about anyone can understand, so why not makeuse of them. Do we need to post a thread titled "Newbies click here" and keep bumping it? That seems really daft. The other option is to have a website that can be an offshoot to this one and have Pekka link to it. That's option B as it were. All you would need is questions, and hyperlink them to if not the same, another page. That sounds really simple. That shouldn't take much at all.

Idunno...

[NickC]

Canuck, what you say is true, but the reality is that people -- newbies or not -- will continue to ask newbie type questions despite the power of the search engine on the web or the archive of a posting board.

Why? I don't care. It JUST IS. And whether or not anyone likes it, it will continue to be.

I have been online since at least around 1989, when there were only BBS's and before the web got popular and it took forever to download a 50k file on your 2400 baud modem. Even then, newbies asked newbie type questions.

It's nothing, er, new. And it isn't going to change. So why get all bothered by it. Help the new folks, they will appreciate it (or they damn well better, heh).

(I ran a couple BBS's back in the days, and now I just run a posting board)

[agit-prop]

Why not just stuff the link into your sig using the [ url ] tags?

Anyway, to keep this ON TOPIC (see above) I am really looking forward to this long exposure challenge and I have a couple interesting ideas...

[defordphoto]

NickC: Yup. Exactly my point and I also ran several BBS's back in 80's until about 1991. There will always be newbies with newbies questions. Nothing wrong with that, but it's pretty obvious when people have made absolutely no effort to find something on their own.

That being said, we have had quite a few very well prepared, new photographers come on this board with some great insight and information. We have to keep that all moving and yes, help the newbies too, but I'll avoid the stupid ones with the stupid questions (sorry folks, there IS such a thing as stupid question) because it's waaaaay to easy to find the basics with a few clicks.

Slow shutter speed...Hmmm....Might have to do something with that tonight.

[Canuck]

All I was trying to say, was that they should read the manual. There isn't anything more frustrating than having simple questions that can be answered by RTFM/STFW! I realise there will be newbies and I'm not trying to make an example of them. It is like RFM said!

I guess I will ignore the stupid questions then.

The flip side is that I like to offer assistance where I can. Idunno

[mjordan]

What kind of rulers are you looking for? Prime Ministers, Kings, Dictators, Emperors, Presidents? Any pacticular type? Some rulers if you have to long of an exposure to them you end up dead or in prison.

;D


Mike

[ilya]

Canuck

It is what it is... One can always ignore the post.

Agit-Prop wrote:
Why not just stuff the link into your sig using the [ url ] tags?


That should absolutely work.

mjordan wrote:

What kind of rulers are you looking for? Prime Ministers, Kings, Dictators, Emperors, Presidents? Any pacticular type? Some rulers if you have to long of an exposure to them you end up dead or in prison.
Mike

LOL. I hear that an exposure of Bill Clinton is pretty easy to come by, or at least was a couple of years ago...

[mutepoint]

As this thread has gotten off-track, let me bring it back to its original topic by proposing Canuck enter this photo challenge. I, for one, would love to see his masterful skill in photography. Although I am new to this forum, I can already tell, by his selfrighteous indignation toward newbies, that he must be quite the photographer. So let us learn. A picture, afterall, says a thousand words.

[Canuck]

mutepoint wrote:
As this thread has gotten off-track, let me bring it back to its original topic by proposing Canuck enter this photo challenge. I, for one, would love to see his masterful skill in photography. Although I am new to this forum, I can already tell, by his selfrighteous indignation toward newbies, that he must be quite the photographer. So let us learn. A picture, afterall, says a thousand words.


I beg to differ, this so called selfrighteous indignation as you put it is in that there are many questions that can be answered in one of 2 ways: 1) RTFM(read the flipping manual), and 2) STFW(search the flipping web). There is also nothing worse than answering the same question month in months out. There are a ton of resources out there that gave me an excellent idea what to expect in the 10D that I have and why I got it.
As for my ability, well, I decline comment, but check out this one:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17348 as I took both pics when I first got the Sigma 120-300 F2.8 EX lens. I'm having trouble deciding what to send, as it was. I have landscape pics, aircraft pics, castle pics, and more. What size are you looking at for the finished product, in pixels like 600x800 pixels; or inches like 5x7 inches. It doesn't matter to me. Just for the record, to me the Tenby Beach pics looks like poop compared to the real one. That's JPEG compression at it's worst.

[Belmondo]

Having only been in this forum about five months, I’m still a relative newcomer. Yet, I’ve been here long enough to see the same question being raised again and again (sometimes word-for-word).

I didn’t think I had strong opinions one way or the other as to how the people posting these questions should be handled. After a little reflection, though, I’m starting to think that maybe we need to lighten up with some of our comments.

Certainly most of the answers to these ‘newbie-type’ questions can be found with minimal research on the net, in the manual, and especially elsewhere in this forum. On the other hand, we need to be sensitive to two factors involving new users:
1. Many of them are completely overwhelmed at the relative complexity of the DSLR camera. They’re encountering terms and technology that are totally alien to them. They don’t know what constitutes a ‘dumb’ question and what doesn’t (nor should they at this early stage of their development).
2. Some are just trying to start a dialog---i.e., making themselves known. Asking a question is their way of saying, “Hello, I’m here.” It doesn’t hurt to answer in kind. A broad, general sort of question probably seems ideal for that purpose even though we’ve all discussed ‘What’s the best lens for a 10D?’ till we’re blue in the face.

One of the characteristics of this forum that attracted me initially was the overall friendliness of the crew. Even the caustic wit of some of its members was ultimately recognizable as good-natured give and take. I really hate to see that attitude fall by the wayside, especially if all we have to do is ignore the threads that offend us by their inanity.

