Flash pics comparison

[jimsloy]

I "think" I am in the mkt for a flash. "Think", b/c I would appreciate it if someone would post some everyday indoor pics using the in-camera flash, and the same pic using the 550EX or 420EX. I'm not a professional, and would like to take photos of the new 6mo addition to my family and am trying to determine whether a separate flash purchase should be a part of my 10D collection.

I've read the other posts on the difference between to 550 and 420 and why one would want to use 550 vs 420, and so now I'm just interested in results vs in-cam flash.

Thanks all.

[morenoar]

I am too interested in seeing Picture differences. I took some pictures last night at my daughter soccer team party. Some with the built in flash, and others without. The closeup (with flash) came out good. The long distance (with flash) came out yellowish, but not as bad as the long distance Pics without the flash. Now, I won't be taking that many or much pictures at night for long distance, so nothing EXPENSIVE would be necassary (sorry for my mispelling). so hlep would be appreciated. thanks

[Vegas Poboy]

Just a little info, hot shoe flash is the best way to go no matter what type of shooting you plan on doing. The only time I use the built in flash is when I don't bring my whole set up with me. If you ever need to use a lens with a large opening on it the built in flash will not give you a clean image. Every camera bag should have some type of external flash.
I've been to busy to update my pbase account but hopefully by next weekend I'll have it updated with full data posted.
Poboy

[SheriG]

Has anyone tried using a Vivitar 283 with the D60 set up? I have two from my Canon a-1 cameras and I am going to play with this soon. Pre advice might be helpful. SheriG

[jimsloy]

Anyone, anyone, anyone?

Comparison pics would be great! Thanks.

[robertwgross]

Are you trying to compare flash versus no flash?

Or are you trying to compare a 550EX versus 420EX?

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

jimsloy wrote:

Anyone, anyone, anyone?

Comparison pics would be great! Thanks.



I don't think that you'd see the least bit of difference if I was to show you a 550 shot and then a 420 shot. Assuming that I hadn't exceeded the 420's power range (very unlikely inside) both will give you excellent and identical results if I used them as you've described.

It's the "everything else" that would make me choose one over the other. On one hand the manual settings of the 550; the concept that it's the flash I'll need to start the Wireless TTL; and the greater power; made me lean towards the 550. But on the other hand the 420 is lighter; MUCH, MUCH easier to set up; it's less expensive; and I'll need one anyway to take advantage of that Wireless TTL.

But inside, doing snapshots of the family, they will produce identical results.

[jimsloy]

Actually, my interest is in 420 or 550 vs in-camera flash. Basically, for indoor family shots, or the occasional family wedding shots, party, etc. Should I bother getting a 420 or 550 since I'm not interested in selling photos and just interested in getting descent indoor shots or no? And that's where my comparison pics question lies - in-camera vs (420 or 550).

[robertwgross]

The 10D internal flash has a Guide Number of 13. The 420EX is 42, and the 550EX is 55. Those Guide Numbers are for ISO 100 and meters. Take the Guide Number and divide by the typical aperture number that you shoot indoors with.

For example, let's say aperture of f/5.

That would give the internal flash a range of less than 3 meters. The 420EX would be a little over 8 meters, and the 550EX would be about 11 meters.

Now look at the size of your room from where you shoot to where the subject is.

You can change the example results by changing the ISO to a much higher number, or by opening up the aperture somewhat if the lens allows it.

---Bob Gross---

[kfong]

The built-in flash has 3 disadvantage:
1. power
don't has the figure with me, but I don't think it'll be more than 10 ft. Also it sucks power from your small Li battery. Can't remember the recycle time, but doesn't seem too bad.

2. poistion close to the optical axis of the lens.
More prone to redeye, lighting effect more flat, and if using wide angle lens, the lens and/or the hood may block the flash.

3. unable to do bounce.

and 1 advantage:
Its always there!

Ken

[dtrayers]

If you're interested in indoor flash I highly recommend the 420EX for one reason: bounce. The only significant difference between the on-camera flash and the 420EX is the power. Certainly, red-eye may be an issue, but straight on they will both illuminate the subject within their respective ranges. The 420EX may give better illumination to the backgound depending on how far back it is from the subject.

The real difference is in the direction of the lighting. With a white ceiling your indoor shots will look a lot more natural if you can bounce the flash. Add an Omnibounce and the lighting is quite good.

The 550EX will give more power than the 420EX, and you can control the zoom manually, but for a first flash I recommend the 420EX.

[jkelley]

Based on some limited experience I have with a 550ex that I just purchased, I can't imagine not having it now. The additional power of the external flash vs. the built in flash allows you much more flexibility in the way you shoot indoors (longer distance flash with smaller apperatures and lower iso, if that's what you want or need for a particular situation).

Another thing I like about the external flash is the increased distance from light source to lens center line. This greatly reduces or in many cases can eliminate red eye (especially if you put the flash on a flash bracket).

The best thing for me about the 550ex is the ability to "bounce" the flash, which has, in my view, a dramatic improving effect on the resulting images. The diffused light of the bounced flash gives a much more pleasing picture.

I tend to think of the onboard flash as more suited for fill in daylight picture taking situations, not as the primary light source for low ambient light flash photography.

