Possible changes to forum. What do you think?

[Belmondo]

From the thread titled, 'Is it getting cluttered in here?'

pekka wrote:
To split the board is always very problematic because basically what we talk about here is EOS, and that means 95% of stuff and things to learn are common for all camera models.

If the split would go like

EOS-300D
EOS-10D
EOS-1D(s)
EOS lenses

Then most 1-series users would not read 300D stuff where the could contribute a lot and 300D users would post in 1-series boards anyway if they do not get feedback in 300D area.

To be logical, the split should be done by considering what EOS really means:

EOS camera bodies
EOS lenses
EOS accessories

But then again people would like to see their own model mentioned - it feels so much cosier :) And the new 300D lenses are not EOS lenses.

I am in near future changing the forum software to something more modern (while keeping the look as much as possible of course) and faster (the forum database is already 75MB). That would be a good moment to do changes in forum structure, too, so any suggestions (backed up by rock solid reasoning) are most welcome.

PS. There will also be a database-based FAQ for all cameras.

Pekka:
I think the FAQs will do a lot towards alleviating what some refer to as ‘clutter.’ This way, when someone asks a question that’s been covered time and time again, we’ll have a quick reference to point them to, and unless they expand on their question, should eliminate a lot of discussion.

I’ll have to think about the other changes for a minute, though.

Tick. Tock. (time passes……)

Okay, I’ve though about it. I suppose the new divisions you propose make sense, although I am one of those who have no complaints about the way things are now. There will be a lot of overlap, and that will result in more time searching three different forums (fora? for those whose interest covers the entire gamut.

Like anything else, we’ll adjust to whatever you do. This is a great place to learn, and to rub elbows with other kindred spirits.

Thanks for providing this great service.

Tom

[Scottes]

I like it the way it is. The number of posts per day is fine, IMHO, so I see no reason to split them up. There's enough crossover in EOS-land that lumping 10D+300D with the occasional 1Dx is fine. Same goes for lenses and accessories.

Many posts are pertinent across the board - that is, a generic flash question will usually have info pertinent to 420, 550, or on-board. The same post may have info about FEC pertinent to 10D and 1D and make the 300D owners aware of what they're missing. :-)

Basically I guess that I don't think there's too much to read, so why split it up?

[jim monroe]

I look at this forum basically everyday and contribute when I can, not often as I am as they say a newbie.
I like the idea of the proposed split

"the split would go like

EOS-300D
EOS-10D
EOS-1D(s)
EOS lenses "

Like most I don't have enough time for everything and if I can go to an area concentrating on the 10D, which is what I own, it will be that much better for me. Also agree with the "more cosier" aspect mentioned in original post.
Ofcourse a certain amount of self-policing (for lack of a better word) is good regarding all categories. I noted yesterday an individual posting a photo for critique saying there was more activity in this section than in the critique section so they were posting here. I was glad to see that several members stated this was fairly inappropriate and stick with the critique section even if not as active.
Like Tom above I have no strong problems with present situation and like him wish to thank you for providing such a benefical site.

[Longwatcher]

Putting my opinion forward,

If you feel the need to split, I would just split by function (bodies, lenses, accessories) rather then by body types. The body types will probably be changing every 2 years for awhile, but the questions will probably remain similiar.

If the bodies are split, the problem becomes that most of the newbies will be asking questions on the 1Ds forum since they will understand that is where they will get the best answers to their questions that are not specifically body related and I think the majority of questions usually have nothing to do with the camera bodies. I have seen this kind of split on other forums and it adds a bit of elitism, which I have rarely seen in this forum (which is my favorite by the way).

I know that if you split by bodies, Since I have a D60/10D, I will probably ignore the 300D forum (except for the rare curoisity check), but since I lust after one, would be checking the 1D/1Ds forum. With the function split, I would check all three.

Just me though and just my opinion,

[Tom W]

I have to agree with Tom - an FAQ would go a long way toward helping the newbies (of which I often am) and would give good reference points for linking the "question asker" with the answer without plunging into a long thread. The problem of separating things too much is that a lot of the information shared here applies to all EOS-type cameras (often including film, though I'd never think of asking a question about Kodak - vs. - Fuji). As such, a D-Reb owner would benefit from the same information that a 10D or 1Ds owner might. As well, any SLR owner can often add to the discussion. They're all capable cameras that share a common lens platform.

