dissapointed in the pma and Canon

[wlahc1]

I am very dissapointedin the pma show this year. For a few reasons. One. No new lense's so far vey disapointing. I was really hoping for a 25-105 or somthing of that nature in the 2.8 range. But we got nothing. Secondly. And i know this will cause a debate, but still here we go. How can canon come out with a d60 that is 6 megs, when just recentl it cam out with the d1 which is only 4 megs, I mean compared to nikon it seems canon is way behind. Considering that all of camera out that that use nikion technoligy, the the nikon d1h and th d1x and of cousre the way WAY overpriced kodak dcs 720 or 760 i think is the newset version. Once again canon is left behind. The only reason why the d1 for canon is selling to good is because us canon users were starved for a digital slr. I cant belive canon cant do bettor. I kow the d1 is 8fps, but still out side of sports how often do we realy use that kind of speed now come on. Also price structure, now the canon is ontop for the highest priced diital slr, out side of kodak. We need to have better than that. And why is the new 70-200 2.8 is, amost 1000 more than the model its replacing. I know it has new and more elememts but still 1000 more in price, but again they know how long we have been wating for this lense to com out with is we are starving for it so we will pay anything for it. That is the whole problem we keep paying too much for what we want simply cuase the need is there but, its becuase we have waited so long for it. That is not how you run a business in my opion. I mean there are a lot of people who would have bought this lens for 1500 but not 2000. Also pma stuff. Nothing really new from canon that is impressing us that much, ok i know some of you will say, but bob, there is the new d60, but contrary to popular opion its not a total ly new camera, it has over 60% of the d30 in it. Taht is not new technology. now come on people. I hope i am not the only one who feels this way. Canon use to be a great product still is, but in the wake of the economy do we really need to pay for things that are not needed at that price point. For instance canons top flash the 550 ex over 50 dollars more than nikons top flash. I stared shooting many years ago and i went with canon for both the constan new lenes listeing to teh cutomrs and a great value over , overpriced nikon. now every time i look at prices nikon is cheaper. Now i love canon and will contiue to shoot with canon but I am not as happy as i use to be. For those reasons, its not that the quailty has gone down , but it seems that waht drove us to canon in the first place is no loger there. Well I hope to get some feedback on this. And see if i am the only one who thinks this way.

[wlahc1]

please, dosney any one have an opion on what i wrote, i took a while to write this and not one perosn has left a commnet on how they feel, please people comment i want to know how you feel about what i wrote

[sudaplatov]

agree.
you are absolutely right.
nothing to comment :).
wait till next year or year after next year...

[Alessandra Brun]

Dear "wlahc1"

*A few points:

1. Please try to type more clearly. It is very difficult for me to read your posts. I am Italian, so my english is not very good. Thank you. Using your name or nickname would be polite too. "wlahc1" is so very impersonal.

2. Canon is in the business of selling cameras & lenses, and showing a profit to their stock owners. Canon is not in the charity business of giving away 24-105mm2.8L lenses *if that one ever appears.... for free. (I do not work for them by the way)

You want a lot of stuff, yet you are not wiling to pay for it. Weird.

3. How can you be dissapointed with the D60...have you shot & printed images with it yet?

4. Photography is not Hot Rod racing, where the one with the most horsepower has the bragging rights. You desperately want Canon to come out with a 7.x million SLR at a price of, say us$1,000 so you can brag to your Nikon buddies that your camera is "the best". Don't be so childish....let your images do the talking.

regards.
Alessandra.

[KHogan]

Hi,

Have to say, I concur with most of Alessandra's points here. The voracious demand for newer, hotter, faster, better digital technologies is having a definite impact on the speed with which it's all advancing and I won't complain about this. But at the same time, there is also plenty out there to keep us busy in my opinion. While I haven't followed this year's PMA that closely, from what I've seen of the releases, there are a variety of choices. This I see as a good thing.

