Post your opinions - Will 10MP be a standard? + future of DSLRs?

[arunchs]

The XTi, D80, Sony Alpha - all new entry level DSLRs are 10mp, and so is D200. Most people consider 10mp as sufficient for making big prints. I just got myself to thinking - may be 10mp will remain as standard for some years to come. What do you all think? :)

And I also got down to wondering - if the race for megapixels is going to slow down, where will future research be focused on? Some of my guesses:


Reduce the noise and increase the base ISO level
Improve the processors and other components, which allow near zero delays in all areas of data transfer. Like transfer from sensor to buffer, buffer to CF card. We will require faster CF cards too.
Increase sensor size to be of the same size as 35mm film. This helps in cost saving for buyers with an array of 35mm lenses. It also saves money for camera makers who need not invest in research for making new lenses
Eliminate small annoyances like dust on sensor. :)
In a few years, I expect that the need for a physical shutter will be eliminated. Absence of a shutter will greatly improve the camera life. And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies! :evil: What is your take on future of DSLRs? :)

[peterdoomen]

10MP will be the new standard for sure.

But then again, it's not a huge improvement over the 8 MP of the previous generation.

Not my words (only), read that on dpreview in a review.

P.

[myself621]

My guess is that the APS-C sensors will stay at 10mp, while all of Canon's 1 series will go to a 12.7 (or more) full frame sensor and a larger buffer to accomidate the 8.5 frames a second for 40 RAW pics. At least that's what I hope they do.

[Wilt]

Increase sensor size to be of the same size as 35mm film. This helps in cost saving for buyers with an array of 35mm lenses. It also saves money for camera makers who need not invest in research for making new lenses

If smaller sensor costs less to make, and a smaller sensor allows camera components to be smaller, so that it is less total cost to build, the price to the consumer will be less. And the average comsumer cares not a bit about the POTN 'wars' about sensor size! So why should Canon abandon the APS-C format (even if their competitors do come out with FF sensors) when consumers will continue to buy the smaller camera? (Smaller film size did not stop 35mm from taking over from medium format rollfilm!!!)


In a few years, I expect that the need for a physical shutter will be eliminated. Absence of a shutter will greatly improve the camera life. And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies!

Oh, great...the machine gun style photographers can become Gatling gun style photographers, and they can spend ALL of their time postprocessing all those frames in the effort of finding ONE good image.

1000000 monkeys banging on keyboards for how many years will create one good work equivalent to Shakespeare? :rolleyes:

Longer shutter life...will it matter at all, since everyone will have abandoned that camera for the next great technological advancement?!?!? :p

[Andy_T]

It will definitely be the new standard ... until 12 MP entry level cameras come out :wink:

And I also got down to wondering - if the race for megapixels is going to slow down, where will future research be focused on? Some of my guesses:

Reduce the noise and increase the base ISO level
Improve the processors and other components, which allow near zero delays in all areas of data transfer. Like transfer from sensor to buffer, buffer to CF card. We will require faster CF cards too.
Increase sensor size to be of the same size as 35mm film. This helps in cost saving for buyers with an array of 35mm lenses. It also saves money for camera makers who need not invest in research for making new lenses
Eliminate small annoyances like dust on sensor.
In a few years, I expect that the need for a physical shutter will be eliminated. Absence of a shutter will greatly improve the camera life. And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies!

Well, if I remember correctly, most of that was also mentioned when the 20D (and especially 30D) were launched.

Today, you have everybody swearing 'I don't care about more MP, just give me less noisy images' ... and tomorrow (maybe the same) people will ask whether they should upgrade immediately as a new model with +2 MP has just been presented or maybe wait 3 more months:lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[DSLRDreamer]

I can see most or all of your list happening, but I do not think we will see a slow down in the megapixel wars. For most P&S consumers (and some pros and semipros) that is a major selling point and as the technology grows the MP's will naturally follow I think. In 10 years, or even probably five we will likely look back and laugh at those old 10MP models. I started my foray into digital with a cutting edge one megapixel camera, lol.

Technology changes so fast, I think we're in for lots of amazing developments!