I really don't see separating lenses from cameras either, though that would make more sense IMHO. There's a broad spectrum of Canon owners here, and for the most part, I see a pretty high degree of harmony.

I suppose that there could be an "invitational" section for the pros where posting privledges are limited to those "club" members, though many might object to a two-tiered system. Then again, it would serve a purpose in allowing folks to discuss things among their professional peers on occasion. I'd not necessarily call it a "higher" level of discussion, but a "different" level.

[ssim]

I'm going to add my 2 cents worth here.

I really don't find anything functionally wrong with the board is organized here. There is a certain amount of commonality between the camera bodies, 10D/300D. As a 10D owner I don't mind reading questions/comments about the 300D (ok, the petition things got under my skin).

I've learnt to work my way through what some may classify as clutter. I seem to feel that I have a fairly decent memory so I just don't go back to those subject lines.

If the general trend is to move towards splitting the board more I would tend to agree with Longwatcher and go with bodies, lenses and accessories. But what's next, can we have a category for just "L" lenses.

[dnadalin]

My vote would be to leave the forums as they are.

But if you must split it then go with bodies, lenses and accessories.
Most of the recent "noise" has been "what lens should I get", so having a separate lens forum may help with that.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I think any split is of no real service to the forum. More specifically,. breaking things up by model number will mean that folks that enjoy trying to help others out will be answering the same question now in four or five different forums... it is hard enough to keep track in one.

The Idea of breaking up Bodies/lenses/... etc is a much more agreeable Idea to me,. but the trouble is that we can anylyze this forum and try to impose as much order on it as we want.. in the end we can not force individuals who come in here to ask advice to post there lens questions in the lens forum.. etc.

I really think the EOS forum should stand.

[samdring]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I really think the EOS forum should stand.
agreed

[jcsorensen]

My vote, not that it counts for much is--add the FAQ section and leave everything else as is--the technology is just changing too fast to keep changing the forum.

[geoff@rio]

It ain't broke so why try to fix it.

[neil_r]

Madness to make it model specific, I have a D60 and a 1Ds. I would say that I don’t fancy checking out two areas but most of the posts here advocating the split seem not to have heard of the D30 or D60???? So perhaps I would only have to check out one, no hang on a minuet, keep reading loads of interesting stuff about 10D and latterly 300D so would I miss out on that, and even worse If I only posted in one would you all miss out on my occasional pearls of wisdom (ok perhaps not).

Cant help but to agree with geoff@rio.... If it ain’t broke why fix it.

neil

[Phil Hall]

I like it the way it is. Having info on other models helps to decide on buying..or not.

[imago57]

I think that a well organized FAQ will fix any perceived problem in this forum. I love the way this forum is organized right now.
Just my opinion.

[bluebomberx]

I also like the idea of the FAQ, but I percieve no reason to separate the forums that much. I think possibly the EOS 1x bodies and their successors should be discussed in its own forum, while the EOS D30/60/10D/DR and future counterparts should be discussed in its own area as well. There is no reason to separate cameras from leness as it will only create a problem with cross-posting and create more work to clean up.

If anything, I'd think all of the G series P&S cameras should be consolidated into one forum.

[martcol]

I don't think the forum needs changing. I like it the way it is and it has been the single most useful learning source in my short photographic life!

I don't mind the repeat questions and am not sure that a FAQ would prevent that anyway. I remember my early posts like "what is a lens?" and "Which way do I point this damn thing?" I also remember the agony of dust spots and comments helping me understand the meaning of life! Now I'm rambling...

The EOS tag or DSLR is fine and I think that is the common link here rather than kit (Heck, I even think I've seen a few Nikon users lurking around). I've learned about flash, dust spots, lenses, dust spots, function buttons, tripods, dust spots.... The list is endless.

Bring it on!

Martin

[HeatherJL]

Split schmidt... allow me to give you a parallel. http://geoparent.com/graphics/emoticons/soapbox2.gif

I used to belong to a miscarriage message board for women trying to get pregnant again. I became one of the residents experts on the topic and would REPEATEDLY answer the same questions. At some point it began getting on my nerves, so I complied a very extensive FAQ about miscarriage, pregnancy, etc. Well, it didn't help much, people still wanted a direct answer to their question... even if was exactly the same in the FAQ's.

Ok, so I continue to repeat my answers, with grace, as most people are sincerely looking for help. I made several very close friends in the years that I spent on that board.