Just my opinion...

[excessnoise]

Here's a quick sample.
This first one was taken (by a friend) using my 10D with built in flash. Notice the large black semi-circle lower part of pic due to lens hood.
http://prphoto.smugmug.com/photos/1688993-M.jpg


This one was using 550EX flash with reflector. Note: pic is grainy due to ISO1600 was left on by mistake.
http://prphoto.smugmug.com/photos/1688994-M.jpg

Side Note: I have yet to find anything that I like as well as the built in reflector on the 550EX for rendering good, saturated color.

PS. This is my new little grandson, born 11/28/03

[jimsloy]

Congrats!!

Now for another question, the first pic, with in-cam flash is a bit on the orange/yellow side. Having just had a son in June, I realize the type of lighting inside the ol' delivery room. If the 550 was used, would it have made a difference, or would you still see the orange/yellow tint?

[excessnoise]

jimsloy wrote:

Congrats!!

Now for another question, the first pic, with in-cam flash is a bit on the orange/yellow side. Having just had a son in June, I realize the type of lighting inside the ol' delivery room. If the 550 was used, would it have made a difference, or would you still see the orange/yellow tint?



I don't believe so as they are both should be approx. 5500K. Actually, the yellow is due to bad 'Burn' job in Photoshop, trying to tame down a real hot baby ;-)
As Bob stated, the 550 is just so much more powerful and with multi angle bounce so less chance for hot spots like the direct fixed flash and gives more even lighting. Get the 550, you won't regret it

[robertwgross]

The internal flash is *enough* to illuminate the subject. But the yellow color is from another light in the room, so the internal flash was competing for brightness and color balance. If the big 550EX or even the 420EX had been used, it could be forced to go brighter to better overcome the other light and its color.

So, back to the original question... Yes, the internal flash is *sufficient* to take many good indoors flash photos. However, with a bigger flash unit, you can control your light brightness better, you can bounce it, and in general have more control over the light.

When shooting something moderately serious, like a wedding, I would not even dream of trying to do it with anything except for a big flash of some type.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

Another drawback to the internal flash is that with larger lenses, you will get a shadow from that lens in the bottom of the picture. Using a flash mounted on the hot shoe alleviates that problem with all but the largest lenses.

[robertwgross]

I don't know, Tom. I can put my 550EX on the hot shoe of my D60, and that works. But if the lens is my monster Sigma wildlife lens, then even it can get out there in the way. A flash bracket eliminates that problem.

Besides, if I run the batteries down in the flash, I can recharge them using a charger plugged into the generator that is on the trailer for the lens.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

Bob:
Which flash bracket do you use?

Also, does your lens trailer have a chemical toilet and its own generator?

[dtrayers]

belmondo wrote:
Another drawback to the internal flash is that with larger lenses, you will get a shadow from that lens in the bottom of the picture. Using a flash mounted on the hot shoe alleviates that problem with all but the largest lenses.

Interestingly, one advantage (probably the only one, other than price) the 300D has over the 10D is that the internal flash is higher. I can use my 70-200 f/4 at the closest focus distance and there is no shadow.

[nosquare2003]

jimsloy wrote:

Actually, my interest is in 420 or 550 vs in-camera flash. Basically, for indoor family shots, or the occasional family wedding shots, party, etc. Should I bother getting a 420 or 550 since I'm not interested in selling photos and just interested in getting descent indoor shots or no? And that's where my comparison pics question lies - in-camera vs (420 or 550).





If you want a descent indoor shots, get a 420 and do some bounce flash. IMHO, a 420 does a better fill flash in daylight, especially with high flash syn. The only disadvantage of 420 over built-in flash is inconvenience.

[robertwgross]

belmondo wrote:
Bob:
Which flash bracket do you use?


Stratos.

belmondo wrote:
Also, does your lens trailer have a chemical toilet and its own generator?

Silly! The trailer has a regular flush job. The sign on the door flips three ways: "Ladies", "Gents", and "Nikon Users".

---Bob Gross---

[jimsloy]

OK..thanks all for the advice. I think since I don't do such serious indoor photos, I will go w/ the 420 and be done with it. If, after a while, I realize the benefits of the 550, then I'm sure one of you would love to buy a used 420?!

Hey Bob, do those Nikon users flush?!

Thanks everyone,
Jim

[Belmondo]

jimsloy wrote:Hey Bob, do those Nikon users flush?!



I'll bet those cretins leave the seat up, too.

[justme_dc]

SheriG wrote:
Has anyone tried using a Vivitar 283 with the D60 set up? I have two from my Canon a-1 cameras and I am going to play with this soon. Pre advice might be helpful. SheriG

Really bad idea without a safesync. The D30/D60/10D/300D all have a maximum sync voltage of 6volts. The Vivitars, depending on year of manufactuer will have a sync voltage in the neighborhood of 110-170volts. That's a fairly big difference. It might not kill your shutter on the first click but do it enough times and you'll burn the shutter sync and destroy the shutter. Shutter replacement runs around $350.USD. Just for the sake of safety, you should always test the sync/trigger voltage of any strobe you plan to connect to your camera.