[Mark_Cohran]

My thoughts below:

1. Reduce the noise and increase the base ISO level - Reduce the noise, definitely, but I don't see a need to increase the base ISO level, although I'm not sure what you mean. Lower ISO's are good for getting slower shutter speeds which are desired under certain circumstances. The base ISO level of 100 is fairly standard and is just as good a place to start as any other.

2. Improve the processors and other components, which allow near zero delays in all areas of data transfer. Like transfer from sensor to buffer, buffer to CF card. We will require faster CF cards too. Agreed, but with the increase in processing power and data transfer will come increases in cost (at least initially) and internal heat generation. There may be some upper engineering limit to this in the short term as well.

3. Increase sensor size to be of the same size as 35mm film. This helps in cost saving for buyers with an array of 35mm lenses. It also saves money for camera makers who need not invest in research for making new lenses. I don't see things going this way. Canon and Nikon appear to have chosen the 1.6 and 1.5 crop sensor size as the best compromise between sensor size, expense and manufacturing yeilds. Not everyone needs or wants a full frame camera. In fact, for someone with an extensive collection of lenses, the 1.6 crop sensor is great for extending telephoto lenses (reach) and using the best part of each lens. Where it's not so great is for wide angle, but Canon has done a good job of introducing wide angle EF-S lenses to take care of that.

4. Eliminate small annoyances like dust on sensor. This can be reduced, but probably not entirely eliminated. Though the cleaning system introduced withe the XTi seems to show promise.

5. In a few years, I expect that the need for a physical shutter will be eliminated. Absence of a shutter will greatly improve the camera life. And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies! Elimination of the shutter, would though, increase the chance of dust on the sensor filter, but the advantages far outweigh this. Something you didn't mention, but I would be great is the ability to synch with flash at virtually any shutter speed. Super high frame rates would be overkill, and would be limited by buffer size and data transfer rates.

Good discussion concepts though.

Mark

[Wilt]

Something you didn't mention, but I would be great is the ability to synch with flash at virtually any shutter speed.

In the medium format world, that was in-lens leaf shutter!
(although few leaf shutters got above 1/500)

[storeman]

Don't know about losing a physical shutter being on the cards. A lot of P & S cameras have an 'electronic' shutter which introduces shutter lag. The amount of lag would be unacceptable on an SLR camera. There is also the fact that while the physical shutter is closed it acts as an extra layer of protection for the sensor.

Better noise performance would probably be hand in hand with larger sensors if they became the norm. The general concensus seems to be that packing more pixels onto the APS-C sensor is likely to reduce the noise performance.

And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies!

Hmm - that would need some heavy processing power as well as a superfast bus to stuff the data along even at 2mp you would need fast processors and databusses to capture all the data that fast. Guess the memory cards would need to improve in quantum leaps as they are the major bottleneck which limits the burst rates to their current levels.

Will technology advance that much in the near future - I doubt I will live to see all of these come into consumer or pro bodies and I am hoping for at least another 30 years.

[Wilt]

Don't know about losing a physical shutter being on the cards. A lot of P & S cameras have an 'electronic' shutter which introduces shutter lag. The amount of lag would be unacceptable on an SLR camera.

In P&S the shutter lag is caused by the time needed for the automation...the meter reading and transfer to the camera exposure system, and the autofocus recognition time. Not the electronic shutter, per se. Proof...the shutter lag seen in the first autofocus automagic film SLRs with conventional focal plane shutters!

[carpenter]

as technology evolves and new and better sensors become available you will probably see an increase in MP size for even the low end cameras. It might be fine for making large prints, but could you use more?, sure. Allows you to crop and still retain a large image. or make not just NICE prints at large size, but beautiful prints at poster size.

[BradT0517]

Personally i see it as with in the next 10-15 years they will have 100mp cameras with double the size of FF sensors whole new lens system ultra high speed 100fps 6400 iso well be consider the current 100 and every thing plus there will be terabyte flash drives to go with the pera byte hard drives in computers

[Wilt]

Personally i see it as with in the next 10-15 years they will have 100mp cameras with double the size of FF sensors whole new lens system ultra high speed 100fps 6400 iso well be consider the current 100 and every thing plus there will be terabyte flash drives to go with the pera byte hard drives in computers

You seem to be describing medium format digital (although they are not 100Mpixel and the frame rate is way down from 100fps currently)!