When I purchased my D30, there were two cameras in that space to choose from, the D30 and the Fuji S1. After PMA, there will be, what is it, 5 prosumer (or whatever you want to call them) digital SLRs to choose from? This is fantastic. To boot, there are great lenses being introduced by Sigma with a Canon mount which are well worth considering if you don't want to pay Canon's prices for their lenses.

It used to be, before digital, that one would go out and purchase a camera and use it for years, despite whatever quirks and compromises it might've had. Most of us still own and use these same non-digital SLRs that we've been using for years.

We have to bear in mind that digital technology is still in its infancy comparatively speaking, but the rate at which it is evolving is still faster than most (dare I say) people can keep up with, both practically and financially. I propose that perhaps if there wasn't such demand for always a newer faster technology, that Canon and others might wait a bit longer and spend more time developing and ultimately releasing a more obvious "upgrade", so to speak.

One always has the choice to buy or not to buy. We can dictate to a certain extent the direction of the changes and evolution based on consumer need, but as Alessandra says, Canon and others remain in business to make money. One may not like how they approached this current batch of releases and upgrades but from a business and marketing perspective, it's not necessarily a poor strategy.

Maybe Nikon's new D100 will be better than the D30/D60. But the D30 has been out almost 2 years now without a comparable offering (at the same price point) from Nikon, Kodak, and others. So how does this put Canon behind?

Anyway, just another 2 cents since you asked for feedback. I'm happy with my D30 purchase. There are things that could be better with the camera but not all of us can afford to fork out the dough to upgrade everytime a new and improved version comes along. Bottom line, personally I followed the PMA from the sidelines out of interest. I had no grand expectations and am just happy to see things continue to move forward. Now, back to processing some images I shot earlier today.

Regards,
Kharim

[wlahc1]

Alessandra. and everyone else who agress with this person. She could not have been more wrong about what i said. First off i do have a canon d30 and i love it. Also I have shot canon all my life. So sayin i hang out with my nikon buddies really shows who is being childish here. The point i was trying to get across was this. After talking to many of you, most of you had told me what you were hoping for from the pma and we did not get it. And where allessandra got that i want a 7.x million pix slr is out ragous. Please get your facts strait before you assume anything, it really makes you look uneducated and frankly rude. I was simply saying along with others I had hoped for more from canon that is all. I think some read into this way WAY to far. I have shot canon and always will. But i dont belive there is anything wrong at all with wanting the best and then trying to get it. And hello would you buy a car for any price at all when the compition has somthign that is comperable at a cheaper price ? I would hope not. That was my other point. Whats wrong with healty compatition between nikon and canon. Nothing! Why should we feel bad for wanting somthing at a cheaper price. And lastly mayne cause your italian and not an american, you dont understand the concept of free speech and and the free discussion of topics. That is what the USA is all about. That is all i have to say, i dont mean to offend anybody but i think a few of you took this way to perosonal that is all.
I hope you all understand
Bobby

[Anthony8858]

Please relax. Have a drink ...or something. Technology has come a long way the last few years.

Enjoy the ride.

[oops]

Anthony8858 wrote:
Please relax. Have a drink ...or something. Technology has come a long way the last few years.

Enjoy the ride.

Had one. Thanks, much better!8)

wlahc1, I don't disagree with your feelings about Canon. When you financially pair up with a company to such an extent that there is no possible turning back because of your overwhelming investment in their system, it does your heart good to see them continue to stomp the competition. When they don't, it tends to make you nervous even though you might not be looking for an upgrade just yet. You just want confirmation that you joined a winner from the start (Canon) and wish they would win every battle or at least make a valiant effort to do so. Right?

I have frankly been amazed at their string of recent (2 year) successes with the G1, Pro 90, G2, and D30 to name a few! And the CMOS sensor? Brilliant. If the D60 can be seen as "idling down" to the competition, then the competition had better keep an eye over their shoulder. Canon has proved over and over that they can and will set a bench mark that will set the industry standard.