Eventually I got pregnant again and passed the torch.

So a few months later I hear that they are splitting the boards. Why? Because the women who had stillborns didn't want to associate with the women who had early term miscarriages. So instead of one miscarriage board, there was one for first trimester, second trimester and third trimester loss. http://geoparent.com/graphics/emoticons/rolleyes2.gif

Well, the membership declined and the whole point was lost. We were there to support each other, no matter what our circumstance. We all had a loss and wanted to conceive again... and needed friends to commiserate with.

As I mentioned earlier, I made several friends on that board, one who has become my best friend. As it turns out, her lost was second trimester and mine was first... had the boards been split earlier, we never would've met.

If you're tired of repeating yourself, then maybe it's time for you (I'm speaking collectively, not of one person) to move on. This board may be getting crowded, but I would bet that all are better served if it remains one forum.

Just my http://geoparent.com/graphics/emoticons/twocents.gif

[maderito]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I really think the EOS forum should stand.

Absolutely agreed. This is one of the best forums around. What goes into a good forum is probably hard to define precisely - but central to this forum is a wonderfu community with individuals who are knowledable, quirky, irreverant, naughty, nice, etc. You can't split that across several boards and get a better outcome.

My criteria for considering a split would be when the total daily posts exceed one page. Currently it appears that the forum is scripted to give 50 topics/respones per page. I doubt that the forum exceeds that on any day -- certainly not on an average day. Thus, it is easy (and fun) to puruse the latest daily offerings from the forum community.

[DNHayashida]

maderito wrote:
CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I really think the EOS forum should stand.

Absolutely agreed. This is one of the best forums around. What goes into a good forum is probably hard to define precisely - but central to this forum is a wonderfu community with individuals who are knowledable, quirky, irreverant, naughty, nice, etc. You can't split that across several boards and get a better outcome.

My criteria for considering a split would be when the total daily posts exceed one page. Currently it appears that the forum is scripted to give 50 topics/respones per page. I doubt that the forum exceeds that on any day -- certainly not on an average day. Thus, it is easy (and fun) to puruse the latest daily offerings from the forum community.

Ditto from me. Scrolling down I can still see posts from two days ago. Doesn't seem cluttered at all. Leave it as it is.
Darryl Hayashida

[Sketcher]

belmondo wrote:

I think the FAQs will do a lot towards alleviating what some refer to as ‘clutter.’ .

CyberDyneSystems wrote:

I really think the EOS forum should stand.

I second the above mentioned. If I were to submit a request it would be to add a forum for Printing/Processing and or to include accessories such X-Drives, Digital Wallets, tripods, bags etc.

Sketch

[iwatkins]

I think the EOS forum should stand but with the addition of an easy to reference FAQ. That would be enough for me.

Oh, and a forum just for Belmondo/Tom. We promise we will drop in and feed him from time to time.

OK, I jest about the last bit. :D

Cheers

Ian

[Belmondo]

iwatkins wrote:Oh, and a forum just for Belmondo/Tom. We promise we will drop in and feed him from time to time.


No need to quarantine me. What I've got, you can't catch. I'll just try to be less conspicuous.

Tom

[billfranklin]

For my vote, leave it as is. I have a D60, but enjoy reading about the other cameras. I will upgrade someday, but for now, just want to keep current. A FAQ board would be fine, but not necessarily needed.

Bill F.

[pradeep1]

I say leave it like it is and add the databased FAQ. Whenever a new user signs up, they should receive in an introductory email with links to all the FAQs. Also, before posting, especially for newbies (someone who has say maybe less than 5 originating posts) you should point them to the search page and then give them a warning to search first then post. If they bypass the search page, you should bring up the FAQ listing and ask them to look there second. Then after they have gone through this gauntlet, they will either leave and not post, or actually post something new and original.

Whatever you do, don't go to moderated forums. The clutter actually sometimes is interesting. I also browse all the other boards on this forums and answer questions here and there and enjoy the origanization structure as it is. It's different and sometimes fun to have people who are nutty about a particular camera concentrated in one area. It tends to make them friends and competitors. I've made good connections and have admirable companions in my neck of the Canon digital world - the G3s.

My thoughts....

[CyberDyneSystems]

A lot of very good points beimg made above regarding reasons NOT to split up the forum.

