580EX Master off

[Mayfly]

Sorry I know this has been asked before just recently but I don't know what the outcome was.
I currently use four 580EX's because of the portability and I really hate to waste a lot of time setting up strobes on location. Anyway there are many times when I need to turn the Master unit off but no matter what I do it still fires. I know it is supposed to fire a preflash, but I did a test yesterday where I purposely fired it into a relflector to see if it would affect the subject and sure enough it did. All of this was being tested with the master in manual mode, however when placed in ETTL mode it seems to work ok...........either that or the TTL is so good that it compensates for it. I can't tell at this point.
I guess my question is can you only turn the master off in ETTL mode because I use it mostly in manual. I have read the manual backwards and forwards to make sure I am doing everything correctly and I am at a loss now.
Any advice?
I have really considered getting the ST-E2 just so I don't have to worry about it, not to mention I can put another flash unit to work off camera. The only thing is I have heard horror stories about those units, so I am kind of hesitant.

[PacAce]

The master will fire a low-power command flash (separate from the exposure preflash) to tell the slaves when to fire. However, I'm pretty sure it does that, too, even in ETTL mode so I'm not sure why you're not detecting it in ETTL mode but are in manual mode.

The low-power command flash usually isn't a problem if you are working with normal lighting levels so I'm guessing you are shooting some very low lighting stuff.

[Mayfly]

Well I am seeing the preflash both in Manual and in Ettl however it only seems to effect the subject in manual mode. I did a test actually in daylight outside. The setup was a 580ex bounced into an umbrella to the right of the subject with a 36" reflector on the subjects right.
WHen I purposely bounced the on camera flash into the reflector it made a dramatic difference thus telling me that the master is not shutting off. When I did the same test in ETTL mode the difference in lighting on the subject was acceptable telling me that either the master does in fact turn off in ETTL mode or that the ttl is compensating for that.
It sounds a little confusing I know but it is really getting frustrating trying to deal with this.

[PacAce]

Now I'm really confused. Perhaps you shoudl describe your set up (how many flashes are you using) and how the master and slave flashes are set up. Are you using an off-shoe cord for the master? If not, how are you bouncing it off a umbrella?

[Mayfly]

for this particular shot I was only using 2 flashes. One was on a stand bounced into an umbrella (slave)
The other was on camera (master) and was bounced into a reflector which was very close to me and the subject so no cord was needed..............hope that helps

[PacAce]

for this particular shot I was only using 2 flashes. One was on a stand bounced into an umbrella (slave)
The other was on camera (master) and was bounced into a reflector which was very close to me and the subject so no cord was needed..............hope that helps

And you had the master set so it that wouldn't fire, so that only the slave would be providing the subject lighting?

[Mayfly]

Yup that's right

[PacAce]

What settings are you using on your camera? I'm want to see if I can recreate your problem.

[Mayfly]

Honestly I have since deleted the files and can't recall the settings I used exactly but I did do another test tonight inside.
Tonights setup was 2 slaves and an on camera master. The 2 slaves were each bounced into umbrellas on stands.
My camera settings were;
ISO: 250
shutter speed: 1/200
Aperature: 4.0

I basically just point the master flash head in a direction that will least interfere with the subject, but sometimes it still does.
I shot everything tonight in Manual because ETTL just doesn't give me enough control naturally.

[PacAce]

Try decreasing your aperture to f/5.6 or smaller and/or bump down your ISO.

[Mayfly]

I took many shots at 5.6
The exposures are fine I am just trying to get the master flash to turn off. I think I will just deal with it at this point and try and not let it effect the subject...................no biggie

[AlexMa]

Try.........

In camera settings


C.Fn-07 (1) does not fire

I believe that the hotshoe flash will not fire and can be used as the master flash to trigger the slave flash.