I am also kind of relieved that they have not waved yet one more cookie under my nose that I can't live without. I need to not only pay for the D30 but learn to get it up to speed, as well. I have seen 200mph performance on this forum but have only managed 30mph or so myself. I have a long way to go before I look for a faster model. Heck, I havn't even made it out of the driveway yet!:D

[echoy97]

D30, 1D then D60...I think Canon is trying NOT to make a pefect digital SLR so that people will keep buying new stuff from them.

[mrbobco]

ok...

i can't resist this one...

but i disagree, too with wlahc1/bobby...

i read your response, bobby...i DO feel your pain...believe me...i want the best too...but fortunately (and unfortunately)...the D-60 is the best canon is going to give us for now...as anthony mentioned...relax and enjoy the ride : )

the KEY here...is to LEARN to use the toys you HAVE...if you are a professional photographer than you need only change brands or purchase/lease the equipment you want...but i suspect that lot of us here are not professionals. sure, as an enthusiast, i would LOVE to get a nice, well constructed, super fast focusing camera from canon...but then i don't have a major issue with the d-30 already...YES i do miss some shots using ai servo (so i hardly use it...that's a no brainer) YES i would LOVE to see an IR af system like the "real" cameras (but that is why i own an ST-E2) so i suppose there is a way around everything (although i DO agree that we shouldn't have to deal with it...but it's not the end of the world)

we all knew when we started buying the canon brand, that the accessories were INCREDIBLE but NOT cheap. i am one of those who choose to not whine about "canon should do x, y or z"

let's face it.

they ARE a major company...and clearly they are really not all that concerned about what we think...we get whatever it is we get from them...and our approval/disapproval is measured by canon...in plain old dollars and cents.

as soon as they are easily available...i am going to purchase a D-60...NOT because i am unhappy with my D-30 (i LOVE the thing) BUT because i do not want to entirely lose my investment in the D-30 (and i can't agree with anybody feeling like they are "trapped" by their canon lens/accessories investment...i can't be the only person who uses ebay as a method to cash out and upgrade) i suspect that early this summer, i'll be selling my D-30 and some accessories, recovering a minimum of $1500 (of my original D-30 investment of $2300 six months ago) and upgrading. it's THAT simple. i don't see what the big deal really is...it was WORTH every last penny to discover...and learn...

i have a feeling that there are some people who are just SO concerned about "is my camera lens sharp, is my sensor clean...blah blah blah" that they spend MOST of their time futzing around with charts and test patterns, sending their camera back for fine tuning and cleanings, etc...and NEVER actually learning...composition...and the art of photography...just because they are SO worried that if their camera isn't sharp...they'll miss a moment. i've got news...if you never take a picture...you won't miss anything...you'll miss EVERYTHING. does anybody think that that pekka took all of these wonderful pictures without experimenting? NO. that is the simple beauty of digital cameras...you can take as many shots as you like...get instant feedback and/or gratification...and learn immediately...NOT to mention...no film costs, no developing costs...and being in total control of what you shoot and how it gets developed into a picture...

i understand...that for some...all of this tinkering and wondering which lens/camera is the sharpest...IS their hobby...i'm NOT criticizing...if it brings you joy that i'm not going to rain on your parade...

BUT to whine about having a new model and what it DOESN'T give us...well i can't join on that one. let alone that i haven't seen a single post from someone who has had hands on (i mean REAL hands on by an average bloke like the rest of us) to me...canon gave me what i wanted...more pixels (so i could crop a little and not lose quality) whatever the next camera from canon holds...i'll be waiting and watching like everybody else...but i'm going to take that plunge and get the D-60...i'm sure i'm not alone...

so...before we all go off the deep end...let a few of us get this new toy in our hands...i can hardly wait to experience the next step in this ever continuing evolution!

bob

[Anthony8858]

I have to admit:

Writing is NOT my strong point.

You took the words right out of my mouth

[fastlane65]

Even though the economy is down I can still afford two cents worth.

Yes, I'm disappointed there were no new lenses or film SLRs, but I'm not really disappointed about the D60.