I am particularly moved by the story of the support group forum :(

I think Merlin said it best in TH White's "The Once and Future King"

//paraphrased as best I can from memory...


"... I can not abide these nationalists! ... the destiny of mankind is to unite,. not to divide. If we keep on dividing,. we end up as a bunch of monkeys, sitting each in our own individual tree throwing nuts at eachother... "

[Tom W]

Sketcher wrote:

I second the above mentioned. If I were to submit a request it would be to add a forum for Printing/Processing and or to include accessories such X-Drives, Digital Wallets, tripods, bags etc.

Sketch

A printing/processing forum might not be a bad idea. There's got to be quite a bit of interest in that area.

[Tom W]

pradeep1 wrote:
I say leave it like it is and add the databased FAQ. Whenever a new user signs up, they should receive in an introductory email with links to all the FAQs. Also, before posting, especially for newbies (someone who has say maybe less than 5 originating posts) you should point them to the search page and then give them a warning to search first then post. If they bypass the search page, you should bring up the FAQ listing and ask them to look there second. Then after they have gone through this gauntlet, they will either leave and not post, or actually post something new and original.

Whatever you do, don't go to moderated forums. The clutter actually sometimes is interesting. I also browse all the other boards on this forums and answer questions here and there and enjoy the origanization structure as it is. It's different and sometimes fun to have people who are nutty about a particular camera concentrated in one area. It tends to make them friends and competitors. I've made good connections and have admirable companions in my neck of the Canon digital world - the G3s.

My thoughts....

Introducing the FAQ to new users is a good idea as well. I'd be cautious about being too strict in "pushing" the FAQ and the search options to new users. Some people simply aren't all that internet-savvy. Gentle suggestions and modest steering are the best way to guide someone to the resources (and that's probably what you're thinking as well).

BTW, the site does have some modest moderation. Its used very sparingly and judiciously though - almost invisible, but quite right in its application.

[Man-Fai Wong]

CyberDyneSystems wrote:
A lot of very good points beimg made above regarding reasons NOT to split up the forum.

I'm not exactly a newbie to the site, but I've only been in the G3 section like pradeep (and also at DPR mostly) and am just now looking into taking the DSLR dive, so my vote may not count for anything here. Still, I've spend ~15 years participating on-and-off in various web-based forums and usenet newsgroups, so I'm certainly not w/out a little forum experience. :D

Anyway, I agree w/ most of the sentiment about not splitting (at least until there's serious volume where you have today's posts spread to the 2nd page on a regular basis). I think a good FAQ is in order, and I certainly would read it and also refer others to it although I do know that some newbies will by-pass it. Since Pekka is looking into new software, I suggest making the FAQ a sticky post at the very top of the page. That will help a lot of newbies to remember to check it (before posting yet another question), and also make it easier for veterans to point newbies to it.

If and when the volume does become unbearable, then I would suggest a split to something more like amateur vs pro sections, if that would work for people. This was suggested in one of the earlier replies, IIRC. Also, for such a split, you might place some restriction on who can/cannot start a new thread in the pro section, but allow everyone to read it (and maybe post a follow-up/related question w/in the thread). That would allow amateurs to look in and learn from the pros w/out "cluttering" the section too much. But again, I'd suggest that only when volume becomes unbearable.


I am particularly moved by the story of the support group forum :(

Yes, as am I. It is hard to compare a hobby forum to a serious support forum like that one, but I think the comraderie that can be found here is a good thing.

As such, I do feel that the amateur vs pro split would be ok since they are really 2 different "animals". And any pro should feel free to mingle w/ amateurs in the amateur section since even a pro can enjoy amateur photography at times me thinks. As a "pro" software developer, I certainly have no problems w/ mingling w/ "non-pros" in the craft. :D And to me, that makes more sense than doing it by models or even by equipment type, ie. body, lens, etc.

But again, split only makes sense when forum traffic becomes unbearable.


I think Merlin said it best in TH White's "The Once and Future King"

//paraphrased as best I can from memory...


"... I can not abide these nationalists! ... the destiny of mankind is to unite,. not to divide. If we keep on dividing,. we end up as a bunch of monkeys, sitting each in our own individual tree throwing nuts at eachother... "

Awesome paraphrase! :D

_Man_

[chris.bailey]

dnhayashida wrote:
maderito wrote:
CyberDyneSystems wrote:
I really think the EOS forum should stand.