U probably still want the master flast to emit the AF-assist beam

C.Fn-05 (2) Only ext. flash emits

Alex

Let me know if this works

[René Damkot]

That should not work, since it has nothing to do with a master/slave configuration. If anything, with CFn 7-1 I'd guess both master and slave won't fire....
The internal flash can not act as master. That's a Nikon feature ;)
If you set 'master flash off' it should not contribute any *meaningfull* lighting to the scene. (There was a post a while back that it will emit a flash visible when you are flashing into a mirror or so)

[ukhamsterclub]

Mayfly, I am glad you asked that question because that was exactly the question I had come one here to ask this morning. I have a conference I am photographing this week and was practicing last night and try as I might I could not get the master to not flash and then panicked when messing around with the flashes stopped bot of them firing! I was using a 580 as a master and a 550 as a slave.

[PacAce]

I took many shots at 5.6
The exposures are fine I am just trying to get the master flash to turn off. I think I will just deal with it at this point and try and not let it effect the subject...................no biggie

The only reason I suggested f/5.6 is because you will see less of the effects of the master slave's command flash at that setting than at f/4. And that's what I thought you were complaining about (i.e. the command flash lighting up your subject and affecting your overall lighting). There really isn't anything you can do about turning off the command flash because then, you're not going to be able to do wireless remote with the other flashes. The other solution is to use a radio remote set like PWs.

BTW, with my flash, the command flash shows up with it in ETTL mode and Manual mode but really isn't noticeable in the picture unless the lighting is very low. If you are saying that the command flash shows in your shot in manual but not in ETTL mode, maybe there's something wrong with your flash and needs to be looked at. Have you tried using the other flashes as masters to see if they all do the same thing?

[Mayfly]

I've thought of going the Pocket Wizard route but I just can't seem to pull the trigger.........no pun intended. I like the option of controlling the output of the slaves via the master. I guess I will just have to find a work around for the time being. The ST-E2 was an option that I considered but I am hearing to many negative stories about those as well.
This will just be something I will deal with because I love the portability of the 580's and they have way more power than folks give them credit for. I use all four sometimes (1 master and 3 slaves) and really get a lot of juice from them. It beats carrying around lighting kits and power packs all the time, however for what I paid for four 580's you could have yourself a nice little studio, but there is a tradeoff naturally.

[PacAce]

Excuse me for asking but how critically do you have your lighting ratios set up that the command flash from the master is messing it all up. I find it especially hard to believe that it could be messing up your lighting in broad daylight as you indicated in one of your posts. And with the flash bounced off the umbrella yet where the intensity of the command flash would be reduced even more. I mean we're talking very low power here. :confused:

[Mayfly]

This is just not happening in a daylight setting. I also shoot a lot indoors and what I am trying to say is that I don't think it is the command flash because it is too powerful. Like I said if I purposely direct it at the subject it has an effect which tells me that the master is not turning off. Regardless of how it affects the subject the point still remains that it is not powering off like it is supposed to

[PacAce]

This is just not happening in a daylight setting. I also shoot a lot indoors and what I am trying to say is that I don't think it is the command flash because it is too powerful. Like I said if I purposely direct it at the subject it has an effect which tells me that the master is not turning off. Regardless of how it affects the subject the point still remains that it is not powering off like it is supposed to

Then maybe the master flash really isn't turned off. It it's turned off, the lightning symbol to the left of the flash icon in the flash LCD will blink and the flash rays coming out from the head of the flash icon won't be visible. The rays are only visible when the master is turned ON.

[René Damkot]

A quick way to test if the master flash is turned off: Set up the flashes as you'ld normally do. On the master, press the modeling light (DoF preview button, or 'test' button, depending on CFn setting on the 580EX).
If the Master Flash is on, both flashes will emit a modeling burst. If the Master is 'off', it will only fire a command flash, while the slave will emit a modeling light.

[Mayfly]

A quick way to test if the master flash is turned off: Set up the flashes as you'ld normally do. On the master, press the modeling light (DoF preview button, or 'test' button, depending on CFn setting on the 580EX).
If the Master Flash is on, both flashes will emit a modeling burst. If the Master is 'off', it will only fire a command flash, while the slave will emit a modeling light.


I'll give that a shot, thanks