I've been shooting Canon since my AE1 in '82. I've been through the AE1, a A1, a F1, a T90 (traded the F1 for it after lugging the F1 with power winder and flash thru Carlsbad cavern!) I finally went EOS about six years ago when the A2E came out. The only camera to tempt me away from it has been the 1RS (or maybe an EOS 3). I have been planning to add a digital SLR for a while, and the D30 was my only choice.

Now it has been upgraded to the D60. This is not a new camera. This is an upgrade. 3 megapixel - D30, 6 megapixel, D60. Canon wasn't trying to shock the camera world, just keep users happy until they can develop and refine a new camera. As always they have a Pro camera and a not-so-pro camera with the 1D and the D30/60.

It would be nice if Canon sent out a newsletter every month to keep us updated on the new digital cameras in development. I would know exactly how long I would have to use the D60 before I could get the next generation. But of course, so would Nikon, Minolta, Pentax, etc.... I am sure Canon has a little loyalty to their consumers, but they have more loyalty and responsibility to their shareholders. I personally believe the D60 is a compromise for both.

I am very happy. Now that I am ready to get a digital I have the choice of a brand new 6 megapixel SLR, or a deeply discounted 3 megapixel that is almost as good.
Whichever I buy will probably be outdated in two years. This is a given with any digital technology.

Now the other choice - should I trade my tried and true A2E for a 3 ???????????


Off the subject - - whatever happened to good grammar? Have a little respect for you colleagues and re-read your posts before hitting the send button. I don't pretend to be an English teacher, but I prefer to read messages that are clear and concise, with correct spelling and some punctuation. Helps avoid misunderstandings and missed meanings, especially on a multilingual board like this one.

[Blumun]

Allessandra wrote IMHO that is the point considering digital tecnology is still in it s childhood but it s growing faster then any other at time. Technological research means to invest a lot of money , human resources and time: we sponsor part of these "Canon expenses" buying cameras and lenses.
I am an Italian, first time poster, pro photographer, CPS member and I am disappointed too with canon digital camaras: I own a D30, nice images but it is not a camara built for pros, I am in a waiting list from 12/01 for a D1. D60 no firmware upgradeble, no focusing screen changeble , slow AF camara is not for me.
I have spent 3000 US $ plus microdivers, extra batteries, vertical grip etc for my D30 some time ago but with few assignments I have had back my money, so I am waiting for a Very HIGH priced 6 mp CMOS, 45 AF eye controlled fast AF, 1x Mult Fact. for my needs: 7K or 8K US$ should not be a problem for who makes money with it!
To other no Pros guys, advanced amateurs I suggest to buy
mid priced, eventually used, canon cameras and very good L lenses, you will use a 70/200 2.8L with a D30, or a D60 or a D1 a D120 and so on.
By now , besides my Blad and Contax 645, I am still using for important assignments a 1V with L lenses, sometimes catch the action means make more money.
in 2 years my D30 made me loose a lot af good shots=a lot of good bucks, probably more dollars then the retail value of a 1v based digital body!

Thanks
blumun

[D30Photo]

Why a $1000 more for the IS version on the 70-200f2.8?
I bought it ($1750), and I'm have no complaint about the price as I am very happy with it. I haven't heard too many complaints others who actually bought it either.

If you already have the D30, it's better to spend money upgrading your lens. Spending money on good lens is a better long term investment than on bodies.

[echelon]

wlach1,


This is the most immature diatribe I have ever read, not to mention the fact that your spelling is deplorable. What are you whining about? Just three years ago, the only choice you had for a camera that was even close to this quality was a $24,000 Kodak 560.
And I don't even think that camera had an lcd to view your image on. If the images for the D60 are like the ones I have seen posted...it has incredible resolution. Combine that with the fact that its selling price will be lower than the cost of the D30 which it replaces...it is a bargain! Nikon has nothing close to this yet and the new D100 is not even ready for sample images.

Canon will indeed have a high resolution pro body on the market in the very near future..but the price will be up in the 6-7000 range. Start saving your
sheckles.