Absolutely agreed. This is one of the best forums around. What goes into a good forum is probably hard to define precisely - but central to this forum is a wonderfu community with individuals who are knowledable, quirky, irreverant, naughty, nice, etc. You can't split that across several boards and get a better outcome.

My criteria for considering a split would be when the total daily posts exceed one page. Currently it appears that the forum is scripted to give 50 topics/respones per page. I doubt that the forum exceeds that on any day -- certainly not on an average day. Thus, it is easy (and fun) to puruse the latest daily offerings from the forum community.

Ditto from me. Scrolling down I can still see posts from two days ago. Doesn't seem cluttered at all. Leave it as it is.
Darryl Hayashida

I would add my vote to leaving it as it is.

[nosquare2003]

My vote: Leave as it is. It's not time to split the forum as there're not too many threads per day.

[xxlt]

Hello :) Everyone....just working on my 1st cup of coffee this morning while reading this very interesting thread. Before I visited the forum I was reading this press release. "Japan's Canon said on Thursday that it plans to roll-out nearly 20 new compact digital cameras next year." http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techinvestor/techcorporatenews/2003-12-18-canon-digicams_x.htm

My wish would be that the Canon EOS-D(igital) camera forum stay lumped together. This lets me stay well informed of all the models and helps me to make intelligent choices regarding the different features and techniques used to take great photo's.
As a former G3 owner...I think I would have benefited more if the "G's" were together....*LOL* This is my favorite camera site and I look forward to enjoying y'all down through the months and years.

bill from Ohio w/Canon EOS-D

[billhercus]

I have learned so much from the experienced members of this forum it is just not true. Also cost me a fortune........ I would hesitate to change much but would concentrate on highlighting the search facility, making it as user friendly as poss (if you can make it more so) and thus reduce the repeat questions of which, hand on heart, I have been guilty too.

Overall, congrats on one of the finest and most interesting forums on the net today!!

[ilya]

I'd leave this forum as is.

Lump G's into one.

Definitely room for an Editing and Printing forum - I would simply rename the Software forum.

(and Heather, thank you for that post and for putting things into perspective.)

[Andy_T]

Not really necessary for me to also throw in my 2 cents, but here we go:

- Do not split the EOS D Forum by camera type
A lot of good explanations for that were given. CDS' quote sums it up best, I'd say.

- Do not split the EOS D Forum by function
The way it currently is, I was made aware of interesting developments in areas I did not consider interesting before (e.g. various 'accessories'). I often see an interesting thread title, read into it and find a lot of useful information there I would not have bothered looking up, had it been in a different forum. There are NOT too many threads every day.

- Lump the 'G' forums into one
They aren't really different apart from minor issues like MP and zoom range. However, the same questions are asked simultaneously on all three (or 4 in the meantime?) forums...

Regards,
Andy

[UK_Terry]

ilya wrote:
I'd leave this forum as is.

Lump G's into one.

Definitely room for an Editing and Printing forum - I would simply rename the Software forum.

(and Heather, thank you for that post and for putting things into perspective.)


agreed G's into 1 (as with the EOS-D) and a FAQ
leave the rest as it is...very good.

[DNHayashida]

UK_Terry wrote:
ilya wrote:
I'd leave this forum as is.

Lump G's into one.

Definitely room for an Editing and Printing forum - I would simply rename the Software forum.

(and Heather, thank you for that post and for putting things into perspective.)


agreed G's into 1 (as with the EOS-D) and a FAQ
leave the rest as it is...very good.

I agree about lumping the Gx forums together. I just looked at them, and the G2 forum goes back a month on the first page. The G1 goes back to August on the first page. Now that there is a G5 out they mostly go into the G3 forum. Putting the G's together would be better. A poster could specify the model if it mattered - "Question about G1" for example.
Darryl Hayashida

[Man-Fai Wong]

I didn't feel comfortable saying that earlier, but since more are feeling that way, I agree that the G's should lump together for same reasons that the EOS/DSLRs should stay together.

I say this as one who is more likely to continue to frequent both G-series and EOS-D forums since I'm in transition and do enjoy helping out w/ questions when I can as well as picking up little tips from the G-series forums as I notice them. And I do enjoy mingling w/ other G-series owners -- and will continue to do so if/when I upgrade to a DSLR system. And I might very well keep my G3 as something more portable anyway.