Members come, and members go; I’ve noticed a few names that have disappeared since I’ve been here (no connection, I hope). The only way this forum is going to continue to thrive is with a steady infusion of new people. Making new users feel welcome is something we all have to work at. They won’t be inexperienced forever.

Tom

[CoolToolGuy]

Tom (belmondo),

I agree wholeheartedly with your response. Newbies may be newbies to the topic and/or newbies to forums, and some may just be feeling things out.

I was heavily immersed in film photography for several years, and set it aside as a major hobby about 15 years ago. I continued to take pictures, but I did not attempt to upgrade my equipment or stay current. I recently decided it was time to make the jump to digital thanks to the G3. It has the features that allow photography, not just snapshots. However, in the beginning I was overwhelmed by the buttons and controls. Since I have always been a Canon bigot I knew what most of the features were, but I did not know how to get to them, so what would typically happen is I would miss the opportunity and then go home and RTFM. The next time I wanted to use the feature I would (maybe) remember how to get it. But I feel like I was a step ahead of the game thanks to my basic understanding of photography in general, and Canon features in particular. Sometimes it helps to hear the feature described by someone that has been there, rather than the dry description that shows up in the text of the manual.

Those of us that have been haunting this site daily may get tired of hearing the same thing over and over, but the newbies are fresh into it. They may be confused by all of the techno-babble and come here to find a way through it. It would be easier if they didn't have to go through a 'hazing', or be forced to search the site for the word 'lens' and wade through virtually every single post on the board. I think a digital FAQ topic or newbies topic would be a bonus, but that is not up to me, and it would probably be a lot of work for someone, especially on a free site.

Have patience with these folks. Some have alternate agendas or nasty things to say, but those things weed themselves out over time. Some just don't know.

All of which is one man's opinion.

Have Fun
Rick Stecker (CoolToolGuy)

[Belmondo]

Sometimes the best thing we can do is to post a link to a thread where these things have been discussed in detail. It really is a lot easier than re-inventing the wheel every time a repetitive question gets asked. And it's infinitely kinder and gentler than saying, 'RTFM,' no matter how well-intentioned we are.

[defordphoto]

I love helping a newbie who is willing to help themselves. I truly enjoy helping someone who has checked this source and checked that source and then asks an intelligent question.

Rather than: What lens should I choose?

It should be: I have researched this lens and this lens and that lens and need a little help deciding. I shoot landscapes, blah blah blah.

There was one question from a newb here awhile back that wanted (nearly DEMANDED) our entire photographic history when answering the question.

Yeah right, I jumped all over that one -- NOT!

It really comes down to forum etiquette really. Take a day or so to check the heartbeat of the forum and to know who the regulars are and what makes this community tick before just jumping in like a bull in a china shop all demanding of the vast knowledge this place holds through its members.

And never, never lose your sense of humor. That's very important too.

[Belmondo]

RFMSports wrote:There was one question from a newb here awhile back that wanted (nearly DEMANDED) our entire photographic history when answering the question.

I remember that one. I didn't just blow him off completely, though. I asked him if we were going to get paid for answering it.

Anyway, I'm presently on page 372 of my answer to his question, but am withholding submission pending receipt of proof of payment.

Tom

[daaaveman]

Agreed. As a newbie to this community, I feel that I have followed the rules of ettiquette and not bugged you guys. This is a wonderful source of info for those of us just getting out of the point-and-shoot game. I took about 5,000 pics this year and feel that I cheated myself by having cheap equipment. I have very much enjoyed my daily visits here and have laughed out loud several times. I feel much more knowledgable than I did a month ago and I thank you all for that. It has cost me a hell of a lot of money to listen to you though!!! 10d, L lenses.....sheesh. My wife thinks I'm crazy. I just haven't told her that you can buy lenses any cheaper! Thanks for the knowledge and the welcome that i have received from several of you.

One note though. I would like to see more pics posted on a daily basis. I feel I learn as much from your pics as your comments - with that, let's take some long-exposure shots!

[defordphoto]

daaaveman wrote:
Agreed. As a newbie to this community, I feel that I have followed the rules of ettiquette and not bugged you guys. This is a wonderful source of info for those of us just getting out of the point-and-shoot game. I took about 5,000 pics this year and feel that I cheated myself by having cheap equipment. I have very much enjoyed my daily visits here and have laughed out loud several times. I feel much more knowledgable than I did a month ago and I thank you all for that. It has cost me a hell of a lot of money to listen to you though!!! 10d, L lenses.....sheesh. My wife thinks I'm crazy. I just haven't told her that you can buy lenses any cheaper! Thanks for the knowledge and the welcome that i have received from several of you.

One note though. I would like to see more pics posted on a daily basis. I feel I learn as much from your pics as your comments - with that, let's take some long-exposure shots!

Oh crap yeah. Long exposure shots. When is that deadline...Hmmm. Maybe tomorrow. Too, too busy now.

This forum has (also) cost me a nice little chunk of change but man, I have some pretty awesome stuff. Got a huge total on the B&H wishlist too that I'll whittle on next year.

Anyway, happy we could help you spend your money. We so enjoy watching the money flow into great camera gear.

[ilya]

Well, measurebators, its over. There are 27 contest entries, posted up for the whole world to see. A couple of them even belong to some folks on this forum. Thanks to those who participated.

Can I ask you to take a couple of minutes and give your opinion on your favorites, i.e. participate in the voting. Its great to have the perspective of such a learned group of folks.

Thanks again, here is the thread -

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21890