[DocFrankenstein]

I think they're will keep pushing the resolution further because of competition.

[Pete-eos]

Th next step for Canon (450D/40D release time) should be in camera IS and dust removal, althought this would damage sales of the IS lenses, so who knows..

[Tapeman]

At this time the equipment available pretty much meets my requirments for image quality. For me the up side will be lower prices for equal quality. As I get older I guess smaller & lighter equipment will be appreaciated.

[glowie]

how about a built-in 300Gig internal harddrive. lol

[lostdoggy]

Personally i see it as with in the next 10-15 years they will have 100mp cameras with double the size of FF sensors whole new lens system ultra high speed 100fps 6400 iso well be consider the current 100 and every thing plus there will be terabyte flash drives to go with the pera byte hard drives in computers

Doulbe FF size sensors is already available from Hasselblad for $29999 w/ 29MP to boot.

[Tee Why]

It already is the standard. Look at all the entry level dslr's. All have 10MP.

[bidimagic]

In a few years, I expect that the need for a physical shutter will be eliminated. Absence of a shutter will greatly improve the camera life. And we can also think of an absurd 100fps continuous shooting speed to become reality, at least in pro bodies! :evil:What is your take on future of DSLRs? :)

In fact we already have cameras with lot of fps ... they're called videocameras, if I remember well !!! :D
I love the shutter, and the sound it does in my 20D ... I don't want they to remove it ! :)

[bidimagic]

It already is the standard. Look at all the entry level dslr's. All have 10MP.

It is the standard for entry level dslr's ... today!!!
I'm wondering how many megapixels they are going to push in the small
APS-C sensor ...
Today's Nikon D2Xs pro camera pushes 13 mpx in it ... so I could expect
that in consumer camera's in two years!

[Wilt]

In fact we already have cameras with lot of fps ... they're called videocameras, if I remember well !!! :D

OTOH they are not even close to 3500x2500, let alone 10Mixel count!

I love the shutter, and the sound it does in my 20D ... I don't want they to remove it ! :)

"crick"? (I'm Asian, so I can make that crack!)

[bidimagic]

OTOH they are not even close to 3500x2500, let alone 10Mixel count!

yeah I know ... just joking ! :)

"crick"? (I'm Asian, so I can make that crack!)

"crick" sounds good, but also the "tlac"!

[Wilt]

"crick" sounds good, but also the "tlac"!

I'm not being accurate...I should have said "crick-crunk" (the shutter then the mirror return in the dSLR)

[CoolToolGuy]

Gee, it looks that way - Canon just announced the 10MP G7! :)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091405_canon_g7.asp

Have Fun,

[bidimagic]

Gee, it looks that way - Canon just announced the 10MP G7! :)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091405_canon_g7.asp

Have Fun,

"Disappointingly what it doesn't have is a raw mode"
:(

[Wilt]

Gee, it looks that way - Canon just announced the 10MP G7! :)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091405_canon_g7.asp


They give you ISO1600 and IS, then they slow down the lens to f/2.8! DIGIC III to handle noise even better, but then reduce the pixel size by upping the pixel count. They give you a larger LCD but take away the useful ability to pivot it or flip it around. Why am I not impressed?

[dmstraton]

Though I haven't tried it, the consensus seems that in-camera stabilization - even though it works - has one big disadvantage. It doesn't help (cuz you can't see it working) with composition...

[lostdoggy]

and it doesn't work wideangle lens, but then again why would one use it w/ WA lenses.

[BradT0517]

well why couldnt they wait on the XTi since they apperently had the DIGIC III ready why couldnt they put it in there that ticks me off so much

[colinmcnamara]

I think Canon will play the marketing game between 10 and 12 megapixels.
Once I can print 20X30 without a bunch of photoshop pain, then all I care about is lowering noise, in camera IS, and higher burst rates.

--Colin

[fi20100]

well why couldnt they wait on the XTi since they apperently had the DIGIC III ready why couldnt they put it in there that ticks me off so much

What would you have wanted from the DIGIC III in the 400D that the DIGIC II does not provide?