_Man_

[sdommin]

All your comments are good and valid, however, it seems they're all for nothing as Pekka seems to have abandoned this whole site (at least as far as making changes goes).

The G5 has been out for how long? 6 months? Its not even acknowledged with its own forum - or even a simple name change to the "G3/G5 Forum".

[ilya]

sdommin wrote:
All your comments are good and valid, however, it seems they're all for nothing as Pekka seems to have abandoned this whole site (at least as far as making changes goes).

The G5 has been out for how long? 6 months? Its not even acknowledged with its own forum - or even a simple name change to the "G3/G5 Forum".

See this thread, Pekka has been great. Someone else mentioned that his forum management is subtle but effective, I can attest to that, I sent him an email about the spammer, and he acted immediately.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21790

[ima_putz]

Scott:
This whole thread was initiated because Pekka posted a message in another thread saying he intended to make some changes, and what he was thinking about doing.

I think your comment about Pekka abandoning the site is a bit premature.

IP

[defordphoto]

ima_putz wrote:
I think your comment about Pekka abandoning the site is a bit premature.


It's totally invalid. He has stated no such thing. Pekka is a hands-off Admin and he lets the board pretty much handle itself. He is always watching and is very behind the scenes. I really enjoy his handling of this site.

[Belmondo]

RFMSports wrote:
ima_putz wrote:
I think your comment about Pekka abandoning the site is a bit premature.


It's totally invalid. He has stated no such thing. Pekka is a hands-off Admin and he lets the board pretty much handle itself. He is always watching and is very behind the scenes. I really enjoy his handling of this site.

Okay, Jim ima_putz was proabably just trying to be tactful.

Tom

[kellylipp]

My vote: keep it like it is. The diversity of the questions make it interesting. Dividing it makes it to hard to keep track of. The only reason to change is if there is something wrong with the forum in the first place: there isn't anything wrong with this forum.

No Spam.

Very little fighting (and what there is is good).

Some redundant questions, but a simple "look at the history" should suffice to teach people the etiquette we expect here.

Bottom Line: this is good. We run the risk of making it bad by fooling with it.

My wife and I belong to other technical forums and this one is no different in style and form. The others we belong to suffer the same things, but the studs understand and newbies are newbies.

Let it be...

Kelly

[cowman345]

I don't want to browse 4 different forums for casual info gathering. I like it the way it is, but addition of a FAQ would be beneficial.

If you MUST split, i vote for the EOS-Bodies, Lenses, Accessories split.

-dave-

[barnold999]

cowman345 wrote:
If you MUST split, i vote for the EOS-Bodies, Lenses, Accessories split.


I condole. That would be the best splt...

FAQ would be helpful as a "sticky" (as some message board systems call it) with the title "FAQ - Read First!"

That will help answer a lot of the very basic questions that others ask.

[Pekka]

This is good discussion. Thanks to all! Some thoughts:

1) Yes, I have been quiet in the forums and not doing any changes - this is because I have learned that when things run ok then let them run. I have not personally participated in photo discussions much because I have been very busy in doing EE, and that means less photography stuff this year. I also have noticed that people talk more freely when I'm not there. :)

I did not do G5 board because there were opinions even between G5 owners that it is ok to talk about it in G3 board as G5 is not so significantly different.

This forum has always been moderated, but I use that power only to move topics to correct boards, delete threads that are extremely rude, delete obvious commercial advertisement and when I see extremely rude behaviour (very rarely) or intentional spamming. I also have edited messages when quote codes have been haywire. No one has been banned from this forum: a big thanks to all of you.

2) About the split: My suggestions were _suggestions_, not decisions. I agree with the general feedback that as little changes as possible should be made. That is why I am not going to split this board.

Forum is much better with as few different boards as possible.

G-series board structure IS a problem. I think they would need combining as some of you mentioned. But it also occurs to me that are they really so different any more from other compact models, especially as Canon will announce about 20 new ones soon? Perhaps one big "Canon compact digital cameras" board would be the most logical choice. That would include Pro90, too (all fixed lens cameras). Viewing the message counters would support this idea --- then we would have two big and busy boards.

What I also would like to do is to mix "Share Photos" and "Critique Corner" because the distinction is still not clear to all. Sharing always means being open to comments, too.

'Exhibit Engine discussion' will be separated totally from this forum. Also, 'Forum Features' board will be gone (a separate feedback form as substitute). Software would merge with new "Post processing and printing" board.

After these changes we will have much clearer forum structure.

Canon compact digital cameras
Canon EOS digital cameras
Post processing and printing
Share photos
Talk about photography
Galleries
Marketplace
The word is free

Would this sound ok to you?

I will most likely change this software to PHBB (educated suggestions are welcome), but later I will surely code my own forum app for which I have some nice ideas already.

[Belmondo]

Pekka:
This makes good sense, although I think you'll ultimately get some grief from the G-series owners. I think there's a general perception by those folks that their camera is sufficiently in a league of its own to warrant a separate board. Of course, you are correct that it's a fixed lens camera, and therefore technologically more closely related to the A-series, S-series, etc., but the G-1, 2, 3, &5 owners will be much more receptive to being lumped together, but apart from the other digital compacts. See how they react.

Without some idea of where the Canon line is going in the next year or two, it is nearly impossible to say if the division you're proposing is going to hold up or not, but certainly for the foreseeable future, it seems appropriate.

I see you didn't mention the FAQ's in your last post. Are you still thinking about doing something with them? There seems to be near-concensus that having them availabe would be a good thing towards alleviating what some refer to as 'clutter.'

I'm not sure I understand the need for 'The Word is Free.' In fact I don't go there at all any more. My delicate conservative sensibilities were terribly offended by one of my favorite contributors to this forum, and I'm still pouting about it months later. (Sound like a personal problem?) Since it doesn't have anything to do with photography, I just don't go there any more. I don't feel that I'm missing anything, and I don't get mad at anyone. (as if it would really matter to them!).

Good suggestions. Great forum. Thanks.

Tom

[Man-Fai Wong]

Regarding lumping all the Canon compacts together, if you do it, I would suggest setting up a very good FAQ that's geared towards teaching and relating the basics of photography to newbies, not just answer a few specific questions in short form w/out touching on the basics. And of course, need to make the FAQ easy and prominent for newbies to access and understand.

Otherwise, a newbie XYZ owner (or potential owner) will not realize his/her question has actually been addressed already, but just in slightly different way or in differently worded form.

Personally, I have no idea whether combining them all together will work or not even though I'm a G3 owner. It may be perfectly fine at first since traffic has been relatively slow, but be prepared to split them back up (btw G-series/Pro90 and the rest) again if traffic should multiply quickly -- I can see a number of things that might make that happen in the coming months, eg. more and more DPR users are becoming aware of this site, 20(!) new Canon compacts coming + the expected Canon sales growth, etc.

_Man_

[defordphoto]

Pekka: I agree with you. If you split up the forums into too many factions then the site will suffer. The only suggestion I would be make would be to add a Professional area: The Pro Corner or something like that. I think your Pros that come here might no feel at ease posting in the EOS area where we're all flitting back and forth and having fun. Otherwise, I love your keep it simple approach.

[defordphoto]

belmondo wrote:
RFMSports wrote:
ima_putz wrote:
I think your comment about Pekka abandoning the site is a bit premature.


It's totally invalid. He has stated no such thing. Pekka is a hands-off Admin and he lets the board pretty much handle itself. He is always watching and is very behind the scenes. I really enjoy his handling of this site.

Okay, Jim ima_putz was proabably just trying to be tactful.

Tom

I was (also) referring to Scott's comment. Ima_putz's comment was very tactful and appropriate. And,a s you can see, Pekka has laid this all to rest. :)

[ilya]

Pekka,

Thanks so much for polling.

On Share Photos vs Critique corner, there is in fact a distinction. As we refer to this particular forum as the neighborhood bar, I would say that for a group of folks Share Photos is like a neighbor's iving room where people can come to, hang out, and just share. Its not just the photos, its stories behind the photos - and without getting critique because that's not why they post. They really do just want to share.

I'd include a FAQ, which I'm sure we the members of this forum would be happy to compile.

I'd combine G's and have one for all other Canon compacts. I think the G's are a distinct line of Canon cameras which have lots in common with each other, and quite different from the smaller compacts. Or at the very least I'd label "G-Series and Other compacts" to give G's more prominence.

All that is IMHO... I know what they say about opinions!

Best
Ilya

[UK_Terry]

Mine would be this

Canon compact digital cameras
Canon G Series
Canon EOS digital cameras
Post processing and printing
Share photos
Photo Critique
Talk about photography
Galleries
Marketplace

[sdommin]

pekka wrote:
After these changes we will have much clearer forum structure.

Canon compact digital cameras
Canon EOS digital cameras
Post processing and printing
Share photos
Talk about photography
Galleries
Marketplace
The word is free

Would this sound ok to you?



Its a balancing act - we need to have a structure that can "support itself", yet not have so many posts in one particular forum that individual entries get overwhelmed and lost (by being shuffled onto the next page). This is a real problem on some other photo sites. I would hope that the "Compact Cameras" forum doesn't get too busy (I would split it into "G-Series" and "Other Compacts" ).

The above categories look good, but how about the addition of a "Newbie Questions" forum, where anyone could ask a question, and anyone else could answer? Sometimes new folks are ashamed to ask a question somewhere else, fearing that the "pros" will look down on them.

Personally, I don't know if we really need the "Marketplace" or "Word is Free" forums. Perhaps others could comment about that.

[billhercus]

Re RFMSport's suggestion for a PRO Forum, I hope that will not happen.

Us amateurs rely heavily on your (PRO) expertise and I would hope that you would not all be enticed away by a specialist link.

I know we amatuers sometimes ask daft questions and try your patience but it must do your conscience 'good' to help - does it not?

My other hobby (sailing) involves my 'putting something back for all the enjoyment I get' - maybe a similar principle is worth continuing here without that expertise being diluted in any way.

Bill

[sdommin]

pekka wrote:
I did not do G5 board because there were opinions even between G5 owners that it is ok to talk about it in G3 board as G5 is not so significantly different.

Even though they may not be different, the G5 is Canon's flagship compact digital right now. Wouldn't it be a simple matter just to change the name of the G3 forum to G3/G5 or something like that? I have no knowledge of forum programming, so maybe I'm off-base here.

[elm54]

The voice of reason. ( pekkas ) I think simple is usually the best and Pekka your proposed layout looks to be fine. (IMHO. ) I have almost always found my answers here or a direction to head. Along with alot of valuable info.
I'm sure what ever is done will be an improvement as seen by the evidence already seen.
This sounds like a polishing job but there are plenty of suggestions on what to do and I have not had any problem working with what is here , so I just wanted to add my support.
Thanks
Eric

[defordphoto]

billhercus wrote:
Re RFMSport's suggestion for a PRO Forum, I hope that will not happen.


Then there will be many pros that will NEVER post here. It's not a suggestion as a segregation, but just an area for photography to be discussed on the more serious side of things.

When I want real pro info and feedback I go to Miranda's site and to his Pro forum.

[tony723]

dnhayashida wrote:
UK_Terry wrote:
ilya wrote:
I'd leave this forum as is.

Lump G's into one.

Definitely room for an Editing and Printing forum - I would simply rename the Software forum.

(and Heather, thank you for that post and for putting things into perspective.)


agreed G's into 1 (as with the EOS-D) and a FAQ
leave the rest as it is...very good.

I agree about lumping the Gx forums together. I just looked at them, and the G2 forum goes back a month on the first page. The G1 goes back to August on the first page. Now that there is a G5 out they mostly go into the G3 forum. Putting the G's together would be better. A poster could specify the model if it mattered - "Question about G1" for example.
Darryl Hayashida

Yes, I also agree that G series should merge into one forum similar to Canon EOS.

And other pocket size Canon DC may form another forum e.g. S50, S400, ixus, etc

Perhaps we should have one more forum to talk about lens and accessories not directly related to the camera e.g. storage device, 3rd party lens, battery, tripod, etc

[Kinger]

As a true newbie, to both this forum and photography, I am begging for a well thought out FAQ. I for one would use it till the point where I have it memorized. I have read the EOS-D on a daily basis if not more, ever since I decided to purchase my DR. I have already learned so much, but I think it would be much easier for a newbie, especially one that is not as familiar with all of the terminology, to look information up in a FAQ then use the search and not getting what he/she is looking for.

[defordphoto]

kinger wrote:
As a true newbie, to both this forum and photography, I am begging for a well thought out FAQ.

It's being worked on as we speak...

[Tom W]

RFMSports wrote:
kinger wrote:
As a true newbie, to both this forum and photography, I am begging for a well thought out FAQ.

It's being worked on as we speak...

And that is appreciated by this amateur. I carry but a modest amount of knowledge about the subject, but if there's anything I can do to help the process. let me know.